Another time Robin Ventura got fired up

by Jim Margalus on Dec 11, 2011 6:01 AM CST in White Sox History

Everybody has seen Robin Ventura charge the mound against Nolan Ryan. Everybody knows it doesn't go as well as he would have hoped.

But there's another good story about a vengeful Ventura that's worth mentioning, and one I haven't seen mentioned since he took over as manager.

I found it while looking up articles about Ventura's comeback from his gruesome ankle injury in 1997 for White Sox Outsider 2012, among a few other pleasant reads (I didn't know that Ibis Guillen had a plane fly over Comiskey Park with a congratulatory streamer during his first game back, for instance).

Ventura didn't care for the White Flag Trade, since it took place a week after he'd returned to the lineup. And, by all accounts, he busted his ass to get back into the lineup. He especially did not care for Jerry Reinsdorf's infamous "crazy" quote.

So he decided to do something about it.

In an article titled "Fire sale, ankle pain Ventura" in the Chicago Sun-Times on Aug. 26, 1997, Joe Goddard writes (emphasis mine):

Ventura tried to counter ownership's moves last week by having T-shirts prepared for his remaining teammates that read "Chicago Leftovers" on one side and "Maybe We're Just Dumb Enough to Win This" on the other. [...]

Ventura was particularly puzzled when chairman Jerry Reinsdorf made his now infamous remark that people would have to be "crazy" to think the team at the time was capable of catching the Indians.

"To me, it was unacceptable," Ventura said. "It doesn't matter what context he said it in, it was still unacceptable."

Thus, the T-shirts.

"I'm trying to make something positive out of something negative," said Ventura , who's batting .308 with 12 RBI in 27 games since his return. "The whole thing was so negative at the time. The media is still negative about it.

"That's why I thought something different would help. Right now, it's working. We're almost as close as we were when we made the trades (third place, 4 1/2 games behind)."

Obviously, it didn't work. But reading it was heartening, because Ozzie Guillen's tendency to talk up opponents -- team or individuals -- never really seemed to benefit the White Sox. Which is why I laughed when I saw that Ron Gardenhire said he's going to miss Guillen in the AL Central.

It's still unclear what Ventura can bring to the table as the manager, but if he can bottle up the inspiration behind mound-charging and the indignation behind the "Chicago Leftovers" t-shirt, he'll have addressed Guillen's biggest flaw as a leader. It will be far tougher to replicate what Guillen did well, but this would be a nice first step.

Robin Ventura and Texas

When Opening Day rolls around, the Texas Rangers will have played a role in four huge moments of Ventura's career:

Charging the mound against Ryan on Aug. 4, 1993.
His two-grand-slam game on Sept. 4, 1995.
Driving in the winning run with a double in his first game back from his ankle injury on July 24, 1997.
Managing his first game on April 6, 2012.

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Comments

Great read.

Maybe still waters run deep. Let’s let the kid lead.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 11, 2011 7:17 AM CST via mobile reply actions

When they announced Ventura as manager I was very disappointed, but the closer we get to the season the more and more it has been growing on me. I definitely thought they should have went with one of the young coaches already on a MLB bench, but if Ventura is the right guy then why not bring him in now and learn on the job? Kind of like the different philosophies on a NFL qb, do you throw him in there like Peyton Manning or let him sit for a year or two and learn like Aaron Rodgers… I hope it is a fun season!

GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!

by hoosier3 on Dec 11, 2011 7:48 AM CST via mobile reply actions

I'll remain optimistic until the first time he trots AD out in the field against an AL opponent

or bats Toe Boat in the three, four, or five slot

White Sox 2012: Helplessly rebuilding?

by greenlight on Dec 11, 2011 9:31 AM CST reply actions

What is toe boat? I know he has a fucked up toe but why? Why?

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 11, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions

there was speculation at some point last season that injured toe had slowed coverage in the outfield,

hence, slow boat —> slow boat to China —> Toe Boat to China —> Toe Boat

one cannot employ logic in trying to figure these things out

White Sox 2012: Helplessly rebuilding?

by greenlight on Dec 11, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions

embrace the intuitive elegance of Sand Dancer, greenlight

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 11, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs

in that garfien interview i posted yesterday... they bring up a story where ventura was playing in LA

and there was a huge clubhouse blowup and ventura stepped in and set things straight… jim tracy said if there was any player that could lead a clubhouse as manager its ventura.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 11, 2011 9:55 AM CST reply actions

September 4, 1995

That’s one sexy lineup. Too bad the mid to late 90’s Sox had no pitching.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 11, 2011 9:59 AM CST reply actions

And Bevington.

Who can forget Bevington.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 11, 2011 9:59 AM CST up reply actions

we can all try

brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight

by whitesoxmatt on Dec 11, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions

agreed

Don’t mention that name, gives me a headache.

by bevingtonsTallBoy on Dec 13, 2011 7:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

I am just glad that I wasn't able to really understand what a terrible manager he was during his tenure

by 815Sox on Dec 11, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions

Ventura learning curve

Robin is remembered for great defense but out of school his defense was substandard.
He realized the need to get better and became great at it.He was drafted for his bat but soon found that the swing he used in college was not going to work in the pros.(Brian Anderson)
So he completely rebuilt his swing.
He is a man of principle that people can look up to.At the same time very open minded toward getting better everyday.
I think the White Sox fans will enjoy his stewardship.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 11, 2011 10:36 AM CST reply actions

My favorite Ventura moment also involves Texas . . .

On July 31, 1991, he hit a grand slam with two outs in the bottom of the ninth off Goose Gossage to beat the Rangers 10-8. It also happened in those innocent days when I didn’t have cable and listened to the game on the radio (while ironing a shirt for work the next day as I recall); nobody referred to it as a “walk-off” either.

by VAChisox on Dec 11, 2011 11:13 AM CST reply actions

We were apparnetly discussing Quentin with the Blue Jays.

KW does realize he can trade with other teams, right?

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 11, 2011 12:17 PM CST reply actions

You go to the well that brought you Zach Stewart until you are certain it is dry.

And then you go one more time.

by WSO on Dec 11, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs

Goldstein tweet:

Yes. Best college arm in ’10 draft. RT @Hard_8: @Kevin_Goldstein do you envision success for the starting pitcher version of Chris Sale?

http://twitter.com/Kevin_Goldstein/status/145943787003318272

Twitter: @JimMargalus

by Jim Margalus on Dec 11, 2011 1:13 PM CST reply actions

This is actually one thing I'm incredibly happy about.

Now that we don’t have to deal with Ozzie orgasming about the how the Twins do baseball way better than anyone else, hopefully the plague it’s spread through the organization will diminish. Hawk included. I hope Robin puts that to an end.

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Dec 11, 2011 2:13 PM CST reply actions

So why didn't Ventura follow through and print the t-shirts?

clearly he’s all talk!

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 11, 2011 2:43 PM CST reply actions

He did.

Bevington wore one.

Twitter: @JimMargalus

by Jim Margalus on Dec 11, 2011 3:42 PM CST up reply actions

oh, ok.

wasn’t clear from the excerpt above whether he actually had them made or just publicly joked about having them made.

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 11, 2011 4:38 PM CST up reply actions

I just learned recently

that I’m going to get the opportunity to meet Ventura at work. Maybe I’ll ask him about those Chicago Leftover shirts.

by normanje13 on Dec 11, 2011 3:11 PM CST reply actions

please be gentle when you ask him to turn his head and cough

White Sox 2012: Helplessly rebuilding?

by greenlight on Dec 11, 2011 3:32 PM CST up reply actions

That would be cool

If you get something out of it, let us know.

Twitter: @JimMargalus

by Jim Margalus on Dec 11, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions

I definitely will.

At minimum, I’m hoping for the autograph and a picture. If I can engage him in any conversation, I’ll retell via a fanpost.

by normanje13 on Dec 11, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions

Milwaukee Brewers’ star outfielder Ryan Braun’s original test for performance-enhancing drugs as the playoffs were winding down in October was “insanely high, the highest ever for anyone who has ever taken a test, twice the level of the highest test ever taken,” said a source familiar with the developing case

by larry on Dec 11, 2011 3:49 PM CST reply actions

so does that mean that he's a really awful cheat,

or that the test went loopy?

by craigws on Dec 11, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions

from the info currently available, the latter seems likely.

boxcars boxcars boxcars

by soxshenanigans on Dec 11, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions

no. that seems unlikely.

and, as the article linked says, that’s not what they’re going to say. the ratio test, even if “insanely high”, is not a positive test. that is merely a trigger for the second test to determine if synthetic testosterone is the cause. they found synthetic in the second test. that is the positive test.

by larry on Dec 11, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions

It says that his second test was positive

The test showed highly elevated levels of testosterone, according to the source, and was then sent to the World Anti-Doping Agency lab in Montreal for a more sophisticated test known as a carbon isotope test (CIR) or isotope ratio mass spectrometry (IRMS), which revealed that the levels were caused by exogenous or synthetic testosterone.

Plus, I doubt the “spiked supplement” argument is going to work anymore. Most of them have been regulated now.

by 815Sox on Dec 11, 2011 7:48 PM CST up reply actions

The FDA is nowhere even close to regulating all the supplements available.

That crap is a snake oil salesman’s wet dream.

by U-God on Dec 11, 2011 8:28 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, I dunno what 815 means.

this is the FDA’s explanation of the DSHEA:

FDA regulates both finished dietary supplement products and dietary ingredients under a different set of regulations than those covering “conventional” foods and drug products (prescription and Over-the-Counter). Under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA), the dietary supplement or dietary ingredient manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that a dietary supplement or ingredient is safe before it is marketed. FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement product after it reaches the market. Generally, manufacturers do not need to register their products with FDA nor get FDA approval before producing or selling dietary supplements.* Manufacturers must make sure that product label information is truthful and not misleading. Under the FDA Final Rule 21 CFR 111, all domestic and foreign companies that manufacture, package, label or hold dietary supplement, including those involved with testing, quality control, and dietary supplement distribution in the U.S., must comply with the Dietary Supplement Current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMPS) for quality control. In addition, the manufacturer, packer, or distributor whose name appears on the label of a dietary supplement marketed in the United States is required to submit to FDA all serious adverse event reports associated with use of the dietary supplement in the United States.

The reality is supplements are loosely scrutinized and even more loosely regulated.

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 11, 2011 9:23 PM CST up reply actions

there seems to be quite a bit of conflicting information out there.

but it appears to me at this point that the primary defense is going to be that he didn’t know and, most importantly for this because the tests are strict liability, shouldn’t have known that whatever caused this positive test contained a banned substance. could be the “i used one of the approved supplements and, holy shit, it was straight testosterone” or “the team doctor injected me with something” or “i was banging chicks by the car load right before the test” or any number of other things.

by larry on Dec 11, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions

to add some context about "insanely high", from a guy who knows a thing or two about doping and drug tests:

I’ve seen T/E ratios of 39 to 1 and 24 to 1. Landis had an 11 to 1 RT @SouthSidelarry: what’s the highest ratio you’ve seen?

https://twitter.com/VictorConte/status/146003208328843265

by larry on Dec 11, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions

on a related topic

do you think 15 months for a single count of obstruction is a reasonable request from prosecutors in the bonds case?

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 11, 2011 6:55 PM CST up reply actions

no.

it looks like they want to reargue the perjury charges with the judge and have the sentence be a sub rosa punishment for that. i think he perjured himself and i have very little sympathy for perjurors. but that’s not what the jury found him guilty of. jail or prison time would be pretty unusual for this. and it’s usual for a judge to generally accept what the probation office recommends for sentences so i think that recommendation is about what he’ll get.

by larry on Dec 12, 2011 2:16 AM CST up reply actions