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A rundown of Kenny Williams at the winter meetings

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Rarely do the winter meetings serve as fertile ground for White Sox trades.

That's because, in most years, Kenny Williams has done his heaviest lifting before the meetings take place, operating before somebody sets the market. Oddly enough, his moves rarely set the market themselves -- although it's almost like he tried and failed with the Scott Linebrink signing. He has operated in his own bubble, more or less.

It's quite different this year, for Williams heads to the meetings without a real major-league transaction in the books this offseason. What's more is that he's expected to play a big part in the trade market. This could be a positive development, given his recent track record. Maybe he and Adam Dunn made a pact to change their offseason routines -- Dunn will swing the bat in the winter, and Williams will determine player value based off the environment. Change is beautiful?

At any rate, I did the legwork to figure out when the White Sox made their moves, so I may as well share it. Below the jump, you'll find a rundown of what Kenny Williams did before, during and after the winter meetings in every offseason since the one that built the 2005 team.

Star-divide

2010 winter meetings (Dec. 6-9)

Before: Signed Adam Dunn, traded Scott Linebrink, re-signed A.J. Pierzynski

During: None

After: Signed Jesse Crain on Dec. 20

Notes: Paul Konerko was re-signed during the winter meetings, although unlike Mark Buehrle, everybody assumed he was coming back. The Dunn, Linebrink and Pierzynski deals all were finalized on the same day (Dec. 3), the Friday before the meetings.

2009 winter meetings (Dec. 7-10)

Before: Traded for Mark Teahen, signed Omar Vizquel, signed Andruw Jones

During: None

Next move(s): Signed J.J. Putz on Dec. 11, traded for Juan Pierre on Dec. 15

Notes: While the Putz and Pierre deals were consummated after the winter meetings, the courtship of the concepts started during them. So you can give each a half-point if you care to.

2008 winter meetings (Dec. 8-11)

Before: Traded Nick Swisher, traded Javier Vazquez

During: None

Next move: Signed Dayan Viciedo on Dec. 12

Notes: Here's where it would've been nice for Williams to use the meetings as a potential market-builder. Instead, he did all his scouting while watching the Arizona Fall League.

2007 winter meetings (Dec. 3-6)

Before: Traded Jon Garland, signed Scott Linebrink

During: Traded for Carlos Quentin

Next move: Traded for Nick Swisher on Jan. 3

Notes: The Quentin trade wasn't supposed to have immediate major-league implications, as it was assumed that he would start the season in Charlotte, with Jerry Owens breaking camp as the starting center fielder.

2006 winter meetings (Dec. 4-7)

Before: Traded Neal Cotts

During: Traded Freddy Garcia on Dec. 6

After: Traded Ross Gload on Dec. 16.

Notes: The Garcia trade was supposed to merely open up a spot for Brandon McCarthy, but then McCarthy was traded on Dec. 23, and the Secret Rebuilding Year was under way.

2005 winter meetings (Dec. 5-8)

Before: Traded Aaron Rowand, re-signed Paul Konerko

During: Traded Damaso Marte

Next move: Traded for Javier Vazquez on Dec. 20

Notes: The Marte-for-Mackowiak trade was made official on Dec. 13, but first reported on Dec. 8. So I'm counting this as a "during."

2004 winter meetings (Dec. 10-13)

Before: Signed Jermaine Dye, signed Dustin Hermanson

During: Traded Carlos Lee

Next move: Signed Orlando Hernandez on Jan. 3

Notes: Dye and Hermanson signed the day before the meetings.

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December of '09.

Ugh.

Furious George! What happened to your beautiful face?!?

by AirTrafficAJ on Dec 5, 2011 12:34 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions  

December of '04

I was like, WTF! Podsenick and Vizcaino? That’s all you could get for Lee? Then 2005 happened and KW received a pass on all transactions for the next 5 years. That pass has now been revoked and KW needs to come through this year (just in getting good value in his trades so we have a base to build on for 2012 and beyond.)

by ParisSox on Dec 5, 2011 4:19 AM CST reply actions  

Previous thread: "People need to get over Mark Buehrle."

This thread: “I’d have rather kept Carlos Lee and not win the World Series than win the Series without him!”

by Jim Margalus on Dec 5, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions  

they would have won it easier with him!

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

that's not correct

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I suspect it is correct if he'd been the DH instead of Carl.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

This is dumb

you are saying that you would give back our World Series victory just to watch Carlos Lee in tight pants for the past 6 years. Boooooo!

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

He's auditioning for Mariotti's role on that yapper show.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

not what i'm saying.

i just think the trade sucked. take out the world series win. its a horrid move.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

What Jim said

getting rid of Lee freed up a payroll to sign several pieces. You are looking at that trade in a knob slobbing vaccuum.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

no it isnt. it was a bad trade if you just look at it from a trade standpoint.

the fact that we won in 2005 doesn’t change that fact.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

You are SSH-like in your analysis in this instance.

Awful. Go watch your soaps, fer Chrissakes.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I suspect you could have gotten better younger prospects for Lee

however this sort of ignores the contributions of the major league players they did trade for and the addition of the other players from the free money. You’re just trolling now.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

how am i trolling? the trade sucked. lee is still hitting pretty well.

vizcaino and pods have been released by a combined 20 teams since then.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

And we have something that is eternal.

That’s generally the goal, isn’t it? The whole enchilada? Especially when it’s been 88 years? Come on, Fruity Pebbles.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

you keep leaving out iguchi, hermanson, el duque, etc.

theres a much bigger picture you like to ignore.

I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE

by e-gus on Dec 5, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

because in your fantasy world they also have Yankee money?

I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE

by e-gus on Dec 5, 2011 10:59 AM CST up reply actions  

no... we could have gotten better prospects.

prospects wouldn’t have cost more money.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

prospects ready to win it all in 2005?

come on man, admit you’re being a dumbfuck and lets move on.

I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE

by e-gus on Dec 5, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

take away his saturday posts until he does

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

but would have cost the world series in return?

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

And they also likely wouldn't have contributed immediately

That’s kind of like the point.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

If we are going to be like this.....--->

Carlos Lee never would have walked off in the World Series because he wouldn’t have been up because Carlos Lee doesn’t play leadoff position. Besides who would have Iguchi moved to second or third? Who would have been on first base? Oh yeah, Iguchi wouldn’t have been there. Maybe if we had kept Lee we would have had Jenks at the beginning of the season…..the idiocy can go on and on.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

no, this is not true, see jim's post above

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Why the Fuck would we take out the World Series Win?

What city do you live in? Stop this crap.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

we analyze that swisher trade every other month for the last 3 years.

and we should. it sucked. but lee for two bums wasn’t a good trade either.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

the lee trade is not even close to being in the same category as the swisher II trade

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

if we traded danks for a slappy outfielder who is just as old as danks is and a middle reliever...

it would not be viewed very positively.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

It wasnt a deal it was arbitration years

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Its not regardless

Lee cost 16.5 million over those 2 years. Its relevant. Jesus man. You can’t just conveniently toss out statements or figures that sort of mattered in the overall evaluation. Not to mention Lee’s performance itself over the next 2 years.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

He quickly became a butcher in the field

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

you don't trade a nearly 5 WAR player for nothing.

Should have gotten a good prospect included at least.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

You keep saying this

This is silly and wrong. Did Pods and Luis provide zero value in 05?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

What is the value of the players

that made up Lee’s salary? This is a dead issue man.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

they did. but we traded a star player (his 2004 was a great great season)

we should have gotten more than an outfielder that had a very limited upside and a middle reliever.

you would have been up in arms with that package if they traded quentin for it last offseason.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

You can have whatever opinion you want on a trade

when it happens, but there comes a time to evaluate the actual results.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

A World fucking Series Kenwo.

Jesus Christ. I would take a whole 6 years of suckitude for another ring.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

then what are we bitching about every day for then.

we won the damn world series in 2005! fuck the swisher trade! who cares? ozzie turning his back on the team? big deal… he brought us to the world series! Kenny making garbage signings of linebrink and teahen? big fucking deal. thats a world series GM we are talking about.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Hee.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Im pretty sure

if goggles won us a world series I would let Swisher II go. If Marquez turned in a CY young candidate I wouldnt be railing on the trade 7 years later. Give me a break.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

who turned into a cy young candidate?

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

The CLee trade didn't cripple the organization.

The moves you listed have. Pretty significant difference.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 5, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

you are ignoring how much that player costs

which simply can’t be ignored in a cogent analysis.

by moroots on Dec 5, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Lee was worth 2.0 WAR in 2005.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 5, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah. And then he had mediocre season after we traded him.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 5, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

doesn't change the fact that we traded him in his prime after a big year

when he had 2 years of team control left. should have gotten more.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

I think other teams realized he was a bad body who absolutely couldn't play defense.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 5, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Hence the KenWo affinity.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I still hate Lee for how bad he sucked in the 2000 playoffs

Glad we got rid of him lol

Dave Martinez woulda had that.

by Nordhagen on Dec 5, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

lol. i respect that.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

we sold high

That’s the definition of a good trade.

NAOPOS

by blackoutsox on Dec 5, 2011 11:58 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

not when you didn't get shit in return.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Either way

We would have lost Lee by the end of 2005. No way we could have payed him to stay in Chicago, but we cut him early and got what we could get in a hastily prepared trade(at least I assume so). I don’t believe we sent any money with Lee, so maybe that could have netted us some prospects.

by dasox313 on Dec 5, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

he was under contract through 2006.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Then 2006.

I don’t think we were planning on being able to pay him after that season. Kenny probably made the same mistake as me and assumed he was leaving after 2005.

by dasox313 on Dec 5, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

i'm enjoying how, even with the benefit of the hindsight that lee wasn't worth his salary in 2005 and 2006,

you still argue that the white sox should have done better in the trade. the white sox won the trade. not every trade partner has to be a rape victim.

by larry on Dec 5, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

they didnt win the trade. lee was still better than pods.

maybe the sox should have moved lee to first base where he is apparently pretty good as judging by his 4.6 WAR of last season.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Lee had a 3.2 WAR last year (fg).

And if ‘winning the WS the year of the deal’ doesn’t equate to winning the trade, what does?

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 5, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

not according to b-r

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

buehrle, garland, garcia, contreras

the main reasons we won… were already there.

and he was 4.6 as per bwar.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

i don't believe garland was worth 5 wins that year

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim

my new sig!!

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I particularly enjoy

his reference to the career of Lee and privilege the White Sox lost in not paying for it.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

you were against trading quentin for relief help last year.

lee in 04 was way better than quentin in 10. plus had a history of playing every day.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Again I fail to see what that

has to do with RESULTS you have the benefit of SEEING. Its like you are arguing is was still a mistake to charge Normandy even though it succeeded…..

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah a ws is shit

You’d rather have prospects than a ring? I wish I knew you valued Lee this highly before. I would’ve fucking robbed you blind in that first year of BMO.

NAOPOS

by blackoutsox on Dec 5, 2011 12:13 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

would have won the ring anyway.

starting pitchers were there.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you are ignoring the value created by relieving the White Sox obligation

It should be fairly obvious that the bigger the obligation remaining to a player, the less that player should return in a trade.

by moroots on Dec 5, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

It's simple

White Sox won the World Series for the first time in 88 years. Ergo, any and every move that led to that was justified. Nothing else matters. Ergo none of the moves were bad. Ergo, it is what it is. ;)

by ParisSox on Dec 5, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I traded a toothbrush for a menthol cigarette

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 7:51 AM CST up reply actions  

I traded some sleep for a paycheck.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I wish it was still Sunday

Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!

by JofpGallagher on Dec 5, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Well

Not much of this looks too impressive. I guess 2007 was probably the best looking year, considering the past and how good Quentin did now.

by dasox313 on Dec 5, 2011 7:48 AM CST reply actions  

I going to guess Dec 2004 worked out pretty good

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 8:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Well it did.

At the time, no one really liked it though.

by dasox313 on Dec 5, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions  

No one = KenWo?

Dye and Hermanson were good, low risk signings. Not everyone was enamored of Carlos Lee.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2011 8:42 AM CST up reply actions  

At the time though

He was a young guy that was starting to slug and he could even run given his stature. There is no where, where everyone likes or dislikes a trade. I’m kind of just generalizing. I agree that the signings were low risk-high reward signings, and it worked out for us.

by dasox313 on Dec 5, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Well the point is the evaluation after the fact

I mean I really liked the 2010 off season. Duh.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 8:45 AM CST up reply actions  

No one did.

No one.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2011 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Noone did

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 5, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

who care if nobody liked it

We measure success on how the trade helps or hurts the team…

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 10:09 AM CST up reply actions  

I know I know.

Sometimes fans get angry though when a team trades some of their favorite players. I agree trading Carlos Lee did help the team, the players we got did really help push and get us to the playoffs, hell, even won one of the games with a walkoff!

by dasox313 on Dec 5, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

and most of us were informed enough at the time to realize

the money required to keep Lee was going to be spread around to other positions of need.

I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE

by e-gus on Dec 5, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

based on what? who?

at least provide comparable trade transactions that took place during the offseason..

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe something along the lines of

Mike Adams, Vizcano, Corey Hart, Podsednik for Lee and a bit of cash

by dasox313 on Dec 5, 2011 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

that would have worked.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

it would have?

I didn’t realize you could see into alternate universes.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, I know.

He was asking astronomical amounts in his next contract and we were able to get out of it. I think that trading Lee was for the better, I’m not saying it was a bad trade.

by dasox313 on Dec 5, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Not trying to get dragged into the Lee trade specifically

But sometimes fan favorites need to go to help the team, hometown fans will be upset by this, but will quickly forget if the trade brings in the results. If it doesn’t… well they constantly remind the GM that it didn’t aka Hudson

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Sounds about right.

No GM has the power to see the future. I really think that the Lee trade was good, even though we might have been able to net something more in the trade. He did dodge more of a bullet trading him and getting something then when he would of probably walked after the 2005 season.

by dasox313 on Dec 5, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Dustin Hermanson

Seeing Dustin Hermanson’s name simply gives me the chance to once again note what a valuable and often times forgotten/overlooked player he was on that wonderful 2005 team. That is all.

by palehose67 on Dec 5, 2011 9:59 AM CST reply actions  

The man's spine tried to jump out of his back. Tough to come back from.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 5, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

that blows

apparently you have to be dead to get in this way…Santo is in.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

yep. how stupid.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Not really. Santo deserved it while alive, one of the top 10 3B ever.

Not his fault the writers were stupid and the veterans selfish.
A wrong that was corrected with this.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

so is minoso going to make it when he croaks?

because thats how it looks.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

needed 3 more votes.

bastards

I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE

by e-gus on Dec 5, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

i know. sucks bad. id like to see the breakdown.

and for santo it seems like he just got in because now he died- wether he deserved it or not.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Minnie got 9 of 16 votes

had to get 75%. Kaat had 10. Santo had 15. Hodges 9.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah... i meant the breakdown on who voted for who.

WHO SCREWED MINNIE DAMMIT

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

How much you want to bet Dave Van Dyck didn't vote for him?

Kind of shitty Don Sutton is on that committee.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree Santo should have been in a loooong time ago, so I don't know what 'not really' is

All i said was “apparently you have to be dead to get in this way”

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Sorry, didn't mean it that way. Roland is alive, though VanDyke is questionable.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Hemond was in already.

Hemond and Van Dyck were just on the Golden Era Committee and had votes. I think?

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

per HOF website

The 16-member Hall of Fame Board-appointed electorate charged with the review of the Golden Era ballot features Hall of Fame members Hank Aaron, Al Kaline, Ralph Kiner, Tommy Lasorda, Juan Marichal, Brooks Robinson, Don Sutton and Billy Williams; major league executives Paul Beeston (Blue Jays), Bill DeWitt (Cardinals), Roland Hemond (Diamondbacks), Gene Michael (Yankees), and Al Rosen (retired); along with veteran media members Dick Kaegel, Jack O’Connell and Dave Van Dyck. Hall of Fame Chairman of the Board Jane Forbes Clark will serve as the non-voting chairman of the Golden Era Committee.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

for no rational reason

I have a hard time seeing Yes votes coming on Minnie from the 3 writers. Aaron, Kaline, Kiner, Lasorda, Marichal and Robinson all had careers that overlapped with Minoso’s big decade, so I want to think they were Yes votes, or at minimum 4 were. Sutton I’d guess was a no. Same with WIlliams. Hemond was a Yes but the other execs are toss-ups in my imaginary vote breakdown.

by Titan52 on Dec 5, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

i tried to do that too

Im not convinced Kaline, Lasorda or Kiner can be counted as a given here.
Its all speculation at this point.

I DON’T KNOW I GOT IT FROM MY NEE-NAW WHEN I WAS BUT FIVE

by e-gus on Dec 5, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

the whole list is really a big toss up outside of Hemond

With Kaline, he was the one guy on the committee who was a 50s AL guy- saw a ton of Minoso first hand. If I were going to have even a little in a vote outside of Hemond it would be him. Robinson had some late 50s overlap as well. KenWo makes a good point about Williams- similar time frame as Robinson but in the same city.

But yeah, anytime I look at that list- there’s little better than hunches other the one vote.

by Titan52 on Dec 5, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh. This site needs more pictures (since I obviously can't read)!

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

But at least Roland made it!!

Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Racist.

And I’m not joking.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know about that.

I think Minnie’s biggest problem is that he’s not dead.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 5, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

He was the first dark latin American player
Orlando Cepeda: "Orestes Minoso was the Jackie Robinson for all Latinos; the first star who opened doors for all Latin American players. He was everybody’s hero. I wanted to be Minoso. Clemente wanted to be Minoso.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I know that. I also think he should be in.

But it’s the Santo context. My belief is that Santo was voted in this year because he’s dead.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 5, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

My belief is he's in cuz he deserved it when he was alive.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

No one (other than 815) is saying Santo didn't deserve to get in while alive.

It just sucks that they waited until he died to give him the bump.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 5, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

And it looks like they're going down the same road with Minnie.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 5, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

That's what I was trying to type.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 5, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe. There isn't even the unanimity in the SABR world for Minnie as there was for Santo.

His election was correcting an injustice, not sure it would be that way for Minnie.
Or are we saying the same things? This thread has SO many distractions…

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Minnie's injustice was having to wait to play in the majors.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 5, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

We have no idea that will happen though

Fact of the matter is Minnie should already be in the HOF, his race very likely prevented him from getting in. A players best chance to be inducted often comes soon after he retires.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Borderline at best. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great.

But a choice between Santo and Minoso? By the numbers?

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

That is the question I guess

Are we going just by the numbers or are we including overall impact? At the end of it all, Minoso is going to have a far larger impact. It takes alot of bravery to go into a situation in which you know many are going to be actively hostile towards you because of who you are and where you come from. He was a groundbreaker and ultimately improved the entire sport by opening up the MLB too a huge talent pool.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

well that being said santo was affected by diabetes

that should also be taken into consideration.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

You pegged it.

"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."

by RWShow on Dec 5, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

insulin is an anabolic hormone

there are implications there for performance enhancement.

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 5, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions  

true.

players perform better when they’re not in diabetic comas.

by larry on Dec 5, 2011 4:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I dunno...

I think Dunn should give it a try if he stumbles out of the gate.

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 5, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Santo inspired millions of diabetics to eat chocolate between innings!

That has to be worth something.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

this makes me smile.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Very very nice.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2011 3:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Sortof off topic

But I had no idea the Red Sox were so feckin racist. This was talked about on the radio and I looked for more info

Larry Lucchino, president and CEO of the Red Sox, and part of the new ownership that took over the team in February, acknowledges that along with the team’s positive traditions, the club’s history has included “an undeniable legacy of racial intolerance.”

“You can’t grow up in America as a sports fan and not recognize the role that baseball played both negatively and positively in the racial history of America,” Lucchino says. “And the fact that it took until 1959 for Pumpsie Green to integrate the Sox infield speaks volumes.”

The history goes back to before baseball was integrated. Oddly enough, the Red Sox held a tryout at Fenway Park for Jackie Robinson in April 1945. But with only management in the stands, someone yelled “Get those n******s off the field,” according to a reporter who was there that day. Two years later, Robinson joined the Brooklyn Dodgers, becoming the first black player of the 20th century to play in the major leagues.

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/oct/redsox/

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

which is why this was wrote
"And the fact that it took until 1959 for Pumpsie Green to integrate the Sox infield speaks volumes."

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

ha i skimmed and missed his name! sorry.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

you serious man?

You had no idea?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Not really

I knew that baseball had a history of racial intolerance but did not know the Red Sox specifically were that bad. This was all before my time obviously. To be honest, I’d be all my “Red Sox Fan” (aka when the Cubs suck) friend even know this.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

the city itself, much like chicago, had a history of racial intolerance

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

had/has

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

makes sense

Seems like this occurred in all industrial cities and is still occurring in the rust belt. Apparently every single problem in my city is caused by “the illegals” according to the hicks here.

Its sometimes hard for me to comprehend just how much of an issue played in sports and society overall only a few decades ago. Not saying that the entire issue is solved by any means, but it isn’t as big of a factor.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

hopefully such ignorance in the youth

will lead to a better world. If you can’t remember hate maybe it doesn’t happen in the future. I sometimes forget about the young-ins on here.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

But to be fair, just because a city has an issue

does not mean it will automatically manifest itself via its sports team. It seems like the Red Sox actively worked against diversity in baseball. Making a conscious decision to do so.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd rec Howard Bryant's book but I can't

because it was a disappointment.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

which book?

you read dave zirin? we can talk more about this topic on RRRR

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure.

Shut Out: A Story of Race and Baseball in Boston

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

that city is pretty racist to this day if i'm not mistaken.

at least as far as northern cities are concerned. although some would say chicago is spread out on racial lines too. which it is. but i don’t think things are as tough here as in boston.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

some would say is spread out on racial lines.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Boston and Chicago are two of the most

racially segregated cities in the country today, yes.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 5, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

gentrification

aka Residential Segregation. Lots in affluent areas try to pretend that the US doesn’t have very serious poverty in other places.

http://sociologyinmyneighborhood.blogspot.com/2011/01/is-racial-segregation-caused-by-racism.html

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

assholes everywhere sadly

Thankfully the amount of people who think that way is shrinking every year. Lots of people are not very intelligent so they latch on and attack people that look or act different from them.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

it wasn't a dirty little secret either

wrapped and sealed with masking tape moistened with sweat experience existence of ignorance

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

It was Yawkey who said that.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Santo's whining cheapened the whole thing

And I think the playing for the Cubs and later broadcasting for the Cubs played a very large role. This is all opinion though.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Santo's career WAR is higher than Willie McCovey's, Ernie Banks', and Tim Raines'.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 5, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

santo was off the ballot at one point due to 4 percent voting. i don't know how he got back on in the first place.

if they did it for him they should do it for lou whitaker god dammit.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Dude..

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 5, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

i'm just mad that whitaker got fucked royally and deserves to be in the hall.

how he is off the ballot and sandberg went in is a crime. lou whitaker was every bit the player sandberg was.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I am not denying that Santo was a good defender, at the plate not so much

I really don’t now how much stock the HOF voters are putting into SABR number though.

So be it though, I did not like how Santo went about it. He is in now and I am glad for his family and fans.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Santo in the HOF is kind of a no brainer to me

A simple comparison of other 3rd basemen elected confirms it. I’m not a small Hall guy though.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think that is also an issue

Santo is a good example for the differences between small vs large hall supporters.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes. I'm with you re: small Hall.

Any columnist who ever writes “Hall of Very Good” in a column deserves a kick in the taint.

by Craig Grebeck on Dec 5, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Didn't James rank him 6th best 3B in history? Small/big don't matter.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Minoso didn't whine

You don’t get extra points for dignity, apparently.

by Jim Margalus on Dec 5, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

He did, but it was in Spanish.

Clearly.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

How the hell did Bert get in?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

The whining is why I rooted against Santo while he was alive.

Now that he’s dead, whatever.

"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."

by RWShow on Dec 5, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

are you whining about Santo's whining?

I’ll never vote you in to the SSS pantheon should one exist someday.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

there is one

It solely consists of banned members. Sort of an anti one.

NAOPOS

by blackoutsox on Dec 5, 2011 2:01 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Are you whining about my whining about Santo's whining?

"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."

by RWShow on Dec 5, 2011 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

.x.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 5, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

The more I re-read the ending of that McGrath column...
Bill Veeck owned the Indians when they signed Minoso in ’48. He brought him back to Chicago in 1960, after buying the White Sox, one of several dubious trades that mortgaged the future of the ’59 pennant winners. Veeck loved Minnie, but using him as a prop in some of his stunts, like pinch-hitting him as a 54-year-old (or a 58-year-old) in 1980, no doubt diminishes his ballplayer bona fides.

Can you imagine the fierce warrior Jackie Robinson or the defiantly proud Roberto Clemente going along with such a gag? But that was Minoso, almost childlike in his love for the game.

Cooperstown? I’m not seeing it, and I’m sorry to say it.

… the more I read it like he’s saying minorities should act the same way. Which is exactly what happened in the ’50s, but in the opposite direction (no brooding allowed).

by Jim Margalus on Dec 5, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

i agree with your interpretation

and FDG

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

So we should condemn him for his "childlike love for the game"?

That makes no sense to me. Doesn’t the fact that he was still playing in his 50s make him a “fierce warrior” (which apparently matters now)? That is very weird logic IMO. He obviously loved playing the game, considering how much he had to endure to do so.

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Without a "childlike love of the game", would the North Side have embraced Banks?

McGrath wrote poorly. Too bad it was in the NY Times.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 5, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

"I going" "Who care" "You coulda did"

What is this, blogabull?

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 5, 2011 11:26 AM CST reply actions  

Minoso is also kind of stuck in a hard place

Because apparently he didn’t play long enough in the Negro Leagues to be placed onto that ballot (If I am understanding that situation correctly).

by 815Sox on Dec 5, 2011 11:59 AM CST reply actions  

he was on the ballot. fell short there too.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

oh. yah. well you said "to be placed onto the ballot"

he was on the ballot. just didn’t get the votes

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Ken has a major bug us his rear-end today.

Be fucking accurate or die! ;)

Hey, it is what it is.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I saw the huge leap in comments on the front page and figured Kenny had pulled the trigger on some deal

instead I get Carlos Lee and Santo stuff

baseball season, please start SOON or I have to jump onto the twit-R band wagon.

White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.

by greenlight on Dec 5, 2011 12:00 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

this made laugh heartily

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 5, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

kenny says "f#@% you kenwo"
@Joelsherman1
#Whitesox not messing round, talking Danks, Floyd, but asking big returns right now in seller’s market for SP.
24 minutes ago via Twitter for iPad

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:22 PM CST reply actions  

lol. they wanted to take them with their cousins for a holiday brunch.

who am i to stand in the way!

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

get a job already!

:-)

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 5, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Sounds about right.
jaysonst Jayson Stark
Exec who spoke with #Twins says they’ve asked #Rangers about David Murphy

by Craig Grebeck on Dec 5, 2011 1:10 PM CST reply actions  

no. fell 3 votes short. Santo only guy in.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Fuck

That really sucks. I just hope he makes it in before he dies. He’s such a nice guy and much deserving. Thanks for the info, though. Appreciated.

by Billy Ray Durham on Dec 5, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

i love him.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 5, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Via the White Sox facebook page:

SoxFest hotel guests purchasing a weekend pass will receive an exclusive, limited-edition SoxFest Joe Crede bobblehead doll – one per weekend pass purchased. Weekend passes can be purchased at whitesox.com/soxfest

I was going to ask if it comes with the back already messed up.

by Yinka Double Dare on Dec 5, 2011 3:41 PM CST reply actions  

Mark B

MLB Rumors just posted.
Three serious offers.All for three years.36-39 mil.
That is not out of reach.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 5, 2011 4:00 PM CST reply actions  

I see the Minoso thing differently.

For him to get 9 votes the first time this committee votes is a positive. He should make it next time.

by Rick B on Dec 5, 2011 4:31 PM CST reply actions  

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