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CAIRO projections and the 2012 White Sox

"Your team will suck!"

The extremely early CAIRO projections are out. CAIRO has a better track record than the simple Marcel projections but not quite as good as some of the other projection systems. And this was its projected 2012 AL Central standings:

Tigers 89 73
Indians 87 75
White Sox 77 85
Royals 73 89
Twins 66 96

These projected standings aren't worth a lot because it's early in the offseason and rosters change. But I thought I'd see if the Computer was doing anything crazy and calculate my own projection for the 2012 White Sox based on CAIRO's invidual player projections.

I generally stuck with the playing time estimates by CAIRO. The only one I changed was Chris Sale because he's projected as a relief pitcher. After the jump, you can see the assumptions and projections and judge for yourself.

Star-divide

Pitcher Projections

Pitchers IP WAR
Gavin Floyd 188 3.1
Jake Peavy 98 1.4
John Danks 155 2.9
Chris Sale 130 2.0
Philip Humber 92 0.7
Jesse Crain 66 1.3
Matt Thornton 65 1.1
Addison Reed 43 0.6
Jason Frasor 62 1.0
Will Ohman 49 0.5
Zach Stewart 109 -0.2
Gregory Infante
55 -0.4
Dylan Axelrod 90 1.2

Add it up and you get 1202 IP, which is about 250 IP short of a full season. I assumed replacement level for the remaining innings.

Pitcher WAR: 15.2 WAR

Star-divide

Position Player Projections

Now on to the hitters. Obviously, there's currently a bit of a logjam in the outfield. I assumed that Carlos Quentin would be the one to go. However, if you want to include him instead of another outfielder, his WAR was 1.6 in 563 PA. I also don't think the last bench player is currently with the White Sox so I have put in a replacement level placeholder. Note that these projections are inclusive of defense.

Hitters PA WAR
A.J. Pierzynski
459 1.5
Paul Konerko
622 2.5
Gordon Beckham
523 1.2
Alexei Ramirez
633 2.8
Brent Morel
340 0.3
Alejandro De Aza
236 0.9
Alex Rios
614 1.5
Dayan Viciedo
321 0.5
Adam Dunn
599 1.1
Tyler Flowers
233 1.2
Ozzie Martinez
283 0.5
Brent Lillibridge
197 0.2
Fourth bench player
150 0.0

Add it up and you get 5210 PA, which is about 900 short of a full season. Again, I assumed replacement level for the remaining plate appearances.

Position Player WAR: 14.2 WAR.

Star-divide

Bottom Line

So let's add it up for a win total. A replacement level team is expected to have 48.6 wins. Add the 15.2 pitcher WAR and 14.2 position player WAR and we get 78 wins, or 1 more win than CAIRO projected.

Star-divide

Let's Play the Adjustment Game

I'm sure there are plenty of people reading this that are taking issue with these projections. Don't kill me, I'm just the messenger (who hopefully didn't screw up any math; it's late at night). There are some assumptions here that one could reasonably say are shortchanging the White Sox. There are some others that you can perhaps a bit less reasonably say, if things go better than expected, the White Sox will be much better than this projection. Let's go over a few of each that could have a significant effect on the win total.

In terms of both projected playing time and performance, Phil Humber is one guy that you look at and say, did last season not happen? And CAIRO responds, did the five prior seasons not happen? Obviously Humber had a breakout season in 2011. If you think that breakout was a new performance level, those innings should probably be upped to around the 163 IP he had last season. He was worth 3-3.5 WAR last season, so you may also want to up that WAR projection, too. If you do that, you'll probably be tacking on 2 wins. So we're at 80 wins.

The other starting pitcher you might look at is Jake Peavy. Sure, he's averaged just a bit more than 100 IP the last three seasons, but maybe you think this is the year he finally is healthy for most of the season. So maybe tack on 60 IP to that projection. And you also think that WAR projection understates what Peavy will do. So maybe you want to tack on 2 WAR to that projection. So now we're at 82 wins.

On the position player side, I know Tdogg is out there screaming about Alexei Ramirez's projection. According to fWAR, he was worth 4.9 WAR in 2011. bWAR is a bit less impressed but you're optimistic so you'll ignore that and say that he'll play like he did last season. So maybe you want to tack on 2 WAR to his projection. And now we're at 84 wins.

Another guy Tdogg will be screaming about is Alejandro De Aza. Both fWAR and bWAR had him worth more than 2 WAR in just 171 PA last season. There isn't anyone who thinks he can keep up that pace over a full season but you think that projection shortchanges him. You also think that PA projection is wrong because you don't think de Aza will be part time and you think he'll manage to stay relatively injury free, like he did in 2011 for the first time in his career. So you up those PA to 550 and up that WAR to an above average player, say, 2.5 WAR. And now we're at 85.6 wins.

Dayan Viciedo's projection makes him look like he's not quite the guy you thought he was given all the hype about him last season. You can't believe this top prospect would only get 321 PA and be worth a half a win. So double those PA to 600 and make him an above average player, too, at 2.5 WAR. Things are looking pretty good now: 87.6 wins.

You're also an optimist about both Alex Rios and Adam Dunn and think that both will return to being above average players. You don't want to be seen as too crazy so you think they'll both be 2.5 WAR players. So tack on 1 WAR to Rios and 1.4 WAR to Dunn. And now it's a division-winning 90 win team.

I'm sure there are those out there who want to keep going, adding a win to Brent Morel or a win to Brent Lillibridge and so on. Obviously, I've just outlined a crazy optimistic, nothing goes wrong season with some surprise performances (Dylan Axelrod and Tyler Flowers worth 1.2 WAR each?). The pessimists out there could do something similar to what I did: John Danks is traded away, Dunn and Rios play more like last season, no breakout performances, injuries to a couple key performers, another key performer has a terrible season and on down the line until the White Sox are a 70 win team.

So have at it, optimists, pessimists, realists and everyone else. Is the early offseason Computer right, wrong to the negative or wrong to the positive?

Comment 68 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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The prospect of about 1 win combined out of Jake Peavy and Zach Stewart is scary.

I don’t disagree with it, but yeesh.

White Sox Talk: She needs premium, dude! PREMIUUUUM! DUUUUUDE!

by UribeAuction on Dec 16, 2011 12:55 AM CST reply actions  

how often are the cairo projections right, say +/- 3 games?

just seems like there is potential for a tremendous amount of variance there, as you suggested.
or is this white sox team just less predictable than the usual?

by craigws on Dec 16, 2011 12:57 AM CST reply actions  

Even with that +/-5

The optimist puts them at 90 as you said, so if Detroit is a push, it’s still not a Division winner. The larger point, the Sox don’t just need good luck on their side next season, they need back luck from Detroit. But maybe that’s just being pessimistic.

by ParisSox on Dec 16, 2011 6:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Then again

the optimist in me says it’s better to hope for bad luck from Detroit than say from the Yankees.

by ParisSox on Dec 16, 2011 6:51 AM CST up reply actions  

With the Sox current team 77-85 doesn’t seem too far off. Dunn and Rios are the keys, if they perform to their averages than the record could be flipped to 85-77. With some luck in other areas, the Sox have an outside chance at the division, but as of now, a lot of luck is needed.

by AJP13237 on Dec 16, 2011 1:11 AM CST reply actions  

Do I have to?

1. LHP John Danks to Washington Nationals for RHP Brad Peacock and OF Destin Hood
2. 2B Gordon Beckham to San Francisco Giants for RHP Heath Hembree, LHP Eric Surkamp and IF Ehire Adrianza
3. OF Carlos Quentin to Atlanta Braves for RHP Kris Medlen and RHP J.J. Hoover
4. RHP Gavin Floyd to Pittsburgh Pirates for OF Starling Marte and LHP Daniel Moskos
5. C A.J. Pierzynski to Tampa Bay Rays for RHP Jacob Thompson

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 16, 2011 6:48 AM CST up reply actions  

i'd keep beckham.

id do the floyd one right now if i could.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 16, 2011 8:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you high on Marte?

Reminds me a lot of a young Alex Rios. Not sure if that’s a good thing or not.

by polodude017 on Dec 16, 2011 9:08 AM CST up reply actions  

i think its a pretty good thing

rios had to do something to earn that contract.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 16, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions  

and i am not really reminded of rios with him.

but marte is developing nicely. always has a high average and now the power is starting to come along. he doesn’t walk much… but i don’t care about that really. i like some dominican hackers. in fact that may be my next fantasy baseball team name.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 16, 2011 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

really? i think adding floyd could go a long way for them.

he’d immediately hop up to the top of their rotation… adding floyd and bedard could give them some decent starting depth. they have a good young lineup and have a decent back end of the bullpen. if they added floyd they’d finish .500 for the first time in 20 years. i think thats a step they’d love to take.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 16, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I guess if .500 is the goal, then that makes sense.

I just know if I was rooting for that team, I wouldn’t be looking to give up the talented youngsters I had for a shot at finishing .500.

by polodude017 on Dec 16, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

they've had talented youngsters for the last 10 years though.

sooner or later they have to get to .500

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 16, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Always liked Medlen...

but I’m not confident in his health.

by polodude017 on Dec 16, 2011 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

apparently ehire adrianza is guillen's cousin?
oguillenjr Ozzie Guillen Jr
#whitesox lol espn article today saying would trade my cousin for a beckham trade. Thought up all hated us.

by the way.. i’m kind of disappointed in ozzie jr. he’s falling in line with the rest of the guillen strokes lately.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 16, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

thought up all hated us?

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 16, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

its early he's probably still drunk

i think he meant thought u all hated us

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 16, 2011 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

i wasn't being serious

this was a nice interpretation of the CAIRO projections, and certainly washes out any enthusiasm i had left on the ‘luck’ factors that would make this season competitive

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 16, 2011 6:26 AM CST up reply actions  

umm yeah

I disagree.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 16, 2011 6:45 AM CST reply actions  

Specifically?

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 16, 2011 8:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Gee thanks.

What are the dogg’s numbers?

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 16, 2011 11:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Well to start I have a huge issue with the starting staff numbers.

Danks has a big year (maybe not for us)
Peavy and Humber are underrated

De Aza… besides my crazy MVP I’m going to go out on a limb and say I think he’ll be a bit better.
and Larry read my mind Alexei is a 5 WAR player this year.

I don’t have a problem with 85.

Actually is around the 5-8 I routinely tack on the White Sox number anyway.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 16, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Axelrod has a better projected WAR than Thorndog?

Yeesh. And our kids seem to not be projected to grow up. Beckham’s a lost cause?

But overall I think we are a <80 win team as we stand, yeah.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 16, 2011 7:14 AM CST reply actions  

Better than 2010, worse than 2011.

And I stand by it!

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 16, 2011 7:28 AM CST reply actions  

I think it is horribly underestimating.

And even despite this it’s still projecting for 77 wins. I think 85 wins is a realistic possibility with the current team.

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 16, 2011 7:58 AM CST reply actions  

85 wins

I agree.Still 85 wins gets you 2nd or 3rd place.Kinda like kissing your sister.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 16, 2011 8:41 AM CST up reply actions  

85 wins?

I doubt it. Maybe a .500 team.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 16, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Tiger success hinges a lot on Verlander and Cabrera

Cabrera 7.1
Verlander 8.6

Either of them go down for even a small period of time then that team will struggle (See Minnesota Twins)

by striker on Dec 16, 2011 9:21 AM CST reply actions  

Tigers are already better than last year

with recent roster moves.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 16, 2011 10:07 AM CST up reply actions  

verlander

will be hard pressed to repeat last year’s performance. More than 250 ip and also the postseason, that’s a lot on an arm.

by ruffster on Dec 16, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Gee, is larry working for Fangraphs now?

Some of the rankings look eerily similar.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 16, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I dunno...

FG has Walker quite bit higher and Saladino and Santiago quite a bit lower.

by polodude017 on Dec 16, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

i'm happy i started the santiago trend.

none of the other outlets who previously published a white sox list mentioned him.

by larry on Dec 16, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I dunno...

FG has Walker quite bit higher and Saladino and Santiago quite a bit lower.

by polodude017 on Dec 16, 2011 10:50 AM CST reply actions  

Win totals seem.....

a little too optimistic for Sox and a little too pessimistic for Detroit and K.C.

by DonGutteridge on Dec 16, 2011 11:05 AM CST reply actions  

To paraphrase the Hunt for Red October

“….a 40 million dollar computer tells you the Sox won’t be good….and you don’t believe it?”

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 16, 2011 11:09 AM CST reply actions  

garbage

I already simulated/played next season on MLB 2k12. Don’t worry boys, Konerko will be the MVP, Peavy will win 20 games, and Buehrle will end up coming back and winning game 4 of the World Series for a sweep over the Phillies!

GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!

by hoosier3 on Dec 16, 2011 5:25 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Question
So let’s add it up for a win total. A replacement level team is expected to have 48.6 WAR. Add the 15.2 pitcher WAR and 14.2 position player WAR and we get 78 wins, or 1 more win than CAIRO projected.

How does a replacement level team have 48.6 wins above a replacement level team? Aren’t you just adding up straight projected wins at that point?

by Pander on Dec 16, 2011 6:23 PM CST reply actions  

Probably just a typo. A replacement level team is expected to win 48.6 games.

by Xeifrank on Dec 16, 2011 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

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