Reading Room: Winter meetings' eve
by Jim Margalus on Dec 4, 2011 6:01 AM CST
in White Sox News
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Enjoy this weekend, for it could be the last one where Mark Buehrle isn't a member of another team.
For as long as Buehrle's future has been open-ended, the winter meetings served as the assumed day of reckoning. Last year, Paul Konerko and A.J. Pierzynski shopped themselves around before coming back to the White Sox, and Buehrle was expected to do the same.
Buehrle's camp has settled on two demands, and I have a different read on it than Joe Cowley:
The latest on the Buehrle free-agent tour doesn’t exactly bode well for the Sox, either, with a source telling the Sun-Times that interested teams need not bother unless they’re willing to start the discussions with a three-year deal that has a no-trade clause to go along with it.
At least half of that bodes very well for the White Sox, since Buehrle already has a complete no-trade clause in the form of 10-and-5 rights with Chicago. The three-year minimum is stickier, since the White Sox originally desired two years, and I don't know if they would want to match another team that went to four. But I'm guessing annual value is where the Sox's ability to retain Buehrle will truly be tested.
Christian Marrero Reading Room
Also in that above Cowley article, he says Williams is setting an exorbitant initial asking price for John Danks, but he's doesn't seem nearly as inclined to move Gavin Floyd, perhaps due to his close relationship with Don Cooper.
Doug Padilla puts a number on trade likelihoods for Carlos Quentin (90 percent), Danks (70 percent), Matt Thornton (60 percent) and Floyd (40 percent).
Mark Gonzales gives some examples of the kind of pitcher the White Sox want in return for their various trading parts: somebody like Manny Banuelos, Dellin Betances or Julio Teheran.
- Minnie Minoso: Is it Minnie Minoso's time? - chicagotribune.com
- Making the Hall of Fame case - chicagotribune.com
- First Latino White Sox Star Gets Another Shot - NYTimes.com
It's also a big week for Minnie Minoso, whose Hall of Fame case will be debated during the meetings. Phil Rogers offers his support in the first two links, while the last one, written by Dan McGrath, is more skeptical. I think. It just seemed to end suddenly with a quick personal opinion that doesn't match the perspective of the rest of the article. But there's a sweet photo on it.
The SEC is investigating how the Marlins received public money to pay for their new ballpark despite strenuous voter objection, and our friend Rob Neyer wrote a nice commentary on it, tying it to this worthwhile article about the Astrodome's plight.
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Mark Buehrle
The White Sox might go three years 12 mi.That’s the best I can imagine them offering.
I wonder if that would be good enough.I love the way he plays the game.
12 millions plus the 3.75 millions KW threw away recently
is still a paycut by 2.25 millions, but ….. we have Frasor!
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Dec 4, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
12 million each year or 12 million in total?
The latter would just be a slap in the face but 12 a year seems almost reasonable. I think Buehrle is looking for something in 14 a year though.
if anybody has interest in reading
about all different manner of shenanigans that sports team owners get up to i would recommend checking out “bad sports: how owners are ruining the games we love” by dave zirin.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
It's now on the list of books I need to get around to reading
This bit in the Governing article sticks in my head:
Most of the facilities are relatively new — with a median age of 13 years — and most were funded with public subsidies. Zimbalist, in a paper with Harvard’s Judith Grant Long, estimates that stadiums built from 2000 to 2006 had an average public cost of $319 million, when maintenance and foregone tax revenue is included.
Pro sports are massively propped up by public funds. Take that out of the equation, I have to think a lot of things look different. Less money for players, possibly less appeal on the business side for owners to get involved.
and unfortunately no different from what businesses routinely do to hold
states and municipalities hostage to get what they want – whether it is threatening to move a team or threatening to move jobs, it’s all the same.
by metasox on Dec 4, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Median age of 13 years made me realize
U.S. Cellular Field is now the 10th oldest MLB park. Wow.
"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson
I have heard about that
Pretty sure they address Bettman’s total destruction of the NHL and the quality of the game.
I think just starting to talk to buehrle puts you at 3 yr 40 mil
and of course the full ntc. I think he signs somewhere for 4/50-60. I dont think the sox have 12+ mil a year for him.
"There's too many (bleeping) guys on the computer. It's simple. I say that. Pete Rose never watched a computer. Rod Carew never did. All those hitters, they go out and see the ball, hit it and move on." - Ozzie
i know this isn't the popular thing among sox culture...
but i think its time to lay buehrle to rest.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 4, 2011 10:39 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
The problem to lay him to rest is
that we have no one ready to step in, so I can see KW doing a deal to try to fix that and God knows whether we may end up with a E. Jackson for little control and pretty significant money and lose a good prospect (of the few we may have) the way we lost D. Hudson.
Without Buehrle we may not be able to afford trading Danks unless it is for another pitcher. I mean, who would pitch after Peavy, Floyd, Sale and Humber? What is the plan B if Peavy gets hurt? if Humber regresses? if Sale was not that ready? Are they limiting Sale workload? The guy has never pitched more than 100 innings in the Majors for a season. Who else besides Danks and Buehrle can give us 200 innings in our current roster? Keeping Buehrle or Danks makes a lot of sense….but neither option is not going to be cheap. Without both I see the Whitesox pitching in a very risky situation. Keeping both may not makes sense (6 men rotation again?).
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Dec 4, 2011 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
I think you pretty much answered your own question...
the plan would be to either go with re-treads like Axelrod/Stewart, etc or go get someone off the scrap heap through FA. If Floyd and Danks are both traded and Buehrle is not brought back, you pretty much have to start planning for 2013 unless some really good pitching comes back in those deals.
I guess I've never really understood that...
Does KW hype those guys in the media because it creates the narrative that those guys are highly touted among fans or media types, therefore when they’re traded it looks like the team is going “all in” or some such bullshit?
It’s not like other front offices are sitting there reading Rosenthal’s blog and going, “Hey! This Petricka guy might be worth acquiring…”
by Craig Grebeck on Dec 4, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
When would he be major league ready?
Does not seem to be any time soon, but who knows…
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Dec 4, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Reached high-A this season.
All depends on how fast his curve and change come along. High-A seems far off, but lots of guys make the jump from AA nowadays. All depends on how he progresses from here.
I hope that KW or any other GM wouldn't put any emphasis on how high the fans tout a player
As we all know, fans can tout some really bad players.
I've been wondering what their plans are with Santiago.
But then again, that’s been the question the last couple of years.
He is a lucky one...
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Dec 4, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
oh I got it
just trying to be funny upon funny, what with all this montero talk with Danks rumours
B-gone.
Hurts, but it is what it is.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
by winningugly on Dec 4, 2011 3:32 PM CST via mobile reply actions
If no one ever said "it is what it is" again I think the worldwide IQ would go up a not insignificant amount
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 4, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Ya know
At the end of the day,it is what it is.
at least he didn't say anything about jake peavy's injury-riddled campiaign. ;-)
as far as “it is what it is”, i love that one because you can’t argue with it. of course some people may not agree on the meaning of the “is” in the saying but that’s a separate argument.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
if one of the editors combines "injury-riddled campaign" with "it is what it is" into a front page post
I will have to seriously contemplate my membership to this blog for health reasons.
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 4, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
The Serenity Prayer has your name on it.
What will be, will be.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
by winningugly on Dec 4, 2011 5:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Thanks, Shoeless
I’ve been wondering if I’m the only person who absolutely can’t stand that phrase
expectations are premeditated resentments - cheshirecat
the line for refunds forms to the left.
by South Side Expat on Dec 4, 2011 9:17 PM CST up reply actions
I have to be subject to Gilette and Heads and Shoulders ads
some with pictures of Mauer. Which, in turn, helps pay these struggling writers. So in some sense we are all customers.
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 5, 2011 9:07 AM CST up reply actions
Adblock
Of course, I’d never use it, because I appreciate the companies that help keep the lights on at sports blog nation.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Dec 5, 2011 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
This is hysterical.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
few FA signings
seems like teams are wanting to check trade options at winter meetings before opening the checkbook on FA’s.
Get 'em Kenny
ESPN’s Jayson Stark had this to say about the Yankees: The Yankees, for example, have told other clubs they were asked for both Jesus Montero and their top pitching prospect, Manny Banuelos. And that price will need to drop if the White Sox sincerely want to move this fellow.
then he goes on to say this,
“The Yankees aren’t going to trade for Danks especially since he’ll be a free agent next year. The White Sox could come down to a reasonable range this week at the Winter Meetings however.”
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 4, 2011 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
he's saying that NY won't send any prospects of worth since they can just outbid for his services the following year.
by Shoeless In SC on Dec 5, 2011 9:08 AM CST up reply actions
Outbidding
The Yankees would be a much better team next year if they were to add Danks and Thornton and they know that.They also know that thier chances of “out bidding” others for Danks improve greatly if he is already a Yankee.
Reyes is a Marlin.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Really?
Wow.
Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.
I'd be scared to give him a six year deal.
He’s got the talent, that’s for sure, but I don’t think he can stay healthy.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
way too much money. 17+ a season?
this guy gets hurt nearly every year. its a serious strike though by florida. ozzie’s gunna have his hands full with hanley.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
their defense at ss just drastically improved
I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE
I sometimes wish A. Rios were injured prone
Does not insurance cover for injuries?…of course one has to pay insurance, and by one I mean the Marlins or maybe the contact has clauses where team and player pays together for insurance in case long-term (60 days or more) injury… I may be showing a huge deal of ignorance here as I have never looked a baseball player contract in my life, and I don’t know what’s in there. I know there are insurance clauses for big executives (Sometimes required by lenders)….but that’s another thing.
I am of the ones that don’t care too much about paying a lot of money to an injure prone player as long as the player lives up his money while healthy. It is a much better situation than having a healthy expensive player that sucks (A. Rios), a player that one often wishes was injured prone like Reyes.
sighed….Reyes is a player that would have looked so great with a Sox jersey….I know I am a dreamer.
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Dec 5, 2011 5:46 AM CST up reply actions
i think insurance will cover career ending injuries.
i haven’t looked it up but the only time i remember insurance being a factor was on the albert belle orioles contract.
from belle’s wiki (because we all know how legit that is)
However, he was kept on Baltimore’s active 40-man roster for the next three years, as a condition of the insurance policy which largely reimbursed the Orioles for the remainder of Belle’s contract
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
here is an article from 2002. It is saying how high it was to get insurance then.
i’m sure its obviously way more expensive now.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Thanks...an old article but interesting
Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!
by JofpGallagher on Dec 5, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
I love that feeling.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Thankfully the stock exchange as you think it is no longer exists.
Even the BoT doesn’t really operate anymore on the open pit, with the exception of a few select commodities. Not quite the same with guys sitting around their iPads screaming out with the big score. Oh, it happens, but it’s just not the same.
by South Side Expat on Dec 4, 2011 10:43 PM CST up reply actions
for some reason i think kenny's gonna do good for us this week.
i have no factual evidence to base this on. just a hunch.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
oh he'll come down in price
KW: ok, we’ll take Romine instead.
Cashman: no, still too steep.
KW: Too steep? Remember Nick Swisher?
Cashman: FNS
by ParisSox on Dec 5, 2011 12:28 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
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