Keith Law still cannot admit he was wrong about Chris Sale
by larry on Dec 1, 2011 12:42 PM CST
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PrintESPN's scouting guru published his "Top 50 MLB players age 25 or under". It also included nine more players he considered for the list. No mention of Chris Sale.
Here are some of the pitchers included at the backend of the list, or in the 'also considered': Ivan Nova. Brandon Beachy. Mike Leake. Craig Kimbrel. Mike Minor. Jon Niese.
Now, perhaps this shouldn't be a surprise because Keith Law never was enamored with Sale. Just after the 2010 Draft:
Keith, what are your thoughts on Chris Sale?
Klaw(1:25 PM)
I ranked him 47th. The White Sox took him 13th. You do the math.
Keith, what was your reason for ranking him that low again?
Justin (Aus)
Speaking of the draft… what are your thoughts on Chris Sale’s mechanics? I recently saw a scouting video and, well, ow. It looked like an injury waiting to happen.
Klaw (1:18 PM)
I don’t love the arm action, but this idea that arm action guarantees injury has to die. It’s all probability, and there have been pitchers with subpar mechanics who’ve pitched in the majors for several years before getting hurt, as well as plenty of pitchers with "clean" arm actions who got hurt anyway. Back to Sale, I’m more concerned that he’s a sidearming lefty without much of a breaking ball. If you knew nothing about him but that one sentence, what would you say he was in the big leagues?
This was in accordance with his full pre-draft analysis:
If you like Chris Sale, you see a 6'6" left-hander with an arm slot close to Randy Johnson's, a plus fastball and change, and a potential front-line starter. If you're a skeptic, you see a sidearming lefthander without an average breaking ball and a long arm action that will be tough to repeat 100-plus times an outing. I'm more in the latter camp than the former, and I think Sale's pro future is reasonably likely to come in the bullpen.
He'll sit 92-93 as a starter and has touched 96 a handful of times this spring, with good sink on the pitch that comes from the low slot, helping him generate groundballs. He turns his low-80s changeup over well, surprising given his arm slot, but it's more of an action change that relies on its downward movement and big-league hitters will lay off it when it's out of the zone. He's thrown a loopy curveball and a harder slider, with a better chance to make the slider work from that low slot, but neither is an average pitch and he primarily works with the fastball and change.
His arm action is ugly, long and complex in the back with a high elbow, and he drifts forward in a crouch more commonly seen on sidearmers and submariners. If I did draft him, I'd see if I could raise his slot just enough to get him better angle on the slider and get him to take advantage of his height. His current delivery, slot, and repertoire make him look a lot like a reliever to me.
In that same analysis, he rated Sale's slider as a '40' on his MLB Draft Grading Scale, with a projected future rating of '45'.
And that's where Law royally screwed up. A 40 on that scale translates to "Well below-average ability". A 45 is still below average and translates to "11th/12th men on a pitching staff".
Less than two months after the draft, Sale was in the majors. And his slider all of the sudden became one of the best sliders in baseball. According to Fangraphs, Sale's slider has been the 18th best slider since the beginning of 2010, with a rather ridiculous swing and miss rate of 49 percent (compare to 33 percent average for relievers). And Sale didn't throw a major league pitch until August 6, 2010.
Obviously, Law was wrong. Since it's rather unlikely Law ever saw Sale pitch in person, he got bad information from his contacts. (Coincidentally, BP's Jason Parks published an article today describing the perils of evaluating a player without seeing them in person.)
Of course, since August 6, 2010, one would think Law has seen Sale pitch, at least on TV. And, even if he hasn't, the evidence of how wrong his pre-draft analysis was is both obvious and overwhelming. This is an example of not knowing what the fuck you were talking about in the first place and being stubbornly unable to admit you were wrong. The first isn't a crime, particularly when one person tries to evaluate hundreds of players. The latter is what strains an analyst's credibility. Ten minutes ago:
Do you like Chris Sale's move to the rotation and where do you see him as a future starter?
Klaw (1:35 PM) No, I don't.
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i throughly enjoyed reading this
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Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Dec 1, 2011 12:49 PM CST reply actions
whoops
i thoroughly enjoyed reading this
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 1, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Me too. Thanks, larry.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
Which one of us was supposed to be Keith's mentor again?
It is possible that his stubbornness is borne of a belief that the sample size is too small with Sale (whether or not the size actually is too small)?
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2011 12:55 PM CST reply actions
Small sample size? What about Mike Minor?
Almost same mileage
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Dec 1, 2011 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
SSH
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
walking stereotype of a Carnegie Mellon MBA?
Not one word, but what came to mind.
No surprises here.
Wait until Tdogg sees this.
FKLITA. Really. I cannot stand this fucker.
And today we can celebrate our victory around the pike still skewering the rotten skeleton of The Cheat.
Yep he always admits when he's wrong
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
I realize I'm late to the party, but congrats on the new gig!
Also, what rhubarb said about not accepting a counter offer.
It’s taken years of practice to be such an asshole.
by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2010 10:35 AM PDT
F that clown..... On cue my classic internety fight.
Just realized it. Tdogg and the wrath of Keith Law…….
From Tim’s Q and A with Keith Law. Bad tdogg bad…..
Folks are entitled to their opinion but for me Keith Law loves himself some Keith Law. And ever admitting he was wrong on something is not a strong point. I’m not saying he has nothing to offer but I prefer others
Posted by: tdogg | March 24, 2009 at 04:02 PM
Thank you to those of you who’ve posted kind words. I do appreciate it and I’m glad you enjoyed the Q&A.
tdogg’s comments are emblematic of the anonymity problem. He gets to hide behind an alias while making unsubstantiated claims about me, since he doesn’t actually list some point where I was wrong and refused to admit it. So thanks for providing such a cogent example.
Posted by: Keith Law | March 24, 2009 at 08:19 PM
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
by Tdogg on Dec 1, 2011 1:14 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
i don't think tdogg suffers an anonymity problem in SSS
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 1, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't you tell him you were the guy in the Greg Norman hat?
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
by Chiburb on Dec 1, 2011 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
seriously, keith. just go to one of the many methup pics:
I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.
by thatshortkid on Dec 1, 2011 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 11 recs
Keith Laws comments are emblematic of the internet blogger problem
Give them a blog and they are deemed experts.
Not blogs.
Bloggers.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
They don't like admitting they are wrong
same with lexi, him and Sheehan gave him a right slagging and I’ve not seen either of em say – I got that one wrong.
by hoodlight on Dec 1, 2011 1:23 PM CST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
I enthusiastically embrace the term "slagging".
Thanks, hoodwink.
And today we can celebrate our victory around the pike still skewering the rotten skeleton of The Cheat.
I'm not into giving directions.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
i can't see the list because espn is BS
but where would you put him?
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Top 50 Under 25!
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
On a pedestal.
I mean, really, Ken, when’s the last time we drafted well with our #1 pick and have it pay immediate dividends?
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
no i agree he should be on there obviously.
i’m just wondering where larry would rank him. obviously he’s not in the top 3 (the only 3 i can see because of their insider shit)… but would you slot him top 10? top 25? top 40?
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
holy christ thats not even how you spell his name. not that it matters.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
You are going straight to hell.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
he ranks derek holland #30.
i think that’s a fair ranking for holland. and i like sale and holland about the same. that would probably be the high end of where i’d put him.
Yeah I don't have insider either.
But the list of guys larry mentioned above is pretty laughable. Niese, Leake, etc? That’s a riot.
On a somewhat related topic, I’d certainly rank Leake ahead of Sale in terms of sholifting ability.
Oh would Keith huh?
Casey (Ann Arbor)
Tough Dynasty Keeper question for two starters: Mike Minor or Chris Sale?
Klaw (1:48 PM)
I don’t play fantasy baseball of any sort, but I’d rather have Minor than Sale.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Can we have a "Die Law" akin to "Die Mauer"?
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
Okay.
He must have some sort of tumor.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, that's ridiculous
wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance
by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 1, 2011 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Stupid is as stupid does
Every draft sight had Sale listed as a top six pick except this ignorant turd.When he was available for the Sox at 13 I was flabergasted.
More or less flabbergasted than when the Marlins traded Logan Morrison to the Sox for AJ and Stewart?
by polodude017 on Dec 1, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Only a trap if you don't see it coming.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
Even I have moved on from this meme.
BTW, who moved my cheese?
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
This happens once in a blue moon
Take your middle finger and your thumb and pull the panties out of your ass
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I want both of you to go and listen
to “Someone Like You” by Adele. Now.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
Isn't that by Rod Stewart?
;)
It’s taken years of practice to be such an asshole.
by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2010 10:35 AM PDT
Adele who?
Taking music recommendations from OPOS’ usually ends up with me staring at the bottom of a 10th pint.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Effin kids
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
what's an adele?
I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.
by thatshortkid on Dec 1, 2011 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would have suggested 'Turning Tables'
But to each their own.
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 1, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
you're both wrong
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
Then, I regret my indescretions
but cannot quite say I am sorry. Status quo acheived?
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
i never understood a pathological inability to admit an error.
because it’s borne out of a fear of looking stupid, right? but then the person doing it just looks like a even bigger idiot by not acknowledging it. people make me upset.
by obnoxious american on Dec 1, 2011 1:53 PM CST reply actions
Perhaps a fear of losing superficial credibility, and therefore mainstream readers, that would jeopardize a paid position in competitive field.
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
great stuff, larry
when law isn’t tweeting self-righteously about being a foodie, he’s holding fast to extreme opinions. no nuance allowed.
he does not know what an orange pie is, I can guarantee that
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Can you really trust the word "nuance"?
“Gesture”. Now there’s a word you can trust.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
Settle down kids
The way I feel about Keith Law and his gig at ESPN is exactly the way I feel about the kids who win at the Special Olympics but I don’t hate the Special Olympics…that is the only difference.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
what if a special olympics kid was terrible at special olympics, got kicked out, and then became a smarmy, know-it-all special olympics announcer/expert?
Would you hate him then?
Dave Martinez woulda had that.
Rhubarb disclaiming hating anything
is specious. Wait until he has a cocktail or 3. He hates everything.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
I came here to hate on three things: movies, twain and OPOS'
and there isn’t any movies or twain left.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
by Rhubarb on Dec 1, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Gold. Absolute gold.
It’s taken years of practice to be such an asshole.
by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2010 10:35 AM PDT
B-b-but... from two hours ago:
Players change. My evaluations need to change with them.
by Jim Margalus on Dec 1, 2011 2:09 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I'd be curious to know what his exact thought on Sale are right now.
While the quotes above are somewhat laughable, they did happen quite a while ago (right after the draft). I could see him being nervous about Sale transitioning to the rotation (I think we all are to some extent), but to completely deny the talent that is backed up by both stats and visual observation would just be assanine. The breaking ball is clearly there and he hasn’t had problems with any of his pitches from that arm slot, so I don’t really think those are concerns anymore.
And yeah I've never really liked Law.
Sickels is VERY high on Sale’s move to the rotation, and I put a lot more stock in his opinions than Law’s.
So Sale's "long" save record
doesn’t translate well to a starter extrapolation?
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
eh, Sale must have dicked his dog
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
by Rhubarb on Dec 1, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It's this stubborn know-it-all attitude that got him fired from the Blue Jays.
He’s a punch line in their front office.
by Bent Over Beckham on Dec 1, 2011 3:13 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Thought it was a screen shot that trumped all.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
Rec'd for what I hope is an Apples to Apples reference.
"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson
Or what didn't happen?
That the Blue Jays let him go is no secret. He rubbed everybody the wrong way, and eventually Ricciardi had enough. They’re not going to say its was he was an asshole on a press release. I doubt they even had one. He was an unknown at that time. And I know because I worked with the Blue Jays for a period of time and know many front office members. He’s not taken very seriously.
by Bent Over Beckham on Dec 1, 2011 3:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This screams out for....
restraint.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
You worked for the Blue Jays? What's Cito Gaston like?
I always imagined him to be like a latin Morgan Freeman.
Second question, is Cito Gaston latin?
by joewho112 on Dec 1, 2011 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Only met him once, so I can't say for sure.
Seemed nice enough. Quiet guy.
by Bent Over Beckham on Dec 1, 2011 3:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The one time you met him did he say, "Get business living or get busy dying, senor"?
by joewho112 on Dec 1, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish
I got a bunch of old guy to young guy cliches about hard work. He talks like a manager.
by Bent Over Beckham on Dec 1, 2011 3:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Maldito recto
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
always wondered how things would've turned out if the sox hired him instead of ozzie.
by obnoxious american on Dec 1, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
who?
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
cito.
morgan never would have played mackowiak.
by obnoxious american on Dec 1, 2011 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
ahhh, I was trying to be funny :)
As in, “Who’s Ozzy?” Jokes aren’t funny if you have to ’splain them.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
now I'm wondering how things would've turned out had the sox hired Morgan Freeman
Probably have the sage-est team in the league
They probably would have got busy winning
Or got busy dying trying.
by Bent Over Beckham on Dec 1, 2011 8:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
Can we stop saying this when something is a fact?
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
MEME FIGHT! MEME FIGHT!
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
you started it by allowing craig to _____ you
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Sigh.
Such a silly boy. Please go place someone in a job they will keep for 9 months.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
My guarantee's are 30 days biotch, day 31 comes and I place them somewhere else
at least that is what most people think we do. If I get the idea someone is about to accept a job that they won’t be at for longer than a year, I tell my clients to pull the offer.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
the press release meme keeps JRE rotten black heart beating
so no, we cannot.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
by colintj on Dec 1, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rays sign RHP Jhonny Nunez to minors deal.
https://twitter.com!/eddymk/status/142383555081805824
and so the last remaining piece of the swisher trade departs. keep in mind, swisher still has a year remaining on his below market deal.
wholly unnecessary.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
by BuehrleMan on Dec 1, 2011 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Set your parameters for decent.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
larry
Obviously larry is the man when it comes to info on mlb and the sox, my question is how did you get so damn knowledgeable?
It is getting to the point where I just scroll to see what larry says so I have a damn clue on what to think.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Dec 1, 2011 6:00 PM CST via mobile reply actions
oh whatever. larry doesn't know jack shit. he's the one who said tony larussa isn't a good manager.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 1, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
But he isn't. It's just that Ron Washington is worse.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
by Chiburb on Dec 1, 2011 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And that still leaves him at least ten times smarter about baseball than me… I’m all struggles!
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Dec 1, 2011 6:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He also discovered you and brought you to the big leagues.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 1, 2011 7:46 PM CST up reply actions
Ha, that’s exactly what I was thinking!
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Dec 1, 2011 6:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I see larry has been mentoring you.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
worst thing you could ever do
"Rhubarb, if you wouldn’t mind, ram your taint into your monitor as hard as you can." - joewho112
Leaving Sale off his list is asinine.
And Sale’s slider is way better than he ever claimed it to be. Yet, Sale hasn’t transitioned to the big league rotation yet, so in some small way, KLaw hasn’t been wrong. He’s not right either, he’s just not wrong in that one small regard.
Because of that, I imagine he won’t come out and say he was wrong or put Sale in any meaningful list until Sale proves he can survive the rotation.
Yep, will sale's slider be as devastating after 6 innings? The more people see it too?
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
That could be true,,,
the more people see it (the slider) the more likely they will get used to it and adapt to it…yet…I have to wonder about Mariano who seems to throw basically two pitches yet hitters keep getting befuddled despite of knowing what’s coming.
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Dec 1, 2011 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
yes but Mariano is also a reliever
would he be effective as a starter as well? that is the question. I think Sale will be fine, although obviously his bullpen numbers will inflate as should be expected for all transitioned starters
NAOPOS
he doesn't have to show it that often, he has other pitches.
mariano is a special case. like koufax. you can know what is coming without being able to do a thing about it.
I would be more worried about his drop in velocity and fatigue than going through the lineup more than once.
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 1, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure the Don Cooper Dream Machine is all over that.
Didn’t I read somewhere that he would be capped at 150 or 175 IP? It’d be nice to have a robust bullpen and spot starters around to compliment his development as a starter. Of course, that assumes we have a contender on our hands.
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
That is what I was positing
Both fatigue and people seeing him
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
it's been studied
the typical drop in K% is 17%. BB stay flat.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
Why does it happen though?
Is it all due to fatigue or do hitters get more comfortable at the plate having seen more of him through the course of a game, a season? I like statistical studies and all but the sociology why is what i am most interested in. My guess is you would argue fatigue 100% since you cannot quantify the other? Also, cant the number be more or less than 17%? that has to be the mean right? I am sure the BB% moves up and down in some circumstances?
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
that's a whole other can of worms
i’d link you to the Tango threads, but i can’t find them atm for some friggin reason.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
from what i remember
the difference in sheer velocity between starting and relieving isn’t enough to explain the actual difference in runs allowed. i think movement and times through the lineup do a lot of that explaining. i’m pretty sure there have been studies that looked at those starters that transitioned from relief in the first inning, but i don’t remember if they were conclusive.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
it's not really fatigue per se.
relievers usually pitch one inning or less, starters usually pitch four innings or more. starters have to pace themselves. relievers do not. it’s more approach. and then there’s the familiarity issue. and some other things, too.
yah i would think that the more a batter sees a pitcher
the more likely he is to lay off of that 3-2 slider or whatever the case may be.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
I suspect even if Sale has an outstanding year as a starter
Law will focus any praise on Cooper, and how he turned Sale into a whole new pitcher. This way he can save face. He won’t admit he was wrong.
by Bent Over Beckham on Dec 1, 2011 8:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Agree.
He evaluated the slider poorly, but considering Sale hasn’t started a game in the majors or even the minors, the jury is still out on his capability to start. Hopefully he proves law wrong and is an effective starter, but weren’t there more than a few besides Law who had him pegged as having a high probability of being a reliever? Why else would a lefty starter throwing in the high 90s still be around at the 13th pick otherwise?
people questioned his lack of a third pitch
and his throwing motion, iirc.
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 1, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
let's change law's analysis to reflect what the reality was in june of 2010, using his own grading system.
Sale is a lefty with a plus fastball, a plus – possibly plus plus – breaking ball and an above average changeup. If you knew nothing about him but that one sentence, what would you say he was in the big leagues?
did you read what i wrote?
he ranked him 47th in the 2010 draft. i’m not going to belabor things by going through all 46 ahead of him. but one is also in the white sox organization. jake petricka. that is representative of the assclownery.
Heath Bell signed for 3 years 27 million with the Marlins.
Thornton is a bargain.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
I am liking this ridiculous relief pitching market.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
wow it also includes a vesting option for a 4th year.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
9 millions a year for a top closer
I don’t think is all that bad. How many games did the WhiteSox lost because of relievers implosions last year? There was a nice article Jim M posted here about the WhiteSox having one of the worse records in losing games when leading in the 9th inning. Valverde is an ugly closer, but he got the job done last year….somehow he did…
Bell still will be making less of K-Rod was making or what Francisco Cordero or Brad Lidge are making and that is overpaying.
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Dec 2, 2011 5:56 AM CST up reply actions
Cordero does not currently have a contract
and I seriously doubt he gets anything approaching $27 million. But then again, the market for relievers is pretty crazy.
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
Lidge doesn't either.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
9 million just barely might be fair for Mariano
and thats partially only because the yankees can afford any player. in reality no bullpen pitcher should be paid 9 million. especially overrated ones, which a good deal of closers are.
NAOPOS
Bell is a declining overpaid closer moving away from the friendliest pitching park in the majors.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
by U-God on Dec 1, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Miami's going to be pretty pitcher friendly
by Jim Margalus on Dec 1, 2011 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
oh my
that’s the first I’ve seen of the park dimensions
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 1, 2011 10:33 PM CST up reply actions
Petco Park, for comparison
334-367-401-396-400-382-322
by Jim Margalus on Dec 1, 2011 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
That is ridiculous
If Buehrle has any thoughts in his head about trying to build some sort of HOF resume, going to the NL and pitching in that park sounds pretty damn good.
Wow. That may be really pitcher friendly.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
There don't appear to be any outrageous fence heights
And the ball might be able to carry well in that climate, but, yeah, Bell shouldn’t have any dimensional problems.
by Jim Margalus on Dec 1, 2011 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Why would any hitter want to go there?
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
its miami not detroit.
i don’t think they’ll have a difficult time luring players if they are making competitive offers.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
But we wanna see the dolphins jumping!
Are you telling me I bought 81 tabs of acid and moved to Miami for nothing?
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
by Uribe Down on Dec 2, 2011 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
there is also a big difference between 27+ option and 12
and bell is just about the same age as thornton is. all i’m saying is thornton’s contract is looking a lot less scary
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Has Keith Law admitted
he was wrong on Brett Wallace being an impact bat yet?
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 2, 2011 12:10 AM CST reply actions
I can also pass along this little tidbit.
Keith Law used to provide a scouting report book to Ricciardi about the most relevant amateur draftees. He advised against drafting some HS kid named John Danks because he threw a lot of curveballs, and thus was more of an injury risk than high school pitchers already were. The Jays wouldn’t have had the chance to take Danks anyways, but it was funny to look over his booklets. He was wrong more than you would expect the average “scout” to be, and for some pretty hilarious reasons. He also was a big proponent of the Blue Jays grabbing the elusive Russell Adams ahead of some dud named Scott Kazmir. I mean…Kazmir was a high school pitcher, right? No chance for success. He was an absolute failure.
by Bent Over Beckham on Dec 2, 2011 12:58 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
This quote from his Wikipedia basically sums him up.
“In December 2007, Law was denied admission to the Baseball Writers Association of America, members of whom vote for Baseball Hall of Fame candidates and several annual awards including the Most Valuable Player and Cy Young Award.7 While 16 other internet baseball columnists were admitted in their first year of eligibility, ESPN’s Law and Rob Neyer were refused due to the BBWAA’s perception that Law and Neyer did not attend enough games in person”
They’re not scouts. They pretend to be.
by Billy Ray Durham on Dec 2, 2011 1:27 AM CST reply actions
Ronald Witt Illinois, Dont ruin him by making him a releiever
Ronad H. Witt
by Ronald H. Witt on Dec 2, 2011 3:16 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Ronald H. Witt Illinois
Ronad H. Witt
by Ronald H. Witt on Dec 2, 2011 3:16 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
The "H" is for 'half'.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
by Chiburb on Dec 2, 2011 7:26 AM CST up reply actions 11 recs
"Nit".
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
by winningugly on Dec 2, 2011 7:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
My name is.....
The mic rula
The old schoolah
You wanna trip? I’ll bring it to ya
Frylock and I’m on top rock you like a cop
Meatwad you up next with your knock knock
Meatwad make the money see
Meatwad get the honeys G
Drivin in my car livin like a star
Ice on my fingers and my toes and I’m a taurus
Cause we are the Aqua teens
Make the homies say OH and the girlies wanna scream
Cause we are the Aqua teens
Make the homies say OH and the girlies wanna scream
Aqua Teen Hunger Force number 1 in the hood G
Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969
His profile is what makes it art.
by South Side Expat on Dec 2, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
in a matter of one minute, he's done more to set back internet usage i thought imaginable.
the first one is like he’s writing himself a letter, though the inclusion of illinois is a mystery to me. reliever is a mess.
he’s got a typo in his signature, which is bad, but the signature is just his name, which makes it particularly failish.
and then he adds a reply fail to complete it with nothing but his name 3 times, one a typo. and of course, illinois.
if he’s anywhere between 13 and 80 years old, this is a dark day for mankind.
i did rec it though.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 2, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
or is he asking himself not to ruin chris sale by making him a reliever? does he have that power?
but it still doesn’t make sense, because sale has already been made a reliever and now they’re going to turn him back into a starter.
is it like a letter to his local illinois congressman, except that he’s his own local congressman? but even then that decision wouldn’t fall under his jurisdiction, would it?
maybe it’s a back to the future thing and he came back to warn himself about making him a reliever.
i think i’m gonna go lie down for a little while.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 2, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
this is the funniest thread I've seen on here all year
by hoodlight on Dec 2, 2011 1:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
i was just going to say
i really hope this exchange doesn’t get missed by anyone.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
by BuehrleMan on Dec 2, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
there's no need to insult children here.
that is one bizarre dude.
by obnoxious american on Dec 2, 2011 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
I wanted the website in his profile to be a real thing so badly.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
by U-God on Dec 2, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
that sequence of comments is terrifying
by jimmyjr on Dec 2, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
perhaps the most:
In the end everyone will know how good I am.
by obnoxious american on Dec 2, 2011 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
Holy Hell-
http://ronaldwitt.blogspot.com/
http://ronald-h-witt.blogspot.com/
http://ronaldwitt.blogspot.com/
http://woweewowee.blogspot.com/
http://wittwittwitt.blogspot.com/
by South Side Expat on Dec 2, 2011 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The guy knows how to leave a mark:
http://nrn.com/article/former-cheesecake-factory-president-moves-coopers-hawk
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
by Uribe Down on Dec 2, 2011 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The man cannot be stopped.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/food/sns-food-recipes-fruity-rye-bread,0,3717648.story
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
is it the work of a inept spammer, maybe?
Poor programming or testing, and it comes out jibberish-y?
OTOH, it could be brilliant viral marketing. Maybe he’s a personal injury lawyer, or he’s got a new line of exercise videos. A new flavor of Gatorade? When his real ads start running, everyone will already know who Ronald H. Witt is.
Dave Martinez woulda had that.
And where he's from.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
But he's actually made comments related to the Sox, Bears and Hawks.
So who knows. I think he’s 47 and from Wheeling.
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
this
I thought it was going to take me to his yahoo profile or something
NAOPOS
by blackoutsox on Dec 2, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hmmm
somehow I forgot to put in the first line which is Shake-Zula the Mic rula. REPLY FIAL!
Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969
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