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Minnie to the max: More about Minoso

That's one of four videos on whitesox.com's new section for Minnie Minoso, as they begin the push for his last best chance at induction into the Hall of Fame.

We'll throw in whatever clout we have, because Minoso is deserving of enshrinement. As mentioned in my post from this morning, Don Zminda of STATS Inc. does an excellent job of summing up his case. Which is great, because that means I can just link to that, and spend my time surrounding his case with facts, opinion and other perspectives surrounding his career as I can find them.

Star-divide

 

The best explanation and excavation of Minoso's Hall of Fame case can be found on Baseball Think Factory's Hall of Merit discussion of his career.

(If you're unfamiliar with the Hall of Merit, it basically attempts to redraw the Hall of Fame's inductees at its current size from a sabermetric viewpoint, focusing on pure value while filtering out the cronyism, causes célèbres, high-horsery, debunked mythology, and other factors that have led to an inconsistent Hall of Fame voting process process. So Shoeless Joe Jackson is in, Freddie Lindstrom is out, and so on.)

The Hall of Merit avoids sentiment as much as it can, so you won't see inherent partiality in the discussion. In fact, you'll see people making points both for and against his worthiness as they try to fill in the gap that is Minoso's pre-integration career.

One of the voters specializes in running major-league equivalent stats of Negro League and minor-league statistics, and this is how he filled in Minoso's pre-MLB career based on the available evidence from his Negro League and Pacific Coast League stats:

Year AVG OBP SLG G PA AB H TB BB OPS+
1945 .286 .362 .384 95 404 361 103 139 43 108
1946 .243 .312 .360 132 554 503 122 181 51 90
1947 .279 .353 .426 148 627 562 157 239 65 106
1948 .289 .365 .433 147 628 560 162 243 67 115
1949 .269 .326 .420 112 463 426 115 179 36 99
1950 .307 .385 .439 136 581 515 158 226 66 116

 

Obviously, the specific numbers aren't to be taken as gospel, but it provides an idea of what Minoso could have contributed before he was able to break into the big leagues. Given that he hit 326/.422/.500 and finished second in Rookie of the Year voting in 1951 (he should've finished first, but winner Gil McDougald was white), it probably can be assumed that he had at least a few years of average-or-better performance taken away from him. Minoso was inducted into the Hall of Merit in "1987."

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Minoso led the American League 10 times in getting hit by pitches. He's the White Sox's all-time leader with 145 over 5,915 plate appearances, and Nellie Fox is 20 behind him with 3,500 more PA.

(Minoso was no Carlos Quentin, who is sixth on the Sox's all-time list with 78 ... and he's not even to 2,000 PA yet.)

Crowding the plate was the big reason why Minoso took so many for the team, but the opposition wanted to try to intimidate him, too. He didn't give in. Bob Vanderberg relays this story in his book Sox: From Fain to Lane and Zisk to Fisk about one particularly painful plunking.

Another time, in 1956, he was struck on the right big toe with a pitch thrown by a Baltimore lefty named Don Ferrarese, later a teammate of Minoso's on the Indians and White Sox. He wuld be sidelined, the doctor said, indefinitely. Two nights later, he hobbled to the plate in a makeshift shoe and doubled during a game-tying 11th-inning rally in the opener of the miraculous four-game sweep of the Yankees that drew 125,433 pennant-starved fans to Comiskey Park.

"The pitch, it broke the toe, and I have to cut out the shoe," Minnie told me. "They say, 'Can you play?' And I say, 'Well, look, I think I be able to play.' They say, 'No, I don't think you can play.' I say, 'Look, I play, but you gotta buy me two pair new shoes.' It usta cost maybe $25. And they say, 'All right.' So I cut out my shoe, you know, and I play."

Star-divide

Bill James, in his required-reading book The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, called Minoso the 10th-best left fielder of all time. In the brief write-up for Minoso, he passes along this quote:

"Sooner or later, whenever we talk about hitting, someone will ask me if there will ever be another .400 hitter in the major leagues. Of all the so-called "sluggers" in the big time today, the ony one I can think of who really qualifies in all respects is Minnie Minoso. -- Ted Williams, "Who Will Hit .400," Ted Williams as told to Paul Gardner, Baseball Stars of 1955.

Williams' opinion on banned/delayed baseball players would carry weight when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1966, as he voiced support for the inclusion of Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson during his speech.

Star-divide

Minnie Minoso Reading Room

Minoso's SABR biography provides a nice overview of his baseball life, filling in some of the gaps before he came to the White Sox.

In another one of those great first-person articles from 2003, Minoso talks about his performance in the 1957 All-Star Game.

I played toward the line a little bit, but Stengel motioned me to go back where I was. Right before the pitch, I moved back to where I wanted to be. (Hodges) hits a line drive over third and I made a running catch for the final out of the game.

Stengel comes over to me and asks, "Hey, Minoso, did you move back after I moved you?" I said yeah and he just laughs, saying, "You made a hell of a play."

While searching for the Minoso Hall of Merit discussion, I found this Joe Posnanski article from 2009 that looks at the players who are in the Hall of Merit, but not in the Hall of Fame. He spends a few paragraphs on Minoso, and here's the conclusion:

But then, when he got three years younger, suddenly he was 25 when he got to the big leagues and his career tailed off badly when he turned 36 (instead of 39). And it all seemed just slightly less impressive. Of course, it shouldn't make any difference. Minoso was a Negro Leagues star who was buried in the minor leagues for a couple of years before becoming the first black player to play in Chicago. He was a huge star for 10 years. And he was an iconic player. I often think that when you take everything into account, Minnie Minoso is the biggest void in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

In which we learn Phil Rogers is aware of our friend Rob Neyer.

"Unfortunately, I think he's largely remembered for the stunts,'' said analyst Rob Neyer of SB Nation. "But wasn't he the first black Latino star in the majors? Seems like that should be his legacy.''

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Hee

The game and attitudes were different. Minoso led the league in hit by pitches 10 seasons, due in part to the fact that he hit out of a crouch and stood close to the plate.

His manager, Paul Richards, said that Minnie was fearless and that he didn’t care if he got hit. In those days, pitchers wouldn’t let batters crowd the plate and hitters who were thrown at would usually retaliate.

Jackie Robinson and Minnie Minoso Retaliated Differently

Jackie Robinson was not a man to throw at. If he thought a pitcher was throwing at him, Jackie would push a bunt between the mound and first base, forcing the first baseman to field it and making the pitcher cover first base.

For some reason, Robinson often crashed into the pitcher on such a play.

Minnie Minoso went about things differently. Minnie sometimes had a problem holding onto his bat, which usually occurred after a pitch came close to his head. Halfway through his swing, Minnie would inexplicably lose his grip on the bat, sending it flying towards the pitcher.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/658053-minnie-minoso-what-can-i-say-im-black

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Nov 4, 2011 12:41 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

Jim, I assume you saw that Neyer disagrees that Minoso belongs in the HOF:

Deserving? Maybe. Baseball-Reference.com has him with 49 Wins Above Replacement. From the beginning, Minoso averaged roughly 5 WAR per season. If we’re just a little generous, it’s not hard to figure him for 60 WAR in his career. But there are a lot of guys with (approximately) 60 WAR who are not in the Hall: Will Clark, Ken Boyer, Sherry Magee, Jim Wynn, Sal Bando, Willie Randolph, Buddy Bell, Keith Hernandez, Graig Nettles, Dwight Evans … the list actually goes on at some length.

Maybe we should give Minoso more than two extra seasons. Maybe, if not for the color line that kept him out of (so-called) Organized Baseball until he was almost 23, he would have three or four more seasons in the majors, and the correlative statistics.

I just can’t quite go that far, though. As much as I used to, and would still like to.

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/4/7/2096869/measuring-minnie-minosos-hall-of-fame-case

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Nov 4, 2011 12:54 PM CDT reply actions  

someones asking for a 'larry'ing
That eliminates Minoso
 
Or it should.

23 or 25, he wasn’t that good until a year before he came up. This is just more beating the dead horse about…

Baseball forums are full of self-righteous fascists who love to sound noble on this dead subject. Some of them are lawyers too.

by Free_AEC on Apr 7, 2011 7:20 PM CDT actions

NAOPOS

by blackoutsox on Nov 4, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup.

I’m guessing a lot of people don’t understand the distinctions between Black, Latino and black Latino, and think Jackie Robinson opened the door for all of them.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Nov 4, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's the key to build a campaign around

Minoso as proto-Clemente.

By the numbers he is the first black Latino star, and did it as part of the first wave of players to integrate the game. He was the player who integrated Chicago baseball- preceding Banks by over 2 years. Not that anyplace was easy, but given what we know of Chicago that was no small burden. Having language and cultural gaps as well (that stuck him with the name Minnie)- deepens his story and importance.

by Titan52 on Nov 4, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

take a look at minoso vs. larry doby.

if doby is in- minoso is in.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Nov 4, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

who watches the watchmen
A Major League Baseball investigator in the Dominican Republic has been charged with falsifying the identity of a prospect so the player could obtain a contract with a $135,000 signing bonus.

Authorities accused Kleiber Miguel Bruno Gonzalez on Thursday of accepting $25,000 and conspiring with a scout and an independent trainer to alter the player’s identity. Police did not identify the other people involved.

The U.S. Embassy helped police with the investigation, which found that the player spent two years living with a woman who pretended to be his mother, according to authorities.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/45167401

by larry on Nov 4, 2011 4:06 PM CDT reply actions  

The SEC will hire this guy.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Nov 4, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

this scout was a regular patron and later investor at Dave Wilder's

Exotic tiki lounge in AZ.

"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."

by BobbySouthSide on Nov 4, 2011 5:16 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

real cool dude too

Saw him after a game driving down 35th going home and he pulls his caddy over, gets out, walks up to a homeless guy and hands him a wad of cash and pats him on the back and starts talking to him. My 2 year old daughter at the time and I are walking by and he walks over to us and shakes her hand and I tell her to say hi to Minnie. She looks at me and goes, “that’s not minnie mouse!”. We laugh and he leaves. Good guy

"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."

by BobbySouthSide on Nov 4, 2011 5:11 PM CDT via iPhone app reply actions  

Yep. Met him a couple of times, genuine nice guy. In a way, he was the South side's Ernie Banks.

In all respects.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Nov 4, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thome signs 1 year deal with Philly. No terms disclosed, pending physical.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Nov 4, 2011 6:20 PM CDT reply actions  

to complete the reunion tour

The Gentlemen will return to the southside in 2013. Also, coming back in 2013, the UB40 Reunion Tour.

"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."

by BobbySouthSide on Nov 4, 2011 6:30 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Rec'd.

As much as we joke about age around here, I’m pretty sure I can speak for us youngsters when I say that we’re extremely jealous that you got to enjoy watching players such as Minnie.

"On-base percentage is one of the most dangerous concepts of the last seven, eight years." -TLR

by Uribe Down on Nov 5, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

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