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Closing the book on the Swisher trade

Yesterday, the Rays signed Jhonny Nunez to a minor league contract. Nunez had been the last remaining player acquired in the trade that sent Nick Swisher to the Yankees (with Kanekoa Texeira) and brought back Wilson Betemit, Jeff Marquez and Nunez. While Swisher, amusingly, still has one year remaining on the undermarket contract he was signed to when the White Sox had him, now is a good time to quantify just how terrible the trade was. And hopefully never think of it again.

At the time of the trade, it was rumored that Swisher didn't "fit" in the White Sox locker room and he also was accused of sulking during his subpar 2008 season: .219/.332/.410 and a wOBA of .325. That was slightly below league average offense. He played all three outfield positions, as well as first base, but he spent the most time in centerfield. Depending upon how one viewed his defense, he was worth 1.3 fWAR or -0.8 rWAR. I think rWAR was overly harsh on his defense, based upon his other seasons, and fWAR may be slightly optimistic. 1 WAR seems like a nice round number to use for his approximate value.

While he probably earned the $3.5 million the White Sox paid him, this was by far his worst season and represented a significant decline. Of course, the primary driver of his bad offense was a .249 BABIP - well below his career average. His other offensive components - home runs, walk rate, strikeout rate - remained in line with his prior seasons. And he was 27 years old, usually known as the prime of a player's career.

Whether his was a skill decline was the subject of significant debate both on SSS and elsewhere. I will be kind and not name the disbelievers on this site (they know who they are) but, objectively, the better argument at the time was that it was not a skill decline but one largely attributable to luck and other correctable factors. It should have been expected that, going forward, Swisher would perform much more like 2006/2007 Swisher and not 2008 Swisher.

Star-divide

Unfortunately, the White Sox front office apparently were amongst the disbelievers They wasted little time in trading him away, sending him to the Yankees barely two weeks after the end of the World Series. Even if one believes that Swisher had so burned his bridges that it was impossible for him to return to the White Sox in 2009, the speed of the trade and the small return suggest a team that was desperate to dump a player as quickly as possible at whatever price.

Let's keep in mind that, less than a year prior, Swisher and his 5 years of team control for $34.8 million was worth two top prospects (Gio Gonzalez, ranked #26 in baseball by Baseball America, and Fautino De Los Santos, ranked #60), as well as a formerly well-regarded prospect, Ryan Sweeney.

Ten months later, in a quantity disguising lack of quantity package, he returned Betemit, Marquez and Nunez - none of whom were regarded as much of anything. And the White Sox had to throw in Texeira as a kicker to get that package. Let's go over what each of these players did for their respective new teams.

Wilson Betemit

He was arbitration eligible for the second time and the parties avoided going to a hearing by signing him to a one year, $1.3 million contract. It was alleged that some scout in the White Sox organization thought Betemit would be able to play shortstop and he was acquired to backup Alexei Ramirez. That silly notion was dispensed with in one comical inning in the first Spring Training game. They still thought he could play third base and first base and he made the 2009 opening day roster as a backup at both of those positions.

He played in six games at third base. He had eight chances in those games. He committed an error on four of those chances.

In comparison to that, his offense was awesome: .200/.280/.311 in 50 plate appearances.

He saw his playing time dwindle in May and, on June 4, he was designated for assignment to make room for Gordon Beckham and was placed on waivers. Meaning, any team in baseball could have claimed him. No one did and he was outrighted off the 40 man roster to Charlotte, where he spent the remainder of the 2009 season taking over Mike MacDougal's role of collecting some nice checks and being unimpressive. As he was not on the 40 man roster, he became a free agent after the season. And he signed with the Royals.

Contribution: Two months of infrequent below replacement level play.

Jhonny Nunez

Nunez perhaps was the most interesting player in the trade. While he was clearly a reliever, the righty had a nice 92-95 MPH fastball and a mercurial slider. His issue was command but it certainly was not unheard of for a 23 year old to iron out that problem.

And it appeared that he had done just that. Nunez hadn't played above AA and he was assigned to Birmingham to start the 2009 season. He had some trouble throwing strikes there, as evident in his 4.1 BB/9, but, when he did, he was striking guys out, as evident in his 11.1 K/9. He moved up to Charlotte midseason. And there he solved his control issues (1.8 BB/9) and maintained a healthy strikeout rate (8.1 K/9). In both stops, he minimized hits allowed.

That earned him a callup in early August, in which he threw 12 pitches and retired each of the three batters he faced. After two games, though, the White Sox needed a spot start from Carlos Torres and he was sent back to Charlotte. He returned as a September callup and threw an additional 4.2 innings, which didn't go quite as well as before. He finished up the 2009 season with 5.2 IP, 10 H, 6 R, 2 BB and 3 K.

And that may well be his major league career. It certainly was his White Sox career, as he stayed in the minors for all of the next two seasons. His command issues remained, as he was a bit too hittable. The walk rate was a bit too high. And the strikeout rate was a bit too low. Essentially, he's a guy who appears to have maxed out at AAA. As mentioned above, he was a minor league free agent this offseason and signed with the Rays.

Contribution: 5.2 innings of garbage time, below replacement level play.

Jeff Marquez

Every year, there's a flavor of the month for the White Sox in the Arizona Fall League. Marquez played most of the AFL for the Yankees team. But he did get traded in time to make one start for the White Sox team. Kenny Williams supposedly saw the righty in the AFL, liked how he was allegedly a groundball pitcher and became so smitten with him that he just had to have him.

If you squinted hard enough, read his old scouting reports and generally ignored his results other than a 1.78 GO/AO in 2008, you probably could convince yourself that Marquez had a chance to be a major league baseball player. And he did sort of become one.

Just not immediately. In 2009, he missed the first few months of the season with bone chips in his elbow. When he came back, he really sucked. In 11 starts, he had an ERA just under 10.00. Per 9 innings, he gave up 14 hits, allowed 2.5 home runs, walked 4 while managing to strike out 5. Those are really bad rates.

In 2010, things were comparatively awesome. He threw 144.2 innings, gave up 160 hits, walked 49 and struck out 89. Which is still pretty bad. He got called up for one inning in July after Jake Peavy tore his lat. Essentially he was there because, hey, they didn't need Daniel Hudson to start a game for a few days so why not call up Marquez in the meantime. In that inning, Marquez gave up 2 runs in a blowout win over the Royals. He didn't get called up in September.

In 2011, he was supposedly in the competition for a spot in the rotation. Phil Humber ended that and, instead of keeping Marquez in the bullpen, the White Sox decided he would have been so useless that it would just be better to go with an 11 man pitching staff. Because he'd already been optioned three times, the White Sox had to put him on waivers. No one claimed him and he was outrighted to Charlotte.

He muddled along for a couple months at Charlotte until, on May 30, they called him up. He sat in the bullpen for a week, generally sitting and not pitching. Then Peavy got hurt again and the White Sox decided they needed a starter not named Jeff Marquez. So they designated him for assignment again. But this time, the nasty Yankees claimed him. Something which supposedly upset Kenny.

Contribution: 1 inning of garbage time, below replacement level play. A week of bullpen seat-warming. And let's not forget that $20,000 waiver claim.

White Sox total: 50 plate appearances of .200/.280/.311, 5 errors and 6.2 innings pitched with 8 runs allowed. $20,000. And some not insignificant bench and bullpen seat-warming.

Star-divide

Now for the Yankees side of the ledger.

Kanekoa Texeira

Texeira spent 2009 at the Yankee's AA affiliate. They did not add him to their 40 man roster after the season and he was selected by the Mariners in the Rule 5 Draft. The Mariners put him on waivers after a couple months and the Royals claimed him. He spent the remainder of the 2010 season in their bullpen. As such, he never had to be returned to the Yankees.

Contribution: $50,000 for being drafted.

Nick Swisher

As predicted, thanks in part to BABIP regression, Swisher returned to his offensive norm in 2009. His line was .249/.371/.498 with a then career best wOBA of .375, while playing predominantly right field. Swisher also pitched a scoreless inning to finish a blowout loss to the Rays. The Yankees won the World Series but Swisher was mostly absent: 56 PA, 6 H, 2 2B, 1 HR, 7 BB, 18 K. fWAR: 3.2; rWAR 3.3.

In 2010, Swisher was on the good side of the BABIP Luck Fairy, as he posted a career high of .335. This helped him to achieve arguably his best offensive season: .288/.359/.511 with a career best wOBA of .377. He showed up for the postseason this time - 28 PA, 6 H, 3 2B, 2 HR, 4 BB, 8 K - particularly against the Twins. Alas, the Yankees fell short of the title. fWAR: 4.1; rWAR 4.3

Despite his very good 2010, some were concerned prior to the 2011 season about his marked decline in walks. While his other underlying stats were within their norms or, in the case of BABIP, an outlier to the positive, his walk rate was only 9.1%. That was his worst season percentage in his career and well below his career average.

However, 2011 Nick Swisher looked a lot like how Nick Swisher has looked in all but one season since his second full season in 2006: .260/.374/.449 with a wOBA of .358. This was his age 30 season so he is arguably out of his prime. His slight decline appears to be the result of a career low .188 ISO, as his other underlying stats all were pretty much dead-on his career averages. He was pretty meh in the postseason - 20 PA, 4 H, 1 HR, 1 BB, 5 K - as the Yankees again failed. fWAR: 3.8; rWAR 3.4.

During these three seasons, the Yankees paid him $21.05 million. According to fWAR, his production was worth about $47.6 million. And, of course, he has one season remaining on his contract. He'll be paid $10.25 million in 2012 and, so far, his projections suggest a bit of a bounce back in power and a bit of a drop in his on base skills. His fielding in right field hasn't shown any deterioration. He's probably a safe bet for 3+ WAR. Or well-worth his salary.

Contribution: 1877 plate appearances of .267/.368/.486; 123 OPS+; .370 wOBA. 11 fWAr; 11 rWAR. And 1 scoreless inning pitched.

Yankees total: Swisher's totals above plus $50,000.

Star-divide

In the famous words of Keith Law: You do the math.

Comment 140 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Swish admiring his bobble head: minus eleventeen million

When you factor “intangibles” into the equation…I think the Sox come out way ahead,

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 2, 2011 6:21 AM CST reply actions  

Based on this maybe we should switch our acrimony from Swish-a-lish to Kenny

On the other hand, FNS

It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted

by Scotty Ballgame on Dec 2, 2011 6:39 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

I thought it was Ozzie who could not stand him and wanted him out?

I might be wrong… but even if that’s the case still KW mostly to blame

Taking a walk in a donkey park listening to the wind of change

by LT_sox_fan on Dec 2, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I am one of these people

"Sportsmanship is just loser talk for losing."

by boyonthedock on Dec 2, 2011 5:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, those loveable Guillen boys...
OzneyGuillen School on Friday shouldn’t be aloud!!

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 2, 2011 6:51 AM CST reply actions  

They believe silence is golden, for others.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 2, 2011 8:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Throw-up in mouth

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 2, 2011 6:51 AM CST reply actions  

I was a disbeliever.

FNS for making my opinion look like horseshit in this instance. I still don’t want him on my team. We just should not have had a fire sale.

But, always first and foremost, FNS.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 2, 2011 7:37 AM CST reply actions  

sigh.

i guess he’s kind of a douche. as are so many people. i’d rather have him and win then not have him and lose.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 2, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

My feelings exactly

Outside of any egregious sins, I don’t really care about a player’s personality. To paraphrase xkcd, they are random number generators around whom narratives are built.

by joewho112 on Dec 2, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

wait wait wait

peavy still has to shut the fuck up, right?

by Trooper on Dec 2, 2011 10:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I was witness to perhaps Swisher's finest moment: his walk-off homerun against the Tigers.

I loved that 2008 team. I know Swisher’s an a-hole and all, but wow Kenny. You couldn’t get any sort of return?

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 2, 2011 7:46 AM CST reply actions  

He had a monstrous June

My favorite moment was his grand slam off of Dempster…when Dempster was pitching like the second coming of Maddux.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 2, 2011 7:50 AM CST up reply actions  

what was the game

where he hit two homers, one right handed and one left handed, very impressive that. I always liked him, that pirate thing he used to do made me laugh.

by hoodlight on Dec 2, 2011 8:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

People said Jeff Marquez was a decent return....

people were too blinded by FNS-itude to realize how awfully KW handled the entire affair from beginning to end.

expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat

by kcgard2 on Dec 2, 2011 8:01 AM CST reply actions  

what people?

At least around here KW was royally thrashed for that Swisher 2 trade, even by the group (me included) that didn’t think his shit stank at that point. It was indefensible.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 2, 2011 9:07 AM CST up reply actions  

'quantity disguising lack of quality' presumably.

letting all that praise yesterday go to your head, larry.

by craigws on Dec 2, 2011 8:33 AM CST reply actions  

let me just say, and i mean this in all sincerity,

fuck nick swisher.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Dec 2, 2011 8:33 AM CST reply actions  

Been waiting to share this

I can’t help but think the second Swisher trade was the beginning of the end of the Ozzie/KW relationship. If I recall correctly after the Sox were eliminated in the playoffs, KW was seen hugging Swisher and told him to come back strong next year. Then the Sox had their organizational meetings and Swisher was gone a few days later.

Since Ozzie hated his guts, he wanted him gone the second the season ended and since KW was still trying to give his manager the team he wanted, Swisher went. If you go back and look, I bet this was one of the first moments where their relationship really started to strain.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Dec 2, 2011 8:50 AM CST reply actions  

the enemy of my enemy...

is still my enemy.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Dec 2, 2011 9:10 AM CST up reply actions  

No.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 2, 2011 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

It bit them in the ass from the word go

Lets say Swish had a bounceback year in 2009. That would have mitigated the blow from losing Quentin (and JD’s fade at the end of the year).

It also would have meant no Podsednik, no Rios, and possibly no Peavy.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 2, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

you can but you still have to look at Swish provided during the same time frame

Swisher on the White Sox probably wins them at least 1 more division title.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 2, 2011 9:09 AM CST up reply actions  

i did this at some point during the 2011 season, so it's incomplete. sorry for the formatting.

name year war value salary net

nick swisher 2008 1.3 $5.9 $3.6 $2.3
2009 3.2 14.6 5.4 9.2
2010 4.2 16.8 6.85 9.95
2011 1.1 4.9 4.5 .4

ryan sweeney 2008 2.2 9.9 .4 9.5
2009 4.2 18.8 .4 18.4
2010 .9 3.7 .4 3.3
2011 .1 .3 .21 .09

gio gonzalez 2008 -.6 -2.7 .13 -2.83
2009 1.1 5.0 .4 4.6
2010 3.2 12.7 .41 12.29
2011 1.4 6.1 .21 5.89

jeff marquez 2010 -.1 -.2 0 -.2

wilson betemit 2009 -.6 -2.8 1.3 -4.1

so in dealing with swisher, the sox paid $4.9M and got $2.9M worth of value.
and the a’s received $2.56M in financial obligations to get $53.8M worth of value.
and the yankees received $16.75M in financial obligations to get $36.3M worth of value.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 2, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Sweeney's 4.2 fWAR year is based heavily on an incredible UZR outlier.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 2, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

it's just some back-of-the-napkin math to help paint a picture.

not meant to be definitive.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 2, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Not harping on you.

I did the same this morning, just saw that number as ridiculous compared to his other seasons.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 2, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah I was going to say that but I got his point.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

And hopefully never think of it again.

Amen. And maybe FNS can finally be put out to pasture.

I understand why people are still angry at Kenny for this trade, because the team is feeling the aftereffects to this day. I don’t get why people are still angry at Swisher for his behavior. I had more or less forgotten about it by some time in 2009.

If the long-term bitterness is just from this trade, the large majority of the blame for that has to fall on Kenny (and arguably Ozzie), not Swisher.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 2, 2011 9:08 AM CST reply actions  

Im in your camp

To me Swisher was always what he is, an attention whore. I didn’t like his pouting at the end of 08 but I certainly didn’t want him traded and I wanted to burn down the front office after the trade to the Yankees. I mean they actually made me pay attention to Jeff Marquez. WTF.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 2, 2011 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Hell, Moneyball even told us his personality.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 2, 2011 9:22 AM CST up reply actions  

tell you what

i promise that if swisher is never brought up again i will hardly ever say “fuck nick swisher” again.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Dec 2, 2011 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Im not angry at swisher

I just didnt/dont like the way he acts both on and off the field

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 2, 2011 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

i'm not angry at him either.

in fact, my life has been made immeasurably more pleasurable simply because he is no longer on the white sox.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Dec 2, 2011 9:20 AM CST up reply actions  

I love this.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 2, 2011 10:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

heh, i'm sorry.

i just find his looking like a assdong at all times hilarious.

by obnoxious american on Dec 2, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Which is absolutely why it still works.

For some of us. Not all of us

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 2, 2011 3:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

i honestly don't get the contempt

for a guy having a good time while stacking millions of dollars while playing a child’s game. does his antics border on db territory – yeah, probably (i dunno , i ain’t there)- but put this kid on the northside of the city and he is pseudo-legend; with millions of jerseys sold. at the end of the day (it is night) this debacle is on the front office and club house ‘captains’. nice blogging, larry.

by explodingpinwheelsforfunandprofit on Dec 3, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions  

but put this kid on the northside of the city and he is pseudo-legend;

well, there’s your problem

by obnoxious american on Dec 3, 2011 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

he is a douche, but I dont think that should warrant the type of flack he recieves around here.

He was not THAT bad for the Sox, certainly not Adam Dunn/Alex Rios territory.

Packers Season

by OznCoop on Dec 3, 2011 9:53 PM CST up reply actions  

OK, maybe people aren't angry

Just saying that whatever the sentiment, it’s strange that FNS is a going concern around here considering how much time has passed since fans had to put up with him.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 2, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

lack of creativity.

things get beaten into the ground around here.

by larry on Dec 2, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Reading this piece really makes me want to beat things into the ground.

"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."

by RWShow on Dec 2, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

yes, this

some memes get overdone but i don’t think FNS can be. FNS.

Easy chief
We’re a community - Tdogg

by Jack M on Dec 2, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Memes get overdone by definition.

I could do without the whole “F—” thing, since it often reads like a humor/insight placeholder. FNS is worse than most, since it obfuscates the actual problem.

by Jim Margalus on Dec 2, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

I think that's what amuses me about it.

"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."

by RWShow on Dec 2, 2011 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

This.

What I really hate is the garbage trade, but it’s funny that we tend to place the blame on him, the guy who “forced” the trade.

"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson

by mikecws91 on Dec 2, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

yup. lack of creativity.

and if one can’t be bothered to be humorous or insightful, it’s best to not bother.

by larry on Dec 2, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

ah, it's a convenient way to express one's distate for something.

if it is a meme, then it is one of the oldest memes in human history, along with ‘wu is actually methuselah’s dad’.

by craigws on Dec 2, 2011 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

fair enough.

it is easier to project the fault of it onto swisher than it is to consider everything closer to home. keeps thing simple.

by craigws on Dec 2, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

If you’re going to do it, just type it out In all its glory.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 2, 2011 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

i didn't mind swisher....

thought the blowup doll thing was pretty funny… he hit some big homers… unfortunately his act becomes a bit much when he is playing like shit. i don’t care that the sox traded him. but jesus christ they could have held out for a tad better of a deal. absolutely horrid trade.

thanks for ruining my morning larry.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 2, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I went through with the procedure.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 2, 2011 4:50 PM CST up reply actions  

*shudder*

His fucking career numbers in a pitchers park and the fact that he’s hitting peak-performance years in terms of age
Also, the biggest weakness on offense isn’t lack of goddamn speed it’s lack of OBP. Let’s just see what OBP Swisher posts next season compared to whatever Juan Pierre wannabe the Sox run out to CF next season.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 13, 2008 7:27 PM CST up actions

by craigws on Dec 2, 2011 5:37 PM CST up reply actions  

bah it was pretty much a draw.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 2, 2011 10:58 PM CST up reply actions  

only because my man dye chose to retire.

if he would have played he would have dwarfed swishy!

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 3, 2011 9:27 AM CST up reply actions  

not really, because your 2010-2011 prediction was comparing Swisher to a Dye replacement, not Dye

Also he didn’t chose to retire; no team wanted him as an outfielder because he was so bad that it was completely canceling out his hitting abilities. Which is also why he would have had little chance of matching Swisher’s value in those two years.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 3, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

*choose

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 3, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

heh i guess my tune has changed on him since then. oh well.

i had a job back then. was stressed out. lol

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 2, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

You are DadBoner, aren't you?

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 3, 2011 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Ivan Calderon

He is the only person that I have seen in a White Sox uniform that scared me as much as Wilson Betemit when he put a glove on and entered the field of play.
Betemit The Butcher.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 2, 2011 9:48 AM CST reply actions  

you're nutsy calderon wasnt awful in the outfield.

i remember him making some highlight reel catches. how dare you speak about the great Ivan in a sour tone.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 2, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

But Swisher was a "vetaran"

Aren’t veterans supposed to be solid professionals who go about their business professionally? Wasn’t that really the reason for Swisher trade #1? And KW’s love affair with veterans continues- Rios, Peavy, Dunn. Betemit at shortstop, yeah.

by ruffster on Dec 2, 2011 9:55 AM CST reply actions  

comma comma comma?

there are rules in this language, damn it. we’ve got to draw a line somewhere.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 2, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

guys with three years of service time are not usually considered veterans.

calling swisher a veteran when he was acquired is like calling gordon beckham a veteran.

it should be fairly obvious what the reason for the first swisher trade was: acquire a very good player under team control for five seasons on an undermarket contract.

by larry on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah, but swisher had 3 pretty solid seasons

and even though he had only 3+ seasons of service, he was gonna be 27 when we got him. but— your point is well taken— hopefully good production on a good contract.

I remember when we got him I thought, well good, we picked up a guy with decent power and obp. 97 and 100 walks in the 2 seasons before.

by ruffster on Dec 2, 2011 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Some back of the napkin math

If Swisher turned in his 2009 performance on the south side, that would have been worth three wins. That takes you to 82.

Subtract Betemit and Rios, you are at 84.

Minnesota got into the tiebreaker at 86 wins. After that? Take your pick.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 2, 2011 10:03 AM CST reply actions  

And if they kept Joe Crede...

They would have won 86!

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 2, 2011 10:07 AM CST up reply actions  

If Swisher turned in his 2009 performance on the south side, that would have been worth three wins. That takes you to 82.

But whose playing time are you cutting to make way for Swisher? In hindsight you could say Dye, but that would require the team to presciently eat $11 million and cut a guy who hit 34 home runs the year prior.

I think that people forget that the emergence of Carlos Quentin created a roster crunch that made it easier (albeit not smarter) for Kenny to trade Swisher.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 2, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

If he's mostly playing center, would the positional adjustment cancel out his bad defense there?

Just saying 67WMAQ’s calculation would need to consider that and not just plug in the three wins that Swisher accumulated playing the corners and first for the Yankees in 2009.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 2, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

If Swish has an average 2009

No Pods. No D-Wise (or maybe he’s a late inning defensive replacement). Certainly no Rios.

He moves to left once TCQ’s PF flares up in May.

With his production…maybe the Sox are a few wins better than the Padres on May 20th, so Peavy OK’s the first trade and does not get hurt.

And…it’s back of the napkin math. The estimates are rough.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 2, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

No Buehrle perfecto!

FNS never would’ve had it.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 2, 2011 3:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Would Wise have been on the team?

Just step all over my stuff, why don’t you?

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 2, 2011 4:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

They tried in 2008 after moving Lex.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 2, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

the assumption was that swisher wasn't traded.

that means you have quentin, swisher, dye and thome. seen or unseen, one of them has to play center.

by larry on Dec 2, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

fair enough

I do think one would have to account for the possibility that Swisher’s bad defense would outweigh the positional adjustment, and also that if some playing time is being taken away from Podsednik (2.3 WAR while seeing significant time in center) that would also cut into the team’s win total, but I’m quibbling too much about a “what if” at this point.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 2, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

with that alternate universe success

Maybe we wouldnt need to sign Dunn, maybe Pierre is not here, maybe we draft differently. Also, maybe Buehrle resigns after ‘11 but maybe Ozzie’s still here. Butterfly effect.

Dave Martinez woulda had that.

by Nordhagen on Dec 2, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

solid movie.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 2, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I enjoyed it.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 2, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

sounds like a project u-god

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 2, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

It'll have to wait a few weeks, but definitely something I could work on over winter.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 2, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm a huge fan of Project U-God.

The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.

by Uribe Down on Dec 2, 2011 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the worst part of the trade was

that we had to throw in some marginal prospect to net 3 shitty guys. This is probably my least favorite trade in recent history. I really want to know what the urgency was. He could play every outfield position, first base, and switch hit. Even if we kept him on the bench, it would have been worth it to keep him around to try and rebound.

by dasox313 on Dec 2, 2011 10:31 AM CST reply actions  

Ozzie wasn't that great himself.

Can’t change the past though. I really wish that him and Ozzie didn’t get off on a bad foot, Swisher could have done good in Chicago.

by dasox313 on Dec 2, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

ozzie is a bigger douche than swisher.

but he’s the one who had the power at the time.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 2, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Ozzie admitted

That the Swish fiasco was his fault though

by JPSoprano80 on Dec 2, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh it was very Jedi-like just in the wrong fucking direction

Remember the Sox chipped in a sweetener. We’re lucky right now KW didn’t give away Roger Brossard at the same time.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 2, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

This, very much.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 2, 2011 2:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Let's not forget Swisher's one appearance on 'How I Met Your Mother.'

I mean, at least we didn’t have Marquez or Betemit on there, right??

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Dec 2, 2011 1:20 PM CST reply actions  

He almost ruined Barney's perfect week.

That bastard. Jim Nantz would have never forgave him.

by polodude017 on Dec 2, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Our first Rule 5 Preview has had some time to marinate. Since then, we’ve had more time to digest the class of eligible players and gotten feedback on our first list. For Part II, we’ve divided the pool of attractive players into two categories: Lottery Ticket and Role Player.

Our first stab was tilted toward the Lottery Ticket end, but we’re going to focus a bit more on the Role Player spectrum this time around. More teams are looking to the Rule 5 for low-cost big league reserves and relief pitchers, as was the case in 2010 selections Mike Martinez (Phillies) and Pedro Beato (Mets).

Jordan Danks, of, White Sox: The younger brother of big league lefty John Danks of the White Sox, Jordan Danks has extensive experience in the limelight and won’t be awed by being a big leaguer. He starred at Texas and has played for USA Baseball’s World Cup team, and he has an attractive profile as a fourth outfielder. He hits lefthanded, he runs (including 33 steals in 43 attempts the last two seasons at Triple-A) and he defends. Danks’ defense is his best tool, as he fits in center field easily and has enough arm to fill in as a right fielder. His bat is the problem—he’s a .258/.340/.408 career hitter, and he has 306 strikeouts in those two years at Triple-A. His defense and speed should make him a useful reserve.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/prospect-pulse/2011/2612666.html

by larry on Dec 2, 2011 4:41 PM CST reply actions  

this is so creative

you clearly have no life

NAOPOS

by blackoutsox on Dec 2, 2011 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

This is a masterpiece

Does your wife know she married a genius.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 2, 2011 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

No, but I'm sure she's dating one.

Badaboom.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 2, 2011 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

It's shocking that the GM who signed off on this trade still has a job.

And even more shocking that he has a job after that trade, drafting poorly (minus Sale), giving Mark Teahen an extension, claiming Alex Rios, trading for Jake Peavy, trading Hudson and Holmberg for 30 starts of Edwin Jackson, and signing the debacle that is Adum Dunn to that deal.

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 4, 2011 5:26 PM CST reply actions  

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