Free agency begins in full; Mark Buehrle rumors continue
by Jim Margalus on Nov 3, 2011 6:01 AM CDT
in White Sox Rumors
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The White Sox's exclusive window to negotiate a new contract with Juan Pierre has ended. The all-inclusive version of free agency has begun, and here's a handy primer for what's going on.
General free agency information
Mark Buehrle and Pierre are Type B free agents, but that only matters for the former, since there's no chance of the White Sox offering arbitration to the latter. Of course, being a Type B free agent makes Buehrle an easier sell for other teams, since it won't cost them their first-round pick.
Your standard list of all free agents of varying interest and consequences, and sortable stats for all free agents.
Buehrle ranks 12th on the FanGraphs list, and 13th on MLBTR's list.
Whirly Buehrle
Rounding up the first round of Mark Buehrle rumors...
- Ozzie's Marlins could foil Sox's plans - ESPN Chicago
- Hoyer doesn't sugar-coat situation - chicagotribune.com
- Nationals might make less of a splash this offseason - Washington Post
- Buehrle has many options - chicagotribune.com
Three different outlets speculate three different teams having an interest in Buehrle. Doug Padilla thinks the Miami Marlins might use Ozzie Guillen's connections to lure free agency's top remaining lefty (at least if C.J. Wilson can be believed) to Florida. Paul Sullivan thinks the Cubs might have an interest in Buehrle if the price isn't "astronomical," but if the price isn't "astronomical," the White Sox would probably be equally interested. And you have the Nats, too.
But the last link is most significant. Mark Gonzales reports that Mark Buehrle is open to playing anywhere, at least according to his agent, Jeff Berry. That's probably not true, but as always, it's their job to cast a wide net at the onset of open season.
Christian Marrero Reading Room
Joe McEwing, freshly minted White Sox third base coach, could be considered for the even fresher, mintier Cardinals managing job.
The Baltimore Orioles, already hurting from two high-profile rejections, are interested in Rick Hahn, but Dan Connolly says Hahn will remain with the White Sox for the forseeable future. Given that Hahn didn't interview for the Pittsburgh job when it was open a few years ago, I can't see why he'd be interested in gunning for an equally hopeless job.
While Nolan Ryan's noogies are a fixture of the highlights at Rangers Ballpark, the Rangers say they will refrain from showing them during the season-opening series with the White Sox. Fornelli thinks that would be the time for Robin Ventura to strike.
James is bummed out by how set the 2012 roster appears. Which probably means that it's quiet ... too quiet.
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If Burlz were to sign with the Cubs I don't think I would have the capasity to love anymore.
I would compare it to Favre playing for the Vikings. Of course under vastly different circumstances.
2011 WhiteSox Baseball: we're all in
It would certainly increase my dislike for Kenny Williams.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 3, 2011 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you should swap your user name for VentchnCoop
embrace change!
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
that is better than mine
you can start fresh. RobonCop
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I already own the rights, but would be glad to sell it for a small fee
White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.
and what am i supposed to do if buehrle doesn't return?
i’m considering going with “kenwilliamscankissmyfuckingassrightdowntownandprintit”.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
by BuehrleMan on Nov 3, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Who gives a shit about Favre
I’d compare it to McMahon playing for the Pack.
?
What make a player a Type B free agent as opposed to a Type A? Is it like the NFL where the team designates the player as a restricted free agent, makes a certain monetary offer based on that designation, and then if a team matches their offer (or exceeds it) they get a predetermined draft pick for that player?
Just wondering why Buehrle is a B and not an A.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
hoosier is just a simply unfrozen caveman commenter. You can't expect him to understand your world's links.
by joewho112 on Nov 3, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Between 20% and 40% is a Type B… ok
My next question would be, how is Buehrle not in the top 20%??? If it is in the link then I didn’t see it (Larry) I just google searched to find the explanation for myself. I haven’t ever spent a lot of time on the ins and outs of baseball, just looking for some help.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
questions.
is changing the ranking system something that is talked about a lot? it seems that it could be improved. do you agree? do you think it’s important that it be improved? is it likely to change anytime soon?
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
yes to all.
what the owners want for the new CBA is the owners get draft slotting, the players get the free agent compensation system abolished. what in actuality will happen is a tax on draft spending over a certain amount (like the luxury tax) and adjustments to how type A compensation works (as in, signing teams won’t lose a draft pick to the player’s former team). it wouldn’t surprise me to see tweaks to the ranking formulas in this CBA, particularly for relievers and maybe older players less likely to get long-term deals.
tanks.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
Why not scrap the whole ranking system?
If it’s going to be that much change I don’t see why they would go through the trouble of creating that many circumstances. Why not something more objective, like a fraction of the player’s new salary?
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 3, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
i thought it was clear.
the owners aren’t going to get hard slotting from the players. so they’re not going to give the players what they want.
Ok, but I'm still not sure how compensation would work in that system.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 3, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Elias has a stupid scoring system that looks at bullshit like pitcher wins and winning percentage
No one told those bitches about multicollinearity
the ranking method has about the same merit as the gold glove selection system, i think.
by obnoxious american on Nov 3, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
As opposed to the new system
that brought us 2010 SS GG Derek Jeter
by son_of_sophist on Nov 3, 2011 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Amy K. Nelson is joining SBN.
Great news. She’s good.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
.
"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton
by Grinder Rule #42 on Nov 3, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
She writes network logos on microphones?
by joewho112 on Nov 3, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
not any more
unless sbn starts doing mic checks
"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton
by Grinder Rule #42 on Nov 3, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
calm down man.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
KLaw apparently likes Buehrle more than other rankers, he puts him at #6 on his FA rankings
by Yinka Double Dare on Nov 3, 2011 11:08 AM CDT reply actions
Buehrle is overrated by those who want to discuss his potential Hall of Fame case (I’m not on board), but he is underrated because of his lack of premium performances. His best attribute is his ability to log innings — he throws with about as little effort as anyone this side of Livan Hernandez and has plus control, letting him work deep into games.
Buehrle has thrown more than 200 innings and made at least 30 starts in 11 straight seasons, and the last year in which he walked more than 50 batters unintentionally was 2003. In addition, he’s led the American League in hits allowed in four of the past seven seasons, a function of that same durability, but also of his lack of any out pitch and a fringy-at-best fastball. His fastball sits in the mid-80s; however, he pairs it with a big-breaking cutter that looks more like a slider but is closer in velocity to his fastball than an ordinary slider would be, as well as an upper-70s changeup with downward action and good arm speed. He hides the ball well behind his body. In front of a bad defense, Buehrle could be a disaster, but in the right environment, he’s a solid innings eater in the middle of a rotation who provides unusual reliability.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove11/story/_/id/7117778/keith-law-top-free-agents-2011-12
i assume he means “lack of premium performances” in the season context and not individual performances because there’s the matter of no hitters and perfect game.
Understandable (not that you need/want my opinion), but what would he need to get to in terms of stats to make it?
Do you think it would help his case to stay with the White Sox? I think it says something for a player to stay with one team for most/all of his career (which Buehrle has essentially already done). I am just searching for reasons for him to stay.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
about 150 more victories
in a short period of time. He doesn’t have the brief dominance one could use in favor of Pedro Martinez or the longevity of Tom Glavine (yet).
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 3, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Brief dominance?
Pedro was a god for 7 years!
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
and then totally fell apart, which indicates, to me, something was amiss.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 3, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
He ran out of bullets
The dude threw really hard and with a ton of torque. He was a natural freak but not in regards to durability.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 3, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
As in he got hurt or as in he was on roids?
Because it’s been a while since we had a good old “only an actively practicing moron would think a sudden drop in performance is indicative of steroid use” argument in a while.
So that explains Jermaine Dye.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 3, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
All I'll say is that with the baseball Hall of Fame, the standards
are vague and open to interpretation. One is allowed to think whatever one wants about whether certain players should or shouldn’t be in Cooperstown.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 3, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Three time Cy Young winner with over 3,000 strikeouts and has a ring.
His 2000 season may be the single greatest season for a pitcher ever. The man is a first ballot HoFer, no doubt about it.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
frank also had one of the greatest 7 year runs in all of baseball.
another no brainer.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Wait, so after someone comes down from a 7 year peak as one of the most dominant pitchers of all-time
That suggests treachery is afoot?
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Communist sympathizing.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Body image issues
Damn you Cosmo! Why must you constantly remind us that we’ll never be as thin as Calista Flockhart?!
by joewho112 on Nov 3, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
of course.
10+ years of essentially pitching 200+ innings and being in his mid-thirties suggests treachery. possibly treason.
He did spend quite a few years in Canada.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
by U-God on Nov 3, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
as long as it was grade A dark amber i'm not concerned.
if he was using that grade C shit that’s for commercial use…well, that stuff shouldn’t be anywhere near a table.
by larry on Nov 3, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see more medium amber north of the border.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
I was gonna say...
250 victories and 2000 K’s keeps him on the 2nd ballot.
A good bunch of guys have had perfect games who have to pay admission.
sideways smiley face
and that's 10 more seasons for him
Buehrle seems to indicate he doesn’t want to play into his late 30’s.
I’m sure a big, fat $30mil contract changes alot, though.
sideways smiley face
HUH?
A good bunch of guys have had perfect games who have to pay admission.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Billy Pierce has 211 wins and a 3.27 lifetime ERA and he's not in yet
I’m thinking in the 225-250 range for #56.
go to the yankees or red sox... pitch in a bunch of world series games
::ducks from buehrleman throwing shit at me::
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
in the short term, he probably need to get to, or get pretty close to, 300 wins.
he’s not going to have any particularly impressive traditional statistic other than potentially wins. he may become better appreciated if the newer statistics take hold. he still will lack any impressive peak. not sure if people will ever think many years of pretty good performance gets you into the hall of fame.
yes.
Ok, I have always wondered what his chances are. He has been such a solid player for so long that I think he should at least be considered for the Hall of Fame. The no-hitter and perfect game were incredible, but I think the best part about Buehrle is that he has been so reliable. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
Jim Kaat calls BS.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
He pitched in the MLB for 4 different decades
Ain’t his fault his teams sometimes were stinky thus lowering his W-L record… I think he should be in especially since they’ve let in some seriously questionable pitchers *cough Jessie Haines cough*
But what do I know, I would be perfectly happy if it did become the Hall of Very Good… let them in!
Except Pete Rose and anyone else who gambled… they can get bent.
Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969
If you let in the Black Sox...
you open a whole can of worms, then you would probably have to consider some really shady early characters, like Hal Chase, as well. As good of a player as Shoeless Joe was, there is sworn testimony to him taking the money. Actions have consequences.
Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969
Reminds me of the Bill James quote
“My own opinion is that the people who want to put Joe Jackson in the Hall of Fame are baseball’s answer to those women who show up at murder trails wanting to marry the cute murderer.”
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 3, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
that overweight pompous jerkwad can go to hell.
by Shoeless In SC on Nov 3, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Couldn't disagree more. We'll get into it later (tomorrow?) though it would be cool
If you did a Fanpost of your objections to James.
Now THAT would bring viewers to the site!
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
My guess is it's merely one South Carolinian standing up for another.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
the consensus from what i've gotten before on SSS
is that most think he shouldn’t. It’d be interesting to see a poll. My position is that if you let Pete Rose in, then you gotta let Shoeless Joe in.
NAOPOS
i don't agree with that.
rose bet on the reds. every time. jackson fixed games (at least thats what he agreed to do). so while one was betting on his team to win the other agreed to make sure his team didn’t.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
That is the popular perception of Shoeless Joe
but it has almost been 100 years. Why don’t you and I have a go at the point/counterpoint on whether or not Shoeless should be in the HOF? Fanpost to Fanpost
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
you know what... i would if i was well versed enough in the black sox scandal.
i’m really not. i never watched 8 men out and haven’t really read up too much on any of it. i know what they said at the beginning of field of dreams and some stuff i’ve read on here and other sites… but i am sure you could find someone who could create a better argument than i can.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
I just got done with some research and analysis
I have some cleaning up to do probably over the weekend but I’ll post something up on my argument as to why he should be in the HOF Obviously this argument has been made numerous times by other people, I am just using Jackson’s grand jury testimony, the play-by-play and statistics from B-R and some newspaper archive articles I dug up from the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
for the cardinal sin of baseball
it is. this isn’t an issue to have grey areas. you’ll note that rose is the only person in the last 70 years to be banned for betting on baseball or game fixing. compare with the prior 70 years. the deterrent is working quite well.
You should read the grand jury testimony a few times and pretend that you were his defense attorney
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
The way his answers played out it seemed like he didn't really understand some of the questions
and the people doing the questioning never really tried to clarify the questioning for him. His chronology was all off and he was not a very intelligent man. With the history of coersion in Cook County as a background, this simpleton from the stix is talking to highly intelligent city slickers who could have been molding his answers.
Jackson said he never agreed to throw anything and never participated in a meeting about throwing the series. Lefty Williams shows up in his hotel room with $5,000 grand and he says he doesn’t want it. Lefty tells him he might as well keep it either way. Jackson was paid $6,000 that year for the whole season.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
He even brought it to Comiskey's attention and he was ignored
Yet Comiskey is in the HOF. So is Mountain Landis despite probably setting back baseball a decade or two on the color barrier. In fact here is what Mountain Landis said about the players and why he banned them,
“Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ballgame, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a game, no player who sits in conference with a bunch of crooked players and gamblers where the ways and means of throwing a ballgame is discussed, and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball again.”
He didn’t do any of that as evidenced by his seemingly questionable testimony (the same one people use to proove his guilt) and actually tried to tell Comiskey about it but was ignored. Comiskey probably bet against his team as soon as he caught wind of the conspiracy but of course this angle was never explored, as far as I can tell.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
like i said.
he took the money. end of story. there is no way to determine intent, or even actions, with precision. that is why the rule is simple, straightforward and strict.
That's a favorable interpretation
When I read his testimony, I see a guy who’s upset he didn’t get $20,000.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 4, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
When I look at the play-by-play and statistics he put up I see a player who wasn't throwing a series
His OPS was higher than any other player on either roster. What I see is a confused simpleton who got caught up in something he didn’t fully understand. Obviously Comiskey had already taken full advantage of his ignorance by only paying him 6k when Ty Cobb was making 20k that year. He was an easy mark, a pansy.
He couldn’t even afford his own attorney and apparently used the White Sox attorney and by many accounts that I have read that attorney gave him counsel that could be deemed criminal.
If we are going to take the testimony as bible, which we have to, there are many inconsistencies…he was not a smart man and the testimony was taken a full year after the scandal.
Putting him the HOF, where his career undoubtedly belongs, is not going to make players feel they can now throw games and get away with it, neither would reinstating Buck Weaver.
If people really want to take the highroad on who goes in the HOF or who should be removed there is a lengthy list of devious and shitty people who are enshrined.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
yeah. but they didn't throw games (or, for some of the early players you're referring, didn't get caught).
cardinal sin. you can’t have a competition where people think the result is fixed. they just stop going and the league is done. the deterrent has to be so onerous and so certain that no one will transgress.
your compassion is cute and, yeah, it’s probably unfair in some instances. but that’s the tradeoff that must be made.
I guess I agree with you but looking at things closer on a case-by-case scenario
Believe me, I understand you and Jim’s stance on this but I believe in the color grey.
It really doesn’t matter whether he is in or not because this debate has arguably made him more famous than he would have been had he not been involved in the scandal.
The argument for the sanctity and purity of the HOF to me, is bullshit, considering the scoundrels enshrined in there.
He put up the numbers and no one can change that. I just have to go to a different museum to see his memorabilia.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
So you continue punishing a guy's ghost?
Landis banned alot of people in his time for cut and dry indescretions due to fixing games, gambling and even a few things that seem ridiculous now like holding out on a contract. I don’t think Jackson’s was cut and dry, Landis was just being an old inflexible
bastard,
His statistical record and glory on the field deserves to be recognized by the HOF. If you are going to punish ghosts, lets start taking people out of the HOF too and start with Landis.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
no. now it's for an example to every single ballplayer, manager, coach, owner, umpire.
and, further, a permanent, as in forever, ban sort of loses some of its deterrence if people think it’s not actually permanent because it’s lifted after they die and the legacy they left is swept aside.
this is deterrence 101. if you want people to never do something, you make the punishment clear, simple, punitively onerous and absolutely certain.
even though you are punishing someone for being the best hitter of that World Series
and not making any visibly reported field gaffes. He is being punished for being given money. Even though he didn’t earn the money. To me that sounds stupid.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I don't know where you get your facts
But based on the best account I can find, Landis is one of the greatest figures in baseball history.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
does that mean
that elvis costello isn’t getting into the hall of fame?
because i’m not alright with that.
If jacksons greatness gets shadowed by a single issue
Why not landis’? For all the great things Landis did, it appears he made no effort to integrate the major leagues and could have served as a major obstacle in doing so
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
The owners gave Landis absolute power over all of baseball
You’d think integration would put more people in the stands and money in the owners pockets.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
by Rhubarb on Nov 4, 2011 11:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Interestingly enough
two players who won the 1919 WS with Cincinnati were also banned by Landis but not in connection with the Black Sox scandal.
Heinie Groh and Ray Fisher. Fisher was reinstated in 1980 and Groh was reinstated after two days because he bent to Landis’ demand.
Not trying to make a point, just something I have come across that I thought was funny.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I really don't think compassion is the right word to use
If I see something that seems like an injustice, I kind of always take the side of the person who looks they are being infringed upon. Call it empathy.
Also, I laud you for using the word ‘cute’ in an attempt to deride my stance further.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
this is true.
but the rule isn’t ambiguous that the distinction you draw is irrelevant.
Rule 21(d):
BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year.
Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.
I'll do this
If you were not simply joking about it. I’ll take my time with it. Maybe you or someone who disagrees can rebute. Point-counterpoint
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
At a minimum he needs 300
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
i thought buehrle pitched in front of a bad defense for most of his career
Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Nov 3, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
more like below average according to uzr
Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Nov 3, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
the infield has been the best in baseball. thanks to roger bossard.
the infield defense has been pretty good.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
by BuehrleMan on Nov 3, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm starting to suspect that the Cardinals organization has a McEwing foot fetish
White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.
Sox 30-1 WS Odds in 2012
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/odds-for-2012-world-series-converted-to-projections/
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
If that.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 3, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
hmm that's better than I thought
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
So is everybody else.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Re: Orioles & Pirates and Rick Hahn
I think there’s a strong argument that the Pirates GM job is even more desirable than the Orioles one. The ownership isn’t as meddlesome and obnoxious, and the division is infinitely less difficult to win.
by Pumpkin McPastry on Nov 3, 2011 11:45 AM CDT reply actions
Pirates are also clearly willing to spend in the draft these days
Orioles haven’t shied away from it either (they did take Wieters), but the Pirates spent big this last year and have generally been taking the best player available rather than worrying about demands and/or Boras.
by Yinka Double Dare on Nov 3, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
The Pirates job opened after the Moskos draft.
So they had a reputation of being cheap, too. Maybe not a meddlesome ownership, but one that would drag people down by not investing in any kind of talent.
They’ve made improvements with the new regime.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Nov 3, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Which would be worse, Buerhle on the Yankees or Buerhle on the Cubs?
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 3, 2011 12:16 PM CDT reply actions
cubs. that would mean he'd go straight to shit like everyone else over there.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
at least if he was on the yankees you'd see him in the postseason.
i’m not that big of a yankee hater though.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
shut up.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
by BuehrleMan on Nov 3, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
and it's "buehrle".
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
by BuehrleMan on Nov 3, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
he doesn't deserve an answer purely because of that.
one misspelling you can understand, typos happen, but twice in succession?
Fer crissakes, this.
"On-base percentage is one of the most dangerous concepts of the last seven, eight years." -TLR
The Yankees are a pompous, overbloated empire
However the Cubs are a pathetic bunch of horse manure shaped somewhat like a baseball team, a loatheable abomination to the sport that I would contract in a heartbeat. A Cub Buehrle would be far worse.
We play on the "bad" side of town, we were supposedly cursed, and we wear black. Let's play.
If he were a Yankee he could hunt on Stag Hill in Jersey.
It’d be great.
"On-base percentage is one of the most dangerous concepts of the last seven, eight years." -TLR
Buehrle out of the Sox will be worse
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Nov 4, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
if you haven't heard, minnie minoso is one of the candidates being considered for the hall by the golden era committee.
and the well-oiled white sox PR machine has wasted no time in getting a comprehensive website up about minoso and why he’s deserving:
i see he got hit the most from 51 to 61 of any player
plunkeveryone must have a picture of him over his bed
NAOPOS
by blackoutsox on Nov 3, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
54.6 WAR from 51 to 61
others:
Mickey Mantle: 90.7
Yogi Berra: 47.9
Ted Williams: 45.6
Al Kaline: 42.7
Nellie Fox: 42.2
every single one of those players are hall-of-famers (duh)
NAOPOS
You're comparing the prime of his career to the second half of Ted Williams'.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
I know, but it's kind of a weird choice for this list.
All the others were in their primes, like Minnie.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
well, 51-61 is pretty much minnie's major league career.
i think the point is to show that he was one of the best players in the majors when he was actually allowed to play in the majors.
I still find it incredible that Mantle put up those numbers
If he didn’t destroy his knee his rookie year, god knows what would’ve happened.
NAOPOS
If you haven't already you should get a biography on the guy
It was much more than the knee; he was also a party animal. You probably know all this but just in case.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I read 'the last boy' over the summer - great book
its hard to get any more injured than he did and still play baseball
NAOPOS
minoso supposedly started in the majors at age 28
or 25 depending on his birth date, playing in other leagues 8 years before that. Not to say that hes better than Ted Williams but his numbers are also affected from what they could’ve been.
Plus I just copied that from one of the articles in larrys link. Thought it was interesting.
NAOPOS
Williams also lost prime years of his career to the war.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
What would his WAR have been if he hadn't been in the war?
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
...a bigger number.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 3, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Crude math:
Took his WAR in the two years before and after the war, averaged out per year, added that total times 3 to his career (using FanGraphs numbers). I got an average of 11.8 WAR (41, 42, 46 and 47). New total: 175.2.
Again, very crude. But, wow, he was good.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 3, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
He is my favorite player that I never saw play
He was also my fathers favorite player and he saw him play numerous times at the old stadium. That is awesome you did the calculations but I was just making a lame joke about WAR and war.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I know.
I felt bad about being a smart ass and wanted to see the numbers myself, lol.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Nov 3, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
His BR page is something
In the 50s he was frequently AL top 10 in WAR, Avg, OBP, Slg, doubles, triples, OF assists.
Basically- one of the best in the AL for an entire decade.
i hope he makes it. my dad would be thrilled... that is his favorite of all time.
maybe my first cooperstown trip would come this year instead of when frank goes in.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Which reminds me
I should look at his player file next month.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
Make it a week long series
Write it all during Xmas and you can put it on cruise control for a week.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Watch. Santo will get in but not Orestes.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
They're gonna Buck him.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Ah! Hadn't thought of that. Good call, less objectionable.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
Jason Frasor's second-most comparable pitcher according to B-Ref?
David Riske.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
I think that makes him the No. 1 comp now.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
here's something scott merkin wrote
Gritty veteran Roy Oswalt has been mentioned as has young fireballer Edwin Jackson.
now i know it’s all relative but at age 28 i would not have considered classifying edwin jackson like that.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111103&content_id=25891474&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
compared to buehrle, oswalt and sabathia he's young(er)
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Sox killer Bruce Chen is available and waiting by the phone for Kenny's call
SHOW GREG WALKER THE NEW EMPLOYEE ORIENTATION VIDEO!
Hearing AJ Burnett is possibly available for trade makes me nervous.
This sounds like a Kenny deal waiting to happen. Floyd and Q for Burnett anyone?
Where the white women at?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M
lets trade john danks to the cubs for
jeff baker! he can play at third! danks doesn’t win and at one point baker was totally hitting like .350 for the cubs!
NAOPOS
Did you know that he is owed 33 millon over the next two seasons?
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
He was available a year ago too but no one wanted him then either
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I want Burnett as much as I want Tony Pena back.
I rather KW signs Freddy a thousand times.
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Nov 4, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
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