AL Central Contender WAR: Starting Pitchers
**EDIT** Changed content relating to Bonderman and Carlos Torres. Torres is in Japan, Bonderman's thinking retirement.
Continuing from last week, it's time for further adventures with projection systems. This week: the starting pitchers. The above table is what you get if you take a straight average of the ERA projected for the top 5 starters from each team.* If I were, say, to take that average ERA and give each group 1000 innings, I could figure out how many wins per 1000 IP each staff is worth. Since the Sox are the best across the board, I made the table a little different. Think about it like games back in the standings. The Sox are at 0, with the Twins and Tigers some number of wins behind:
For the record: these have been rounded to the nearest win. Last week, it was clear that the Twins had more talent in their lineup than the Sox or Tigers by a couple wins. Unlike the Tigers, the White Sox make up the deficit with strength in the rotation. There are caveats however. Like last week, this method ignores health. Normally adding that back in would put the Sox further ahead. But in this case, there's Jake Peavy. If he were to split the season with some other starter with a 5.00 ERA, the Sox would fall right back to the starting pitcher pack. Given the uncertainty involved in each injury, it makes a lot of sense to say Justin Morneau:Twins::Jake Peavy:White Sox.
My method also neglects depth beyond the top 5. That's partly because I don't see it being an issue. The leftovers include guys like Brian Duensing and Jeremy Bonderman, not to mention Chris Sale. Nobody's going to replace an ace with those guys, but they are still pretty solid guys who can slot in comfortably for a mid-to-back of the rotation injury. Observe:
Duensing may actually make the Twins rotation if someone comes out looking flat, since there are a few outstanding questions that may require Spring Training to resolve. Scott Baker and Nick Blackburn both had minor offseason surgeries, and while Liriano seems to be more than all the way back from Tommy John, he's definitely established himself as flimsy. Kevin Slowey had surgery in 2009 and also came up limp in 2010. And of course, Carl Pavano and his stache time-traveled to the present from 1880. That's bound to have adverse effects.
Baker, the presumptive number 2, has already had a setback and his career numbers are beginning to suggest that he's worse than his peripherals. The same may be said of Slowey in a year or two. Even with all those questions, the Twins will still probably be good as long as Liriano's healthy. Staff dominance is probably out of the question, as they've got as much risk 1-5 as the Sox have including Peavy, but they'll be in the top half of the league.
Like Duensing, I said Bonderman qualifies as "solid" which doesn't mean he's as good as Sale or Duensing. Just that if he's got to replace anyone past Verlander or Scherzer for a half-season, no one will really notice. On the other hand, it's looking like he might not even play baseball this year, so maybe the Tigers will have depth issues. Brad Penny is most likely to prove me wrong on that count. He only made 9 starts last year, but he's been good when he's been healthy and he's still hitting 94 mph with his heater. Porcello gives them some upside I guess (which both Marcel and the fans pick up on), but he'd really have to add some velocity to impress me. Phil Coke is going to lose a few ticks, so he's likely just to be some guy out there. So I'm with ZiPS: Verlander and Scherzer and pray for Sain.**
Compared to their fellow contenders, the Sox actually have the most to lose in case of injury to one of the top five. This is in part because Chris Sale will be stashed in the pen, but also because Peavy is the most likely to go down. Don Cooper has said he doesn't want to be moving Sale back and forth between roles and it seems that upper management agrees with him. At least for now. If that's the case, the options are slim. Tony Pena has enough pitches to make it work okay and he's not terribly vital in the pen. I'd peg him for around a 5.25 ERA if he had to start. Carlos Torres is probably worse than Pena, but not worse than replacement level the next Tom Selleck. Nobody outside of John Danks can really replace a fully functional Peavy, but neither Pena or Torres is really fit to fill in for the top 5.
Given the set up, you might think it obvious that they'll run with Sale if they have to. Hopefully your history of guessing Kenny Williams' intentions are better than mine. I was positive Ken Griffey Jr. would never play center field. That aside, it's worth mentioning that the timing of a hypothetical Peavy injury makes a lot of difference. If he makes it to August, a four man rotation starts looking pretty good. In which case, you're only losing the difference between Peavy and the other four starters. That ain't much and it sets a nice bar for Peavy to (hopefully) clear. If Peavy can be the Real Jake Peavy from opening day until August, the Sox will be in good shape. If they've got Real Peavy while Morneau struggles with his comeback, they'll be the division front-runner.
*I filled in Brad Penny and Phil Coke's fan projection myself, which is cheating but I don't think it really makes a huge difference. I also didn't use Brian Duensing b/c Marcel and the Fans think he's going to relieve part time and that screws with the projection. Plus, I'm guessing the Twins see Duensing and Blackburn as about the same, but they're paying the latter $3M this season. Not true for Duensing.
**Zombies are hip.
52 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Nice work, colin.
But as Tdogg will tell you….I’ll take Scherzer over Danks. ;-)
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Mar 1, 2011 11:24 AM CST reply actions
Semi-relevant twattles:
Bob Nightengale of USA Today just told us that he thinks its possible that Liriano is traded to the Yanks in nxt 2 weeks for Nova or Joba +
http://twitter.com/JimBowdenXMFOX/status/42324511504334848
heard ex-No. 1 pick phil humber has caught #chisox p. coach don coopers eye. no. 5 starter if peavy can’t start year?http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/42606316019138560
I think trading Liriano would definitely hurt the Twins, but if they are betting on him going down with another injury then a healthy Joba or Nova would probably provide some small improvement over other Liriano replacement options.
Not really sure what to think about Humber, seems mostly like complete speculation, but I am a fan of Coop’s work.
"I'm the Chicago man. I'm vital in Chicago." -Willy Ohman, Act 1
by mechanical turk on Mar 1, 2011 11:29 AM CST reply actions
That would have to be one hell of a + to make it a good deal
Mauer and Morneau aren’t going to be in their primes for ever.
If it’s me running the Twins, I’m rolling the dice on winning in these next couple years while Mauer can still catch most games.
Seems that way.
I talked to a player who knows Jeremy Bonderman, who said, “More than likely he’s going to sit this year out.”
http://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/42615136191647745
"I'm the Chicago man. I'm vital in Chicago." -Willy Ohman, Act 1
by mechanical turk on Mar 1, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
and that's why colin needs to learn to respond to texts
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Seems so, although wish I hadn't looked for information on it..
Strewn about were four good looking starts, but three of them were against the same team, the White Sox, and the other was against the Royals. In other words, if you’re looking for some optimism in his second half numbers, it’s that he managed to match up well against one team.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 1, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Torres
isn’t he pitching overseas this year?
yes
I hope Kotsay gets hit by a dump truck and slips into a coma where he is stuck forever in Baseball purgatory having to bat against a three-headed, six-armed Lefty Hydra consisting of Billy Wagner, Damaso Marte, and Randy Johnson. - Shoeless In SC
I was about to say "Great job, colin."
Bonderman/Torres. Fer Chrissakes. ;)
The rest is sterling.
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."
you can imagine how we feel.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
by mick10 on Mar 1, 2011 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Porcello's splits are an nteresting case. At first I thought his projections were optimistic, but...
Season Split K/9 BB/9 K/BB HR/9 AVG WHIP BABIP LOB% FIP xFIP 2010 vs L 4.03 2.40 1.68 0.87 .302 1.51 .321 - - - 4.39 4.76 2010 vs R 5.29 1.80 2.94 1.13 .271 1.26 .292 - - - 4.24 4.03 2010 Home 3.72 1.96 1.90 0.98 .272 1.30 .281 67.6 % 4.38 4.69 2010 Away 5.86 2.29 2.56 1.02 .307 1.50 .343 64.1 % 4.22 4.03 2010 Mar/Apr 5.84 2.19 2.67 1.09 .380 1.91 .427 60.3 % 4.34 4.25 2010 May 2.84 3.98 0.71 0.28 .266 1.48 .283 75.1 % 4.28 5.59 2010 Jun 4.50 1.29 3.50 2.57 .338 1.79 .333 34.3 % 6.44 4.96 2010 Jul 5.91 2.53 2.33 0.84 .203 1.03 .222 74.3 % 3.97 4.22 2010 Aug 4.46 1.98 2.25 0.74 .259 1.21 .280 63.7 % 3.90 4.26 2010 Sep/Oct 4.93 0.52 9.50 1.30 .285 1.18 .301 77.1 % 4.12 3.46
A few things jumped out at me. His K and BB rate splits at home/away, and his significant improvement in his FIP in the second half. I can see why he’d be projected for a low 4.00 ERA now.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow
White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox
Its optimistic
Perhaps I should take 3 months of Floyd and project him to win the Cy Young this year. I think I need to see a bit more before a projection under 4 happens.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
I don't think anyone is projecting him under 4.00.
I think the low 4.16 and 4.18 from Marcel and the Fans, respectively, isn’t as optimistic as it first appears.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow
White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox
by Shoeless In SC on Mar 1, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
My bad
meant to say low 4’s. Color me very skeptical and I fall more in line with Zips on this one. He still doesn’t strike out many, his control is hardly impeccable and he has a worse defense this year. Maybe I’m just projecting.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
I'm skeptical too, but there's reason to be optimistic and for Tigers fans to hold the faith.
I really wish the Sox had forked out the money and taken him over Poreda. During the draft I was disappointed they let him fall. With Coop’s help Porcello could’ve bene a solid, cheap, addition to this rotation. Plus, the kid knows how to fight :)
Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow
White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox
by Shoeless In SC on Mar 1, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
he could add some velo
since he’s still pretty young. but yeah. pretty much.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
Im not opposed to going over slot
but Boras had some crazy conditions on him signing. And yes he is Garland right now so I’m losing sleep just yet over him.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Is there any reason his K and BB rates should improve on the road?
Or is it likely that he happened to pitch more on the road in the second half when he heated up?
His HR/9 isn't significantly different, and that's one thing that can change from one park to the next
however his BABIP is much higher on the road, 21% higher, actually, a whole .060 difference in average.
I don’t know what could account for such differences. That chart shows home/away splits for the entire season. I would say it’s purely chance. Maybe someone else can point out why K/9, BB/9, and BABIP would be so different in home/away splits when HR/9 is steady.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow
White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox
by Shoeless In SC on Mar 1, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
the improvement is all in his walk rate
in which case, sss. if Tiger fans want to object having seen what they think are legit changes, fine by me. i’ve seen a couple of his starts and his numbers.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
I'm no expert on Rick Porcello... but he was sent down to the minors in mid June and came back up in mid July
I remember reading something about him working on some things. Whatever it was, he came back and pitched much better afterwards.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow
White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox
by Shoeless In SC on Mar 1, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
i'm just telling you
that reading the numbers isn’t going to help all that much. gotta scout that one.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
apologies for the crap formatting
the preview function wasn’t working. should look fine now.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
yeah. good quality as usual.
Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow
White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox
by Shoeless In SC on Mar 1, 2011 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
also, the woman that sang the national anthem should be put in prison.
brutal.
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
too many gesticulations.
and it’s one thing if you’re not a good singer or if you forget the words. i can deal with that, but i draw the line at making up a new melody.
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
Are you saying we have no GT?
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."
what?
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
No gamethread.
Never mind – I see it on the RR. New management forgets we like our baseball LIVE and interactive, no matter how little it counts in the standings.
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."
Looks like we've got our 5th starter

"I'm the Chicago man. I'm vital in Chicago." -Willy Ohman, Act 1
by mechanical turk on Mar 1, 2011 2:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I am counting 6 seconds between pitches for Buehrle when the batter stays in the box. Rapid.
He looks good. Had Kotsay struck out with a pitch on the outside corner but the ump didn’t ring him up.
i would have drilled him
I hope Kotsay gets hit by a dump truck and slips into a coma where he is stuck forever in Baseball purgatory having to bat against a three-headed, six-armed Lefty Hydra consisting of Billy Wagner, Damaso Marte, and Randy Johnson. - Shoeless In SC
Wife, etc.
"I'm the Chicago man. I'm vital in Chicago." -Willy Ohman, Act 1
by mechanical turk on Mar 1, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Where's our game thread?
Jesus, one of the few times I’ll make game threads for spring training and there’s not one! I am disappoint in this new regime.
South Side Sox Online Baseball Manager team: Colorado Pikes Peaks
make a fanshot yourself and we'll join you over there.
i’m too busy watching chelsea-manU.
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
which means Im automatically chearing for manU
I hope Kotsay gets hit by a dump truck and slips into a coma where he is stuck forever in Baseball purgatory having to bat against a three-headed, six-armed Lefty Hydra consisting of Billy Wagner, Damaso Marte, and Randy Johnson. - Shoeless In SC
i'm rooting against both teams.
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
Carlos Quentin: Interface Version 4.0
Now, with smiling!
by 3E8 on Mar 1, 2011 8:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

by 
























