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Return on rebuild might be a little disappointing

As I argued last week, it really doesn't seem like the Sox are in position to do much other than rebuild. But who should they swap? And who can they expect to get in return? Neither question can really be answered definitively as there's just too much uncertainty. We do know that Jerry Reinsdorf has said he always budgets his team to break even.

That may not be enough considering the substantial losses from last season, but at a minimum they'll go that far and I'd wager they're not there yet. Even with Buehrle gone, Cot's has payroll at $93M and that doesn't include Danks, Quentin and a handful of league minimum salaries. Add those in and payroll is in the neighborhood of $110M. That would qualify for the 3rd highest payroll in White Sox history, odd for a team Kenny Williams has admitted is rebuilding.

For comparison, in 2010 the Sox were set to break even with an opening day payroll of around $105M. That team won 88 games, probably pretty near the club's in-house projections. If I had to put a figure on it, I'd say $100M. That means at least one of John Danks or Carlos Quentin and perhaps one of the veteran relievers. So who should go?

Star-divide

That still takes some speculation, since there's just some stuff only the Sox front office knows. We do know that after Buehrle's departure and Sale drew into the starting rotation, the Sox were left without a legitimate 6th starter. Danks' replacement will be Zach Stewart or some similar option. That's a 3-4 win drop off. If the fans can't tell the difference between a 78 and 82 win team, he might as well go.

That's where the front office projections come into play and we're left guessing. But if Danks isn't bringing enough to the table to merit a spot in the rotation, Quentin certainly doesn't need to be around either. He's not nearly as valuable but he'll make almost as much money as Danks in 2012. In fact, Q should be gone no matter what. With Viciedo ready to take over, Carlos' absence shouldn't be too noticeable. From there, trading one of Crain, Frasor or Thornton gets the budget under $100M.

The question of what we'll get in return is a whole other ball of complicated wax. In a trade, there are a few considerations. For one, why not just buy a free agent? If you can get the exact same player at the exact same salary, why lose talent on top of it? Unfortunately for the Sox, Quentin makes almost what he'd get as a free agent. Unless Kenny can find a team that just can't live without him, I'd guess he'll end up in a package deal to help keep any negative press to a minimum. Any of the veteran relievers are in the same boat, so don't be surprised if Thornton/Quentin are exchanged for a couple nobodies.

Danks, on the other hand, is due a serious raise once he hits the open market. In his last year of arbitration, he'll be making in the vicinity of $10M less than he's worth. That missing money is all savings that the Sox need to make back in the trade. In trading for prospects, you get more young players who, as long as they make the big leagues, are paid dirt cheap and replace Danks' savings sometime in the future. If that's confusing to you, it could be worse.

Specifically, someone along the lines of Nestor Molina or, as has been reported, Manny Banuelos. If Kenny somehow wrangles a package bigger than an above average (but not elite) pitching prospect, be very happy indeed. Hopefully that'll be the extent of the trading necessary to offset the Dunn/Rios/Peavy damage. The same way that Danks is substantially underpaid and is worth prospects as a result means that in order to ditch any of the Dastardly Trio, the Sox would have to send prospects to match the amount Dunn/Rios/Peavy are overpaid. By my calculation, the Sox could send Dunn and Dayan Viciedo to a team and actually deserve nothing in return.

Sorry, just thought I'd throw that tidbit out there in case someone forgot why we're rebuilding in the first place.

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Disheartening.

But not entirely unexpected.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 20, 2011 1:10 PM CST reply actions  

Yup

Entering a rebuilding project with the worst farm system in baseball and 1 or 2 assets (Danks/Floyd) who may net 1 worthwhile piece seems a bit far fetched. If they can’t get anything worthwhile for Danks, would rather just keep him, get the pick, and see if they can’t catch a few breaks and contend in a bad division.

by MelidoPerez on Dec 20, 2011 1:41 PM CST reply actions  

I'd rather burn it down.

Get whatever under-23 talent might come back for Danks, Quentin, and Floyd, maybe Humber as well. Likely the return would be no more than three legitimate contributors (not stars, just contributors) to the major league team over the next 3-4 years.

This would do a couple of things. One, it makes the farm system about the 20th-best in the game rather than the absolute worst. Two, the major league team’s performance would be horrid enough that Williams would either quit in frustration, finally be fired, or be traded to the Raiders for a speedy wide receiver with contact issues. Once he’s gone, maybe the next GM would give a damn about rebuilding rather than endlessly recycle Alomars and Everetts and ballooning a top-7 payroll for middling returns at best.

Success this year isn’t winning, but getting people in place for the next good White Sox team. I have no faith that a Kenny Williams-led front office is capable of building the next good White Sox team.

by asinwreck on Dec 20, 2011 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't really see them getting rid of all of them

We still need to field a team next year. As for you having no faith, are you forgetting that at one point this front office built a world series winning team not that long ago? We are stuck with him for now and I think that he may surprise us.

by 815Sox on Dec 20, 2011 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

but...

… he was a key piece of the ‘05 World Series winners. He’s exactly the kind of player a team on the brink ought to get. Hard to imagine a short-term acquisition working out better.

6 years later, it still feels great to say …. World Series Champs.

by ruffster on Dec 20, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

you mean the guy who hit

.251/.311/.435 as a DH?

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 10:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, he willed that team to success! You and your fancy basement numbers!

And there’s no such thing as dinosaurs. Nor has man/woman ever been to the moon!

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 21, 2011 7:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Santos

Trading one player making one million dollars for a minor league player does not seem like rebuilding.I assume Frasor will go although why they picked up his option seems to be a mystery to most on this board.
To rebuild don’t you have to tear something down first.
Mr. Gorbachev tear down this team!

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 20, 2011 1:44 PM CST reply actions  

With the way the market for relievers has gone this winter, Frasor is cheap.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 20, 2011 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I use the term DREavy

And find it far less cumbersome than Dunn/Rios/Peavy.

by Rick Hardslab on Dec 20, 2011 1:53 PM CST reply actions  

I pronounce that "drehvy"

Accent on the “eh”. “Dreevy” sounds too much like “dreamy”.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 21, 2011 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind. A complete lack of farm talent needs to be fixed somehow.

Covering a bit of salary might improve the haul enough to expedite the rebuilding process.
If the Sox are truly gonna sell pieces and eliminate even the slightest hope for a division title, then I’d prefer they try to aggressively rebuild. Sending money in a deal could effectively make up for money not spent in previous drafts.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 20, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

It's any and all talent that the Sox need

how many .500 or worse teams also have shite systems? Turning present talent into future talent makes it easier to get higher picks and acquire more valuable assets relative to the competition. But that’s the real problem. In terms of total asset value, the Sox are in real trouble.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 5:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Plus some money

This would be very uncharacteristic of Kenny.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 20, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Plus money

Point taken.
The difference here would be the reason money would be included.
that is what would be uncharacteristic.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 20, 2011 5:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Cofield

really?
Oh that’s right.
I remember now.You gave him that nice write up as one of our top prospects.
My mistake.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 20, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions  

what do you think you get for "plus some money"?

actual prospects? i think some people on here have a ridiculously low dollar value ascribed to the expected surplus value of even second or third tier prospects.

kyle cofield was a C level, maybe if he figures something out we have a decent reliever prospect. of the $3.5 million sent to the braves with linebrink, about $1-1.5 million probably could be ascribed to cofield. guys who would be ranked at the backend of a top 100 list – i.e., decent but not particularly great prospects – are worth about $11 million.“plus some money” balances a deal when the other team just wants money instead of your third tier prospects.

by larry on Dec 20, 2011 10:57 PM CST up reply actions  

plus money

Very well stated.The question then would be,would the Sox send money in a trade of Quinton, Danks,or Floyd?
I know they could.It just seems very unlike Kenny.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 21, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Your autocorrect is faulty

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.

by JofpGallagher on Dec 21, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Royals bring back Yunkiesky

Only a little more than 3 months left before Hawk is gushing over him.

by MelidoPerez on Dec 20, 2011 2:52 PM CST reply actions  

As a super sub.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 20, 2011 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Is Danks worth one of the Yanks hot catching prospects?

By himself or with a middling pitching prospect too? Its not like he wouldn’t give them a shot to sign him long term if he thrives in NY. Would Kenny make that deal if they offered?

by detailshp on Dec 20, 2011 3:40 PM CST reply actions  

They won't move Montero and he won't be a catcher

I don’t want Romine unless he is the second best player in a trade and I’ll bet the Yanks consider Gary Sanchez untouchable not to mention his defense is suspect as well.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 20, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Romine iirc is seen as a future back up.

Montero’s not a catcher, but he’s out of Danks’ league. He’s not going to sign below market, so why should the chance to re-sign him matter?

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 4:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Sorry?

I’m not sure exactly what you’re saying or how it makes Danks more valuable. If it has something to do w/ Torre talking shit about a 40 year old w/ a bad back, whatever. He’s a top 3 in the last 30 years HOFer.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 4:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

wouldn't Danks bring back a draft pick

If the Yanks give him a qualifying offer? I am not certain in the new CBA how that would work, but if he spends a year and NY and hates it, at least if the Yanks lose him, they get a supplemental pick. He just might not like the pressure cooker that is NY. Or, conversely, he is under their control and they could throw a boatload of money at him as a 2nd lefty starter to slot behind CC. Either way, it seems to me that he would be worth one of their prize prospects, even if its a one year rental/supplemental draft pick. But then again, the yanks seem to be playing it cool this year.

by detailshp on Dec 20, 2011 4:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Montero's still out of their league w/ comp included

though not by a whole lot.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 5:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

yep.

didn’t include Clemens, though that’s maybe not fair? i dn how to adjust for steroids. he’s also an incredible prick. that’s got to be worth negative something.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 2:00 AM CST up reply actions  

any opinions on this scale?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/hof_monitor.shtml

shows top 5 recent guys as clemens, johnson, maddux, mariano, and pedro.

too much love for saves maybe, with trevor hoffman 7th.

by Trooper on Dec 21, 2011 2:33 AM CST up reply actions  

that's James' bit he developed to predict how the voters would vote iirc

that’s fine, but for me, it’s (E)RA and innings pitched, w/ adjustments for park and era.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Good morning.

Nice to see I can count on some things in life. colin waking up in the afternoon is one of those things.

Thank you. With Donny retiring I was about to reconsider the existence of God. Now, notsomuch.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 21, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

i get the feeling you always press the big red button

no matter how well labeled it is or sternly instructed you are to absolutely not do that. since you’re making a list of things to count on, i mean.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 6:47 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

hazy said he liked it

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 20, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

It's fine

It lacks the ability to rec stuff, but beyond that it translates the web version about as well as can be expected. Tabbing through new posts is easy which is a big plus.

by joewho112 on Dec 20, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

won't let me login

i got to the sign in page fill in the creds and press the done button and nothing happens

by hoodlight on Dec 20, 2011 4:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

It worked smoothly for me

One feature I would like is the ability to tell it to exclude certain news stories from the news feed. For instance, I don’t follow hocky or soccer so removing those stories would be good.

I do like being able to flip through the updates on a story without having to leave the feed.

by joewho112 on Dec 20, 2011 4:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I like it

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 21, 2011 11:01 AM CST via Android app up reply actions  

What about the value of compensation that goes along with Danks?

A pitcher of his caliber is likely to turn down the qualifying offer at the end of next season. If the compensation is still two draft picks (which Passan has written it is) the potential surplus value in those picks is ~$8M according to this research. Probably marginally higher since only the top 10 slots are now protected instead of the top 15.

by 3E8 on Dec 20, 2011 4:40 PM CST reply actions  

Strip

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 4:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions   2 recs

wtf. phone fail?

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 4:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

My phone does multi-person texts, mind

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 5:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Easily the weirdest text I received while at Carmax.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 20, 2011 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Blah I always forget frickin compensation

That puts him in elite pitcher, back half of top 100 prospect territory if my math is right. If that article is the same as his other one, it’s $4.88M/WAB. And WAB*1.35 ~ fWAR. So that’s about 2 WAR. W/o compensation, Danks is gonna be worth about 2 free WAR. 4 total puts him at a top 100 pitcher or a back end of 100 hitter.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 5:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Those six picks will be added

But isn’t that mitigated by the change in the rules for comp? Won’t there be less sandwich picks if compensation is only for guys getting the big deals (top 125 I think) and not all the mid level guys who will no longer warrant it?

by MelidoPerez on Dec 20, 2011 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

we won't know the full effect until a few drafts happen.

there will be less sandwich picks. but the reduction in sandwich picks will be mostly the result of the old type B compensation going away, which are after the type A compensation picks (i.e., the sandwich picks are determined by the elias rankings, best to worst). the majority of what would have been type A free agents are likely to be made a qualifying offer. some guys who would have been type B, such as a john danks, are likely to, as well. i think it’s essentially putting six picks in front of where the old type A picks were and now “qualifying offer free agents” picks will be. also, the compensation will now be in reverse draft order. so, if you’re the yankees/red sox, for example, you can probably expect to now be at the end of the line.

in any event, six picks at that point in the draft, even combined with the re-shuffling of the order, aren’t particularly important to value.

by larry on Dec 20, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

For those looking for "prospects"...

Barely two months later, Williams decided it was finally time for the White Sox to rebuild, and so he traded Santos, an excellent reliever who (owing to his inexperience) still had growth potential, and who was signed to a club-friendly contract, for a single prospect. And not even a can’t-miss prospect — a guy whose best-case scenario is to be a league-average starting pitcher.

Prospects are tremendously valuable commodities. But there is nothing more valuable in baseball than a star player who is signed to a long-term contract before he reaches arbitration eligibility. The White Sox traded the latter for the former. The Blue Jays, who were desperate for a closer, acquired a good one for a pitcher whose absence they’ll hardly miss.
More here:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7370324/the-mlb-prospect-bubble

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 20, 2011 5:59 PM CST reply actions  

One more snip from the above link:

It’s no coincidence that the Blue Jays, who possess a ton of minor league talent and realistic playoff hopes for next season, turned Nestor Molina into Sergio Santos. No GM in baseball has done a better job over the past 18 months than the Blue Jays’ Alex Anthopoulos, and it appears he has once again read the market correctly. Prospects have never been trendier than they are right now. Which means that now is the perfect time to cash out.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 20, 2011 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

of course it does kind of help

if you have a load of prospects in the first place

by hoodlight on Dec 20, 2011 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Rudy Gault. Sigh.

“The SEC alleges that Heart Tronics installed former professional football player Willie Gault as a figurehead co-CEO along with former Hollywood executive J. Rowland Perkins in order to generate publicity for the company and foster investor confidence. Meanwhile behind the scenes, California-based attorney Mitchell J. Stein was controlling most of the company’s business activities, hiring promoters to tout Heart Tronics stock on the Internet, and reaping nearly $8 million from secret trades that he orchestrated unbeknownst to investors.”

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 20, 2011 6:40 PM CST reply actions  

Or keep everyone, try to compete in a weak AL central...

Unless some desperate team throws the farm at us, let AJ, Peavy, Q, Floyd and Danks walk after 2012, none of them but AJ would accept arbitration, get 6+ extra picks, and there’s the rebuild.

I’m sure this has been said before, so my apologies.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Dec 20, 2011 9:34 PM CST reply actions  

floyd is signed for next year too.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 20, 2011 10:33 PM CST up reply actions  

except the difference between us and the teams that can afford to actually spend

will be so big that we’ll have something like a 1 in 10/20 chance of winning the division. the Tigers and whoever else has big eyes are unlikely to stand pat if they can make money off buying more wins.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 10:38 PM CST up reply actions  

we will be able to spend next offseason though.

make it rain

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 20, 2011 10:44 PM CST up reply actions  

and apparently they may be planning to do that a year early! holy shit! make it happen!

http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/33972032?source=rss_blogs_MLB

Also, word in the international scouting community is that the White Sox watched Cespedes in a private workout recently. The White Sox have had recent success with Cuban players, having signed Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 20, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions  

intriguing.

we might be a team that can afford to keep him in the majors all this season, plus obvs alexei and dayan. also: FOG.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 1:44 AM CST up reply actions  

FOG.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

fuck ozzie guillen

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 21, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

If by some miracle that happens

Who’s hosting the celebratory pig roast?

by Titan52 on Dec 21, 2011 8:22 AM CST up reply actions  

where would he play?

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 21, 2011 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

This.

Even after trading Quentin, we’ll have a full outfield.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 21, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions  

i don't really think they are sold on De Aza.

and that is where the De Aza/Rios timeshare comes into play.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 21, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions  

What aren't they sold on do you think?

The only thing I could think of would be health but that wouldn’t precipitate a move to spend millions on Cespedes.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 21, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

if this guy is as good as everyone seems to think

there really aren’t many players who would stop you from signing him. and de aza certainly isn’t of the quality of those players.

by larry on Dec 21, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

I hear ya

but if they are truly cutting payroll, it just doesn’t make sense to me why the Sox would spend 40m+ on a guy who no one is sure if he is ready for the major leagues at age 26. De Aza is obviously not as special a player as this guy appears to be but he is cheap and serviceable. I just don’t understand why anyone would think we actually had a shot at getting this guy.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 21, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

the marlins are allegedly the leading pursuer.

to beat them, you just gotta backload your contract offer even more.

by larry on Dec 21, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I buy that rumor.

Cuba is a short swim from Miami. And what better way to make another splash than a big FA signing from the Motherland.

Stupid money in Miami. Lots of foreign buyers propping up the real estate market. Lots of deals for cash. Miami is doing relatively well in an economic sense.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 21, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Its also crazy to think that not too long ago Miami was

a sleepy little retirement town full of old people. Than cocaine happened.

by 815Sox on Dec 21, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Hadn't thought of that, good call

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 21, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't buy this

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 21, 2011 11:03 AM CST via Android app up reply actions  

I just don't see the point in a complete rebuild

I mean, the pieces that are hurting us the most can’t be traded. I would like to see Kenny trade Quentin and a prospect to the Brave’s for one of their young pitchers. I would keep everything else the way it is. I mean the central is still the worst division in the AL. Our team is not all that different than it was coming into last year. It is very possible that we are within contention and 1 trade deadline addition away from being a contender a la Cleveland Indians in 2011. Unless we can get a package like the Padres did for Latos I don’t see the point in trading Floyd or Danks. Especially not now.

by MinneapolisSoxFan on Dec 20, 2011 10:17 PM CST reply actions  

what prospect?

we have no one out there other than Molina. everyone else is expected to contribute to the team. and none of those young pitchers will be replacing anyone so bad that they Braves’ demands would be met.

and believe me, trading Danks and Quentin is not a complete rebuild.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2011 10:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Is Eric Battersby our of our system?

He’d fetch something. I mean, he hit four homers in a game, once.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Dec 20, 2011 11:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I never said that it was

And I probably should not have even used “complete rebuild” because we all know that is impossible thanks to the big 3. I just don’t see any reason to trade Floyd or Danks. Maybe at the deadline if we are out of it, we would probably get more then anyways. We still have a decent rotation, a good bullpen and I have to believe Dunn will have a decent year.

by MinneapolisSoxFan on Dec 20, 2011 10:58 PM CST reply actions  

i already laid out the why.

if Danks isn’t making the team much revenue, finding a guy who can be a contributor on the cheap from 2012/13 onward is more valuable. Danks, if he were to resign, would be at market rate. w/ Dunn and Rios on the club, the number of guys you sign at market is limited. maybe Danks is one you want to make, but it’s coming at the expense of someone else. at least Floyd will be around under market for 2012.

and no, you don’t get more at the deadline, you get less. he’s worth half what he was if he’s signed for one season. he’s worth 3/4 what he was if he’s signed for two. etc. there’s a bit of a bump since the teams closest to the playoffs make a bit more revenue off those added wins, so longer term contracts maybe even out, but the guys we’re talking about? not so much.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 1:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I read the article

I just disagree. We can contend as we are so why look to 2013?

by MinneapolisSoxFan on Dec 21, 2011 7:33 AM CST up reply actions  

im with you brother

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 21, 2011 11:07 AM CST via Android app up reply actions  

Ever the optimist.

Gotta love the dogg.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 21, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

certainly seen more pessimistic

views be wrong than vice versa over the years.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 21, 2011 11:41 AM CST via Android app up reply actions  

this team has a serious talent problem as it stands.

even if they over-perform the computers thanks to pitching/injury avoidance, that won’t be enough.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Who cares what the computers say

I have never been a big fan of computer projections. What did they say about us before 2005? I am not totally discounting them, just not something I put alot of stock in. One major difference that was not quantified in any computer projections this year or last is that Ozzie is gone. I firmly believe that had we gotten rid of him before last year, like we should have, this would be alot happier offseason. He gave up long before he quit on us late in the year last year and that was evident by the product on the field. If I felt it as a fan early last year, I cant imagine what it was like in that clubhouse. A new manager will do the Sox alot of good this year, even if it is Ventura.

by MinneapolisSoxFan on Dec 21, 2011 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Not a fan of computer projections?

(Waits for the Nagasaki moment, looks for popcorn/butter/salt.)

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 21, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I understand his point, especially PECOTA of '05.

As a Silver knob slobber no less!

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 21, 2011 5:18 PM CST up reply actions  

we've been over why the computers tend to get the Sox wrong.

we’re the only ones iirc where there’s a clear bias that isn’t random. it’s mostly Herm and some Coop. if you want to grant a full 5 wins for that difference, for CAIRO that gets us to 82. 82 is about where my estimate is at too. that’s a long long ways from 88. $30M or more than 1 SD of luck.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 6:42 PM CST up reply actions  

i believe i saw ventura was at the bulls game yesterday,

so it is good to know he is already back in the city. i hope he was making sure jerry isn’t spending all his cash on rose.

by craigws on Dec 21, 2011 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

on aggregate the computers do a good job.

and i’m familiar with the particulars of why they tend to get the Sox wrong and account for them. they’re still gonna put us well short of where we need to be.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 6:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Brilliant.

I believe every post that talks about how much we suck should end with bok’s posts. Go green.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 21, 2011 7:19 AM CST up reply actions  

whatever they do...

they need to fool the fans into thinking they have a plan. so far I am not fooled.

by Hatchetm on Dec 21, 2011 10:13 AM CST reply actions  

Who dis?

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 21, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Danks extension

5 years/65 million. Young enough to be part of the long term plan. Business as usual for the Sox, do exactly the opposite of what everyone is thinking.

by MelidoPerez on Dec 21, 2011 5:37 PM CST reply actions  

This is reported

By margalus on twat. Guy who got frasor trade right says so.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 21, 2011 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Rebuilding from the sky up

Any chance for a sign and trade, danks much more valuable with that extension? Probably dumb to think so but maybe deep in the heart of Texas.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 21, 2011 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

w/ KW who knows anything for sure

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2011 6:40 PM CST up reply actions  

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