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Ruminations on Sergio Santos and Nestor Molina

Don Cooper lurks behind yet another departure.

I can't say I really understand the uproar over losing a closer on a team that is getting further away from contention. Our discussions haven't focused on that, but it's happening elsewhere. Look at our Facebook page, for instance. The people who aren't happy... really aren't happy.

You know what a nonthreatening team with a good closer looks like? The Kansas City Royals. They never thought about dealing Joakim Soria, and while it made day-to-day life a little easier at Kauffman Stadium, it didn't really do the Royals much good when looking at the bigger picture.

And Santos isn't Soria. Not quite yet, at least. He saved 30 of 36 games, which is a so-so success rate. You may remember my post from October where I found out that the Sox blew the most ninth-inning leads since 1957, and Santos played a big part in that. Hell, even his last save with the White Sox was an adventure, as he nearly lost a three-run lead by going walk-single-strikeout-strikeout-double-walk-walk-strikeout. He mixed in a wild pitch, too.

Santos is a fine relief pitcher. He exceeded expectations in 2011, he's a force when he's on, and he still has room to grow. If he were the Sox's primary closer in 2012, I would be all for it. But I don't see his absence creating a major void -- especially since the Sox didn't build their bullpen around him. He was supposed to be a seventh-inning guy, but made The Leap and held up surprisingly well in tight spots. I don't know if Addison Reed can duplicate his success exactly, but I like his chances of being in the neighborhood. And if that's the case, the Sox are right back where they started -- needing to worry far more about all that isn't working over the first eight innings.

Star-divide

I like Nestor Molina. Not just because his name can be rearranged to spell "Melon Rations," "Moon Latrines" or "Ten Monorails." And not just because I can make old Nintendo references.

I like that he has two pitches right now, at age 22 and with limited pitching experience. I like that he can make his fastball move in different ways. I like that he has four-pitch potential. I like that his current repertoire (fastball and splitter) resulted in 148 strikeouts to only 16 walks over 130 innings. Sure, most of that happened in High-A ball, but when he went to Double-A, he didn't slow down (33 strikeouts, two walks over 22 innings!).

Most of all, I like that I can understand why Kenny Williams traded for him. Contrast this trade with Nick Swisher II: Personality Dump Boogaloo. Jeff Marquez was the main attraction, and he was supposed to have a dynamic power sinker. You just couldn't see it in his grounder or home-run rates, because it had to move to Canada or something. Without a good sinker, Marquez was in need of a better slider, and he never found one.

The same thing is going on with Zach Stewart, to a lesser degree, and at a lesser cost. The Sox talked him up as a starting candidate, but he's lacking an off-speed pitch. That causes him to run into some walls during his starts, which then prompts stories like this one wondering why he's inconsistent.

For all the discrepancies in the reports about Molina, nobody seems to debate that he's two pitches strong. If a consistent slider is what he's lacking, the Sox just might be able to help him with that. Right, Philip Humber?

Star-divide

Marco Paddy's role in this trade intrigues me.

Paddy, whom the Sox recently hired from the Blue Jays to re-establish their international scouting presence, was the guy who signed Molina out of Venezuela. He's also the guy who converted Molina from an outfielder to a pitcher.

All the stories have this, but The Globe and Mail's account got me thinking:

[Alex] Anthopoulos said the trade percolated for awhile and those close to both teams say it was the hiring of Marco Paddy, the former Blue Jays director of Latin-American scouting, by the White Sox a few weeks ago that put a deciding voice in the ear of Williams.

Wait, a few weeks ago? I thought he was hired earlier this week. How long has he actually been around the Sox. Was Paddy a plant? WAS HE WEARING A WIRE???

Or, I can see this shaking out in two other ways...

Paddy knows best. Considering he's watched Molina in every step of his professional progression, it stands to reason that he has full faith in Molina. He tells Williams to ignore the prospect guys who say Molina is probably bullpen material. He has overseen his development, and knows he can be a fixture in the rotation.

Paddy wants to make his presence known. Sometimes when people take over a department, they want to whip out the branding iron immediately and make a mark to justify the buzz. Will it lead to better results? Nobody can be sure. But hey, one of Paddy's guys is now the No. 2 prospect in the White Sox system, so everybody knows he's in the building now.

I have no clue which is more likely, if either are in play. But I imagine there were some internal dialogues that would be fascinating to follow.

Star-divide

Coming back to Santos,it seems like a lot of people are overstating his relative value, whether it's...

Kevin Goldstein: "He throws strikes, mixes all of his pitches, and keeps hitters off balance, but that said, he's very good at what he does, projecting as a future No. 4 starter with some chances of being a three."

... or ...

Phil Rogers: "The deal could turn out to be a good one if Molina outperforms the industry view that he's either a 'mid-rotation starter' or a late-inning reliever."

If the Sox traded a good closer for a No. 3 or No. 4 starter while resetting the pay scale for that roster spot, then don't the Sox win the trade? It wouldn't be a fleecing, but they would have taken an asset from an area of strength, successfully re-allocated it to a position of weakness, and received a little bit of surplus value on top of it all. That's what a trade like this is supposed to accomplish.

It's not wrong to think the return for Santos' very friendly contract is disappointing. Molina just started pitching in Double-A, and a lot can happen between now and the big leagues. There's a chance Molina can never hack it, and that would suck.

But pan it for the risk, not the potential. If Molina meets the projection or the industry view, that would be worth celebrating. Remember: The last time the White Sox traded a reliever with a little less than one year of closing experience for an A-ball pitcher who turned into a "mid-rotation starter," it worked out pretty damn well.

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Good piece.

How many Santos jerseys were being bought? He’s a closer for now, and did an OK job with good stuff. Kind of like Javy Vazquez. Much ado about very little when it comes to remaking the team. Probably serves more to let everyone know we are rebuilding.

And do not underestimate how Adam Dunn, freed from the shackles of high expectations, will have a MONSTER YEAR. I am totally serious. I cannot believe this is not being addressed – rebuilding = no shot at winning = Dunn relaxing and hitting 30-40 dongs. I’ll put my money where my mouth is.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 6:13 AM CST reply actions  

Kind of like Javy Vazquez.

Except that Javy was a starter, and thus provided considerable more value (B-R, Fangraphs both verify), which was of the points Jim expressed (starter vs relief/closer)

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 7, 2011 7:14 AM CST up reply actions  

I was making a comparison of someone who had great peripherals

but less glowing stats re: the traditional (old) methods of measuring success – W/L, or saves in Santos’ case. Just making a philosophical comparison and saying that this trade is not a huge deal but more of a symbol of what’s to come.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 9:20 AM CST up reply actions  

I sure hope he doesn't hit my dong.

"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic" - Crash Davis

by Servant2LordBeckham on Dec 7, 2011 7:28 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Dongs will be hit, my friend. It's every man for himself.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 7, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Gee, that's funny.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 9:21 AM CST up reply actions  

I like the idea in principle

But, like others stated earlier, I feel that Santos should have netted a little more. Like a low-A guy, just to make us feel better. KW seems to throw in that extra guy ALL THE FREAKIN’ TIME!

Okay , done now.

by ObsidianXIII on Dec 7, 2011 6:39 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Yeah, me too!

I don’t care if we never hear from him again, or if he’s named PTBNL, I would have liked someone else tossed in. Isn’t that how major-leaguer-for-prospect(s) is supposed to work?

by mechanical turk on Dec 7, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Its easy to overvalue Santos (given that its inherently easy to do with relievers), since he was one of the few overachievers on a an underachieving White Sox team. Also, I know that I partially over-value him since he’s a nice guy with a great story who seemed to love playing for the Sox. I am also prepared to assume that, never having done it before, KW probably is going to need some practice to figure out this whole rebuilding thing. Rebuilding trades are the kind you have to wait to see how they pan out, so I am trying to reserve judgement. It does, however, give me great amusement to believe that the up and coming Jays felt so threatened by the 2011 White Sox that they planted someone in the organization so they could sell high on a pitching prospect and fleece the CWS for their ‘rookie’ closer. And, hell, maybe 2012 is the year of ‘hold onto your hat, its going to be a bumpy ride’. But, I am clinging to the hope that it can’t possibly be more painful than last year.

by kwiell on Dec 7, 2011 6:42 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

I've come to the conclusion that baseball is like politics

No matter what you do the majority aren’t going to like what you did, and the press are going to play that angle.

Great write up. I agree with your talking points:
- The Paddy connection
- Trading from a strength
- Trading from a low valued position for a higher valued position

I don’t understand why everyone makes a #3 or #4 starter sound like a bad thing. Yes Santos was cheap but Harang is going to make $6m as a #3 or #4 this year, that’s more than Molina will make combined the next 4 years.

Another angle to look at it, your pitchers are going to throw around 1,400 innings a year combined. Santos is going to give you 60-70 good innings. Now you’ve just traded for someone that at worst will give you 60-70 good innings but has the potential to give you 200 good innings.

by striker on Dec 7, 2011 7:32 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed on the #3 starter thing

That’s a nice pitcher to have. We should know, that’s basically the 2011 Sox rotation outside of Danks.

by Titan52 on Dec 7, 2011 8:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Also agreed.

Since, to be honest, the 2011 Sox rotation didn’t lose the season last year.

by kwiell on Dec 7, 2011 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, people treat a #3 starter like it's the furry carpet that covers the spare tire in the trunk.

John Danks was a #3 starter. Smoltz was a #3 starter. Zito was a #3 starter with the A’s, and won the Cy Young.

We could have traded freezer frost for Steven Strassbourg, and everyone would be complaining.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Dec 7, 2011 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

This.

Well, the no. 3 stuff at least. Since when is mid-rotation ceiling bad? And Molina’s floor seems to be higher than the Lance Broadways of the world.

(And I know Molina’s floor probably shouldn’t be talked about given his lack of innings pitched and all that.)

by Craig Grebeck on Dec 7, 2011 9:49 AM CST up reply actions  

When I think of a 3, I think of Gavin Floyd

A solid average to above average starter. Reliable, has his moments, doesn’t kill you. A 4 has more rocky nights, and a 5 is Bartolo Colon circa now. You trot him out there and pray: sometimes it works, a lot of times it doesn’t.

by Titan52 on Dec 7, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

There's a difference between being the third starter on a staff and having third starter stuff.

Smoltz and Zito we’re third starters because they were on incredibly talented staffs.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 7, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

This

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 7, 2011 10:12 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Except that the Sox are the ones taking most of the risk.

All of the projections are assuming no injuries. Any young pitcher has the chance of his arm failing under the stress.

by ObsidianXIII on Dec 7, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions  

This is a good writeup

and provides good perspective. However, trading with AA hasn’t exactly gone well for pretty much anyone, and I certainly don’t think KW can get one over on him without getting lucky. Hoping time will prove this fear wrong.

by Gentleman Jim on Dec 7, 2011 8:00 AM CST reply actions  

I think St Louis would disagree

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 7, 2011 9:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Favorite part of the trade

Got to click on the link of Sal Fasano’s recap, local guy and greatest handle bar mustache in the bigs!!!!!!!!!

by Knoxfire30 on Dec 7, 2011 8:25 AM CST reply actions  

Paddy

So here is my question.

What else do you have for us Paddy?

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 7, 2011 8:25 AM CST reply actions  

"What Else do you have for us Paddy"

Sounds like the title of an ancient drinking song.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 7, 2011 8:32 AM CST up reply actions  

It's interesting reading comments on this trade

A lot of people are using the term elite closer to describe Santos. Though I think he has nasty stuff, I’m not sure how you can label a guy with an 83% save success rate elite. Out of the top 30 save leaders last year, Santos ranked 22nd in save success percentage. Not exactly elite.

by striker on Dec 7, 2011 8:41 AM CST reply actions  

i think its more

santos has the skill set to be elite, while already showing he is a capable mlb closer (his floor is not that far from his ceiling)

thats a much closer projection then molina who is capable of being a 3-4 starter but has only proven to be effective at Single A for any real length of time and has very few innings in AA (his floor is complete bust which is very far from his ceiling of a reliable middle rotation mlb starter)

by Knoxfire30 on Dec 7, 2011 8:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Some of the RP deals that have been made make me feel good about Thornton's market

Though that just may be teams negotiating against themselves and overpaying for reasons unknown. How does Frank Francisco get 2/$12 and how do the Mets justify paying so much when they look like a team that will fight to finish third?

Guh.

by Craig Grebeck on Dec 7, 2011 8:53 AM CST reply actions  

i agree

thorntons contract looks good compared to some of these bums getting similiar money

however

maybe its just message board garbage, but seems whenever thorntons name has come up in talks for Atlanta, New York, St. Louis seems like those fan bases consider thornton a loogy only good vs lefties who is viewed as a salary dump not someone who can bring back an asset in a trade….

I should hope GMs and Scouts think much more of him.

by Knoxfire30 on Dec 7, 2011 9:03 AM CST up reply actions  

thank you for the "calm down" post

as always, a pleasure to read

White Sox 2012: Helplessly hoping.

by greenlight on Dec 7, 2011 8:55 AM CST reply actions  

Slightly OT... Cowley goes behind (partial) paywall tomorrow.

Access to web sites controlled by Sun-Times Media LLC will be governed by a "metered" pay plan starting Thursday. Web site users will get 20 free page views at any Sun-Times-affiliated site every 30 days, and will be required to buy an online subscription for additional access.

"We think the time is long overdue for us to begin charging for our content," said Jeremy Halbreich, Sun-Times Media chairman. "It is certainly award-winning content and we need to find new ways to support it."

Online subscriptions will be $1.99 per four weeks for home-delivery customers. Digital-only subscribers will be charged $6.99 every four weeks, or they can pay $77.87 for yearlong access.

Subscribers to any of 40 newspapers that are part of Sun-Times Media will qualify for the $1.99 rate, regardless of which paper they want to access.

http://www.suntimes.com/9284143-417/sun-times-media-online-sites-to-begin-metered-pay-plan.html

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 7, 2011 9:31 AM CST reply actions  

Good luck with that.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

haha, yeah

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 7, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

I wonder how it has worked for the Daily Herald.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 7, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

The Daily Herald reported on this

and their sub-headline was something like, “The Sun-Times Follows The Daily Herald into the Digital Age with Paid Content”.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Dec 7, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

People want to watch porn.

Not so sure they want to read the Sun-Times/Daily Herald.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 7, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

People need to watch porn.

Fixed.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Has the Sun-Times considered more nudity?

Seems like something they would have done during Murdoch’s ownership.

by Titan52 on Dec 7, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

As long as Cowley isn't involved in the nudity.

"They're a dead team walkin'." - Joe Cowley commentary on the Sox 2012 rebuilding year (WSCR interview, 12/7/11)

by tailgater on Dec 7, 2011 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Dear God, this.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 7, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

they do on Biggest Loser too

just sayin’

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Dec 7, 2011 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

what content of their's is worth paying for?

maybe more of a general question to the viability of the pay-wall model

Easy chief
We’re a community - Tdogg

by Jack M on Dec 7, 2011 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

that's rich

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 7, 2011 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I've been getting free Sun-Times to my doorstep for 3+ years now and have no idea why

I’ll keep you in the loop.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

No thanks?

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 7, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

i was wrong.

he’s still busy embarrassing himself in front of the entire baseball media world.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/braves-white-sox-discussing-matt-thornton.html

1:37pm: A potential trade of White Sox lefty reliever Matt Thornton to the Braves is picking up steam, tweets Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times. However, David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution says this one’s not happening.

1:53pm: This rumor is bogus, tweets O’Brien.

lol

by obnoxious american on Dec 7, 2011 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

As much as I think the vast majority of Cowley's stuff is either totally invented or distorted beyond recognition,

you have to admit that he’s been up on the occasional deal sometimes days before anyone else in the past. His signal-to-noise ratio is so low that it’s impossible to pick those things out, and even when he’s right it needs to be taken with a whole heaping pile of salt, but it’s not to the point where if he says something I assume the opposite is true.

by mechanical turk on Dec 7, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Here, watch this:

KW is very close on acquiring a couple of prospects for Quentin to the NL!!

…developing

See? If he gets traded to the Padres for prospects, I’m a freaking ace reporter! If not, I still am.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Dec 7, 2011 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Joe Cowley: Sports Weatherman.

The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.

by Uribe Down on Dec 7, 2011 6:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Delete cookies

Retain Free Access

This used to be my playground

by The Cheat on Dec 7, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

fewer quotes from Cowley?

that could be a good thing.

when the nyt did something like that, dowd and rich pretty much fell off the map.

by tommyjoepeters on Dec 7, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

The Padres just acquired Huston Street.

He’ll be sure to nail down 30 of their 72 wins.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 10:06 AM CST reply actions  

Lovin it.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 7, 2011 10:07 AM CST up reply actions  

for a PTBNL none-the-less

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

yah but they are paying for most if not all of his salary. 7.5 million!

why don’t they take that and get somebody that can hit the fucking ball.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

It'll be interesting to see what they can flip him for after reinflating his value in Petco.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 7, 2011 10:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Good job Sox.

Step 1 is admitting you have a problem, and I am more than relieved that KW has done that, instead of insisting this is a winning team.

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Dec 7, 2011 10:17 AM CST reply actions  

I enjoy your metaphor of addictions treatment.

I believe Kenny just might be addicted to the deal – he has to have the action to feel satisfied.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

yikes

can’t wait for the “inventory” stage

by ruffster on Dec 7, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

nice write-up and analysis

the thought of being compared to the Royals hurts, unless it’s the 70’s and Brett is playing 3rd for them.

it’s sort of a “meh” trade to me. I just hope whoever is closing next year isn’t worse than Santos was. 83% isn’t awesome even if he does have pretty good stuff.

by ruffster on Dec 7, 2011 10:35 AM CST reply actions  

Swisher trades

getting worser and worser.

My serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations.

LET’S GO YOU WHITE SOX!!!!!

by ballyb on Dec 7, 2011 10:48 AM CST reply actions  

/CHORTLE

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 7, 2011 11:10 AM CST reply actions  

MISSTURY TEEM!

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

it moved. twice.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

that's a very precise beard

must spend hours trimming that. When I try to grow a beard it always ends up looking like the hair
on a tarts fanny.

by hoodlight on Dec 7, 2011 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Buehrle
JIM BOWDEN
Mark Buehrle has reduced the teams he’s going to sign to 3 and decision expected to be made within 24 hours

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 11:41 AM CST reply actions  

(Sigh). Thank you for every single pitch, inning and out, Mark Buehrle.

No matter who you sign with, you’ll always have carte blanche in my book.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 7, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

If it was anybody but Buehrle

I would say the ship has sailed. But considering how much he values stability and him having the built in no trade clause with the Sox, I still have a glimmer of hope. Especially with Reinsdorf himself at the meetings. Especially when the alternative is going to a team with a reputation for shady ownership who wont give you a no trade and is already being investigated.

Also, KW said it wasn’t happening yesterday, and that they were rebuilding, so it makes all the sense in the world (based on Sox history) they would sign him now.

by MelidoPerez on Dec 7, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

He gone.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe
Phil Rogers
One person close to M Buehrle says he’s nervous about a move. If comfort is a big factor, teams that fit are #whitesox, #cubs and #marlins.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

That would mean KW had given him assurances of no complete rebuild

I don’t recall that conversation

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 7, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he will stay

If you offered me 6/4 or better I’d put a few quid on it

by hoodlight on Dec 7, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

hair on a quim?

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 7, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

fanny - I always find it amusing you associate it with a back side

I bet there have been some great stories over the years with tourists coming to the UK and using that one.

by hoodlight on Dec 7, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

So that's why the bloke at the pub was gobsmacked

when I told him to kiss my fanny. Then he kicked me in the goolies!

"They're a dead team walkin'." - Joe Cowley commentary on the Sox 2012 rebuilding year (WSCR interview, 12/7/11)

by tailgater on Dec 7, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Tart's aren't usually hairy.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 7, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I believe

‘tart’ can also be British slang for ‘fairy’ or ‘queer.’ But I’m not expert.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 8, 2011 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

that may be true...

urban dictionary confirms that at least. but he’s saying his facial hair grows in very poorly. kinda like the hair on a tart’s fanny. So… the analogy fits.

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 8, 2011 8:59 AM CST up reply actions  

It's a fair book that

you can also have 5/1 any unquoted

by hoodlight on Dec 7, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

sometimes i have to give the devil his due. once in a while ozzie makes me laugh.
Paul Sullivan
@OzzieGuillen threatened to kill me and dump me in Alligator Alley. “But alligators won’t want to eat you.”

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 12:18 PM CST reply actions  

My sides are SPLITTING!!!

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 7, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

kenwo cries.

bedard to pirates for $4.5 million.

by larry on Dec 7, 2011 1:04 PM CST reply actions  

you!

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

good signing for the pirates, imo

not every trade partner has to be a rape victim. by larry on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 7, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Cheap.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

the plan is ruined! RUINED!

That is a hell of a deal for the pirates.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Winter Meetings so far

YAWN

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 7, 2011 1:46 PM CST reply actions  

I told my boss that I am going to get nothing done until Pujols signs

then I told him to go make a pot of coffee. He laughed his ass off.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

"PUT THAT COFFEE DOWN!"

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

More like Put that IPhone down!

at least Words with Friends.
J down… Jerk.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 7, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

The eff you talking about?

Between here and FB you are confusing the hell out of me.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I surpassed my goal for the year

the rest of the year is coast, business development and try to close a few things to bring into the new year. Christmas Party on 17th, Bears game 18th, boss gives Birthday off (mine is the 19th). Our Xmas auction is the 22nd at noon (boss buys items/gadgetry/giftcards/snow blowers/ipad etc and the AE’s compete against each other with Monopoly money we have been paid for certain activity and production since October) then our office is closed from 12/22 – 1/3. All I have to worry about is purchasing Xmas presents and alot of times after the Xmas auction my shopping is done.
December is truly the slowest month for hiring, unless you have had an interviewing process going a month or two that carries over.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Christ Almighty.

You must be tired rising from the dead every year.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

whatever you're drinking, please continue

you are on fire today!

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Dec 7, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

decemeber is a clusterfuck, always has been

I learned early that it is wrong to expect anything from anyone on your birthday

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

yea & it gets better as you get older

Happy early b-day Rhub, because I won’t remember on the 19th. So, are you legal yet, YPOS? :)

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Dec 7, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I am 64, I live in a home

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you still needed? Are you still feeded?

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 7, 2011 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Sunday greetings, go for a ride?

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Dec 7, 2011 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

sorry, not in the form of a question

maybe I’m in a home?

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Dec 7, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks for the early bday wishes anyhow

I’ll be 33 this year

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Birthday greetings bottle of wine?

damn! See? I can’t remember shit! I got 11 on you. I’m really screwed in the next 10.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Dec 7, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting.

The year Belushi OD’ed and Jesus was crucified. Good luck!

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Good luck with 96 next year

The year Col. Potter died!

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

aha.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 7, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

My brother Dec.26

This shoe is for Christmas…the other shoe is for your birthday.
This half of the teddybear is for Chritmas the other half is for your birthday.
Brutal

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 7, 2011 5:17 PM CST up reply actions  

mine is the 18th. how old will this one make you?

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 7, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

gotta wait for a few signings.

if pujols/wilson/buehrle sign… all of a sudden the offers for the sox pitching and gio go up

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Marlins offer Wilson 6 years

What a mess that place is going to be

by MelidoPerez on Dec 7, 2011 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I dig stupid money.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

love this

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 7, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

gonna be hard to muster the hate for the marlins that i've developed for the heat.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 7, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

If it makes any of you feel better I just owned Cowley on twitter...

I’m @HalloweenHalpin

"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic" - Crash Davis

by Servant2LordBeckham on Dec 7, 2011 2:17 PM CST reply actions  

Good god, man.
cst_Cowley
[Series of tweets about how the Cubs and Sox didn’t want him]

HalloweenHalpin
@cst_Cowley That’s because nobody likes you and you are a horrible human being. Stop crying and work on being a better reporter. #cowleysux

cst_Cowley
So I took my talents to the Miami table and had a great lunch with the Marlins beat writers, @oguillenjr and @OzzieGuillen.

HalloweenHalpin
@cst_Cowley Did you hold hands or head straight for second base? Lord knows @OzzieGuillen would bunt you over there…

cst_Cowley
@HalloweenHalpin That’s funny. I like funny.

"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson

by mikecws91 on Dec 7, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Ortiz accepts arb.

i think we may have lost a suitor for quentin

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 2:20 PM CST reply actions  

Didn't match up well anyways.

We’d been in talks with them, but hadn’t found anything.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 7, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Rosenthal tweet

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Source: #Nationals, #Marlins finalists for Buehrle. And if Marlins get C.J., that seemingly would leave Buehrle for Nats. #MLB

Buehlre going to a non contender in DC?

by MelidoPerez on Dec 7, 2011 2:48 PM CST reply actions  

whelp

I’ve always liked the nationals. Could use a new NL team after my decades long pirate love fest has ended.

by coffeepac on Dec 7, 2011 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

They won't be a non-contender for long.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 7, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Just wait.

More revenue their way in the next 2-3 years. I can’t say why (confidentiality), but think how Marlins are getting their shiny new revenues.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Well I was referring to the talent they have in Starsburg, Harper, Desmond,

the Zimmerman(n)s, etc and the decline I believe the Phillies are in for.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 7, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I know.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

That's the way I look at it

The Marlins are going big now because there’s a window here with the Phillies aging and the Nats a year or two away.

But if all goes according to plan for the Nats they’ll be something. And the Marlins- if they keep the spending spree up, you can just see the fire sale coming in a couple years.

by Titan52 on Dec 7, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

You can only have a fire sale if there is buyers

I could see a Ranger-like MLB bailout

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Truth

Or something Met-like.

by Titan52 on Dec 7, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

There will be no need.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

explain

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Think Marlin stupid money source.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 3:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I bought into the Phillies aging thing last year

It didn’t end up mattering. They can trot out past their prime position players, it doesn’t really matter as long as they are getting nearly 700 innings of elite SP.

by MelidoPerez on Dec 7, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

taxpayers?

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 7, 2011 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Mmmm.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

In a few years

But if Buehlre is signing a three year deal, they will be competing with the Marlins before their disaster, the Braves who are pretty well stocked, and while Lee/Hamels/Halladay are still elite. Going to be tough to break through. In 4-5 years for sure.

by MelidoPerez on Dec 7, 2011 2:54 PM CST reply actions  

USE THE REPLY BUTTON!

;)

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Hanley asks for renegotiated contract for position change

Marlins angry, trying to trade him to free up money for Fielder. Marlins 6 year deal on table for Wilson, 4 for Buehrle. It’s like they are running a fantasy team. Highly entertaining.

by MelidoPerez on Dec 7, 2011 3:22 PM CST reply actions  

so you're saying we can sign buehrle

and them trade him with rios for hanley ramirez?

by ndsoxfan on Dec 7, 2011 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

heavy heavy sarcasm

by ndsoxfan on Dec 7, 2011 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Olney

Which was of course followed up by the Marlins “nothing to see here” denials.

by MelidoPerez on Dec 7, 2011 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Buehrle to Marlins

4 years/58 mil

per ken rosenthal

"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic" - Crash Davis

by Servant2LordBeckham on Dec 7, 2011 3:50 PM CST reply actions  

Flagged.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 7, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

14.5 mil a year for 4 seasons. jesus christ.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

AKA mechanical tutlrk.

Do not blame MB. Last big contract. No state tax. New stadium. And Heath Bell closing. I’d suck it up, too.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 3:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Turk.

Elfin’ iPhone.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 3:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Effin'.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2011 3:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions   2 recs

not at all. good for him

i also don’t blame the sox for passing.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!

Taking a walk in a donkey park listening to the wind of change

by LT_sox_fan on Dec 7, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

God dammit.

"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."

by RWShow on Dec 7, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess

I love Buehrle but holy moly.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 7, 2011 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, i'm ignoring all the contract stuff and the actual feasibility just now.

for the moment i’m just going with emotional reaction. really hoped he’d be in a white sox jersey for his whole career.

by craigws on Dec 7, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

good for him i suppose

Easy chief
We’re a community - Tdogg

by Jack M on Dec 7, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I fear the amount of stupid this will stir up

among our fellow Sox fans. “Shoulda kept Ozzie,” etc.

by Titan52 on Dec 7, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

claydavis.jpg

Good for him. I wish the Sox had got him, but I don’t see them giving out that kind of contract to Buehrle under any circumstances. That’s more than his 2007 contract. I’ll miss him.

by mechanical turk on Dec 7, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

By a total of $2mil

With inflation, that’s probably a slightly worse contract. But no way the Sox were going to offer anything close to that.

by ObsidianXIII on Dec 7, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions  

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