White Sox trade Carlos Quentin to Padres
by Jim Margalus on Dec 31, 2011 1:23 PM CST
in White Sox News
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PrintIt seemed highly likely that the White Sox would trade Carlos Quentin.
Then it seemed like the Sox couldn't afford to compete without him.
Now it looks like the Sox just couldn't afford him. They're back to where they started, making the long-rumored move by trading Quentin to the San Diego Padres for a pair of minor-league pitchers -- righty Simon Castro and lefty Pedro Hernandez.
Salary dumpage.
It's going to be interesting to see how Kenny Williams spins this trade, because neither Castro nor Hernandez cracked John Sickels' top 25 list, merely warranting mentions in the "Others" field. Kevin Goldstein did put Castro 20th on his Top 11 list, but noted that he "has gone backwards from big prospect days, as fastball is only dependable pitch." The Padres' system is stacked, but considering the White Sox don't really have five prospects, the lack of "top" billing of any kind is going to irk people.
In terms of numbers, both pitchers appear to be projects. Castro, a 23-year-old who stands 6'5", hit a wall at Triple-A Tucson last season. Hernandez, 22 years old and 5'10", spent time at three levels, but when he reached Tucson, he proceeded to record only seven strikeouts over 18 innings.
Links below the jump.
Castro is the key in this deal. As Goldstein noted, his stock has fallen quite a bit. Sickels used to like him calling him a Grade B prospect (via Gus) and saying he had mid-rotation starter potential (via Rhubarb).
Adam Foster of Project Prospect (via Mike) has footage of Castro pitching from 2010, showing his low-three-quarters delivery and highlighting the movement on his fastball, although he said he tips his change. His delivery kind of reminds me of Jose Contreras' drop-down approach.
The only thing I can find on Hernandez is from Baseball Prospect Nation, but I can't vouch for its track record:
The second pitcher in the deal is left-hander Pedro Hernandez. The Padres had added Hernandez to the 40-man roster in November and while he needs more minor league seasoning he could see big league action in 2012.
Hernandez has a fringe-average fastball that sits at 88-90 mph and will touch 91. He commands his fastball well and loves to work both sides of the plate low in the zone. He elevates his fastball only occasionally. His change-up is his best pitch showing legitimate plus potential and increased consistency in 2011. He gets good sink on the change and can keep right-handers back with the pitch.
He lacks a reliable breaking ball but will throw a 1-7 curveball with loopy, soft break. Hernandez has to control his emotions on the mound as he can get excited and lose focus when things don’t go his way. If everything comes together he could be a back of the rotation innings eater or long man in the bullpen. He lacks a viable backup option if that doesn’t come together as without a reliable breaking ball he doesn’t project as a good lefty-specialist.
Carlos Quentin's reaction, via Daryl Van Schouwen:
"I knew from how we had performed with the White Sox below expectation from the fan base and front office that pieces could me moved,'' Quentin said. "Wasn't sure when it would happen. I tried to keep my eyes off news publications to keep my mind off things I don't have control over.
"This is going to be a positive. I'm excited.''
"I've always given credit to the Chicago White Sox for making me an everyday player. As far as leaving, I have a lot of emotions in my heart for teammates. We did under-achieve and most of the guys in the clubhouse will admit that.''
Sickels weighs in on Castro and Hernandez:
Castro still has a fine arm, featuring a 90-95 MPH fastball. His slider has plus moments, but he's still working to refine his changeup. His mechanics are complicated and his command fails if they get out of whack, but the arm strength for success is still here, and until '11 he did a good job throwing strikes most of the time. He still has a chance to be a starting pitcher, although many scouts prefer him in relief. I have him rated as a Grade C+ in my upcoming 2012 Baseball Prospect Book. [...]
Hernandez has an 88-92 MPH fastball along with a good changeup and mediocre curve. There's nothing spectacular about him, but he throws strikes and could develop into a fifth starter or a relief option. I currently rate him as a Grade C prospect.
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Sickels gave Castro a B last season, B+ the year before
From The Baseball Prospect Book 2011:
Simon Castro jumped successfully from the Midwest League to the Texas League last year(2010), doing a good job throwing strikes with his 90-95 MPH fastball. He made substantial progress with his changeup last year, though his slider was still somewhat inconsistent. His K/IP rate slipped compared to what he did at Fort Wayne, but his overall statistical profile was still solid. Scouts like his size and strength, but some worry that his mechanics may stress his arm, though so far he’s stayed quite healthy as a pro. He needs triple-A time to put the finishing touches on his game, but I still see him as a strong starting pitching prospect. However I’m going to give his rating a slight downgrade nudge, Grade B.
Honestly E Im just confused.
Larry, Polo please help me….
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Yes, I had Simon Castro at No. 20 on my Padres list, but remember how great that system is, EASY high-rank with White Sox.
https://twitter.com!/Kevin_Goldstein/status/153190443708989441
Good point larry.
Seems to be a lot of questions about his change and slider. Might need to move to the pen if he can’t develop those pitches further.
I honestly have no idea whether or not they should have been able to get more for him than this.
However, as e-gus noted here, Castro has been a highly ranked arm in their system for a few years before hitting a wall last year. And honestly, I’m not convinced he went backwards like a lot of people are. His AA stat line screams bad luck (his BB and K rates were pretty darn good). He did struggle again at AAA, though both those stints were small sample sizes. The thing I’m hearing most with him is that he has trouble repeating his mechanics, which sounds like something that should be fixable. He could probably use a full year in AAA. He’s certainly got the stuff to be a difference maker and I don’t think his K rate is a good indicator of how good his stuff is.
Don’t know a ton about Hernandez, but his height makes me doubt his ability to stick as a starter. He did pitch well at A+ and AA last year and should immediately be one of the Sox better pitchers on the farm.
As larry noted, the Padres system is loaded, so I wouldn’t read too much into where they fell in rankings.
thank you gentlemen
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
What were people expecting for a return? He has one year left, at about 8-9 million to boot. Quentin has played only more than 130 games twice in his career(130&131), plays sub par defense, and by his own admission is somewhat of a head case and his own worst enemy. I don’t want to say it was a trade made out of a position of strength or necessity, but what were they going to do? Are they going to block Viciedo for another year? As much as they want to say/ believe it the Sox are not going to have Dunn/Rios sitting on the bench making that money. If they would of kept him what then, they get a draft pick or two as compensation. Who cares, their draft history is on par with the Bears…it sucks. It speaks volumes that a guy who is number 20, albeit was ranked very high two years ago, in a fairly well thought of system to the top 5 in the Sox system. I don’t remember who said it but you don’t need to rape the other person to make a good trade. I am by no means a fan of KW, but let’s see if Coop can make a few adjustments to make a consistent motion for Castro. At the very least it could be viewed as successful salary dump with potential reward of a quality starter.
whose plate appearances am i going to track now?
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
alexei?
A lady who loves sports: hockey is number one though. BLACKHAWKS, WHITE SOX AND BEARS
by pierzynskirules on Dec 31, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
your whole world is crashing down around you.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
i suppose i could still keep track even with him on the padres
but that seems kind of pointless. and crazy.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
by BuehrleMan on Dec 31, 2011 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and then randomly pop in on the padres sbnation site to give them obscure details of quentin's hitting?
that would actually be pretty funny. but yes, borderline crazy.
you could track viciedo. he figures to be in the uniform for a while and he’s quentin’s replacement.
you’ll lose your camaraderie with plunkeveryone, but we’ve got some cuban fans who might appreciate it.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 31, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
actually, damn it. it just occurred to me that plunkeveryone isn't gonna come around anymore.
we lost our two HBP juggernauts.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
I blame Ventura.
Never a fan of the plunk, that one.
by mechanical turk on Dec 31, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
tru dat.
i would definitely have to just go by mlb box scores.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
viciedo sounds pooty goo.
though he’s been known as a free swinger it might be interesting to see if he develops a bit more discipline.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
nyeah, crazy doesn't suit you.
"Don Cooper, to the O.R! We have a bleeder!" - SkanchoDanza
by homesickalien on Dec 31, 2011 3:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
and calling it rain
It was then I realized vegans can’t be trusted
by Scotty Ballgame on Dec 31, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Here is a comparison Sickels had before last year - Casey Kelly and Castro -- says they are top two pitching prospects in system
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
kenny doesn't trade for position players very often, does he.
by obnoxious american on Dec 31, 2011 1:29 PM CST reply actions
seems the Sox specialty is developing pitchers
I don’t mind if they stick to what they know
Kenny Williams has no interest in getting maximum return for his players
I’m so sick of him throwing value away.
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 31, 2011 1:33 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
cannot see they would get more than this
though maybe if the Braves had salary space. there would have been more bidding
I don't mind it at all. Q was gone after this year
Get a few arms to put in the minors. C’est la vie.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
yep. i don't know what people were expecting, but the return for quentin was never gonna be great.
he’s gonna be paid what he’s worth. little to no surplus value for a single season rental isn’t gonna yield big-time prospects.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
his AAA numbers look gross, but I guess 18 IP is a small sample size.
6.0 ERA, 1.17 so/bb ratio
It’s probably close to what we should expect, but come on man, its Q!
I’d like a little more.
i would have liked a surprise, but i'd tempered my expectations.
but his defense really kills his value. and unfortunately, he’s just not the great hitter we seemed to have had in 2008.
i know the padres needed help, but if quentin is an everyday outfielder at petco, he’s gonna have to really rake for them.
for the sox, it’s essentially just a salary dump. for that, they get a couple of lottery tickets, i guess.
and the deal seems to suggest that quentin was not that prized around the league.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
I expected more than nothing
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 31, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah with only one year of control and a likely salary around 7-8 mil.
I wasn’t expecting a ton. Castro is actually a solid buy-low right now. e-gus said about that he expected “a former 1st rounder”. This guy is essentially that talent-wise.
well, that was more of a jab at kenny
for constantly trying to revive guys that were drafted in the 1st.
Quentin himself, Thornton, Humber, etc.
Not sure why you'd jab a guy for that.
Those guys were drafted in the first round for a reason, they had talent. It’s worked numerous times. Hopefully Castro gets a ST invite so he can get in some work with Coop.
jab probably isnt the best word
It’s obviously worked out for the most part, but there had to be more 1st rounders on the Sox than any other team in recent history. I figured KW would follow his usual path and find us a Brad Lincoln or Michael Main. This is certainly comparable to his MO.
My initial reaction of ‘I dont like it’ had more to do with Quentin being a personal favorite than the actual return.
I think there's value in that
essentially the Padres just signed Quentin to a 1-year deal worth $7-8 million.
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 31, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
There's value. Not surplus value.
Which is why it’s an exchange of expendables.
by Jim Margalus on Dec 31, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
I guess I just see these two pitchers as
100% non-entities. Dime a dozen times a million.
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 31, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
i.e. – This is the equivalent to dumping Quentin on waivers in my mind. You’d think there’d be some GM out there desperate for offense who isn’t too bright who’d give up something of value for a decent bat/no glove.
i.e. Brian Sabean.
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 31, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
larry, he's #20 on a list. don't you get it?
that’s not good enough. he should be top 5. for instance, if the sox had traded SD for quentin, they’d have given up their 5th best prospect. and we’d have been fleeced!
no, no, no. this is unacceptable based on what dated opinions i’ve read in the last 20 minutes.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Obviously it's not impossible they turn into something
But the whole thing about being fungible isn’t that you can’t pan out, but how many hundreds of minor league pitchers sound like this, “Did well in A-AA ball with a decent/slightly plus fastball, but has no secondary pitches and stalled out at upper levels”?
I don’t really care where they’d rank in the White Sox system. Market value doesn’t suddenly improve because the White Sox have a garbage system.
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 31, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Wow
You guys are really falling all over yourselves to put words in my mouth.
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 31, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
since you're worried about words being put in your mouth, let's recap.
your position is that you would think there is some GM out there who isn’t too bright who’d give up something of value for a decent bat/no glove. of course, you don’t know this. and the fact that this trade occurred suggests that maybe your belief is wrong and that GMs are at least as smart as you are and can see that a decent bat/no glove who is constantly injured and paid about $8M isn’t worth much in trade. so despite your pretensions, you don’t think the white sox didn’t get maximum value for quentin. you think they got exactly what his value was.
Is it really so strange
that I no longer care to give Kenny Williams the benefit of the doubt?
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 31, 2011 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
I have some
To the extent that I think Cuddyer and Willingham are similar players, and that some teams would be willing to spend talent instead of money to get offense for a season, particularly in a depressed offensive climate.
However, in the case of Castro it sounds like Williams believes his depressed performance is mechanical/health, and he’s betting on some of the organization’s strongest assets in getting the most out of him. That’s fine.
by Pumpkin McPastry on Dec 31, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
cuddyer and willingham got 3/$31.5M and 3/$21M, respectively.
taking your comparison without opining on its veracity, you’re essentially saying quentin is worth something like $12M for a one year contract. quentin will get something like $7.5M in arbitration. so something like one win in surplus value. i’m really failing to see how you think he brings back more than a decent pitching prospect who is a pretty good candidate to provide a few wins in surplus value.
And the return seems about what a year of him would get.
I feel bad for him having to spend his walk year in a park that won’t do his defense or power any favors.
I knew he was probably gone.
Just like I knew Buehrle was probably gone. Still stings, though. Yowza. When Q was earning his exclamation point, hoo boy he was fun to watch.
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
Yes. It's too bad that since '08, his exclamation was too few and too far between applications.
I don’t mind moving on from Q, but I’ve always had the feeling he’d leave the Sox and find that ’08 magic where he went.
We see…
"Don Cooper, to the O.R! We have a bleeder!" - SkanchoDanza
by homesickalien on Dec 31, 2011 3:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I get the feeling he won't repeat that '08 magic at Petco.
I know, I know. The limb is close to its breaking point.
And by limb I mean wrist.
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
I agree with your Petco remark.
I see him having a good year wherever he is in 2013.
by ObsidianXIII on Jan 1, 2012 4:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Confused and frustrated
In my 20 years as a Sox fan I can’t remember a point where I have been so confused and frustrated at the same time. When the offseason began Kenny said if we made any trades it would be for major league talent. Then we traded Santos for a decent prospect and Kenny says we are rebuilding. Then we extend Danks and Kenny says we are no longer rebuilding. Now we trade Q for 2 minor league projects!!? I understand the salary dump, but with Rios as bad as he has been this forces us to start him in the OF. If we don’t sign Cespedes I don’t know what I will do.
by MinneapolisSoxFan on Dec 31, 2011 1:37 PM CST via mobile reply actions
they were forced to start him in the OF, regardless.
14m doesn’t sit.
by obnoxious american on Dec 31, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
In 2010 Mike Lowell sat a lot through a 12 .5 mill contract
Despite being benched a lot, Lowell had a higher bWAR that year than Rios in 2011.
Alex Rios does not make 14 millions. I think it’s about 12.5.
A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
by JofpGallagher on Dec 31, 2011 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder what Ventura would do if Rios unfolds another 2011 season by July...
Players should be playing based on skill nor the money they make. Alex Rios contract is insane . A big error. Playing him when he hurts the team’s chance to win games makes that error look even bigger. To me, Rios is sunk cost, and the team should deal with it as such.
I know he only had one terrible season in 2010, but to me that’s where he is going. He still deserves to be a titular player, but Ventura’s leash must be shorter than Guillen’s. Sorry to sound pessimistic, but I declare Rios my new Tony Pena. I dislike the player. He shouldn’t be in the Majors.
For 2012 season: ALEX RIOS is my new TONY PENA.
by JofpGallagher on Jan 1, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
**2011 I said 2010 above, I meant 2011.
For 2012 season: ALEX RIOS is my new TONY PENA.
by JofpGallagher on Jan 1, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
kw....
We’ve had our eye on this guy for awhile
by striker on Dec 31, 2011 1:40 PM CST via mobile reply actions
the same words we keep hearing.
A lady who loves sports: hockey is number one though. BLACKHAWKS, WHITE SOX AND BEARS
by pierzynskirules on Dec 31, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
Q! was a good hitter, and a good man...
He was one of us. He was a man who loved the South Side… and hitting, and as a slugger he explored the bleachers of U.S. Cellular Field, from The Private Bank Fan Deck to Section 159 and… up to… Chicagoland Plumbing Council Shower. He he was traded, like so many young men of his generation, before his time. In your wisdom, Mr. Williams, you dealt him, as you dealt so many bright flowering young men to New York, to Arizona, and Toronto. These young men gave their best. And so would Quentin. Quentin, who loved hitting. And so, Carlos Jose Quentin, in accordance with what we think your parting wishes might well have been, we commit your final mystical remains to the bosom of the world wide web, which you loved so well. Good night, sweet prince.
"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic" - Crash Davis
by Servant2LordBeckham on Dec 31, 2011 1:41 PM CST reply actions 20 recs
Everything's a fucking travesty with you, man!
It’s not robbing Peter to pay Paul — it’s bludgeoning Peter to death, and then realizing on the way back that you forgot to grab his wallet.
by SonOfCron on Dec 31, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This guys lists used to pop up in my feed reader all the time
They were always hilarious.
This used to be my playground
I left early
around 1 AM…
5 continued on to Mordor w/o me
This used to be my playground
by The Cheat on Dec 31, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kind of Excited
I really want to see what Viciedo can do in a full year in a White Sox uniform, assuming he takes Quentin’s spot
Who else is going to take it?
:-)
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
I can't wait to get the real story on what Q did to draw Coop's ire like this.
by FlyingSpaghettiMonster on Dec 31, 2011 1:50 PM CST reply actions 7 recs
This was bound to happen
Don’t really understand why people are so upset, it seems like some are going to jump on KW immediately after a trade no matter what. The Sox have done pretty damn well when it comes to fixing up castaway pitchers, I think we need to wait and see how this all works out.
Viciedo has to takeover sometime, no time like the present. Also, what is up with Cespedes? Google isn’t turning much up.
Oh I will miss him
But they cannot take away the memories from us. It was his time to go… just like Buehrle.
for mark, there should have never been a time.
by obnoxious american on Dec 31, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
word.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
huh. I only showed up to say that larry reminds me of Groucho Marx.
It seems clear that this Q trade comes when sports is low on the radar. The Sox know this is bad news.
Why buy the cow when the milk is kinda bitchy?
by SkanchoDanza on Dec 31, 2011 2:16 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
Simon Castro anagrams/band names
Moon Racists, Mist Racoons, Moist Acorns, Stoic Romans.
by Jim Margalus on Dec 31, 2011 2:16 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
effin' moon racists.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 31, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
From Ozzie's Twitter:
i know u gave me 100 percent everyday on and off the field u r good man suck that we have to face u now hahah sliders away c u soon kid
by Jim Margalus on Dec 31, 2011 2:26 PM CST reply actions 10 recs
Why....
… are the guys I like leaving the White Sox and the guy who screwed up the Sox still there screwing things up even worse?
by LorenzoBandini on Dec 31, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
castro's 2011 does not jive with previous performance
wonder if he had/has an injury.
FGs
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=sa393400&position=P
He’s been killed by BABIP in his two AAA stints. His FIP at AA last year was also much better than his ERA. Looks like some bad luck and probably some trouble with command inside the strike zone.
BABIP will be high if you're getting thrashed.
I’d like to see what his line drive rate looks like in AAA against at other levels. He averaged just over 4 innings per start in Tucson.
"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson
Q! in RF in Petco chasing down fly balls will be fantastic
"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 31, 2011 2:39 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions 2 recs
1990s: Gary Sheffield
2000s: Jermaine Dye
2010s: Carlos Quentin
"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson
this seems optimistic, to put it mildly:
Hometown boy
Player with pop potential.
Marquee name.
This will get butts in seats for sure.
Chicks dig the BOOMSTICK
by eastbaysd on Dec 31, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
that's a comment over at gaslamp ball
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Boy howdy, is he ever!
"Don Cooper, to the O.R! We have a bleeder!" - SkanchoDanza
by homesickalien on Dec 31, 2011 3:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hopefully the Sox carefully pack Q in a box full of styrofoam peanuts and insurance it for $8 million.
I could easily see him inadvertently broken during shipping.
by FlyingSpaghettiMonster on Dec 31, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
So long Carlos and thanks for 2008
Have fun learning to play first base once they see you patrol right field at PetCo
SHOW GREG WALKER THE NEW EMPLOYEE ORIENTATION VIDEO!
Well... I don't have a problem with this. There wasn't going to be a whole lot coming back for one year of Quentin.
We have Viciedo ready to go…. this was pretty much an obvious move. Castro seems like a decent prospect for him.
Too bad it came on the day i spent writing a thesis on the hall of fame though. damn williams.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Well, Viciedo and De Aza are gonna like the move
This is a roll of the dice on Viciedo as much as on the two pitchers. We’ll see what comes of those 2 pitchers later, but Viciedo is now #1 on the depth chart. Let’s hope he doesn’t do a Brian Anderson.
by ruffster on Dec 31, 2011 3:34 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think its more a case of him disliking it for the Padres than "liking" it for the Sox.
Packers Season
You should read the article.
Six years of control on both guys for one year of Quentin sounds like a good exchange for me.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
wow 6 years,
somewhat surprising.
by obnoxious american on Dec 31, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Link
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Sorry its pay
snip…
This is better than just a salary dump for the White Sox, acquiring two projected relievers for one year of Quentin at a salary approaching the likely value of his production. Simon Castro has worked as a starter throughout his minor league career with a solid-average fastball that might touch 94-95 on occasion and an above-average slider as well as a fringy changeup.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
Yeeeeah!
KW compared his physical build and mound mechanic keys to those of Jose Contreras. #WhiteSox
nice work jim! plus anytime someone mentions Contreras i get tingly.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
and the rebuild is on. Wonder how long will AJ last?
Just dont take Konerko. Need some sort of sentimentalism before Dayan becomes my new favorite player
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Dec 31, 2011 4:27 PM CST reply actions
I'll miss Gilbert
White Sox 2012: Helplessly rebuilding?
by greenlight on Dec 31, 2011 4:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
So What Is It Now?
Rebuild? Retool? How about Regurgitate? This off season really seems like Kenny has no definite direction or plan as to what is going on, besides keeping his job. I heard a report that Dunn is working out this off season, but when asked if taking bp/swinging is part of the workout, the report I heard said that could not be confirmed. Last year was the first in probably 20+ years I did not go to a White Sox home game. And so far, the prospects for attending one in 2012 don’t look too good either.
White Sox fan since the mid 70's.
It doesn’t change it, it enhances it. Be honest, tell me we are doing a complete rebuild and start getting whatever you can in decent prospects for guys, and it will be a few years for contention again, great. But this seems like just trying to keep his head above water.
White Sox fan since the mid 70's.
the santos trade and the danks extension each surprised me a little.
you could spot them trading quentin from 800 miles away and I don’t think they necessarily got a bad package. You weren’t going to get a top prospect for 1 year of an injury plagued quentin. Just how it is.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Jim, what player will you be featuring on Monday's page so I can begin to prepare for his inevitable trade today?
White Sox 2012: Helplessly rebuilding?
pleasesayRiospleasesayRiospleasesayRios…
"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."
Defense?
Any chance that Rios moves to RF, Aza to CF and V to LF? Maybe better defense that way?
Regardless, removing Q from RF is a boost to the team’s defense, which is worth something. Addition by subtraction.
Only the Twain had worse team defense in 2011 according to the defensive efficiency stat, so Williams may be trying to fix it.
We Americans are a peculiar people. We are for the underdog, no matter how much of a dog he is. - Happy Chandler
If everything stays as is...
i would think the move is Rios to left. Viciedo seemed to get decent reviews for his first year in right field… i doubt they move him to left. plus he has a fucking cannon.
although this quentin trade really swings the door wide open for a cespedes signing… in which case the rios/de aza platoon would be in left.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
No More Sox Autographs For My Daughter
My daughter had a baseball that she got some White Sox autographs on. It had Ozzie, Crede, Walker, Quentin, and Baines. So, how long for Harold?
White Sox fan since the mid 70's.
Or, you need to get Dunn and Rios autographs pronto.
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 31, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
Should've gone to a game last year and picked up Morel and DeAza.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
can Kenny sneak Jake Peavy into Q's suitcase?
maybe they’ll want him to stay in San Diego once he surfaces
NAOPOS
I like it
We got two baseball players for one!! In your face, San Diego. +1 Us, suckers!
Dave Martinez woulda had that.
by Nordhagen on Dec 31, 2011 5:57 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
I think I have to like it just on the basis of how much I wouldn't like the trade if it were reversed.
And if it gets Jordan Danks on the roster as a 4th OF I plan to call conspiracy. Someone screencap this for future reference.
by mechanical turk on Dec 31, 2011 6:14 PM CST reply actions
"Kenny should have traded for these two pitchers a year ago, when they were ranked higher."
from Pudd’nhead Chimpson’s New Calendar
Happy New Year.
Rebuild offense too
i’m ok with trading q. But it would be nice to get some young offensive prospects in one of these deals instead of just stockpiling pitching prospects. Lack of offense has been a much bigger problem than pitching in recent years.
by Wayne Nordhagen on Dec 31, 2011 10:52 PM CST reply actions
I'm going to wait a while and see what we get out of the prospects before I judge this trade
Unless Dunn comes back from the dead, 2012 is a lost season anyway to me, so I say gather round the prospects and let the organization work on them
We play on the "bad" side of town, we were supposedly cursed, and we wear black. Let's play.
This trade is not so much a refelection of Kenny's limited ability to maximize return...
….but rather an indication of how much baseball has done a 180 on the type of talent that it values the most. Ten years ago, veteran players were coveted. Now with the decline of performance enhancing drugs and the cash squeeze that has creeped into baseball with the eroding ecomomy, GMs around baseball are valuing young talent and are eschewing the older guys with diminishing skillls, are injury prone and are more expensive. Just for grins, though, I wonder what the return would have been on Carlos last year at the trade deadline before he got injured.
Brandon Beechy?
I seem to remember the Braves having their eye on Q! For Beechy. Which now seems like it would have been a significantly better return.
is baseball really having a 'cash squeeze'?
i’m not trying to be combative, i’m curious, as i haven’t read anything that actually confirms that notion.
Cash squeeze
A few teams that usually have money are hurting.Mets and the Dodgers.The Yankees and the Red Sox are acting like they already sent their allowance.Still the Rangers have new found cash and I think the Marlins found a suitcase full of drug money floating in the Atlantic.
but the mets and dodgers are struggling because of managerial incompetence.
not because of economic concerns.
those two franchises ought to have cash rolling in, and presumably will once they get new owners.
the new CBA upped the luxury tax on the repeat "offenders".
that’s why the yankees aren’t particularly interested in going over the limit any more than they are and the red sox are trying to avoid going over the limit.
Trades
So 2011 is over.My question is are the Sox finished trading?Is this what we start the season with?I’m not saying I’m just asking.
The largest tradeable (asset) '12 salary we have is now Floyd.
I expect he will be starting the season with a different club.
2d source
DavidHaugh David Haugh
Ken Williams picks up 2 more minor-league pitches from Jays for J Frasor in trade just announced. KW really should be watching Niners-Rams.
"The game's out there and it's play or get played..."
by Air Raid Siren Stan on Jan 1, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Frasor
I feel like I forced this trade by posing the question.
It seems that in hiring Paddy this fall we also got someone with complete knowledge of one of the deepest minor league systems.Let’s hope it pays off.
Unless we signed one, no we don't.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Castro?
Heh. On the Vicodin already?
We're all here because we're not all there.
by winningugly on Jan 2, 2012 7:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
He's Dominican.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
What, we could joke about our former catcher in such a manner
but the newbie is above this? I see 2012 will be the Year of Living Dangerously.
We're all here because we're not all there.
Thank you.
Used or comprehended with ease – that’s a good way of putting it.
Happy new year.
We're all here because we're not all there.
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