Reading Room: What can Dunn do about boos?
by Jim Margalus on Nov 14, 2011 6:01 AM CST
in White Sox News
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The latest Freakonomics Radio podcast takes a look at the various philosophies of booing. Many White Sox fans had their own when it came to Adam Dunn and Alex Rios.
Toward the end, Stephen Dubner talks to Johnnie LeMaster, the former San Francisco Giants infielder who might be the worst regular balllplayer in Major League history. He was a first-round draft pick in 1973 and didn't come close to the billing. Also, according to the podcast, the Kentucky native got on the fans' bad side by saying something about homosexuality (he didn't specify) that clashed with the more commonly held viewpoints in San Francisco.
So the fans went at him for weeks. LeMaster tried shrugging it off, until his wife gave him the idea to combat the boos in a pretty creative way:
"The next day I went in and talked to our equipment manager. I said, 'Make me a jersey up with my number on it, and instead of my name, LeMaster, put 'Boo' on the back of it. And it hung in my locker for a couple of weeks, and then I finally got enough nerve to put it on and wear it in a game. But I only got to wear it for the top half of the first inning.
"After the game, there was a letter laying on my chair in front of my locker. My general manager had fined me $500 for being out of uniform. But here's the whole thing about it -- the fans loved it, the media loved it, it got the fans off my back, and it got the media off my back.
Would this work for Adam Dunn? Everybody liked it when he saluted the crowd after a single. But just like that hat-tipped, it would probably only change the conversation for a day.
Christian Marrero Reading Room
Good news for Robin Ventura and the White Sox -- they have somebody to share the "oddball managerial choice" spotlight with. The St. Louis Cardinals replaced Tony La Russa (5,097 games managed) with Mike Matheny (zero games managed -- anywhere). Like Ventura, Matheny is one of those guys that was always pegged as a clubhouse leader and possible eventual manager, and like Ventura, nobody thought it would happen so suddenly.
With the Matheny hiring, Joe McEwing will remain the new White Sox third-base coach. Grindy.
Weird headline, because the article asks how Ventura plans to go about gaining credibility in a hurry. He and The Puppetmaster!!! Buddy Bell answer it to the best of their abilities.
So what went on at the organizational meetings last week? James has the transcript.
Ken Rosenthal says the prodigal, big-jawed son could be high on Texas' list if they're not able to re-sign C.J. Wilson.
Mark Gonzales see three paths Kenny Williams can follow this offseason, and the first one includes getting back "a bona fide leadoff man" in a trade. Although he didn't suggest that Juan Pierre was one, so I'm willing to accept this more than the other assessments.
More from Rosenthal, who says the new collective bargaining agreement is on track to be finalized this week.
The GM meetings begin Tuesday, so here's Kenny Williams being as Kenny Williams as possible:
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I always like Matheney's music.
He’ll do fine.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
by Chiburb on Nov 14, 2011 6:35 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I don't care what Howard Stern says
I liked working for Mike Matheney. Hopefully he won’t make Albert Pujols say WNNNNNNNBC!
What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!
As some one who doesn't listen to Stern
What did he say about Matheny?
Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969
fully-loaded drink hats for the fans at the start of each home game financed by AD's hefty contract might dampen the boos
along with free re-fills
White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.
Dunn is my boo
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
by Rhubarb on Nov 14, 2011 9:09 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
pretty funny thing KW says at the end of the interview.
“things..out of my control.”
by obnoxious american on Nov 14, 2011 9:19 AM CST reply actions
Wilson Ramos was rescued after a gunfight.
I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE
Never thought I'd get here
Sign Danks this off season or move him.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
I've been digging the Freakonomics Podcast
The also had a baseball reference in “The Upside of Quitting” dealing with career minor-leaguers who should pull the plug on ever making it to the show.
"His Load got Sloppy" Colintj
by DrEmilioLizardo on Nov 14, 2011 10:33 AM CST reply actions
matt kemp
per Buster Olney on twitter on verge of signing 8 year 160 million contract.
No thanks on that one.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Probably a better bet to live up to his contract that AP will be
but yeah I’d like to see him do it again.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Austin Powers?
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2011 12:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
arnold palmer.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Nov 14, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
or adrian peterson. either one.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Nov 14, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
Adam Podlesh.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 14, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Dave Cameron continues to belittle John Danks.
The sun rose in the east this morning, by the way.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/john-danks-the-left-handed-edwin-jackson/
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
i think belittling is a little too strong of a word.
Given the circumstances i’d probably just rather sign jackson too.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
One is cheaper, left-handed, and younger.
And if you can’t sign Danks to a long-term deal, he leaves the next year and (unless the CBA abolishes it) you get draft picks out of it.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
yeah its nice to get a young lefty.
but are you going to meet the white sox asking price without having him locked up? And if you lock him up he is going to cost more than jackson will. i’m not sure he’s all that much better than jackson is.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
that being said there are going to be more than one team looking at both jackson and danks.
so jackson will get paid, the sox will find a good deal (eh probably not) and the whole argument will be tossed aside.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
"i’m not sure he’s all that much better than jackson is"
He is.
Jackson career bWAR 10.7 1079 innings
Danks career bWAR 19.3 917 innings
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Still bitter about the outcome of the bet?
He hurt you bad, didn’t he?
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2011 12:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
in "all that much better"
I meant going to eventually pay more money plus pay the white sox in prospects. i agree that danks is better, but when you have to pay more cash and prospects it kind of evens out.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
its okay to admit when you are wrong
it is the first step towards respect
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
What's the point?
the WS avoid drafting first rounders like the plague, it appears.
by Shoeless In SC on Nov 14, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
kenny prefers to wait anywhere between five and fifteen years for the sheen to wear off before he acquires them.
by craigws on Nov 14, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I lol'd
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Nov 14, 2011 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
“But honey, this is an original Mark Teahen. He was a top prospect! And this is a bargain! We’d be crazy not to get him.
He doesn’t look like much now, but I’ll bring him back to Chicago, move him to third base, and before you know it, he’ll be as good as new.
Honey, come on! Look, if you’ll agree to this, I promise I’ll get Wilson Betemit off those blocks on the front lawn. What? Linebrink? Let’s talk about that later."
winces, holds phone away from ear
puts phone away. sighs
“Dayton, you got yourself a deal. I’ll pull my truck around and help you unload Chris and Josh.”
a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee
Also, Jackson can't field his position for shit.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
we're not supposed to actually watch that video, are we?
i need kw to do something i like before i’m listening to him speak again.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Jonnie DeZaster
I followed the Giants when LeMaster and Rennie Stennett were the keystone combo in Candlestick Park. Aside from bad hands and an anemic bat, he looked like he had scurvy. Maybe the most frail looking major leaguer this side of Ray Oyler.
Nothing like an April game at old Candlestick with guys like LeMaster in the lineup to really test your love for baseball. I’d rather watch Dunn strike out four times a game…which I’ll have an opportunity to do in less than five months!
by asinwreck on Nov 14, 2011 12:40 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I remember DeZaster.
Rec’d for Ray Oyler. Sure as hell was frail – died 30 years ago at age 43. Puss. And his middle name was Francis. Guess he was the inspiration for “Lighten up, Francis”. Yet he was also a Marine! What a conundrum he was.
http://bill37mccurdy.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/ray-oyler-the-bat-that-blew-too-much/
Makes me nostalgic for when baseball games REALLY sucked.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
If you want a chuckle, read Wiki's bio for Oyler, especially the Seattle fans' reaction to getting him
in the ’69 expansion draft after hitting a robust .135 in 1968. Yeah, in 111 games. .135. The Seattle fans who started his fan club had to presage Lookout Landing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Oyler
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Bleeeeeeegh. Adios, NBA.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 14, 2011 1:15 PM CST reply actions
Good riddance.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
just because your best player desperately wants out and the rest of your roster is atrocious, don't take it out on the league.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Dwight just had his charity game yesterday.
Gil Arenas looked stellar. So kiss my ass.
;)
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
Hellickson and Kimbrel your 2011 ROYs
http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/33312325
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
DeAza gets robbed.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
i would have voted for Morel. that was a hell of a september.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Dunn needs to perform. Period.
It’s all on him, not the fans.
If Dunn is done, and Sox management relentlessly inserts him into the 3-4-5 slot in the lineup while another season goes down the tubes, then he and the Sox will get what they deserve. At that point the fans, by booing, will be doing what is best for the team, which is making life miserable for Dunn so that he walks away from the rest of his contract, like he talked about doing last season (when he said he’d quit if the game was no longer “fun”). That would free up money and a lineup slot to go get a DH who can hit.
It’s both awful and sad that it has come to this point, but I think it has. Dunn needs to start fast out of the gate in 2012, or Ventura needs to sit him, or Kenny needs to twist Dunn’s arm to go to Charlotte to see if he can get back to normal. If none of these things happen, then Dunn, Ventura and Kenny will get what they deserve.
Baseball is life.
you do realize that
Ozzie Guillen is no longer the manager, no?
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I did say "Ventura needs to sit him", not Ozzie...
Hopefully RV will disrespect a few veterans, if the situation warrants…
Baseball is life.
There is no reason to think Ventura will treat Dunn te same as Guillen did
The directive was not coming from the front office either. Even if Dunn did go to Charlotte (which there is no fucking way he would) how is hitting against worse pitching going to help him at the major league level? If Dunn fails again in 2012 the next logical step is some sort of mutual agreement for buying out his contract/retiring.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Brandon Inge went to Toledo during the 2011 season
To fix his swing and regain his confidence.
I know that Inge and Dunn can reject a AAA stint, but why not try, for the good of the team? If Dunn shows up out of shape in spring training and doesn’t hit well in Arizona, tell him he needs to go to Charlotte until his OPS is .800. If he refuses, sit him on the bench as the 25th man and bat him once a week in mop up situations.
At that point it’s a waiting game to see if Dunn quits (and walks away from the rest of his contract) or he’s fired/released (in which case the Sox keep the money). Or you negotiate a settlement – say $10M to walk away now from the remainder of the contract.
Baseball is life.
Brandon Inge is not Adam Dunn.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
You're right...
Inge hit .197 (versus .159 for Dunn) and can hold down a corner infield position…
Baseball is life.
Good to use AVG as your metric,
and a single season’s AVG at that. Please discuss the concept of SSS.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
OK, I admit, Dunn has Inge beat on 2011 regular season OPS...
…by a margin of .569 to .548
Inge did have a .923 OPS in the playoffs, after he got back from Toledo…
Baseball is life.
You are using ***one*** case where this kind of garbage actually maybe worked out
and the player you are talking about does not have the HoF track record Dunn had. Inge has always fucking sucked, Dunn has just started sucking. You arguing that if Inge then Dunn…maxes out on the tedious scale.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
OK, OK...
So if Dunn sucks again in 2012 you prefer to write him a big check to buy him out. But what if he wants all of the ~$42M that is left on his contract?
Baseball is life.
You have to pay the man, it is a contract afterall
and he will be one of the biggest sports villains in all of Chicago history. Each and everyday he goes to the ballpark he will be at risk. The hatred and disdain for him may end up rivaling the blacksox.
Since we are throwing out hypotheticals, will you eat your hat if Dunn returns to form?
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
you know, he "got back from toledo"
in mid-august. playoffs begin in october.
also, he continued to suck after he came back. until detroit played the white sox. against whom he went 5 for 9. then he went back to sucking. until detroit played the white sox again. against whom he went 3-6.
you’ll like this since you’re a batting average guy. after he came back from toledo, he had 15 hits. i gave it away above that 8 of them came against the white sox in three games.
it’s pretty fucking tenuous to say that his success against the white sox had anything to do with playing in toledo three weeks prior. even more tenuous to suggest that his success in the playoffs two months later had anything to do with it.
by larry on Nov 14, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm still learning OPS
How does .548 stack up to league average for DHs?
And what is the all-time greatest improvement in OPS from one season to the next, 400 ABs minimum?
Baseball is life.
I'm pretty sure everyone knows that might be the case
The only thing anyone is arguing with you about is the suggestion that Dunn should or would goto AAA.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I hope everyone knows I'm alive.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
And that I exist.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
i've got a question.
what’s going to be the all-time dead horse topic this offseason?
davey johnson in 73 was a large improvement. jose bautista in 2010 was, too.
OPS isn’t very good, either. and quit using at-bats. plate appearances. why the fuck do you think discarding walks, HBP, sacrifices, etc. is a good idea.
Will be meeting Davey 12/8.
Will mention the bounce-back. I’m sure he’ll appreciate it.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
Per B-R, Inge's most similar player through his current age is Damon Easley
Dunn’s is Reggie Jackson.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
If Dunn is fired/released
how is it that the Sox keep the money?
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
My bad - I got it backwards
Sox keep the money if Dunn quits, retires, or otherwise doesn’t fulfill the contract.
Baseball is life.
i'm sure that would greatly enamour the white sox to other free agents.
if dunn sucks, the sympathy is with the white sox and the pressure would be on him to quit. if the white sox do that to him, then the sympathy, and, more importantly, the union would be with him.
I did say "Ventura needs to sit him", not Ozzie...
Hopefully RV will disrespect a few veterans, if the situation warrants…
Baseball is life.
One thing Dunn could do to quell the boo-birds
is FUCKING HIT.
I think that might help.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
Your theories are quite revolutionary.
What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!
by 67WMAQ on Nov 14, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Got to ignore all the white noise.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
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