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Five years after trade, the John Danks legacy starts anew

Back in 2005, the White Sox drafted Jordan Danks in the 19th round. His draft stock was depressed because the Danks family made it known that Jordan had every intention of attending the University of Texas, but the White Sox used a second-day pick to, at the very least, get an idea of what Jordan was all about.

Mark Gonzales covered the negotiations rather extensively for a 19th-round pick who had little chance of breaking his commitment, and some quotes from the family patriarch, John Danks Sr., have stuck in my mind.

From July 3, 2005: "We are completely appreciative of the White Sox," and later in the article, Gonzales notes Danks Sr.'s excellent relationship with scout Keith Stabb.

From Aug. 28, 2005: "It had nothing to do with the Sox. [Jordan] just wanted to play for the University of Texas before playing pro ball. My hope is that he enjoys a couple of years at UT before getting drafted by the White Sox. I love the White Sox. I hope they play in the World Series."

Sure enough, the Sox did play in the World Series, and Jordan Danks would be drafted again by the White Sox.

And in between, five years ago on this date, the White Sox traded for Jordan's older brother.

Star-divide

For all the talk about Mark Buehrle's personal connection to the organization and its front office, John Danks' roots run deeper in some respects. His family had a positive relationship with the White Sox more than one year before John was brought into the fold, and when Jordan Danks was drafted by the Sox for a second time, the brothers decided to ditch Scott Boras in favor of Jeff Berry, who represents Buehrle.

When the Dankses changed agents back in 2008, we immediately knew that was an important day. It just took a little longer to bear fruit. Buehrle signed his first multi-year contract before his first arbitration year, but Danks and the Sox couldn't find common ground until the last one.

That's kind of how it's gone for the lefties. At this stage in his career, Danks has a lot of the same things going for him as Buehrle, but Buehrle just has a way of making everything seem easier.

It's not a fair comparison for Danks, and he'll have the opportunity to develop his own legacy with his role model pitching in the other league. At 26 years old and entering his sixth year, he has a strong foundation to build on. Take a look at the White Sox leaderboards since 1920* for pitchers over their first five seasons:

Innings pitched, first five:

  1. Tommy Thomas, 1,268.1 (1926-1930)
  2. Ted Lyons, 1,093.0 (1923-1927)
  3. Johnny Rigney, 994 (1937-1941)
  4. Mark Buehrle, 987.1 (2000-2004)
  5. John Danks, 917.2 (2007-2011)

Games started, first five:

  1. Thomas, 158
  2. Danks, 150
  3. Buehrle, 139
  4. Jack McDowell, 132 (1987-1992)
  5. Alex Fernandez, 132 (1990-1994)

Strikeouts, first five:

  1. Danks, 714
  2. Jack McDowell, 633 (1987-1992)
  3. Alex Fernandez, 592 (1990-1994)
  4. Buehrle, 581
  5. Melido Perez, 568

Losses, first five:

  1. Thomas, 75
  2. Danks, 56
  3. Charlie Robertson, 55 (1922-1925)
  4. Lyons, 53
  5. Rigney, 53

Baseball-Reference.com WAR, first five:

  1. Thomas, 19.3
  2. Danks, 19.2
  3. Buehrle, 17.0
  4. Rigney, 16.5
  5. Lyons, 15.2

*1920 is when the White Sox started using their starting pitchers in more modern fashion. Ed Walsh's 40 wins and 464 innings in 1908 are practically incomparable.

Star-divide

While we can't assume that Danks will pitch all five years of this contract with the White Sox, or that he'll be healthy enough to throw 180-210 innings each year, we can start pondering the concept of John Danks, 10-Year White Sox Veteran. Given the Danks-Sox relationship and the organization's tendency to be (too) loyal, it's a decent bet this long-term commitment will last.

A decade in the same uniform is a big deal. The first 10 years pares down the list further, because under those circumstances, even mainstays like Billy Pierce -- or, for a non-pitching contemporary example, Paul Konerko -- don't count. No, when you get to 10 years, you're left with three big names among pitchers: Ted Lyons, Joel Horlen, and ... wait for it ... Mark Buehrle.

That Danks has a clear path to join that group catches me off guard, probably because he pitched alongside Buehrle, and yet they weren't quite peers in the bigger picture. Everything Danks has done, Buehrle has done better.

Let it be said I'm not knocking Danks, because, like, God forbid he's not quite as good as a very special and unique predecessor. It just puts him in a funny position as he gets out from underneath Buehrle's shadow. Danks has his first chance to lead a staff, but the better he pitches, the more Buehrle's name will come up.

Everybody should hope that we find more and more ways to draw parallels. This impending five-year extension is a big-time start, and apparently Danks will have plenty of time to work on the others.

Star-divide

A few observations about these lists:

*With "first [X] seasons" criteria, a lot of it comes down to timing. Danks benefits from starting his very first season in the rotation from the get-go, whereas Mark Buehrle pitched out of the bullpen for half a season in 2000, and Jack McDowell was a September call-up in 1987.

Buehrle and McDowell would probably blow the field away, as they both pitched more than 1,100 innings when you count their first five seasons. Although you could ding McDowell for it not being five consecutive seasons, since he spent all of 1989 in Triple-A.

*Despite his rookie-year advantage, Danks ranks just seventh in wins with 54, with LaMarr Hoyt (61) and Richard Dotson (56) ahead of him. Run support is key here, but it wouldn't hurt if Danks could routinely finish stronger, too.

*I knew nothing about Tommy Thomas, so let's learn about him together. From his SABR Baseball Biography Project profile:

  • Hey, today's his birthday! That's kind of awesome.
  • He established himself for a good four years in the International League as a mainstay in the Baltimore Orioles' rotation before signing with the White Sox at the end of the 1925 season.
  • He was evidently something of a Cub-killer in the post-season Inter-City series.
  • He didn't drink or use tobacco.
  • His career with the Sox was dragged down by elbow problems, ptomaine poisoning, bone bruise and throat infection ... and five different managers didn't help, either.

Comment 47 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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this is a very interesting and well-researched idea

The fans are certainly clamoring for a new pitching hero with the departure of MB.

Too much pressure for Danks? I suspect not.

White Sox 2012: Helplessly rebuilding?

by greenlight on Dec 23, 2011 6:59 AM CST reply actions  

For those of you curious as to what ptomaine poisoning is...

per wikipedia:

Ptomaine poisoning
An early theory on the causes of food poisoning involved ptomaines (from Greek ptōma, “fall, fallen body, corpse”), alkaloids found in decaying animal and vegetable matter. While some alkaloids do cause poisoning, the discovery of bacteria left the ptomaine theory obsolete, though as recently as 1882 the ptomaine was thought of as bacteria, while cadaverine and putrescine “special alkaloids” produced by the “comma bacillus”.37

So now you know and knowing’s half the battle! YO JOE!

Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969

by zevsenesca on Dec 23, 2011 7:23 AM CST reply actions  

Well

It might actually help Peavy’s WAR. Two negatives equal a positive, right?

GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!

by hoosier3 on Dec 23, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

At Camp Granada

Ptomaine poisoning is eternal.

by Elvin Unseld on Dec 24, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I actually have been thinking.

He might be the next Mark Buehrle of the South Side. He is lefty, good, and a starter that has been putting up good numbers. I’m all for having him as our best pitcher. Hopefully after this contract is up and if we are doing bad he won’t bolt to another team for a few million more than we can offer him.

by dasox313 on Dec 23, 2011 8:59 AM CST reply actions  

i luv it when you analyze.

yeah, that buehrle is a real bastard. what a no good miserable treacherous two faced money grubbing traitor.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Dec 23, 2011 9:32 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

How much money do they need?

The amount of money ballplayers earn is obscene and their lust for it is not helpful to the fans. The fans have team loyalty, but the players are loyal to their ever-bulging pocketbooks. Don’t tell me that players can’t get by on just a couple of million a year; there is no defense of their huge salaries, other than they are able to get them and who will turn it down? Well, too bad they don’t. I’m not all that impressed by players who accept a $10 million deal to stay with their current team rather than accepting $11 or $12 million to go to a rival. Big deal. They’re already rich and should be set for life. All that said, I still love the White Sox, have since I first went to Comiskey back in 1960 and expect to always love them and follow them.

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted" - George Rogers Clark

by Carthago Delenda Est on Dec 23, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

who should get the money then?

the owners? corporate executives? the reason that amount of money in baseball exists is because of the players.

by obnoxious american on Dec 23, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Why should there be so much money?

Imagine if ticket prices were less than half of today. Imagine if we had ballparks without the luxury boxes and many other unnecessary amenities. Imagine if food and refreshments could be sold at the ballpark at affordable prices. Who should get the money? The FANS should be the recipients through lower costs associated with the team activities. Wouldn’t you like to be able to park your car for free or at least much lower cost? I know I’m over my head on this, but what can you expect from an unreformed democratic socialist?

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted" - George Rogers Clark

by Carthago Delenda Est on Dec 23, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Your ideal already exists. It's called the minor leagues.

Vote with your feet, go see a minor or independent league game next year.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 23, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Good advice for all

I’ve three Class A teams in my area and I go to their games every year. It is a far cry from Major League, but it’s good baseball.

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted" - George Rogers Clark

by Carthago Delenda Est on Dec 23, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm aware of that

and just because I don’t like the scores of billion in the game it isn’t going to change. They (MLB) haven’t yet priced themselves out of the market, so I’m sure prices and salaries and profits will continue to rise.

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted" - George Rogers Clark

by Carthago Delenda Est on Dec 23, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

for them it's a job

it doesn’t matter how much you earn, if someone comes along and offers you a lot more for doing the same job you go, I know I would even if I earned a zettabyte of pounds.

by hoodlight on Dec 23, 2011 10:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

you don't like the guys who sign the best deal out there, and you don't like the guys who give discounts to stay with their teams...

you’re all over the place with this comment.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 23, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

if i had to guess i think he means he isn't impressed when a guy will give a hometown discount

and then the media (or maybe the player himself but i can’t think of any examples) make a big deal about what a sacrifice the player made.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Dec 23, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

That selfish Derrick Rose! Refusing an opt-out clause!

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 23, 2011 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

I like how they play, usually

I’m just saying that a multi-millionaire taking a small cut in pay doesn’t affect the fact that he remains wealthy.

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted" - George Rogers Clark

by Carthago Delenda Est on Dec 23, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

you're also failing to realize

that these athletes have a small window to earn an income which they will probably need to support them the rest of their lives. it’s kind of hard to earn a living playing baseball when you’re 65 years old

by moroots on Dec 23, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

the players situation is no different

than me leaving for another sales job with a higher base salary and better commission structure. when you perform at a high level, regardless of what field or industry you are in, you want to be compensated and recognized as such. they just happen to be compensated on a higher scale than the rest of us, it’s capitalism.

by Sox2727 on Dec 23, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

i work under the assumption that it is generally accepted that athletes make an absurd amount of money.

i don’t like lots of things the way they are. it is what it is.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Dec 23, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

this thread is brutal. wu should come in and cloak all of it.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 23, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

that guy who insulted buehrle started it!

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Dec 23, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Seriously? I don't begrudge any athlete for getting the most they can for their skills.

It’s the American Way. You are entitled to however much you can get.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 23, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Flagged for stupidity.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 23, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm with Carthago (paniagua)

It is insane that these people make that much money and that I was too lazy to make more money so I can to all of the Sox games and have it not make me feel like I am a pauper! Baseball makes me feel bad about myself and my lot in life. If they would just give me free parking and a free hot dog, i probably wouldn’t mind but noooooooo! Well said Carthago! My sentiments exactly!

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 23, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

we have already seized the means of blogging.

one day, we will be powerful enough to seize the means of baseball. and, on that day, there will be lollipops, hot dogs and parking for all. one day.

by larry on Dec 23, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Good.

I am sick and tired of sitting in the last row of the upperdeck.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 23, 2011 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I have a question right.

Cliff Lee was 29 when he posted his first mega season, until then he was a two to three war pitcher, like Danks in a way. Is it too much to hope for that during this contract Danks could do something similar? Or maybe Lee was a one off.

by hoodlight on Dec 23, 2011 12:38 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

danks already had his cliff lee epiphany.

they both added a cut fastball in 2007/2008.

by larry on Dec 23, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

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