Mixed bag of news on first day of GM meetings
The Pfister Hotel in Milwaukee, the site of this week's general manager meetings, is allegedly haunted. Which is just as well, because Kenny Williams doesn't have much of an idea of where he's going yet. Maybe some supernatural forces will push him in the right direction.
Williams arrived on the scene and gave a rundown of what he knew and what he was thinking. Some of the news is welcome, and other parts are not so much. Let's break it down in terms we're all familiar with:
The Cubs have contacted Mark Buehrle's agent multiple times -- That's bad.
For reasons that should be obvious. It makes sense for a few reasons on both sides, since the Cubs need pitching and Buehrle wouldn't have to move.
On the other hand, Buehrle has made his hatred of Wrigley Field quite clear, and he's not a guy who pretends he never said the things he said. So here's hoping this is merely one-way communication that Jeff Berry has made public in order to increase the pool of suitors, and nothing more.
Williams remained mum on Buehrle. Bah.
Williams is fine with Alejandro De Aza as his leadoff hitter -- That's good!
U-God already passed this along as a FanShot, but it's worth repeating. Williams told the media, "If I was making the lineup out [De Aza] would be my leadoff hitter," which is correct. As I wrote earlier, De Aza is the best pound-for-pound value for a team that needs to cut costs. If the Sox stumbled into a legitimate option with a longer track record, that's fine, but Williams can't really afford to make it a priority.
(Journalism gripe aside: In Doug Padilla's account, he wrote, "Finding a leadoff hitter who can play left field figured to be one of Williams’ desires on the trade market." The passive voice is disingenuous here -- figuring isn't something that happened to it, because it wasn't unanimous. Who figured that and why?)
Adam Dunn still doesn't have any answers -- That's bad.
Smart move by Williams to clarify that Dunn did work out in the offseason, because that criticism severely diminishes the signal-to-noise ratio. He also said that Dunn's amount of offseason BP is "expected to change," and it better for Dunn's sake.
Still, Dunn was so bad for so long -- he season triple-slash line (.159/.292/.277) was uncannily close to his April one (.160/.300/.267) -- that a temporary and ultimately harmless condition (bad back or eyes) was his best way out.
Part of me thinks the best-case scenario is a dead cat bounce. And dead-cat-bouncing back from the one of the worst seasons ever still isn't going to be nearly enough to fulfill DH duties. Yech.
Chris Sale will move to the rotation -- That's good!
There's no guaranteeing Sale can hack it as a starter, and his frail frame attracts injury concerns, but the Sox owe it to themselves and Sale to see if he can throw 150-170 innings at the back of the rotation. John Danks and Jake Peavy are free agents after 2012, and Gavin Floyd the year after, so it's important to know whether Sale is a genuine option before they have to depend on him to carry an unprecedented workload.
The only way this is bad is if you think failure as a starter will mess up his long-term relief prospects. That's possible, I suppose, but making decisions based off that outcome is like being afraid of the sun.
Eduardo Escobar is already getting mentioned as an option at second -- That's bad.
At this point in his career, Gordon Beckham was supposed to start making good on those Michael Young comparisons -- at least the popular interpretation of Young's production, not the sabermetric version. At the very least, he was supposed to be a plug-and-play guy, a Tadahito Iguchi type who would allow a GM to focus his attention elsewhere.
I'll tell you what he wasn't supposed to be -- a guy who needs to be pushed by a light-hitting infielder with a .657 OPS at Triple-A. No offense to Escobar, but if he's a legitimate option for anything more than once-a-week duty, the Sox are in bad shape.
There's competition elsewhere, too -- That's good!
Williams said that Paul Konerko is guaranteed to have a starting job in 2012, and so are two other guys -- presumably Alexei Ramirez and A.J. Pierzynski. Other positions probably aren't up for grabs, exactly, but Williams apparently wants to impress upon his team that nobody else can expect to flop and get away with it at Camelback Ranch.
Robin Ventura is the wild card in all of this. If Williams consistently maintains this stance, it probably helps Ventura gain full faith and credit to bench an expensive veteran. However, since Ozzie Guillen didn't have the desire, balls or mere interest to try benching Dunn or Alex Rios when it was warranted, we have no idea how they're going to react, and whether it will affect other players. Considering that's one of the toughest calls a manager has to make, it somewhat sucks that Ventura might have that decision staring him in the face immediately.
Williams isn't afraid of the "rebuilding" word -- That's ... both.
There are some reasons to believe the White Sox could contend for the AL Central title, but it involves a lot of finger-crossing and prayer. More realistically, if the players who failed in 2011 can't revive their careers in 2012, the Sox are suddenly have little in the way of present or future production.
Williams seems to realize this, which is good to know. The problem is that he hasn't shown himself capable of trading proven for unproven in recent seasons, and his team doesn't invest in the draft, either. A team kinda needs to do both in order to pull off a rebuilding process in relatively short order. Admitting it is the first step, but is he capable of going any further? I have my doubts.
Mark Kotsay is still mentioned for some reason.
Can I go now?
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Venchie
Considering that’s one of the toughest calls a manager has to make, it somewhat sucks that Ventura might have that decision staring him in the face immediately.
The incessant rubbing of fingers making the money sign by Toe Boat will enrage Venchie so that sending him to the benchie will be easy.
White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.
Jim, I have an awesome idea for you :)
I think for sh!ts and gr!ns you should have your own GM meetings with the other teams bloggers on SB Nation. Email some of the bloggers and ask what they’d give you for Danks, Floyd, Quentin, etc.. In turn you could offer a package for players you want from their team.
by striker on Nov 16, 2011 7:40 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
I like this idea...
add some of the relievers to this list too. Heck just out of curiosity (if they did somehow decide to start a full rebuild) put Ramirez, Konerko and AJ on there too.
Not a bad idea
But between this and the book, I don’t have a whole lot of time to drum up ideas that are probably not going to happen. If somebody wants to pick up this ball and run with it, by all means.
(And I’m already using my improbable-idea time to flesh out my potential hit crime drama “Night Bear,” the loose-cannon bear detective. Suffice it to say, he gets kicked off the force a lot.)
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 16, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Mostly because the local donut shops cannot count on him for protection anymore, I'm sure.
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
He mauls too many key witnesses and suspects.
Donut shops? C’mon. This is gritty, no-nonsense drama we’re talking about.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 16, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
he was bound to lash out after watching his partner get gunned down in the line of duty.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Pilot Sneak Preview:
Night Bear: “The Polar Bears are dealing snow on every street corner and you continue to look the other way. Quite frankly Chief, I can’t bear it any longer.”
Police Chief: “Are you threatening to go vigilante on me? I assure you, if I even here a whisper that you are up to something, you’re off the force. You hear me? You may as well turn in your badge and claws right now if that’s what you’re thinking.”
(Night Bear throws badge on table and storms out)
Little Bighorn. Classic small sample size. -Skancho Danza
by keystone connection on Nov 16, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Night Bear doesn't talk.
He’s a real bear. Mildly trained. There’s only a light script. Actors are expected to respond to the bear’s actions, whatever they are, as if he’s doing real police work.
He spends a lot of time foraging for berries clues, is what I’m saying.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 16, 2011 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
that wasn't dialogue keystone put down there,
that was acting prompts. night bear could say all that with his eyes.
by craigws on Nov 16, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I have a producer friend with whom I can put you in contact.
I know he’s interested in this sort of animal crime drama. Just don’t mention my name too much. Kinda burned some bridges when a pitch for a show about a wolf who is a private detective went bad. And if he asks, would you tell him I’m sorry? When I said it was “obvious and frankly a little vile” I thought he was suggesting a name for the show, not introducing me to that Law & Order producer.
by mechanical turk on Nov 16, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
I stayed at the Pfister when I went to a Brewers/Cubs game.
Kinda creepy place, but Milwaukee was fun.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 16, 2011 7:52 AM CST reply actions
This is too easy.
Was colin in an adjoining room>
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
by winningugly on Nov 16, 2011 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so why the hell haven't we gotten your "man on the street" reporting yet?
I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.
by thatshortkid on Nov 16, 2011 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I doubt Buehrle would sign with the Cubs but
I am curious to see what everyone would think of him if he did. Will it tarnish his White Sox legacy? I don’t think it will for me. It would be really hard to deal with but atleast we could see him pitch. Is this like Favre going to the Vikings? (taking away Favre’s megalomaniac obnoxiousness)
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I'm the only one, but I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Buehrle has carte blanche in my book.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 16, 2011 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
Pretty much where I'm at
The only thing I hold against guys is sucking.
When it comes to free agency, I don’t fault guys for wanting to get paid or other considerations that go with switching teams.
I don't see myself ever being mad at Buehrle.
If he goes elsewhere, my anger will be directed at the White Sox.
"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."
by RWShow on Nov 16, 2011 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
thisx2
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Nov 17, 2011 5:58 AM CST up reply actions
Sox to Cubs
Didn’t diminish my feelings for Kevin Tapani.
by Chris Pummer on Nov 16, 2011 9:13 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I will always view him as twain scum
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Just saying.
Didn’t diminish my feelings. Not that I held him in particularly high regard.
by Chris Pummer on Nov 16, 2011 9:24 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Favre went to the Vikings specifically to stick his thumb in the eye of GB's brass (fans being the collateral damage)
Buehrle’s got no interest in that. It would be way different.
Dave Martinez woulda had that.
As a GB fan
I agree with this. I’m with Mark going where he wants to go. If he goes to the Cubs the only thing that would upset me is if he was a key to a Cubs championship. But that’s not likely, so I’m not worried about it.
"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473
by NorthSidePaulie on Nov 17, 2011 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
well it would make me think less of him
because he would automatically turn to shit. other than that? eh whatever.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
I'd root for him to win his starts,
rather than my normal Cubs indifference or schadenfreude.
I’ve been hearing for years that he bleeds Cardinals, um, red. So I don’t think the Cubs will get a hometown discount, and I’d be surprised if the Cubs outbid everyone if Mark is truly willing to anywhere.
Most of my ire will be directed at the money spent on Dunn/Rios/Jakemeister, which made it impossible to sign Buehrle.
Why buy the cow when the milk is kinda bitchy?
by SkanchoDanza on Nov 16, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
i am certainly growing weary of kenny
and though i am unhappy with the current situation i am willing to admit that it wouldn’t be so fair of me to rip him for those moves. at the time of the deals i was happy that the sox acquired both rios and dunn. peavy i wasn’t certain of but my thinking was that it was a bold move that offered possibly excellent production. (and it’s not my money) of course i am remorseful now.
how did you feel about those moves when they occurred?
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
I was happy about the Dunn deal, when it happened. I had no strong opinion about the others.
But, I always assume that Kenny knows more than I know. I’m not arrogant enough to think that my opinions are more informed than Kenny’s actions. And Kenny exudes the arrogance to match. I admit that my opinions aren’t worth anything. In the end, everything is “wait and see.”
Results are where I make my judgment. The Dunn deal sucks. Monumental suck. Kenny shouldn’t have made the deal.
Why buy the cow when the milk is kinda bitchy?
by SkanchoDanza on Nov 16, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
i didn't mind any of those 3 acquisitions.
they’ve all pretty much turned out worse-case scenario, but hindsight, etc.
i liked the thinking on all of them.
it’s so many of the other moves that have made me wish he was gone.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Just cuious...
If those three moves didn’t rub you the wrong way, which ones did?
swisher trade to NY tops my list of bad KW
even if you were going to trade him there was no reason to do it 2 minutes after the world series for a package that even at the time looked horrid.
i was never keen on adam dunn… but i was excited when we signed him. Nice to strike in free agency like that. plus i figured he’d at least be good for 30 dingers worse case. Oops. I liked picking up rios. the peavy deal was a little weird but i was more upset with the way they handled him in 2009 than the actual trade to bring him in.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
The Swisher 2 deal was shameful.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Oh God I almost for got about the Swisher trade.
Both of them in fact. Obviously the 2nd one was awful, but I was pretty against the first one too. Gio had me captivated.
If I liked the idea, then it would be hypocritical to bash a move in hindsight for not working out.
That’s what many people do. Happy we got Peavy. Happy we got Dunn. Pissed at KW when they haven’t worked out.
Now Swisher part 2, Jackson for Hudson, Teahen extension, Linebrink, Frasor, etc. These are deals that can be questioned before anyone has to take the field in a new uniform. All have high failure possibilities with unlikely success rates. So I’m critical of KW when I can second guess his moves before the ink dries. And that’s all too often lately.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Nov 17, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
No snark intended.
That is exactly what I was asking.
totally agree
except after Peavy snubbed the Sox the first time, he was dead to me. I was excited they signed Dunn. Rios I felt like he had to perform really well to justify the move but I thought there was at least a chance he could do so. My instincts were buried by my enthusiasm for the club in that case. When discussing Rios for fantasy baseball purposes earlier that same season I said “I’m not a believer in Rios.”
I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE
I maybe da man, but an interesting article on Sale as a starter
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 16, 2011 8:38 AM CST reply actions
For the lazy among us...
So mixing those numbers together, the best comparables to Sale’s skill set are Josh Johnson, Jon Lester and C.J. Wilson. That’s pretty wonderful company. It would be unwise to project his performance to rival those pitchers in his first year as a starter, of course, but it tells you just how strong his skill package is. Sale also doesn’t face the problem that gets most relievers banished to the bullpen in the first place; he actually has three pitches
(Thx for the link.)
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
Certainly some great company to be in.
The velocity should still be plenty for a lefty. I agree with the point on control too, I believe it will improve with the reps he would get as a starter. If he can put together something similar to the 3:1 K:BB ratio they are projecting here, he should be a stud. Now if they had just held onto Dan Hudson to slot in next to him…
Just imagine a Danks-Floyd-Richards-Hudson-Sale rotation which would cost less than Peavy-Jackson
With Holmberg in the minors
Richard had arthroscopic surgery on his shoulder last year and has been pretty ho-hum despite pitching at Petco.
I’d pass on him.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
I do not miss seeing that face.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
My first thought on the Buehrle-Cub contact thing
That it’s at least partly an attempt by his side to egg the Sox on. Especially with what Jim said about Buehrle’s comments on Wrigley.
I thought I saw mention on MLBTR of Buehrle’s agent having another meeting with Marlins people.. Kenny will catch hell for Buehrle signing elsewhere, but the anger would probably be louder and longer lasting if Buehrle signs with either of those.
But that’s probably me reading too much into what the agent might be trying to do.
But it comes with a free frogurt...
seriously Jim, great Simpsons references there!
Yeah, but it comes with a choice of topping.
by polodude017 on Nov 16, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
The topping contains Potassium Benzoate.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 16, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Can someone flip KW's switch from 'Gets Fleeced' back to 'Fleeces Others' please?
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 16, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Alex Rios' knees are filled with Potassium Benzoate.
Furious George! What happened to your beautiful face?!?
by AirTrafficAJ on Nov 16, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
The White Sox have resigned LHP Leyson Septimo, who still throws very very hard and doesn't really do much else.
My name is Leyson Septimo, you killed my father
SHOW GREG WALKER THE NEW EMPLOYEE ORIENTATION VIDEO!
Never gets old, billy.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
by winningugly on Nov 16, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
the hell you say
He plays lots of iPad games. Pretty well, it seems:
@leyson7mo leyson septimo
Just reached level 15 on Paradise Island HD on my iPad bit.ly/islandhd #ipad #ipadgames
29 Oct Favorite Retweet Reply
Dave Martinez woulda had that.
by Nordhagen on Nov 16, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
evidently Lindsay a possibility to return
http://twitter.com/#!/MDGonzales/status/136213681657753600
by metasox on Nov 16, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It was never a question of if they wanted Shane back in my mind.
Just a question of if they could get him.
by mechanical turk on Nov 16, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
SHANE!
don’t go, Shane!
"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."
by boyonthedock on Nov 16, 2011 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
He's not dead, he's slumped.
Slumped don’t mean dead.
So both Chicago teams could now be rebuilding
One will invest the least in MLB on the draft, the other among the most. I wonder whose plan will work out better. I am about 75% convinced they will trade a couple guys for young pieces. But going by my never believe a word KW tells the media thought process, something still says there is a 25% shot that I am driving to work and hear KW saying, “We really love Chris Sale and Dayan Viciedo, they are going to do great things. But to get a player like David Wright, you are going to have to give up value.”
"So both Chicago teams should now be rebuilding"
Fixed that for you.
by polodude017 on Nov 16, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
What would interest you all more
1) A White Sox “retooled” team on the brink of contention
2) A young White Sox team with some high potential prospects
for me? 2.
because i don’t think the “retooled” team will be on the brink of contention. I wouldn’t mind shipping most everyone out. the problem is i don’t trust kenny to get anyone that can help.
so we are fucked either way.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Your face should be retooled.
;)
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
by winningugly on Nov 16, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent point in KW and value.
Maybe one more year of disappointment and we’ll get to see what Hahn can do.
by polodude017 on Nov 16, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
I think you need to elaborate on #1 a little more.
Are you talking about a real contender or the kind of “contender” we saw last year?
by polodude017 on Nov 16, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
The Sox were a real contender last year.
Hard to argue they were not. And to all the geniuses who say but a team that makes a playoffs has no shot at winning the world series……Well you know the answer to that…
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
I guess that all depends on your definition of contending.
Clearly once you’re in the playoffs, anyone can win it, and has won it. I just never felt the Sox were really in contention this year.
Well that would be wrong.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Statistically, of course they were a contender.
But I would agree with polodude17 that you just never “felt” good about the ’11 version. Intangibles and all that.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 16, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
I never felt like they clicked, sure totally agree with that.
But until the wheels came off in Sept they certainly a great chance to win this awful division.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
thats what was so excruciating about the season imho
I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE
1 all day for me,
I’m content to let somebody else be the Kansas City Royals.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Possibe the Royals supplant the Sox next year.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
Heard that before .
See me at the end of the year.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Even still Im pretty sure I will take all comers on White Sox vs Royals best record next year.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
I totally discount what the White Sox did the final 3-4 weeks of the season
And piss on Ozzie Guillen.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
and perhaps one could discount what the royals did for the first two or three months.
my point was simply that the royals are much closer to the white sox than most people realize. and with a 2011 team that was, on average, 1.5 years younger than any other team. they may be a .500 ball club right now, without adding any free agent starter(s).
uh huh
Believe when I see it.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
frankly, that's odd from you.
it’s not that hard to look at their roster, look at the projections and see it.
Oh I see it.
I see all the talent and understand where the projections come from. I’m not implying you are crazy for thinking it. But I also believe in a losing culture. That wall has to be knocked down. Its far too easy when obstacles appear for it to take hold again. I have no doubt KC will eventually win again. It just will take more for to see before I believe it will translate on the field right away.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
I do.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Not sure how much to buy into the 2011 Royals
13 fWAR from the fabled Melky/Frenchy/Gordon trio. That follows the -0.8 they put up the year before. Love Hosmer, not so sure on a lot of the rest of the guys.
What I meant was
When you say the Royals are closer to the Sox than people realize and they had a better pythag record, it is difficult to put much stock in that going forward because those results are from getting 13 WAR from those guys. Getting closer to the Sox would be a lot more meaningful if it was because of the guys coming up, not middling journeyman types who all click in the same year.
i can play the throwaway game with the white sox, too.
let’s see, formerly not even replacement level players de aza, lillibridge and humber. and i’ll make it easy for myself and toss out buehrle. now we’re even.
Now your freaking crossing the line buddy boy
DE AZA IS THE MAN and a MVP candidate next year!
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
I wasn't going by who will or won't be on the team
I was going by fluke performances that are unlikely to be repeated. They got 13 WAR out of nowhere from three guys. The Sox got 7.6 from the three guys you mentioned. Gordon could be legit now (though not 7 WAR legit), and it wouldn’t be surprising if Humber turned into a serviceable but unspectacular starter like Floyd did.
I agree that this year they were not that far apart. I just meant they were not that far apart in a year when they had some guys put up years that probably won’t be repeated in the same year the Sox did. Except the Sox biggest outliers were for the negative.
the white sox got 7.6 WAR out of players who were replacement level or below for their careers.
the royals got 13 WAR out of players who had actually done something in their careers. it would not have been unreasonable going into the season to say that their three would put up 5.4 WAR. if you want to call them flukes, they both got about the same fluke value.
we can play this game forever. it’s better simply to not start.
Do you agree or disagree with the following...
The White Sox won 79 games in a season where their biggest performance outliers were negative compared to recent history. The Royals won 71 games in a season in which their biggest performance outliers compared to recent history were positive.
i don't care enough to think about it. i think the analysis you're doing is silly.
we can play the this guy exceeded expectations and that guy underperformed with any team.
You said the Royals were closer to the Sox than most realize
My opinion was I didn’t think they were as close, as their top contributors might be unlikely to repeat their positive performances, and I still haven’t seen a lot to like with their pitching.
I tried to support it
Just didn’t understand why you didn’t support yours.
obviously you took my throwaway observation about pythag and ran with it.
the team the royals had on the field in the second half of the season was not a 71 win team. i’m not sure the white sox record was a disservice.
I know Tampa Bay did their thing
but a team like Pittsburgh who were 5 games above .500 and +12 run differential on July 15 before tanking is lot more common.
Of course as I said I’ve been slumping badly so I’m probably totally wrong.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Who are going to be there everyday players next year?
Gordon, Hosmer, Cain, That guy with MM initials. Who else? They still running Getz out there? Franceuoisometimesyr?
That's a pretty darn solid lineup...
assuming some of the young guys take some baby steps forward.
Sorry, he's my chump first.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
Be careful.
6 weeks later and no payoff. Maybe he likes you better.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
by winningugly on Nov 16, 2011 8:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Buehrle to the Cubs?!

"I enjoy young people." - Jerry "The Creep" Sandusky during Bob Costas' interview (11/14/11)
by tailgater on Nov 16, 2011 1:12 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
"The problem is, the starting pitching market is absolutely abysmal, which is why Buehrle — he’s had a terrific career, I’m not taking anything away from him — but he’s going to get a lot more money than anybody ever anticipated," Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated told The McNeil and Spiegel Show. "He’s the most accomplished guy on the market. He’s much more accomplished than C.J. Wilson, and much more consistent. He’s performed much better in the postseason. I’m not saying he’s going to get more than Wilson, but if I’m the Yankees, if I’m Boston, any of those teams, I’m looking at Buehrle. I’m not looking at Wilson."
"The White Sox are not appearing to be in this game because the price is getting way high, I’m sure," Heyman said. "He may get a four-year deal. He may get $13, $14 million a year or more. Who knows? I don’t see the White Sox (signing him). The Cubs would be interesting, but they’re not really a contender."
Is Heyman credible?
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
apparently there are 13 teams in on him. including the twins.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
and after looking at those teams available
and knowing buehrle…
i wouldn’t be surprised if he’s in royal blue next year.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
the reason i say this is it is a laid back atmosphere... in his home state... for a team with a lot of offensive talent on the rise.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Good call.
I do believe I would advise him to take the money. Obviously our horseshit economy does not include baseball.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
by winningugly on Nov 16, 2011 3:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Complete different side/culture of the state though.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
that's about an hour and a half of driving.
i’d say a 3.5 hour trip compared to a 5 hour trip is a pertinent difference.
For 16 Mildo a year
He could fly his solid gold helicopter to St. Charles from wherever he signs.
Furious George! What happened to your beautiful face?!?
by AirTrafficAJ on Nov 16, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
he drove from chicago on off days. don't see why he wouldn't for a shorter distance.
flying in a helicopter for 2.5 hours would rather suck. even a private plane probably wouldn’t be much faster than driving that distance. and one can still drive in bad weather.
And with a truck that big, you can drive in a straight line.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 16, 2011 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
I thought
that only Dunn had a Canyonero…
Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969
Two 60-gallon tanks.
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2009/07/mark_buehrle_deserves_a_parade.php
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
I thought he lived in Lemont during the season?
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
I have a lot of friends from St. Charles
They’re not very much like St. Louisians.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 16, 2011 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
EI!!!!!

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 16, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
And that could, literally, put the Royals into contention.
Where’s Tdogg?
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
working feverishly to find $14 million
White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.
by greenlight on Nov 16, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Because Tyler Flowers is a backup.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 16, 2011 10:49 PM CST up reply actions
You got a better option?
And they are paying him quite well. And he actually had a great AJ year.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
I'm ok with it...
as long as they give Flowers a start more than once a week. I know his bat might never be what many once projected, but his defense (while not exactly gold glove caliber) is light years ahead of AJ at this point.
Ventura is not Guillen
I doubt AJ plays the number of games he was accustomed to under his leadership.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
prediction: best shape of his life.
and that goes for everyone there.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Agreed. After how embarrassing last season was, they all should
be in the best shape they ever have when reporting to ST. Paulie gets a pass, but really, it wouldn’t be that hard for him. Just only have one phone in his house that he has to run to every time it rings.
by South Side Expat on Nov 17, 2011 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
Malarkey.
I have to assume you’ve seen Paulie run. No way the caller stays on the phone that long.
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
Don't have a better option
Yeah he is a better hitter, but we are going to get exploited when we play running teams (I’m thinking of the Twins series early last season, and every time we play the Angels)
So there is no hope of us trading (*or drafting) for a catcher?
Dunn/Rios are bigger issues.
Beckham is a bigger concern. Catcher is not our weakest position.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
especially when your worry apparently is when the white sox face the like three "running teams".
what a horrid way to choose a starter.
"Bigger" means "more".
In the grand scheme of things I would posit that AJ did not cost us the division this year, and will probably not cost us the division next year if he throws out 0% of SB attempts.
Or else maybe we can talk Karko out of retirement.
The sun on the balcony is almost unbearable, worse than the booing fans in Chicago shedding miserable light on his failures at work.
Karko is too old
I’m thinking we can trade for Yadier Molina, package three prospects with AJ, Flowers and Castro.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Those were my examples
Not my rubric for choosing a starter…He’s below average defensively is all I’m trying to say

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