Is $5.5 million per year closer money?
Teams often go through the motions of pretending competition exists. This spring, the White Sox have two such charades: a competition between Brent Morel and Mark Teahen for starting third baseman and a competition between four relievers for who will be the closer.
The White Sox have all but stopped pretending the former exists, after Teahen confirmed yet again his total incapability of playing defense. Many will take this contract extension as the signal that the latter doesn't exist, either. After all, the thinking is that one wouldn't commit that annual salary to a reliever unless the intent is that he fulfill the figurehead position in the bullpen and accumulate the saves. Nevermind that Scott Linebrink will be taking the same annual fee to not close for not the White Sox.
The truth, of course, is that Thornton always was going to be the closer. But, whether he would be closing or not, the White Sox probably felt a deal needed to be made. Perhaps racking up 40 saves for a contending team would have driven his price up on the 2012 free agent market. But while the save continues to be a key driver in arbitration salaries, its role in free agency appears to be on the decline. And, in any event, set up men have cashed in at rates similar to or in excess of $5.5 million.
Obviously, the key question is whether Thornton will be worth the salary going forward, whatever role he happens to fill. Thornton has been the best non-Mariano Rivera reliever in baseball for the last three years. Pick any measure you like - FIP, ERA, K/BB, WHIP, holds - and it's just about impossible to argue that Thornton wouldn't have been worth this salary in past seasons.
In 2011, Thornton will be finishing out what turned out to be one of the team friendliest contracts in recent memory. The day prior to the start of the 2007 season, the White Sox signed Thornton to a 3 year, $3.25 million contract with team options for 2010 and 2011. His annual salaries have been: 07:$0.55M, 08:$0.875M, 09:$1.325M, 10:$2.25M, 11:$3M. So he's been paid $5 million so far and, according to fWAR, been worth $33M. As the kids on Wall Street say, that's a sexy ROI.
As is usual with any contract - let alone one for a pitcher who will be 35 when it begins - the key is health. And there have been some troubling indicators there, with elbow/forearm problems bothering him at a few points during this past season and eventually resulting in a DL trip in August.
Since Thornton throws his fastball about 90% of the time, all of his value is tied to that pitch. And there has been no visible decline there. If anything, the pitch has gotten better. His velocity has consistently sat in the 95-96 MPH range the past three seasons. And, when he returned from injury in September, his stuff was not diminished.
Comparable pitchers are hard to find because there aren't many left-handers who throw as hard as Thornton does. Of contemporaries, the White Sox probably would like a career arc like that of the recently retired Billy Wagner. Wagner maintained his mid-90s fastball, and his effectiveness, all the way through his final season at age 40.
Whether or not Thornton ends up serving as the closer for this contract is pretty much irrelevant to whether he's worth the contract (though some will argue that his value will actually decline because he'll see less important game situations as a strict 9th inning man). He's already shown that a reliever's value is in getting hitters out in high leverage situations, whenever they happen to occur. And his ability to do that is unquestioned. We can discuss the usual caveats to any long-term commitment to a player but there isn't much to quibble with here from the outsider's perspective. Depending upon salary inflation, he'll be paid to produce about 1-1.5 WAR. He's been consistently and comfortably above that range in the past three seasons so he's got room to decline and still be worth the money, whether it's closer money or set-up man money.
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Dressed like a tourist in shorts, t-shirt, sun glasses and baseball cap, former White Sox shortstop and World Series star Juan Uribe stopped by today’s game to visit with Ozzie Guillen and his friends in the Sox dugout.
Uribe walked down the aisle to the dugout and we greeted warmly.
White Sox general manager Ken Williams saw Uribe and offered a shout of “Uhh-reee-bay” in welcome.
Pitcher Mark Buehrle spotted Uribe from the mound. He asked the umpire for a change of baseballs and threw a ball to Uribe in the stands. He handled the chance flawlessly.
Brings to mind another classic Uribe story.
When the Sox celebrated a game in 2009 with a Nick Swisher bobblehead, the outfielder showed it off in the clubhouse to his teammates.
Uribe, you ever have a bobblehead? Swisher supposedly asked.
Without missing a beat, Uribe is said to have responded … Did you see that monument out front? I don’t need a bobblehead.
http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/archives/2011/03/uhhh-reee-baay_1.html
by larry on Mar 6, 2011 4:01 PM CST reply actions 14 recs
fuck nick swisher.
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
by BuehrleMan on Mar 6, 2011 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hell, yeah.
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."
by winningugly on Mar 6, 2011 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That last line is genius.
FNS!
Our manager wears 13, we were supposedly cursed, and we wear black. Let's play.
i love uribe.
and depending on wether or not morel does anything… we still could use him.
Kenwo4life=ratings
he got paid.
I’ll take Morel on the cheap.
this game is crack cocaine soaked in heroin, rolled in meth-amphetamine, then baked into a double dutch chocolate fudge brownie.- Shoeless In SC on BMO
this year.
he coulda played 3rd last year and 2nd the year before though.
plus if morel is hitting 170 by the time the methup comes along.. id still take uribe
Kenwo4life=ratings
i thought the story was that uribe took the bobblehead doll and defecated on it
Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Mar 7, 2011 4:01 AM CST up reply actions
I didn't realize he was that old.
I looked at his stats in Seattle. Cooper really did a nice job with him. He should give Cooper a cut. Oh wait, we don’t want to start that again.
He was a washed-up 1st round pick for a long time.
Back in 2006, the Baseball Prospectus entry on Thornton read:
Live fastball, nasty slider, a strikeout an inning in his first full year in the bigs—but yikes, check out the walks and homers! He`s another Mariners` 1st-round pick from a zillion years ago (1998) who looked like a prospect but never panned out. Lousy control was the main culprit, but he added 2002 Tommy John surgery and 2004 shoulder pain to gain his membership badge in the Mariners` scarred-up slingers` club. It`s hard to see Thornton suddenly finding the plate as he prepares to enter his 30s.
What a difference a ten-minute Don Cooper fix can make.
Nice writeup. Perfectly sane and reasonable extension.
Thx.
Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease
by Chiburb on Mar 6, 2011 4:19 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Sox Hitting
What angers me so far about this spring is that the sox continue to have trouble with hitting. This has carried over into the first month and a half of the last few seasons.
Therefore, the coaching staff is not adequately preparing the hitters to be ready when the season starts. I’m not that worried about pitchhing at this point.
Are you serious? Hard to tell snark from Snipe.
Sheehan says:
Davis is crushing the ball so far, which gives me the opening to make this point: spring-training stats don’t matter. Individual statistics have meaning when they’re accumulated as part of a push to win baseball games. In March, winning baseball games is a side effect of getting into shape, trying a new swing, rehabbing injuries, learning a change-up, implementing a timing mechanism, taking a look at that kid your brother-in-law, the scout in Tucson, never shuts up about. The wins and losses don’t matter, and therefore, the numbers do not, either. Any time you read or hear someone cite spring training statistics, hear them in the same manner you hear Charlie Brown’s teacher. I beg you. If you ever see me slip and cite spring-training stats, you have the right to send me e-mails dripping with profanity-laden snark. Well, more of them.
Learn something here:
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Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease
by Chiburb on Mar 6, 2011 5:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Where'd I put that confounded ledge.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
by homesickalien on Mar 6, 2011 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
by my calculations
the White Sox are going to go 27-135.
this game is crack cocaine soaked in heroin, rolled in meth-amphetamine, then baked into a double dutch chocolate fudge brownie.- Shoeless In SC on BMO
Hire Greg Walker.
I hope Kotsay gets hit by a dump truck and slips into a coma where he is stuck forever in Baseball purgatory having to bat against a three-headed, six-armed Lefty Hydra consisting of Billy Wagner, Damaso Marte, and Randy Johnson. - Shoeless In SC
This also signals the club's plan to start Sale next year.
If is is one handed shitting. by winningugly
Excellent. I wonder what ran through Thornton's head while sitting next to Linebrink the past few seasons, acknowledging the inequality of their contracts related to the polarity of their performances.
We sort of owe him a couple bucks at this point.
I love the Thorny long time.
biceps-deep in fungible pumpkins.
"By Pluto's Thorny Cock!"
Best Line from a great HBO series- Rome.
"juicy delicious meats in my mouth-hole"- HSA
by DrEmilioLizardo on Mar 6, 2011 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Love it...
Matt Thornton is one the best LH relievers in the game and would get more than that amount if he hit free agency.
Billy Wagner is one of my favorite pitchers of all time
I love seeing Matt Thornton being comparable to him.
I hope Kotsay gets hit by a dump truck and slips into a coma where he is stuck forever in Baseball purgatory having to bat against a three-headed, six-armed Lefty Hydra consisting of Billy Wagner, Damaso Marte, and Randy Johnson. - Shoeless In SC
is the 5.5 definite?
isn’t that still crazy cheap for an elite reliever who could have been a FA at the end of the year?
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
cheap? of course he's elite. KW doesn't throw octavio dotel money at just anyone.
by larry on Mar 6, 2011 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so you see what i'm saying then?
isn’t 5.5 less than he could have had on the open market at the end of the year?
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
i said he was being paid to produce 1-1.5 WAR. if the implication wasn't clear, obviously that isn't much.
yeah i got that. i'm just trying to figure out why he didn't feel like holding out
for Juoaquin Benoit money. to each their own of course, but i’m wondering if it doesn’t presage something else.
Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!
he suggests he is happy where he is:
"It was an easy choice with an organization like this, with what they’ve done the last five months or so, retaining the core guys, adding the pieces and expecting to win," Thornton said.
While he has made it clear he would like to be go-to guy in the ninth inning, Thornton knows the decision is not up to him.
"I’ve made that clear that I will do what they want, even before the deal," he said. "They gave me security and trust me. My goal is to stay in Chicago the rest of my career."
" My goal is to stay in Chicago the rest of my career."
And as long as you follow Billy Wagner’s arc, you can.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
This is a good signing.
Hope they can leverage his use in key situations against top hitters instead of putting him vs. bottom of the order because it’s the 9th. Now hopefully Chris Sale will have at least a year or two to develop into a good starting pitcher.
I typically am not in favor of signing relievers to big money
Especially at this point in their careers. But, this seems to be a fair contract to both sides. The organization has received a pretty amazing deal with him so far.
I still think the Crain and Ohman deals aren’t good. Also the thought of still paying for that crappy linebrink contract for one more year is insane. Thankfully he won’t be pitching for us though.
"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."
by BobbySouthSide on Mar 6, 2011 7:52 PM CST via mobile reply actions
hey, look what ozzie said
“No matter what (Thornton) is, he’s an important piece. Sometimes the eighth inning is more important than the ninth. Right now (the closer role) is still open.”
"when the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." ~~cantona
Gotta motivate the other kids somehow
Take your whosh like a man, dammit. - RWShow
White Sox Baseball:
We’re so expensive, we force Christians to steal. - blackoutsox
by Shoeless In SC on Mar 6, 2011 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
Hell, if he really believes this...all the better.
Your 2011 Chicago White Sox: Donkey Kong!!!
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Mar 7, 2011 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
hopefully ozzie follows through on that
Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Mar 7, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
hard to argue with this. if he stays healthy, it's a steal.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
SI has a nice article on Dunn and DHing
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/03/06/wsox.dunn.1/index.html#
Our manager wears 13, we were supposedly cursed, and we wear black. Let's play.
Where is my new content????
What kind of a joint is this?
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
Yup.
Was going to go to the DMV today, too. Big plans ruined all around.
THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT SHOULD BE POOTY GOO
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Freezing here today. 72 degrees and sunny. Just met with a client last week whose niece was in from Binghamton. Told her what I’m telling you, Boss:
MOVE!
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."
He will when he's as old as you.
Does UZR take into consideration the JumpThrow?
by Tdogg on Mar 7, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Yes, everyone should defend the boss.
I like this.
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."
Well, you are not allowed to move here
without an athletic contract, DB.
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."
Roberta Flack loves homeless animals.
Go talk with her. (I will not reference the BEP version.)
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."
TWSS.
Weirdo. I bet you LOVED the movie “Powder”.
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."
#WhiteSox at Ari (Tuc): milledge7, ram6, dunn dh, q9, castro2, morel5, mcpherson3, lilli4, danks8. Jackson.
#WhiteSox vs. Cle: pierre dh, beck4, rios8, pk3, aj2, viciedo9, tea5, viz6, gartrell7. Harrell pitching.
Cleveland playing all left handed pull hitters?
If not, I’m going over.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 7, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
i pick one
I hope Kotsay gets hit by a dump truck and slips into a coma where he is stuck forever in Baseball purgatory having to bat against a three-headed, six-armed Lefty Hydra consisting of Billy Wagner, Damaso Marte, and Randy Johnson. - Shoeless In SC
tyler saladino, many peoples' pick for a sleeper prospect, broke his hand and had surgery today.
apparently similar to trayce thompson’s injury last year.
Can't hang this one on me.
All yours.
"It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee."

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