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Reading Room: White Sox ease into winter meetings

Considering Kenny Williams didn't show up until the middle of the evening, there wasn't a whole lot going for the White Sox on the first day of the winter meetings, aside from shared disappointment over Minnie Minoso's fate.

The inactivity/absence merely allowed the familiar storylines continued to percolate.

ON THE TILT-A-BUEHRLE: The Miami Marlins are still considered the front-runner for Mark Buehrle's services, with the Nationals and Rangers making their presences felt. However, the market is still developing as teams get scared by C.J. Wilson's contract demands. Jon Heyman has the notion that the first team to offer Buehrle a four-year deal wins.

Robin Ventura provided the only Sox tie. He talked to reporters at the meetings, saying he understood Buehrle's position as a popular White Sox who received far better offers elsewhere. Ventura did make a personal pitch to Buehrle, to which he said Buehrle smiled all polite-like and said something vague "just smiled and kind of laughed."

Joe Cowley noted that Jerry Reinsdorf's presence at the winter meetings might foreshadow a genuine effort to retain Buehrle.

SKY-HIGH INITIAL ASKING PRICES: The Sox continue to dangle John Danks and ask for the moon -- for example, asking for both Manny Banuelos and Jesus Montero. There's nothing wrong with this, at least not while comparable players haven't moved.

LOTS OF COWLEY: Cowley is on the scene, which means that I have to try to extract signals from noise for four days. Long story short, Don Cooper is his new chew toy, and he still might not understand that Buehrle has an automatic no-trade clause if he returns to the White Sox.

He did tweet something of actual note, relaying that a White Sox player said he would request a trade if Williams trades veterans for prospects. The first player that came to mind for me? Jake Peavy, who had previously made it known that he would want out under such circumstances in May and June of 2010.

But anonymous player demands aside, there wasn't much new to digest. JJ cleans up with a few other items in his Day 1 roundup.

Star-divide

Christian Marrero Reading Room

You've already heard my opinion on Minnie Minoso matters, so here's additional reaction from those inside and outside of White Sox circles. Phil Rogers comes through with a clutch piece of commentary, and I also recommend Christina Kahrl's post, as she mentions some other times during Minoso's career where he barely missed out on greater acclaim.

Ventura hasn't yet reached out to any of his players, which Doug Padilla takes as a sign of some serious roster turnover.

Among those in the dark is Carlos Quentin, and as a result, he is unusually verbose to Scott Merkin. He emotes -- and not just one emotion, but multiple emotions! One of them almost approaches "wistful," so, hey, really nice job by Merkin.

Our neighborhood Pirates blog takes an exhaustive look at 28 interesting candidates in the Rule 5 draft. Vlad (the author) includes Terry Doyle and Andre Rienzo on his list, and gives Doyle a chance to be selected due to momentum. "That's an inclination that Keith Law evidently doesn't share... which may only make some people here like Doyle even more," Vlad writes.

It's kinda cute when you can tell everybody gets the same press release. Especially when we beat it by a week.

To nobody's surprise, Ozzie Guillen led all AL managers in sac bunts and intentional walks. But here it is in chart form!

Twenty-five years and one day ago, Gov. Jim Thompson stopped the clock in the legislature. Chris Jaffe recaps the political maneuvering and the ramifications.

But 25 years is nothing. Bruce Markusen takes us back two score to talk about the crazy wheeling and dealing at the Arizona Biltmore Hotel, which resulted in the White Sox trading Tommy John to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Dick Allen.

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Nice. Please post the archive link, No access to radio at work.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 6, 2011 7:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Boiler Room.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2011 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Hope I made sense!

10:13 is usually when I wake up. Also, I was brushing my teeth.

by Jim Margalus on Dec 6, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions  

1971. A very good year.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2011 6:48 AM CST reply actions  

Nice article for the "Pedro doesn't belong in the HoF" crowd.

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/12/6/2614291/pedro-martinez-retired-stats-red-sox

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 6, 2011 7:26 AM CST reply actions  

Do these people even exist?

I just assumed everyone’s pretty much on board.

by Craig Grebeck on Dec 6, 2011 8:42 AM CST up reply actions  

One of them is a regular commenter on here.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 6, 2011 8:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Who dat?

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2011 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

NM.

I am a idjit.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2011 9:03 AM CST up reply actions  

'Crowd?'

I’m pretty sure I’m alone, floating in the ocean on that one.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 6, 2011 8:51 AM CST up reply actions  

i like that you aren't backpedaling.

stick to your guns kid.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 6, 2011 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Of course a total burn-down can't/won't happen

but I’d really like to see it.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 6, 2011 8:56 AM CST reply actions  

The problem with that being

do you really trust the people in charge to start from scratch (or something near scratch)? I don’t.

by Craig Grebeck on Dec 6, 2011 9:06 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know if I trust them or not, honestly.

I suppose that means, “No, i don’t trust them,” but it’s hard (for me, at least) to tell which of the moves have been Ozzie and which have been Kenny over the last few years. The biggest issue with the Certainly-Kenny Moves is the amount of money he’s wasted (Big Fatty, Toe Boat and The Jaw-Jacker). He can still make those diamond-in-the-rough moves (Humber/Santos/Sale). I’d rather watch them fail with young kids than aging, expensive veterans.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 6, 2011 9:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Funny

when I saw the Cowley tweet, I immediately thought AJ. Peavy makes sense though too.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Dec 6, 2011 9:09 AM CST reply actions  

i thought konerko

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 6, 2011 9:21 AM CST up reply actions  

to me that doesn't sound like something that you would hear coming from konerko.

just admit it, you still don’t like konerko and never will.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Dec 6, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

considering at the end of the season konerko said he was fine with a rebuilding process, yeah.

but one thing that doesn’t sound like something you would hear from konerko is words spoken to joe cowley.

by larry on Dec 6, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

konerko also said that he'd accept a trade.

and the sox did try to deal him last year.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 6, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it was Peavy. He said he didn't want to be here for a rebuild.

I read that Konerko told KW that he would like to stay even if KW went younger. And who cares what AJ wants. I’d be trying to trade him anyway.

by Rick B on Dec 6, 2011 9:35 AM CST up reply actions  

i wonder if he does have an idea of that

i would tend to think he doesn’t

Easy chief
We’re a community - Tdogg

by Jack M on Dec 6, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

He is in the last year of his deal

He is owed $17MM plus a $4MM buyout for next year. The Sox eat half of that and he is market rate and the Sox save $10MM. Totally movable.

Probably won’t happen, but the potential is there.

by joewho112 on Dec 6, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

the sox aren't going to eat 10 million.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 6, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Why not? Sunk cost

Why not save $10MM and spend it on keeping Danks/Buehrle?

by joewho112 on Dec 6, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Sigh re: AJ.

Tired meme. Come up with a commensurate replacement.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

aj running his mouth is a tired meme

b/c his offensive production was well below average among catchers with >=1000 PA’s over the last 3 yrs…

it’s fortunate for him that his value to the team relies mostly on the team’s lack of options to replace him (and not b/c he’s good)

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 6, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions  

How do you figure "well below average"?

.724 OPS over the last three years, above the league average for catchers in general. Even among the 1000 PA people, he doesn’t look that bad.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 6, 2011 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I remember him being right in the middle, or average

his .750 OPS even looked good against the league’s left-fielders, which is why I started to opine about a move to LF for AJ last year if Flowers caught on.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Dec 6, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

was going by wOBA

but actually, that 0.725 OPS is also below average among catchers (3-year sample)

whatever the metric, imo, his offensive production – at that thin position – doesn’t do much to back up his smack talk

i’m not saying we should trade him (unlikely anyway), i’m just saying we should keep a muzzle on him, that’s all

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 6, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you comparing him to just 19 other catchers? Seems overly restrictive.

I don’t object to your overall point though.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 6, 2011 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

i know

but i wanted to go with a 3-year average, actually the sample size could have been much more restrictive if we raise the PA’s to say 1500. if there is a more appropriate comparison to make, let me know (i am curious).

and i’ve been ignoring his defensive value, or lack thereof

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 6, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

And who cares what AJ wants. I’d be trying to trade him anyway.

He’s a 5-and-10 player, so what he wants matters a lot.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 6, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Yeah, if it was that easy to trade Peavy, we probably would have done it already right?

He can’t force us to eat cash. If it is Peavy and we do do a rebuild. I look forward to seeing him rot and seeing him bitch and pout all summer. How’s about we burn that contract of yours Peavy? Then we’ll make a deal.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 6, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

There's an amnesty clause in the new CBA?!!!?

That’s awesome!

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 6, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Can someone better-versed in economics explain to me how sensible Miami's strategy is right now?

I get that new revenue streams will open with a new stadium, etc. But given the SEC investigation and the paucity of fan interest they’ve garnered, should they really be spending that kind of money?*

*The possible $85-90 million on six players figure tossed around if Pujols signs.

by Craig Grebeck on Dec 6, 2011 11:17 AM CST reply actions  

The Marlins will load up...

win another world series in the next 3 years, then have another fire sale. The Jayson Stark’s of the world will whine that it’s a travesty, or some equally hyperbolic statement, because the Marlins are doing it all wrong, or something, because the point isn’t for teams to try to win, it’s for teams to amass zany stat lines that guys like Jayson Stark can poop out inane columns over.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Dec 6, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

the SEC investigation is pretty irrelevant. i find it amusing to read sportswriters mocking the marlins' statements saying that very thing.

particularly the ones who draw a parallel to the mets and madoff. they don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. people may go to jail. it’s not really going to cost the marlins any appreciable amount of money.

and they always had plenty of money. they just will have more of it now. and at least it appears they may even be spending some of the money they’ve been pocketing for the last decade.

as for fan interest, they’ve usually had pretty decent ratings on tv. it’s just their stadium was in the middle of nowhere and the rain delays sucked. now they’re about ten minutes from downtown with a retractable roof. they’re never going to know if people will go to games if the team sucks. look at the pirates for that.

by larry on Dec 6, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Morosi
jonmorosi Jon Morosi
Sergio Santos traded to #BlueJays, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and me. #WhiteSox

by Craig Grebeck on Dec 6, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

W...T...F

"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic" - Crash Davis

by Servant2LordBeckham on Dec 6, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Which Santos?

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 6, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

keep in mind we just brought aboard the Jays scouting dude.

I’m sure he’s got glowing reports about molina.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 6, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

sickels
Nestor Molina, RHP, Grade B+: Ranking the Blue Jays pitching prospects is quite difficult. Although Molina hasn’t received as much press as some of the other guys, his performance was impeccable, I think his stuff is underrated, and he’ll get to the majors sooner than the others. Despite his season, he is still underrated by a lot of people.

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 6, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow, I kinda expected Santos to command a bigger return.

Not that Nestor Molina sounds bad- I know about him what you just posted and what I saw on his fangraphs page, and that’s it- but I thought pretty highly of Santos, and he was about as cheap as they come.

by mechanical turk on Dec 6, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

oh no! now peavy will demand to be traded too!

seriously though, i also would’ve thought Santos would fetch more than a pitcher with 22 innings above A ball under his belt.

by vanillablue on Dec 6, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

I would propose it was Q~ just messing with Kenny's mind
a White Sox player said he would request a trade if Williams trades veterans for prospects

White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.

by greenlight on Dec 6, 2011 11:51 AM CST reply actions  

Would not consider Sergio a "veteran".

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2011 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

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