Carlos Quentin, unnecessary necessity

by Jim Margalus on Dec 28, 2011 6:01 AM CST

When Michael Cuddyer signed with the Colorado Rockies, two camps of opinion formed. People with no attachment to Cuddyer saw a decent but limited player who wasn't the best use of $31.5 million. Those who watched Cuddyer do all he could while the Twins around him fell by the wayside were sad to see him go.

The divide reminded me of Carlos Quentin's situation with the White Sox as he waits to see whether he's staying or going, except it's even more severe.

Carlos Quentin is expendable.

Carlos Quentin is essential.

And the truth, at least at this point, is not somewhere in the middle. He's in the last year of his contract, he has an heir apparent in right field, and the Sox have two other outfielders to start, by choice or by force.

But if the Sox are trying to retool without taking a big step back -- and with John Danks signing an extension, the Sox are even shorter on tradeable assets with which to acquire production -- a Quentin-less lineup would be baffling to bank on.

You can see evidence in the 2011 White Sox's OPS+ column:

Rk	Pos		Age	G	PA	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+ ▾
1	1B	Paul Konerko	35	149	639	.300	.388	.517	.906	144
2	RF	Carlos Quentin	28	118	483	.254	.340	.499	.838	124
3	C	A.J. Pierzynski*	34	129	500	.287	.323	.405	.728	97
4	SS	Alexei Ramirez	29	158	684	.269	.328	.399	.727	97
5	LF	Juan Pierre*	33	158	711	.279	.329	.327	.657	80
6	3B	Brent Morel	24	126	444	.245	.287	.366	.653	76
7	2B	Gordon Beckham	24	150	557	.230	.296	.337	.633	72
8	CF	Alex Rios	30	145	570	.227	.265	.348	.613	65
9	DH	Adam Dunn*	31	122	496	.159	.292	.277	.569	56
		Team Totals	30.0	162	6159	.252	.319	.388	.706	91
		Rank in 14 AL teams				8	7	11	11

OR:

White Sox regulars with OPS+ above 100 in consecutive seasons:

Paul Konerko
Carlos Quentin

OR:

White Sox regulars with OPS+ above 100 in any of the last two seasons:

Paul Konerko
Carlos Quentin
Alex Rios

Theoretically, Dayan Viciedo can pick up where Quentin left off, minus the HBPs. Just like theoretically, Gordon Beckham's second half in 2010 was supposed to put him on track for an above-average 2011.

It all depends on how seriously the White Sox are taking 2012, and thanks to the Danks extension, we're all still guessing. If they're committed to risking a hopeless 2012 for future gains, then put Quentin in the "excess" column. But if the Sox are really trying to reshape for an outside run at contention, trading Quentin could hurt just as much as forsaking Jim Thome for the Rotating DH. As we learned from that debacle, Kenny Williams shouldn't get picky about a slight glut at one position when he needs as many bats as possible.

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Comments

Keep Q, rotate Rios and Dunn. If Q has a good season we could still net some prospects if we decide to offer him arbitration.

by Holland23 on Dec 28, 2011 6:35 AM CST reply actions

Rotating Rios and Dunn

This of course means only one of them can be in the lineup at any time.
what a pleasant idea.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 28, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions

If we can afford it then I say we hang onto him

One of Rios, De Aza, Viciedo, Dunn, Konerko will either get injured or not play well so it doesn’t hurt to have that extra bat. I could see Quentin having a monster year since it’s his walk year. He’ll probably play 154 games, get a huge contract and average 110 games the remainder of the contract.

If anything, you keep him until the trade deadline to bring his value up (or hope it goes up).

Fan Predictions

by striker on Dec 28, 2011 7:42 AM CST reply actions

The team he's traded to at the deadline would no longer receive compensation in the draft.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 28, 2011 8:17 AM CST up reply actions

Interesting numbers from Forbes....

Things have not gone too well for the Ricketts family since acquiring the Chicago Cubs, Wrigley Field and a 20% stake in the regional sports network Comcast SportsNet Chicago for $845 million during the summer of 2009 in a highly leveraged transaction that has left the MLB team with debt equal to 75% of its value. Last year the Cubs trimmed their opening day payroll $10 million, to $134 million, according to Cot’s Baseball Contracts. The Cubs won only 71 games in 2011 and just 75 the previous year. Last season attendance at Wrigley fell for the third consecutive season, to 37,200, down 3,500 per game from 2008.

The Ricketts family has done a decent job of increasing revenue through concerts and other events as well as selling sponsorships for their new Spanish radio broadcasts. The team has also switched telecasts of more games from WGN-TV to CSN Chicago because they get more money per broadcast from the RSN. But therein lies the rub: in 2011 the Cubs only received $450,000 per game on CSN Chicago, or $37 million. A fair market value for the third-largest television market would be at least twice that amount. But who knows if Reinsdorf, whose team gets the same per game as the Cubs, would go along? After all, given how little debt his teams have Reinsdorf’s equity and dividend payouts from the RSN probably suit him just fine.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2011/12/27/white-sox-owner-has-much-to-say-about-success-of-cubs/

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 28, 2011 8:16 AM CST reply actions

overheard at a recent holiday party...

JR to Ricketts,

“…you’ve got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?”

White Sox 2012: Helplessly rebuilding?

by greenlight on Dec 28, 2011 8:28 AM CST up reply actions

Good article.

Thanks.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 28, 2011 9:04 AM CST up reply actions

AP listed final 2011 payrolls

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=7381589

by metasox on Dec 28, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions

Oh no! 37,200 per game?

How will they get by with those low attendance figures!

"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson

by mikecws91 on Dec 28, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions

as alluded to, if the assumptions for their debt service included a higher per game figure

yeah, they might not get by very easily.

by larry on Dec 28, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions

does anyone know

if the Sox decided they wanted to seek out a more lucrative tv deal would it be as simple as them selling their 20% stake in CSN? I’m not finding a clear answer on that google machine (probably not looking in the right places).

by Sox2727 on Dec 28, 2011 3:47 PM CST up reply actions

seems unlikely they would get a better deal from a station of which their owner didn't own 40%.

by larry on Dec 28, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions

i did forget the bulls part of the equation

by Sox2727 on Dec 28, 2011 8:32 PM CST up reply actions

Chris Sale is for Real

Link

Fan Predictions

by striker on Dec 28, 2011 8:21 AM CST reply actions

Keith Law would like a word with you...

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 28, 2011 8:41 AM CST up reply actions

Very positive article.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 28, 2011 8:54 AM CST up reply actions

slider

“…has the chance to become the most dominant pitch in the American League next year and, if I may be so bold, could rival Randy Johnson’s famed “Mr. Snappy” in terms of the sheer terror it elicits from opposing hitters."

boing!

by evenyoudorn on Dec 28, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions

I'm probably "the man," but.............

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Paging-Jimmy-Kimmel-Young-White-Sox-fan-gets-Cu?urn=mlb-wp29100

My serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations.

LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!

by ballyb on Dec 28, 2011 9:31 AM CST reply actions 5 recs

This is fucking outstanding.

Absolutely outstanding.

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 28, 2011 9:41 AM CST up reply actions

The Inland revenue

sent me a letter saying my tax return was ‘outstanding’, which was very nice of them especially as I never remembered posting it.

by hoodlight on Dec 28, 2011 9:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs

"Dear sir, we haven't received your final payment."

“Yes, you have.”

"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."

by RWShow on Dec 28, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions

Yes, I do agree that her disdain for the cubs is outstanding...

but the mom is a bitch for posting that to youtube.
On a somewhat related note my nephew, a cub scout, sent me cheddar boy scout popcorn in a packers superbowl champion tin. Needless to say, I walked outside and threw the thing in the garbage immediately. Little prick.

It’s taken years of practice to be such an asshole.
by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2010 10:35 AM PDT

by rhythm on Dec 29, 2011 8:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs

Indeed.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2011 8:51 AM CST up reply actions

Wonderful.

That is the best belated Christmas gift.

by palehose67 on Dec 28, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions

"Let's make our kid miserable and film it."

Twitter: @JimMargalus

by Jim Margalus on Dec 28, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs

Give that family the 10 thousand dollars!

You mean this isn’t “America’s Funniest Home Videos?”

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 28, 2011 10:40 AM CST up reply actions

The YouTube Comments....literate and intellectually stimulating

“Firing Line” meets “Kup’s Corner” with a smidgen of Steve Allen’s “Meeting of the Minds.”

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 28, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions

The boy child must be "special".

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 28, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

sssshh, he's not suppose to know until he's of age

Packers Season

by OznCoop on Dec 28, 2011 4:57 PM CST up reply actions

Quentin will have a hot stretch, a cold stretch and an injured stretch.

I’d dump him with yesterdays garbage.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 28, 2011 12:06 PM CST reply actions

kind of missed the point of the article huh?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 28, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions

no i got the point.

i just don’t think he’s all that great and i think viciedo can produce as much as he can… plus they are signing cespedes. no need for this head case anymore.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 28, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions

Well if they did the highly unlikely signing of Cespedes then fine.

But if not any hope of competing likely depends on keeping a bat like Quentin. Regardless of Viciedo.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 28, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions

I love the interplay between the 2 losers

of wagers who still have not paid off 3 months later. Please continue. ;)

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 28, 2011 1:37 PM CST up reply actions

I will eat my hat if Cespedes signs with the Sox

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 28, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions

hopefully you sweat a lot to give it the added flavor of salt!

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 28, 2011 1:34 PM CST up reply actions

gross

you gotta keep Q to give the new skipper the option of benching Rios/Dunn if/when they prove themselves to be liabilities.

The hive mind seems to still be operating under the assumption that they both will constantly play, but Im hoping the there are repercussions to being below replacement level with the new sheriff in town.

by e-gus on Dec 28, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions

great. another season of de aza, lillibridge and viciedo having their playing time held hostage by dunn and rios.

by larry on Dec 28, 2011 2:17 PM CST up reply actions

Milledge might be available.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Dec 28, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions

afraid not

link

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 28, 2011 2:38 PM CST up reply actions

ah, I see it was already posted below

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 28, 2011 2:39 PM CST up reply actions

To the "frayed not" crowd, as I imagine told by hoodie:

A piece of string walks in to a bar and the barman says, “sorry mate, we don’t serve string here, out you go”.

Ten minutes later a length of blue string walks into the same pub and the barman says, “look, I’ve told your mate, we do not serve string here, no matter what colour you may be. Now, sling your hook”.

Ten minutes later and in walks a really manky piece of string all knotted and falling apart, the barman takes one look and goes “are you taking the p**s? I’ve told your mates, WE DO NOT SERVE STRING!! Now, get out before I throw you out with my boot!”. The string looks up at the barman and goes, “I’m a frayed knot”…

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070107023252AAQ6eQQ

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Dec 28, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Flagged for groans.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 28, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions

forgive my ignorance, but what is p**s?

piss? if so, who censors that?

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 28, 2011 6:46 PM CST up reply actions

Different part of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss

by U-God on Dec 28, 2011 7:02 PM CST up reply actions

That's my favorite (and puzzling) Britishism

I was led to understand that the Brits in turn are similarly puzzled by the Americanism “fucking A”.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Dec 29, 2011 2:50 PM CST up reply actions

I'll consume my oldest and grossest hat if they get Cespedes.

What are you basing your hope on? A paltry mention of it on MLBTraderumors?

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 28, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

kharma

Dunn, Rios and Peavy mean we have a lot of positive joojoo coming our way.

GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!

by hoosier3 on Dec 28, 2011 7:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

People who deserve and don't deserve things don't have anything contrary happen to their situations every day

The starving child died in the Sudan today and Prince Harry probably received a damn fine blowjob.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 28, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions

This.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 28, 2011 6:43 PM CST up reply actions

i think he can eventually

i bet he won’t next year though.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 28, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions

there is something to be said for that kind of dependability.

by craigws on Dec 28, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions

I, too, am very over that glass bastard.

"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."

by RWShow on Dec 28, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions

Lastings Milledge sighting:

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/whitesox-talk/post/Former-Sox-Milledge-signs-in-Japan?blockID=619982&feedID=621

RIP, Lastings. Enjoy Budokan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrZHXYowMAU

"I'm going to die this way ... wanting to play more baseball."

by winningugly on Dec 28, 2011 1:20 PM CST reply actions

Finally, someone to compete with Matt Murton for the Japanese home run title.

"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson

by mikecws91 on Dec 28, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions

Matt "Guitar" Murton, if you please.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Dec 28, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions

How dare you.

by South Side Expat on Dec 28, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

i'm guessing this will be an '07/'09 type season

in terms of approach, not necessarily result.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Dec 28, 2011 2:25 PM CST reply actions

Fautino De Los Santos is the lone remnant of the Swisher trade in Oakland.

Sweeney was packaged away to Boston today.

by U-God on Dec 28, 2011 4:58 PM CST reply actions

Nick Swisher is like that one really awful, totally blackout hook up you had one night

that your buddies won’t ever let you forget. Ugh.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 28, 2011 6:47 PM CST up reply actions

he is more like that one attractive girl you married and moved across the country for,

leaving much of your life behind, only to discover she was a complete bitch.
so you divorce her as quickly as possible and get taken to the cleaners as a result.
then it turns out you contracted herpes from her and it periodically flares up.
meanwhile, she has gotten her shit together and is doing well with some complete douchebag that you know.

it is more like that.

by craigws on Dec 28, 2011 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs