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Ramifications of an 11-man pitching staff

It's a shame that MLB Network cameras aren't filming The Club for this season, because the roster decison scenes in the spring last year were all pretty obvious. Sergio Santos and Randy Williams earned spots on the club, and Daniel Hudson had obviously lost a numbers game.

Nobody was taken by surprise, whereas Jeff Marquez had expressed some confidence that he did enough to make the team. He was told differently on Saturday, and now he has to prepare for a move in the event that he's claimed on waivers.

Jake Peavy's injury and the previous cuts left Marquez running unopposed for the 12th pitcher spot. The Sox would have to choose a six-man bullpen in order for Marquez to miss making the team, and the Sox last carried 11 pitchers in 2005.

But Kenny Williams couldn't bear to decide between Brent Lillibridge and Lastings Milledge for the final position player spot, so now the Sox have six outfielders and Marquez has an empty locker.

Normally, I like the idea of an 11-man pitching staff, especially when there isn't a 12th man who isn't worth it. That opens up the position-player side of the roster for specialization and platoons (for instance, an 11-man pitching staff would have made it zero problem to retain Jim Thome last season).

The ramifications aren't so obvious this time around.

Star-divide

Looking at the pitchers, Tony Pena could be a very busy man. Out of the six relievers the Sox will carry, he's the only one with experience working two innings and beyond on a routine basis. The Sox do have an opportunity to skip the fifth starter in two of the first three turns through the rotation, so Phil Humber could join him for swingman work.

That would be a highly efficient way to deploy 11 pitchers. If Humber's a full-time starter, though, the Sox would have to hope that White Sox rotation spaces out its duds appropriately. Either that, or we'll be seeing two-inning Will Ohman appearances, and those won't end well.

Likewise, when trying to imagine how Lillibridge and Milledge will be utilized, my thoughts turned to Jayson Nix. As last year's last man on the bench, Nix only received 23 plate appearances over the first month and a half. Now, imagine if there were a player behind Nix on the depth chart. Where would he play?

That's a question with no easy answers, because the Sox don't have any obvious platoon situations. On paper, Juan Pierre should get right-handed help, but we know he's playing in 158 games unless his body betrays him. Milledge could spell Carlos Quentin against lefties -- Quentin has always had reverse splits -- but that also seems unlikely to happen on anything resembling a routine basis.

Right now, I envision Milledge serving as adequate insurance when Quentin has to miss three or four games for some kind of soreness. but you can't get reliable at-bats that way. Otherwise, his primary use will be as a right-handed pinch hitter. But unless Mark Teahen is starting in right field or maybe Brent Morel is a slow starter, it's hard to see who else Guillen would lift in favor of Milledge against a left-handed pitcher.

Lillibridge has clearly defined uses - he's the primary backup to Alex Rios in center, and the late-inning pinch-running option. But he's not a guy who you can roll out in center field for two straight weeks, because he simply can't hit well enough to make multiple starts in a row.

And then there's Teahen, who is further marginalized by the presence of a real corner outfielder. He's now the third choice at three positions, which would indicate he's not long for the team if anybody would take him.

Rolling around the scenarios in my head, there's one case where having Milledge, Lillibridge and Teahen would truly pay off: a Quentin DL stint. A Milledge-Teahen platoon would be worth a shot for two weeks. The Sox have certainly tried worse options.

Knowing the Sox, though, they'd probably replace Quentin with a 12th pitcher. I don't see this experiment lasting very long.

Comment 78 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Good piece, Jim.

Jared Mitchell: GAMBARIMASU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by winningugly on Mar 28, 2011 6:24 AM CDT reply actions  

points for cleverness

2011 WhiteSox Baseball: we're all in

by OznCoop on Mar 28, 2011 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not a fan of this move

I’d rather have a 12th pitcher not playing enough than a 14th fielder. Plus you know Guillen will be concerned about getting Lillibridge AND Milledge AND Teahen playing time. And none of them deserve it.

by striker on Mar 28, 2011 7:24 AM CDT reply actions  

11 Pitchers

I love it, man up bullpen 5 starters 6 releivers is more then enough for the start of the season, I would much rather have multiple base running, pinch hitting, and defensive replacement guys on my bench then some loogey or long man to start the year off.

by Knoxfire30 on Mar 28, 2011 8:33 AM CDT reply actions  

i almost always agree with this strategy.

but its brett lillibridge/mark teahen. they aren’t going to pinch hit for us (maybe teahen for morel). They aren’t better fielders than anyone they will be replacing. I guess lillibridge can pinch run for konerko or dunn.

the fact that we have humber in the rotation is more reason to carry another pitcher.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Mar 28, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

early season

i think two guys need to be pinch hit for late in games, a tough righty on morel should bring teahen off the bench and you can still put in lillbridge or vizquel for defense, a tough lefty vs aj should get him pulled for milledge, and then castro obviously comes in on defense, plus both milledge and lillbridge should run for dunn or konerko anytime late in a 1 run or tied game, and quentin should be pulled defensively late in every game where we are ahead, i think their are lots of opportunities to utilize this bench that will have more value then a mop up guy like marquez

by Knoxfire30 on Mar 28, 2011 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

if they pinch hit for AJ against a tough lefty

I’d be awfully surprised. they have never done that before- they won’t start now. Unless they were to carry 3 catchers.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Mar 28, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

i agree they havent done it before

but its hard to agree thats a wise strategy, i think aj is going to have an awful year…. hope im wrong

by Knoxfire30 on Mar 28, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

same.

im pretty concerned about AJ this year.

Or maybe he was more like a 25 cent gumball after a big dinner out: screw it, why not? -colintj

by e-gus on Mar 28, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

pr cares, larry

pr cares.

Or maybe he was more like a 25 cent gumball after a big dinner out: screw it, why not? -colintj

by e-gus on Mar 28, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

aww sometimes you care too

about my feelings

FOLLOW ME TO: Second City Hockey and South Side Sox, A CHICAGO WOMAN FOREVER.....
I'm married to The Chicago White Sox, Loving The Chicago Blackhawks!

by pierzynskirules on Mar 28, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zzzzz.

You are concerned about AJ every year.

Jared Mitchell: GAMBARIMASU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by winningugly on Mar 28, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

not really.

I’ve been ok with the expected average returns.
this year I’m concerned the bottom falls out.

Or maybe he was more like a 25 cent gumball after a big dinner out: screw it, why not? -colintj

by e-gus on Mar 28, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

Don’t the Sox need to upgrade at Lillibridge? Can’t they do better than him?

by Otter7 on Mar 28, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

(smiles)

Is it crazy to say that I like Nix more than Lil’ Brent?

I understand that Brent has better value as a Pinch Runner and that he can “play” Center Field.

But Brent is terrible at hitting.

At least Jayson is mediocre at hitting, has pop, and can walk.

by PeejSox on Mar 28, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why?

He’s only the 5th OF, 3rd in line for most IF positions, and can cover CF. And he’s a very good PR option. And while he’s not good with the bat, he has shown that he’s a streak hitter who can be decent for short periods of time while he’s hot. He’s not good but for his role he’s decent.

by Navid on Mar 28, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

He got lucky for one 22 ab stretch.

His entire batting career, including last year is a complete fail. He OPSed .416 in the 2nd half last year. I guarantee right now Kenwo can do better than that.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Mar 28, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't mind this at all.

Who was our long reliever when we broke camp last year? I don’t remember having one. And I can’t imagine Humber doing much worse than what Peavy did for the first month last year. The rest of the pitching staff dealt with it last year. They’ll be fine this year, even if Humber sucks for his 2 or 3 starts in April.

We signed Milledge and I’m glad we did. Milledge outperformed Lillibridge in ST. So the choice was lose Lillibridge and keep Marquez, or lose Marquez and keep Lillibridge. I think they got this one right. The organization didn’t want to lose Brent, and quite frankly neither did I. They weren’t going to get rid of Milledge after the way he played in ST, so that option was nonexistent. Marquez is gone. Humber takes his spot in the organization. That’s fine with me.

"There he was!!! Dirtying his shiny Sox helmet!!!" - homesickalien at the brief glimpse of Manny Ramirez

by Servant2LordBeckham on Mar 28, 2011 8:50 AM CDT reply actions  

Pena was our long reliever last year, right?

Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow

White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 28, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

In a way, yes. But I don't think that was the original plan for him.

I usually think of a long reliever as a guy who is saved for blowouts and spot starts. Pena gets a decent amount of middle relief time. They like him because he can work 2, 3, or 4 innings. That’s why we got some starting time this spring.

And if you consider him to be a long reliever last year, then we have him as a long reliever this year. And that’s fine. I think the team will do just fine with a bullpen of Pena, Ohman, Santos, Sale, Crain, and Thornton.

I think this move indicates that KW and front office have faith in how Ozzie will manage the back end of the bullpen. Thornton is the closer, but I don’t see Ozzie hesitating to bring him in for the 7th or 8th.

"There he was!!! Dirtying his shiny Sox helmet!!!" - homesickalien at the brief glimpse of Manny Ramirez

by Servant2LordBeckham on Mar 28, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Huh. Unlike you, Pena getting starts does worry me.

I have more faith in Humber than Pena in going 5 or 6 innings.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow

White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 28, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's not that I have tons of confidence in Pena's ability to spot start and cover long relief...

It’s that I think this will only have the possibility of being an issue for the first month. IF we have a blowout then Pena is going to have to cover 4 or 5 innings out of the bullpen. So if Peavy comes back in early or mid-May, then who cares about one day where Pena has to cover more than 2 innings?

The Sox front office is saying “we trust our bullpen to do their job”. Shame on them?

We’re all in, bitches.

"There he was!!! Dirtying his shiny Sox helmet!!!" - homesickalien at the brief glimpse of Manny Ramirez

by Servant2LordBeckham on Mar 28, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I approve.

I generally hate 12 pitchers. I just wish the other position went to De Aza and that the team would have launched killibridge at the same time. I expect Teabag to get traded.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Mar 28, 2011 9:11 AM CDT reply actions  

De Aza has options, and he's kind of redundant with Milledge, no?

Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow

White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 28, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only thing killibridge does better is he can play the infield.

whatever. He hits for shit. Real shit. Send his ass packing.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Mar 28, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I rooted for this kid. I wanted him to get CF abs before it was fashionable.

I’m tired of his swings for the fences like he’s a damn power hitter.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Mar 28, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

well, perhaps he tried hitting for contact and that didn't work out.

I don’t like him either, but having Milledge and De Aza seems redundant. It’s like having two Ozunas, two Timos, or two Harris’. Bridge is able to not embarrass himself too badly in the IF.

Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow

White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 28, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree that having Milledge and De Aza on the same bench is redundant.

Lillibridge isn’t great with a bat, but his versatility is what saved his ass. That and the fact that he’s out of options.

"There he was!!! Dirtying his shiny Sox helmet!!!" - homesickalien at the brief glimpse of Manny Ramirez

by Servant2LordBeckham on Mar 28, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

But a team

with two Ozunas, two Timos and two Harris’ would go like 145-17 and win the World Series to start a dynasty that the Yankees would be jealous of…

by Otter7 on Mar 28, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

You misspelled Lillibridge not once but twice.

It’s almost as if it was intentional.

This space is available.

by MrBungle on Mar 28, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tdogg rebels by using the letter "K" as often as possible.

Plus, he’s militant. “Kill” is in his Serenity Prayer.

Jared Mitchell: GAMBARIMASU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by winningugly on Mar 28, 2011 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

another possible reason...

There is another scenario beside a Quentin DL stint wherein the retention of the Bridge and the Ledge makes sense: in the event that either Quentin or Teahen get moved early in the season. I certainly believe that’s what the Sox’d like to do with Teahen and I suspect that Quentin’s value might be high enough to make that move (and cut a little payroll). That would enable Viciedo (once healthy) to get the bulk of the time in RF (which I think O and K are convinced is possible and possibly even an upgrade!) and the dges to get more ABs.
maybe just wishful thinking.

by ERM on Mar 28, 2011 9:23 AM CDT reply actions  

so many people out to troll you tdogg.

as if you haven’t been persecuted enough.

by craigws on Mar 28, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

:-)

I started to reply and then erased. I promised to let it go and revisit in during the season when Q unleashes his fury. I’ll do likewise here.

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Mar 28, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know, most Q detractors do.

Well except maybe Kenwo!

Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?

by Tdogg on Mar 28, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I actually agree with your faith in Q.

It would have to be a really solid piece to contribute to the present team to pry Quentin away, and I don’t see any teams offering that. I like having Milledge on the team as some form of major league ready insurance in the event Q gets hurt, but I’m not going to assume injury and put a lesser player out there in fear.

"There he was!!! Dirtying his shiny Sox helmet!!!" - homesickalien at the brief glimpse of Manny Ramirez

by Servant2LordBeckham on Mar 28, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

"solid piece"

I should have articulated that the reason for a potential good trade market for Q (and even possibly the Hen) would be because of the current demand for a corner outfield across MLB. That’s my perception: that it might be a little hotter than usual for this time of year with the glut of injury and other question marks.
That is, aside from Q’s exceptional pop, statistical achievements and potential – coming off a pretty hot Spring, that would be my reasoning for his potential high trade value right now.

by ERM on Mar 28, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

i don't think spring training is going to

effect his value much compared to four months ago when they weren’t being offered anything good in return.
the market might, but he’d need an excellent first half before he’d really be worth trading again.

by craigws on Mar 28, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

i drafted quentin in my main fantasy league yesterday.

right now he’s a reserve. if he starts hitting i’ll be more than happy to get him in the lineup.

I wouldn’t cry though if he got traded today. As you all know I think Viciedo can do a better job right now than Quentin can in right.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Mar 28, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I Like IT!!

Keeping Millidge is great insurance for an outfield injury. Also credit to Kenny for giving up on Marquez. He has no real future in Mlb. I see Milledge getting some big hits for us off the bench. Also Lilly’s mom called to say thanks!!

by soxfan50 on Mar 28, 2011 10:01 AM CDT reply actions  

we're number 14 we're number 14

a summary of the white sox organizational ranking in fangraphs

Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Mar 28, 2011 10:19 AM CDT reply actions  

questions

Is there something more to “especially in the way Jeff Marquez received his bad news on Sunday.”? What was the player supposed to do, not clear his locker? Did he do it in some violent manner or something?

Any of you doing this: http://www.hometeamcharityrun.org/index_2.html ?

Taking a walk in a donkey park listening to the wind of change

by LT_sox_fan on Mar 28, 2011 11:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Nah. Just poor wording.

All his quotes leading up to it had expressed a degree of confidence. With The Club, the only one who was shown being told he wouldn’t make the team is Hudson, and the writing was on the wall.

It would’ve been interesting to see what it looks like when a guy might think he has a roster spot taken away from him, and might have to join a different organization as well.

THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO

by Jim Margalus on Mar 28, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Has all of this been said, and I'm "da man" again?

The first opportunity for a 5th starter is April 10th against the Rays. Peavy comes back on the 7th. The 2nd opportunity for a 5th, that is, if they’re skipping him due to the 2 off days in the first couple of weeks, April 20th.

Teahen gets traded by end of April, Humber moves to the bullpen, Peavy spot starts in RF?

by TasteeFreeze on Mar 28, 2011 2:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes, somebody else also screwed up the math.

The 5th starter is needed on April 9th.

"We know where your thumb is." - winningugly

by RWShow on Mar 28, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now I'm throwing down

Apr 1 – @ Cle (starter 1)
Apr 2 – @ Cle (starter 2)
Apr 3 – @ Cle (starter 3)
Apr 4 – off (4th starter would pitch here, but it’s an off day, so they move him to the 5th, and skip a place)
Apr 5 – @ KC (starter 4)
Apr 6 – @ KC (starter 1)
Apr 7 – vs. TB (starter 2)
Apr 8 – vs. TB (starter 3)
Apr 9 – vs. TB (starter 4)
Apr 10 – vs. TB (starter 5)

Am I missing something?

by TasteeFreeze on Mar 28, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

how did this get no love?

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Mar 29, 2011 2:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing Peavy will only miss a start

That’s not to say he won’t get injured again this season and miss some time.

by shaftr on Mar 28, 2011 3:01 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe Ozzie wants to do a lot of running in the late innings

Keeping the Millibridge twins gives him a couple of pinch runners for some of the less fleet of foot hitters in the lineup.

by asinwreck on Mar 28, 2011 3:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Lillibridge as Herb Washington

Or maybe he was more like a 25 cent gumball after a big dinner out: screw it, why not? -colintj

by e-gus on Mar 28, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Throw in a rain or snow out

and they may not need a 5th starter at all. Assuming there are no quick make up dates

by parkernutws05 on Mar 28, 2011 4:22 PM CDT reply actions  

FC

"We know where your thumb is." - winningugly

by RWShow on Mar 28, 2011 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

FCITA...ITMTTSB

Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow

White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 29, 2011 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

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