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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

White Sox steer clear of Arizona Fall League's pull

Terry Doyle is living proof of the power of the Arizona Fall League.

We are well acquainted with the AFL's pull. Kenny Williams traded for Jeff Marquez and Tyler Flowers due in large part to what he saw in the desert. Jordan Danks revived his prospect stock with a nice showing, although he was upstaged by Brent Morel, who rolled off the couch as an emergency replacement and won the league's batting title in 2009. And it was only last season when the previously role-less Anthony Carter turned 10 outstanding innings into a 40-man roster spot.

Doyle took it one step further with a 1-2 punch of publicity. Not only did he put together a tremendous season of fall ball (4-0 with a 1.98 ERA and a 0.62 WHIP over 27 innings), but he also had a unique back story with his substitute teacher career that earned him multiple features. In the middle of the summer, he was a mostly anonymous 25-year-old in A-ball. By end of the AFL, Scott Merkin was taking questions from people who demanded to know why Doyle wasn't protected. Plus, that video up there!

Star-divide

Sure enough, the Minnesota Twins picked him in the Rule 5 draft on Thursday. And as Larry noted, the Twins actually make their Rule 5 picks with the intent of using them. So after years of being slow-tracked by the White Sox for organizational purposes, Doyle is now in position to earn a 25-man roster spot. Bully for him, seriously.

Meanwhile, the Sox confirmed with words what their actions already said:

"In the industry, he definitely made quite an impression in the Fall League. He threw well down there," said White Sox director of baseball operations Dan Fabian of Doyle. "Terry Doyle is a nice pitcher. It just was a decision made that, looking at our long term, we had players we felt that we needed to get on the 40-man before Terry Doyle."

The White Sox had room on the 40-man roster entering the winter meetings, and they didn't fill any of the open seats during the week. So there wasn't any real pressing need for the space -- they just weren't buying what Doyle was selling.

Then again, one player on the 40-man is living proof of how the AFL bubble can burst. In 2010, Anthony Carter used fall ball to slingshot from organizational filler status to a spot on the end of Baseball America's Top 10 White Sox Prospects list. Considering he didn't have a real second pitch and gave up a lot of flyballs, we were skeptical. Sure enough, Charlotte beat him down, and now he's in or near the front of the line should the Sox need to clear out more roster space.

This time, the Sox chose to stick to their instincts, and history says they aren't wrong in doing so. Still, it's fascinating to see what the Arizona Fall League can do for a guy...

Star-divide

...especially when there's little else to write about.

Yes, the slowest offseason since the World Series didn't get the expected boost from the winter meetings, as Kenny Williams left Dallas with only the Sergio Santos trade to show for it.

Williams is doing his best to talk a patient game:

"You know, if we have some guys have some bounce-back years and go back to their career norms, yeah," said Williams of his team's chances to contend with Detroit in the American League Central as presently constructed. "Mostly, if a number of things happen offensively, continued growth at third base and second, [Alejandro] De Aza continues to play the way he ended the year, and along with the obvious bigger names."

"It's still a work in progress, but I wouldn't anticipate anything major unless the opportunity presents itself to add impact, young 0-3 [year]-type players. But if that doesn't manifest itself, this just isn't the time to make wholesale changes."

"Continued growth" at second. Ha.

Anyway, Williams can keep talking this game and not look ridiculous. If the Sox made no further moves, their payroll would be $110 million before the remaining six-figure salaries. That's a decent cut from last year's $127 million payroll, and Carlos Quentin is the only noticeable roster imbalance -- and if Robin Ventura had free reign to bench Alex Rios, there would be room for Quentin, too.

Throw in five credible starters and a bullpen with power arms, and if you believe Rios and Dunn aren't really two of the worst players in baseball, there's a shred of hope to cling to.

Star-divide

That's what A.J. Pierzynski is doing, anyway.

For those who Pierzynski was Joe Cowley's mystery veteran who wanted no part of a rebuilding effort, he offered some sentiment to the contrary for Mark Gonzales:

"I want to be with the White Sox," said Pierzynski, who, with Paul Konerko, are the lone members of the 2005 World Series team still on the active roster.

"I want to win with the White Sox." [...]

"Sure, it's tough when your manager (Ozzie Guillen), Burls and Sergio leave," Pierzynski said in a telephone interview. "But there will be some young guys competing for jobs, and they can get better. And we can get some guys to bounce back and get back to their normal years."

Jake Peavy was my guess for the mystery veteran, and he's still in play.

Comment 114 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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that was the shred of hope i was clinging to. no doubt it's a stretch, but that's what we've got.

and jake peavy is really turning into one of my least favorite white sox.
he’s trying to bail on a sinking ship, but he’s a big part of the reason why it’s sinking in the first place.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 9, 2011 9:42 AM CST reply actions  

They traded for a hurt pitcher.

Can’t really fault him for being hurt, and thus bad.

by thatballhitdeepwayback on Dec 9, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

I can and will fault him

he wanted to be hurt, and hurt himself. And then he cackled each payday.

screw him

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Dec 9, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

a substitute teacher? wtf.

i subbed at 22. shouldve gotten a shot in the AFL.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 9, 2011 10:11 AM CST reply actions  

There's always the LFL

Can you play football in heels?

Furious George! What happened to your beautiful face?!?

by AirTrafficAJ on Dec 9, 2011 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Doesn't surprise me at all

regarding KW thoughts.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 9, 2011 10:34 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed.

Even though he may say the word ‘rebuilding,’ he’ll never actually tear it all down. Nor was he ever really going to.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 9, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

i guess...

de aza
alexei
paulie
dunn
Q!
pimptank
AJ
beckham
morel

danks peavy gavin sale humber

could be worse

by ndsoxfan on Dec 9, 2011 11:48 AM CST reply actions  

i have a bad feeling that lineup is going to have a lot more rios in it.

but, if dunn goes back to old dunn, and rios doesn’t suck gigantic horse balls, it’s better than last year.

by obnoxious american on Dec 9, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah i expect him to be there opening day

but i hope he’s not and i dont think its possible for dunn and rios to be as bad as they were this year

by ndsoxfan on Dec 9, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions  

sure its possible.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 9, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely.

Tim Tebow doesn't fight the law, but if he did, the law would surely win. Okay, maybe not.

by winningugly on Dec 9, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Possible

Not just possible,probable.

KenWo has a Rios Jersey.Let’s give him a shot.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 9, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

why probable for dunn?

rios, i can understand, that is more than one season of suckitude.

by craigws on Dec 9, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think 25 HR with a .370(ish) OBP is unreasonable.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 9, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

fair enough, but i think it is reasonable at this point to expect rios to be bad,

i don’t think anyone can really declare probabilities on dunn being good or bad next year. last year you would have had good reason to say dunn will probably hit 40 homers. now though, who knows?

by craigws on Dec 9, 2011 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you can argue it either way depending on which criteria you like more.

Just wanted to note Rios could suck again with his bat but play great defense and partially salvage his value. Or vice versa. And if nothing else positional adjustment means he would actually have to be even worse than Dunn to be as worthless.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 9, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Why though?

If Dunn’s 2011 hitting could have been an outlier, why couldn’t Rios’ defense be the same thing? Even including last year he still grades out to average in center over the course of his career.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 9, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

good point

I don’t have a sense myself of if we would expect a slow gradual decline or a steeper one for a centerfielder over 30 – i.e. I would be curious to know if his defense would be bad enough next year to cancel out the positional adjustment and make him a better play in the corner permanently.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 9, 2011 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

it's certainly an open question.

but one that i frankly don’t want answered because de aza belongs in center and rios belongs in a corner in 2012.

by larry on Dec 9, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll agree with that

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 9, 2011 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he belongs to the bench

But I guess he deserves has1 more year or opportunity to erase his only negative fWAR season (2011) to be definitely benched or DFAed

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.

by JofpGallagher on Dec 9, 2011 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong

I still believe in Dunn! I want Dunn in the line up. I don’t believe in Rios though. I know they will play. For the money the are making only they will play. I think Dunn will keep playing thru his contract. I believe (maybe hope) Rios will be DFed at some point…..Gary Matthews Jr. v 2.0

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.

by JofpGallagher on Dec 9, 2011 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Bottom line, if he doesn't hit he sucks. Especially in a corner.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 9, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions  

When can I think it is reasonable for AD to be bad?

How far into the season will you defend the remote possibility of a turn around?

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 9, 2011 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably one of the toughest questions Ventura will have to address...

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.

by JofpGallagher on Dec 9, 2011 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

6 weeks in.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 9, 2011 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

In my mind I would like to say i would give it to the end of April but I would probably hold out hope until June 1

I think 6 weeks is good, give him time to ramp up out of the probable suck.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 9, 2011 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

one should infrequently judge players before june 1.

perhaps dunn has removed himself from that rule with last season. but i don’t think the white sox can afford, either for 2012 or 2012-2014, to not try to salvage him.

by larry on Dec 9, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Dunn

Did you not see him last year.
He was lost.Completely lost.He rarely even fouled a ball off.Three swings and goodnight Irene.If he had played as well as Rios it would not have been so horrible.
Rios at least looks like baseball player and sometimes shows signs of life.
Historically bad.Bad,badder,baddest.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 9, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

i saw him last year, but i also saw him for every season of his career beforehand. you can't say he'll do one thing or the other with any confidence.

even with one of the worst season’s in baseball history, dunn still finished with an obp nearly 30 points north of rios.
rios did not look like a baseball player this season, from his stance to his fielding. now i have to ask you if you actually saw him last year.

by craigws on Dec 9, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe I'm misreading

are you saying Rios didn’t look like a baseball player in 2010?

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 9, 2011 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Half of 2010.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 9, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Come on craig

how many times did you really see AD actually bat in his career, on TV? I’d bet maaaaybe 100.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 9, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

It should.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 9, 2011 6:17 PM CST up reply actions  

OBP 292

Fewer RBI
Fewer Runs
Fewer Home Runs
Fewer Stolen Bases
Lower Batting Average
but yes .27 higher OBS
Not just bad,historically bad
I can not believe you are making me defend Rios.
Hope I am wrong about Dunn but I have no faith in him.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 9, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Who is your mentor and where does he live?

Thx.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 9, 2011 6:00 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Mentor

His name is Mothra and he lives on the other side of the island

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 9, 2011 6:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Rios looks like he doesn't give a shit or he's taking one.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 9, 2011 6:19 PM CST up reply actions  

All of the above

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.

by JofpGallagher on Dec 9, 2011 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

id bet on rios over dunn.

at least he looked capable at times… specifically september. dunn looked lost all season long.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 9, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Rios also had that amazing July

that was remarkably worse than every month Dunn had.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Dec 9, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions  

if you look at batting average though...

even though rios was putrid at .163… that would have still been Dunn’s 2nd highest monthly total! He batted .160 or less every single month besides one- .204 in May.

I know batting average isn’t your preferred stat… but when it is that low for that long there is a huge huge problem.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 10, 2011 12:38 AM CST up reply actions  

the fact that this argument exists

makes me want to jump out of a window

NAOPOS

by blackoutsox on Dec 10, 2011 2:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Soooooo

How low does a batting average have to be to become a useful tool in the assessment of a player? Frequently people scoff at using batting average as sn argument for or against a player.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 10, 2011 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

personally i don't care what your OBP is if you can't even hit .220.

and we are talking 60 points lower than that.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 10, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Blackoutsox

That is how we will know that it is you.
Why is his shirt different Daddy?
Shut up kid and watch the game.

by Lil Jimmy on Dec 9, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

a ToeBoat runs through it

White Sox 2012: Helplessly rebuilding?

by greenlight on Dec 9, 2011 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I really doubt Q is on the team

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 9, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure they trade a starter in addition to Q...

Danks surely has to be traded, because they aren’t going to re-sign him. I think the question is just whether it’s before the season or at the trading deadline.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 9, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Do you?

Maybe if a team is willing to sell-out because they see a chance a pennant. But dealing him now, he makes more starts for the team acquiring him and you have more suitors. I don’t know.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 9, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think that's true yet.

I haven’t given up hopes of an extension for Danks. KW’s history is a phobia not enough starting pitching.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 9, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

white sox sure are on a binge of minor league lefties

re-sign leyson septimo, sign jose quintana and donnie veal. now they’ve signed eric stults. i’m surprised they let erick threets go to oakland.

by larry on Dec 9, 2011 12:43 PM CST reply actions  

so that mediocre lefty buehrle got 4/58

and Freddy… the man who won the world series clinching game… only gets 1/4? Come on. Travesty.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 9, 2011 12:47 PM CST reply actions  

freddy shoulda got 4/58.5

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 9, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

And another former....

Tigers signed Dotel….that’s a pretty good bullpen….although they have only 4 starters.

I am glad for Freddy. He was more than decent last year with a 2.2 fWAR (Peavy got 2.9)

Warning: Read my posts at your own risk!

by JofpGallagher on Dec 9, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions  

You really need to start posting at Bless You Boys

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Dec 9, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

I didn't know that website....thanks for the heads up

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.

by JofpGallagher on Dec 9, 2011 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

there is something slightly interesting about that,

dotel now has the record for clubs played for. this is his 13th team.
kinda weird that he keeps moving on even though he’s pretty good.

by craigws on Dec 9, 2011 7:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Freddy may well be a bargain and Buehrle something of an overpay at those prices

But 350 innings v. 630 innings in the past three years makes a pretty big difference in how willing teams are to sign multi-year deals.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Dec 9, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I choose to believe the 'M' is for 'Mark.'

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Dec 9, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

It looks like the logo of a cheap Space Camp knockoff

Or the logo of a company that’s headed by a James Bond villain.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 9, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

"And one time at space camp...."

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Dec 9, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Or this?*

All he had to do was flip the ‘W’ upside down.

*M’s owner, NOT BUEHRLE.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Dec 9, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

"I call the big one bitey"

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 9, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

You know, that image should be painful

But that logo….yikes.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Dec 9, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, horrible picture for multiple reasons

It’s taken years of practice to be such an asshole.
by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2010 10:35 AM PDT

by rhythm on Dec 9, 2011 1:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

sigh

I was hoping to make it 4 years without seeing that. I suppose it really wasnt possible

NAOPOS

by blackoutsox on Dec 9, 2011 3:29 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I can say it now, especially with the new uniform.

When I first saw stoner dog, Buehrle immediately came to mind.

by South Side Expat on Dec 9, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

A buddy & I were talking about this deal last night.

He said St L offered 200MIL. We know Angels gave him 254MIL. Now, I’m not exact on the facts re. St L offer, but at the surface it’s about a 20% difference. Would anyone here leave their current job for that raise? I would.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Dec 9, 2011 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

it's not a direct comparison

At least for me, if I was making $200 million already (plus what I had previously earned) an additional $50 million wouldn’t be as big of a deal when compared to if I was making 50,000 and the other option was paying 60,000.

When we’re talking those types of millions that more like the difference between a 200 foot yacht and a 150 foot yacht. Yeah the bigger one is nice, but he’ll be fine with a smaller one.

by jeeves on Dec 10, 2011 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

that picture cuts out the bottom of the ad, which reads:

CHA-CHING!!

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Dec 9, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

FKL.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Dec 9, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Carl at Smells Like Mascot

We play on the "bad" side of town, we were supposedly cursed, and we wear black. Let's play.

by ChiSoxRox on Dec 9, 2011 10:34 PM CST reply actions  

Whoops, didn't notice Doshi's fanshot

Back to finals studying I go

We play on the "bad" side of town, we were supposedly cursed, and we wear black. Let's play.

by ChiSoxRox on Dec 9, 2011 11:39 PM CST up reply actions  

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