The Pierre Problem

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on May 12, 2011 10:34 AM CDT

Juan Pierre is a known commodity. The proto-typical 'grinder' type, he has no power, gets on-base at a .346 career rate (.325 this year), which is decent but not stellar and is fast. His speed is his best asset and enough to cover a lot of ground in the outfield, but...let's just say the arm strength is lacking. A favorite of Ozzie, he's a really nice guy and an upgrade over his paler-counterpart from 2005, 2006 and 2009. Problem is, he's literally the worst player in Major League Baseball right now.

That's right folks....the balls he usually gets to are clanking off his glove, his routes look like the Tasmanian Devil and even when he does get on base, he's picked off. And off. And off. And off again. Everyone in baseball respects Pierre's work ethic, all his teammates love him and he never lets his own struggles dampen his enthusiasm for team success. The most obvious choice for replacement (down on the farm), Dayan Viciedo, does not fit the kind of hitter profile Ozzie* likes to have starting off games.

We all know we're 'all in,' but how long can you continue to play this hand? Juan's BABIP, while not great (.275) doesn't suggest he's been Rios-ian in bad luck. And once again, there are the fielding issues. You feel bad for the guy before you remember how angry you are with the whole thing. How long can this go on for?

*The kind of hitter *Ozzie* wants. Doesn't matter if you want a different type of hitter up there.

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Viciedo has been tearing the cover off the ball down here

5 rbis the other night, 2 more hits last night. Hello?

Sabermetrics hurt my head, just give me the facts.

by CATDADDY47 on May 12, 2011 11:06 AM CDT reply actions

What hello? I didn't question Viciedo's ability to hit, the question if/when you bench Pierre

is ‘Who bats leadoff?’ No way it’s the Cuban Pimp.

AJ Pierzynski: You have to want to catch.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on May 12, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions

the other cuban.

by larry on May 12, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Oy. Guess it would have to be.

AJ Pierzynski: You have to want to catch.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on May 12, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions

what is pods up to these days?

by craigws on May 12, 2011 11:38 AM CDT reply actions

free agency

by larry on May 12, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions

bangin' his hot wife, I'd hope.

We all make mistakes wu.. I’m sure there has been a few times I was drunk enough that I forgot to put the booze in - Grinder in Training

by Shoeless In SC on May 12, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions

i didn't realise he was actually the worst.

-1.1 WAR so far. eesh.
nice work.

by craigws on May 12, 2011 11:39 AM CDT reply actions

And he's the worst by far, too.

AJ Pierzynski: You have to want to catch.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on May 12, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions

the only problem i have with the viciedo reasoning is

when people bitch about juan’s defense, it’s not like dayan is going to be any better out there.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on May 12, 2011 11:46 AM CDT reply actions

this

Dayan doesn’t even touch that Hunter ball last night (twss). We would literally have the worst outfield in the majors, if we don’t already.

by Rhubarb on May 12, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions

cardinals are pretty bad int he corners, but the bats are making up the difference.

UZR: Oh the underwear I’ve seen.

by e-gus on May 12, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions

holliday is pooty goo defensively.

by craigws on May 12, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions

with one notable exception, iirc

"I kind of thought it was a Pussy Pitch" - Kenwo, on the changeup

by DrEmilioLizardo on May 12, 2011 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions

stoopid colorado.

by craigws on May 12, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions

an OPS over .800 makes bad defense far more palatable.

by larry on May 12, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions

the ability to hit to make up for his mistakes will at least make us feel better.

by craigws on May 12, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions

this

Outfielders who can actually hit get way more leeway and the production is easier to quantify.

Bat Alexei lead off if you have to.

"Do you guys think you know more about sports than MJ or Kobe?"

by Tdogg on May 12, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't bitch about Quentin's defense.

by Grinder in Training on May 12, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions

*I don't bitch about Quentin's defense this season.

fixed.

by larry on May 12, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Disagree

I was too busy hating Juan Pierre even last year. And Mark Kotsay. At least I can understand why Q is out there, even when he’s struggling I understand.. well he might hit 30+ homeruns, so I’ll let that disastrous line to a flyball go.

Pierre, I don’t like his style of play to begin with, so anything he does poorly just pisses me off.

by Grinder in Training on May 12, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Yep.

now i feel highly umkempt - pierzynskirules

by RWShow on May 12, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions

at least it might be better in the obvious ways.

i.e. Q looks better than JP, just cuz he can catch the damn ball when its within 5 feet.

by Trooper on May 12, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions

OT: who is the most average replacement player in the bigs the last few years?

Who is the very definition of 0.0 WAR as a regular contributor?

by Rhubarb on May 12, 2011 12:02 PM CDT reply actions

willie bloomquist.

by larry on May 12, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions

heh, CQ

technically

by WSO on May 12, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions

I seem to recall the one of the knocks on the (good) Twins was that the outfield of Young/Span/Kubel would be a defensive nightmare

Didn’t really hurt them last year, did it?

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on May 12, 2011 12:06 PM CDT reply actions

what about this year.

by larry on May 12, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions

This year, I reckon most Twins fans wish their problems were limited to bad outfield defense.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on May 12, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions

of course.

but we’re talking about a player with no experience in left field with a still as yet unproven offensive track record in the majors, a centerfielder who can’t hit – and who doesn’t have a stellar recent track record, either, and a right fielder who can’t play defense who doesn’t have a stellar recent track record. sure, if everything breaks right, we won’t give a shit if viciedo and quentin are flopping around the corners like sea lions.

by larry on May 12, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions

if they make noises like sea lions i will actively encourage it.

by craigws on May 12, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions

Did you know the sea lions at Fisherman's Wharf have disappeared?

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/12/30/Sea-lions-depart-Fishermans-Wharf/UPI-58981262196467/

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on May 12, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Well that's lame.

by Grinder in Training on May 12, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Might as well start my 2012 outfield right now

So a Cuban, a Puerto Rican and Hispanic go into a bar……………..

"Do you guys think you know more about sports than MJ or Kobe?"

by Tdogg on May 12, 2011 1:04 PM CDT reply actions

Go on.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on May 12, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions

The Hispanic says to the Puerto Rican, "Check out the cans on that Cuban!"

The Puerto Rican says, “I’d like to lift the emargo on those bitch tits.”

by Rhubarb on May 12, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs

Dayan's tits aren't that big.

Yet.

now i feel highly umkempt - pierzynskirules

by RWShow on May 12, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions

B cup?

by Rhubarb on May 12, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions

emargo was Jim's nickname in HS.

"I kind of thought it was a Pussy Pitch" - Kenwo, on the changeup

by DrEmilioLizardo on May 12, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions

FTLB

by Rhubarb on May 12, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Quentin was born in California.

I assume by Hispanic you were talking about Quentin. Would it be appropriate to call him Hispanic?

We all make mistakes wu.. I’m sure there has been a few times I was drunk enough that I forgot to put the booze in - Grinder in Training

by Shoeless In SC on May 12, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions

I was born in Illinois. Would it be appropraite to call me Irish-Italian?

by U-God on May 12, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions

no, you're american.

by craigws on May 12, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions

this is what I was getting at.

We all make mistakes wu.. I’m sure there has been a few times I was drunk enough that I forgot to put the booze in - Grinder in Training

by Shoeless In SC on May 12, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions

the answer is yes

because that’s still my heritage.

by U-God on May 12, 2011 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions

but nobody's ever gonna refer to you that way, whitey.

by Trooper on May 12, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions

well almost nobody.

forgot how WU rolls.

by Trooper on May 12, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions

oh ok.

that’s why I asked. I was genuinely curious.

We all make mistakes wu.. I’m sure there has been a few times I was drunk enough that I forgot to put the booze in - Grinder in Training

by Shoeless In SC on May 12, 2011 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions

your heritage?

you’re getting a turd in the mail for that one.

Original visitors' friend in the Lancaster County area!

by colintj on May 12, 2011 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs

YOU'RE WHITE?!?!

by WSO on May 13, 2011 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions

You do know what a joke is right?

I know where Quentin was born. And yes he is of Hispanic descent.

"Do you guys think you know more about sports than MJ or Kobe?"

by Tdogg on May 12, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions

WHy would that matter?

by joewho112 on May 12, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Whereas Viciedo may very well end up being a terrible defender in LF,

Pierre is terrible in a number of ways, INCLUDING defensively.

The value of the offensive upgrade from Pierre to Viciedo would far exceed whatever minimal downgrade in defense there would be from Pierre to Viciedo.

now i feel highly umkempt - pierzynskirules

by RWShow on May 12, 2011 2:54 PM CDT reply actions

i don't think pierre is going to match his WAR from last season.

not from the way he’s started this season. His WAR value from last season was almost entirely built around his base runs above average and his fielding. Both have been lacking this season.

We all make mistakes wu.. I’m sure there has been a few times I was drunk enough that I forgot to put the booze in - Grinder in Training

by Shoeless In SC on May 12, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions

why does everyone say that .350ish obp is only decent

I say thats pretty damn good for someone who has no power. Maybe when combined with his lack of power it looks bad, but I would be happy with a team average of .350 obp.

nice summary

I hope Kotsay gets hit by a dump truck and slips into a coma where he is stuck forever in Baseball purgatory having to bat against a three-headed, six-armed Lefty Hydra consisting of Billy Wagner, Damaso Marte, and Randy Johnson. - Shoeless In SC
It's like trying to sneak the sun past the rooster. - Hawk Harrelson

by blackoutsox on May 12, 2011 3:04 PM CDT reply actions