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Converting to Konerkoism

Even more troublesome is Konerko’s potential for deterioration. For $12.5 million a year, and at three years for a guy turning 35 in March no less, is the sort of gamble that comes from teams overpaying because they’ve been perpetual losers or because of unnecessary emotional attachment. Yes, Konerko is a Reinsdorf favorite, so his return was almost guaranteed, and, yes, he was staggeringly good last year, and there is no chance he repeats it. None.
-- Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports

Paul Konerko hit the ground running with a dynamite April, carrying a lackluster offense through some pretty dark times. Regression caught up to him in May, with a two-week slump dragging his numbers back down to familiar territory. However, he found a way to shake it off when the calendar flipped to June, where he rediscovered levels of elite American League production.

Now, the only question is ... which year am I talking about? Last year, when Konerko discovered reserves of talent in the midst of a prolonged, gentle decline and posted a career year at the age of 34?

Or am I talking about this year, when Konerko has done the same damn thing?

His numbers from the first 68 games of each season tell the story:

Year G PA R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
2010 62 265 37 66 11 0 17 52 36 37 .296 .396 .574 .970
2011 65 282 32 79 11 0 16 52 28 38 .322 .390 .563 .953

 

Or, more succinctly:

  • 2010: 160 OPS+
  • 2011: 160 OPS+

The guy whom Passan said had "no chance" of sustaining his renaissance wants to do more than just repeat his career year. He appears to be hellbent on cloning it.

Star-divide

Even in 2011 Konerko's line is much more likely resemble what he produced from 2007 to 2009, when he hit a composite .260/.350/.475. Those are solid numbers, but unspectacular for a first baseman who provides no defensive or baserunning value. If he hits like that for the next three years, the White Sox will be taking a loss in value on the deal (though they did load the contract with deferrals that will spread payments out until 2020), and that's assuming he doesn't actually decline, in which case they'll have an unmovable player in 2013 who's dragging the offense down.
-- Keith Law, ESPN.com

Until last year, I'd been among the many who put Konerko in the "unspectacular" bin. Sure, he was the cornerstone of the World Series team, and I loved that grand slam as much as anybody. He even posted a better year in 2006, but that only allowed him to work out of a hole I put him in for being in the anti-Frank Thomas camp with David Wells earlier in the decade.

I'll grant that's emotional and irrational to some degree (although it makes sense on paper, siding with the greatest player in the history of the franchise over a professional slob). But it was accompanied by annoyance at more substantial issues -- his tendency to get into massive slumps, and his tendency to wear those slumps on his face and shoulders. He had defense mechanisms in place to avoid inspiring people, and when Ozzie Guillen anointed him the team's captain before the 2006 season, even Konerko agreed that it didn't really fit him.

With Jim Thome and Jermaine Dye on the team, Konerko was more or less just a guy. His numbers were mostly sufficient, but they never stood out too much (even when he had a career year in 2006, Thome and Dye were markedly better). Small nagging injuries held him back in other seasons. He didn't see much of a point in team meetings. He never suggested that changes were needed. He seemed content to blend in.

That's not Konerko's fault, but I felt like the Sox were trying to pass off something I couldn't really see. Like, sometimes I'll run into a pet owner who feels compelled to project a personality onto an otherwise detached dog. Their golden retriever or whatever will be lying motionless while a toddler pulls on his ears. "He's so good with kids, isn't he?" they'll say. On the outside, I'm doing my best uneasy Paulie-grade half-smile in an attempt to share the moment. On the inside, I'm thinking, "Maybe he's just indifferent."

I looked at Konerko in a similar light. The Sox told me he was the captain and the rock. From my perspective, he was thrust into a position of leadership, but he's only capable of leading by example. And between a prolonged slump here and a bad thumb there, he struggled to stay in a tone-setting condition.

Over the last eight baseball months, he's been Paulie the Pitch Pipe. He slugged in April while the other bats froze. He went 10-for-18 with a floating bone fragment in his wrist, then, after having it surgically removed, he smacked two doubles in his first game back. Hell, he took a fastball to the face, and then homered on the next pitch he saw. Besides watching Pablo Ozuna run out a double on a broken leg, it might be the manliest thing I've seen on a ballfield.

He might be 35, but he can still get around on any fastball. And when he needs to look off-speed, he'll shift gears into front-foot mode and think right field, which is why he's hitting .322 this year. Konerko is impressive, and in an unassuming way that leaves me wondering what his teammates are watching.

Gordon Beckham mimics Konerko's between-pitch routine, but he can't copy the way Konerko keeps his head on the fastball. Alex Rios has twice Konerko's speed, and yet he's grounded into twice as many double plays because he rolls over the outer-half pitches that Konerko dumps into right field.

"Why can't they be more like Konerko?" I think. And that's something that never crossed my mind before the past calendar year, because I didn't think a team could handle more than one Eeyore.

The droopy donkey is no longer an apt comparison. This version of Konerko, Leader of Men can lead by example because Konerko v3.0 performs no matter what. That's not the model the Sox always sold, but I'm happy to buy into it now.

Yes, just like Law said, Paul Konerko has become virtually unmovable. I don't think there's anybody in the White Sox organization who would entertain trading him, and it's finally starting to make sense to me.

Comment 176 comments  |  9 recs  | 

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FJP.

Paulie fo’ life.

AJ Pierzynski: You have to want to catch.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Jun 15, 2011 10:06 AM CDT reply actions  

"Professional slob".

Jesus, Jim. About fucking time you see the light. He isn’t Frank. Who is?

The same for the rest of you who wanted to let him go to BAL, or LAA, or BOS. He could fall on his face the rest of the year and I’d be satisfied. (Well, maybe not.) If a guy doesn’t fit into your “box” you want him gone.

He deserves to stay. He and MB are the faces of the franchise. And for you Trader Vic’s who like player transactions you are missing some great, great Sox history that you will be proud to share with your offspring.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 10:25 AM CDT reply actions  

I think the professional slob comment

was directed at David Wells, but I could be mistaken.

by polodude017 on Jun 15, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm certain it was. Don't mind WU, he knows not of what he speaks.

Not unusual, but I’m pointing it out in this instance.

;-)

"we are going to have a skirmish" - pierzynskirules

by RWShow on Jun 15, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

I re-read the slob line as well, but am all but certain Jim was referring to Wells there.

I mean… such an apt description for that professional slob after all. ;)

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." big_fun, on ESPN loyalties

by homesickalien on Jun 15, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was burning through it.

Upon reflection, I understand. Still, a bit confusing. Tighten it up, Boss,

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

face of the franchise

After hitting his 500th home run, Thomas stated, “It means a lot to me because I did it the right way.”

"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."

by BobbySouthSide on Jun 15, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

History is fine and good...
If a guy doesn’t fit into your "box" you want him gone.

He deserves to stay. He and MB are the faces of the franchise. And for you Trader Vic’s who like player transactions you are missing some great, great Sox history that you will be proud to share with your offspring.

…But my offspring would probably like to see a team that makes history too. And that’s what most of the arguments for letting him walk involved – it could have given us a first-round pick in one of the most loaded drafts of recent years, for example.

I was not thrilled with the Konerko re-signing, but I didn’t hate it either, and in hindsight I’m obviously thus far pleased with it. But there were plenty of good reasons to let him walk, and those good reasons will still apply when future beloved players consider going elsewhere. The White Sox made the right decision in the other direction with Rowand and Jenks and I hope they will continue to leaven loyalty with pragmatism in the future.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

This.

Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease

by Chiburb on Jun 15, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

---
it could have given us a first-round pick in one of the most loaded drafts of recent years, for example.

Letting one of your best players and face of the franchise walk in favor of a dice-roll wouldn’t make a ton of sense. It would have been just as well not to sign Dunn, for example. Hindsight, of course.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jun 15, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

It actually does make a ton of sense

Dice rolls are a part of the game. No team can fill its roster with sure things, and the teams that try to do so end up with too many aging players with immovable contracts.

Yes, prospects are a risk to bust, but they’re also an opportunity for huge savings when they work out, and those savings can go toward improving other parts of a team.

The draft pick is not the only reason for letting a veteran walk and it doesn’t necessarily mean that Konerko should have walked or Dunn should not have been signed, but it’s part of the calculation that is frequently discarded too quickly when people are talking about a player they like.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

The first round pick should not be the guiding principle

Konerko is as close to a sure thing as better-than-average 1B get. Letting a player like him walk for the draft pick is not rolling the dice. That’s what you call a blatant rebuilding effort.

The White Sox are still climbing out of a PR hole from their age of letting stars walk for the draft picks, and trading half their pitching staff for dice rolls when 3 games out.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 15, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

it would have been a blatant rebuilding effort if they replaced him with rebuilding pieces.

not sure adam dunn/dayan viciedo would qualify.

also not sure how many people still care about ’97, let alone remember it. 80% of this board was in middle school or below.

by larry on Jun 15, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Carlos Pena would have been a worthless placeholder

You all had the discussion this spring on how Viciedo was a clear step down from Q, even with Q’s problems. He would also be a clear step down from Konerko. Dunn was an unknown, switching leagues, and in my opinion, would have been a step down from Konerko.

Nobody cares about ‘97, but there’s a whole generation that had the door to White Sox fannage shut on them. And as beloved as the White Sox are right now, it would only take a few cheapie moves to get everyone here harping. We White Sox fans are whiners.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 15, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

if you're gonna go with you all, how about berkman.

http://www.southsidesox.com/2010/10/28/1781142/a-pitching-duel-til-the-8th-boom-go-the-ex-sox#50672763

of course there’s emotion. there’s also 2.5+ years left on the contract. as you point out, white sox fans would whine almost anyway this turned out.

by larry on Jun 15, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice call.

That’s worked out well for the Cubs so far.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you're going all the way back to '97, why not '94?

Personally, I have more hard feelings about that year and what Reinsdorf helped create than I do ‘97. That’s not whining, it’s the truth.

"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."

by BobbySouthSide on Jun 15, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think there's an entire book to be written about

Reinsdorf’s vagina-sand castle he built from buying the club through 2000, his redemption, and eventual triumph in 2005.

I have stated previously that the White Sox were one of the most reviled teams in the game because of Reinsdorf. And many White Sox fans hated the White Sox. Every public statement, every player move, every stadium decision just seemed to be a collossal fuck you to the world.

If we’re still not the most reviled (outside of the Yanks, RedSox and Cubs), it’s because nobody cares about us anymore, not that we’ve grown beloved.

Letting Konerko go for a cheap alternative would have had WSox fans on a hair-trigger to start screaming after the first Oney tweet, Ozzie f-bomb, blown save, anything. The local media treats the White Sox pretty well.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 15, 2011 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

80%?

fewer.

much fewer.

But, like, who cares right? Sack up and such. ~ colintj

by e-gus on Jun 15, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not a "guiding principle," just one factor, and PR concerns largely take care of themselves when a postseason-bound team is on the field
Konerko is as close to a sure thing as better-than-average 1B get.

I’m not sure where you’re getting this from. A 35-year-old coming off a sequence of up-and-down seasons that included everything from mediocrity due to nagging injuries to a career season is not at all a “sure thing.”

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say the last few years when he was not injured (wrist, back)

he has been consistent.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

But injuries can be consistent, too.

As one Jake Peavy can attest.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Jun 15, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a bit extreme.

Once PK’s wristy thing was fixed in whatever offseason (‘09?) he’s been good to go.

May as well bring up China Beckham, always getting hit by errant batted/thrown balls, too.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

konerko's thumby thing, though,

has bothered him multiple times.

disheartening-o-meter: 7.9

by BuehrleMan on Jun 15, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

With the amount yours is up your ass,

yours should be bothering you, too. ;)

And as an OG, I have no idea of the concept of “multiple times”.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup. He's had a thread of nagging injuries through consecutive seasons.

He’s not a red flag like Peavy, but a yellow flag was warranted.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Jun 15, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

So he's a big flag?

Flagged.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd.

AJ Pierzynski: You have to want to catch.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Jun 15, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

You can also add Ventura, Thomas, Durham, Baines and others I'm not thinking of right now

when we discuss letting players go who aren’t worth what they’re asking.

I don’t thing there were any clear, cheaper upgrades for Konerko (or AJ, for that matter) on the FA or trade market (Lance Berkman notwithstanding), or in the White Sox system. So the White Sox paid what they had to with the reasoning that they’re still trying to compete.

You’re talking about offering him arbitration, hoping he doesn’t accept, and then getting 2 picks in return when he signs with the Twins. Again, the Sox felt they had a team that could seriously compete by bringing back Konerko and AJ, adding Dunn and a reliever or two. Did you think, back in mid-March, that they would have been better off with Carlos Pena, Flowers at C, and a couple of draft picks – competing this year?

Talking totally out of my ass here, knowing they weren’t going to be throwing 1st round money at someone may have allowed them to get Konerko and Dunn. At the time, we were all pretty happy with that move.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 15, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't have to be an upgrade

If it’s a cheaper player, the money can go elsewhere to fill other needs.

You’re talking about offering him arbitration, hoping he doesn’t accept

No no, you would be hoping he did accept – that would be awesome. They did offer him arbitration back in November and that was a smart thing to do regardless of if you wanted to sign him. Win/win for a player like that.

But he would never do it, in arbitration he would have gotten a fraction of the money that he got as a free agent.

Did you think, back in mid-March, that they would have been better off with Carlos Pena, Flowers at C, and a couple of draft picks – competing this year?

No, I didn’t bring up Pena nor suggest that Flowers could have been the 2010 starting catcher. But were there viable choices besides signing Konerko? Definitely.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

er, 2011 starting catcher

Obviously he couldn’t have been the 2010 starting catcher.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

who dis?

I am a lutheran simpleton fuckwit - bobpuller

by Rhubarb on Jun 15, 2011 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rowand and Jenks did not compare to Paulie in longevity or performance.

Please. And although Becks is still quite young, our 2007 first rounder, in one of the more loaded drafts, is still struggling. (Not that PK hasn’t had his – his are a bit more predictable.)

No one is suggesting we keep the same team together every year even if we win hardware – that makes no sense. PK and, frankly, AJ, to me were a case of “who’s better that we can get below market?”, and the answer being “no one special”.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't say Jenks and Rowand were comparable to Paulie

Just that they were other situations where the team made the right choice in regard to an ’05 hero.

How much money has Beckham’s struggles cost us? To whit, how much could you add to the team with the money you would save if Beckham had never been signed? Maybe a utility infielder? That’s the difference, when a drafted player struggles the team is losing out on far less than when an expensive veteran doesn’t produce.

PK and, frankly, AJ, to me were a case of "who’s better that we can get below market?", and the answer being "no one special".

PK is debatable. If you genuinely believed that his 2010 season was a new plateau and not a peak, then sure, I agree. Most of the commentary I saw on SSS and SoxMachine over the winter was predicting at least some regression. And certainly non-White Sox oriented media were.

AJ had one of the worst years of his career last year and he’s basically continued to hit in that same vein (currently a very Pierre-esque .280/.320/.360), with mediocre defense and baserunning. He’s not a terrible value because he can play so much, but they certainly could have gotten someone similar in value at just a one year commitment.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wanted Castro/Flowers

or even Olivo. No complaints about 2 million but 6 next year? Ouch.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 15, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

You certainly are comparing all "heroes" from '05. Some have been good far longer and are not personal goofballs.

AJ is trending up. He’s recovered much more quickly re: performance than last year’s salary drive. And he’s actually thrown out a few runners. Olivo, as Tdogg says below, would’ve been OK. Flowers looks like a train wreck.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying they should have treated Konerko the same way they treated those guys

Like I said, it’s looking like the team made the right call in Konerko’s case, if he keeps hitting anything like this.

We can wait and see how AJ does in a larger sample size.

I’d like to see a bit more power from Flowers, but OBPing .382 in AAA is hardly a “train wreck.”

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

K rate is still way too high.

He should be improving. He’s not. When you have larry saying he’s a backup catcher after originally being a huge booster I might temper the enthusiasm.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see him improve in that respect too, but I'm not sure how you can say a guy with a .50 OBP increase from last year isn't improving

If you put the emphasis too heavily on avoiding strikeouts, as Ozzie sometimes has, you get players like Pierzynski and Pierre, who aren’t doing a whole lot to help this team at the plate right now.

Not saying Flowers should even be the answer, but I don’t think he should be off the table either.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course he's not off the table - he's an asset we own.

But he doesn’t seem quite ready for the jump quite yet.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

But if he had a good second half and was looking ready for at least a part-time role in 2012, that would be a lot easier to put into effect if the team wasn’t committed to Pierzynski for two years.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

The probability someone picked 8th does well

is a lot better than a supplemental and 2nd round pick which is most likely what they would have gotten if they let Paulie walk and offered arb. The White Sox tend not to take players they are going to have to give double slot to sign. They had the opportunity to take advantage of high-level talent sliding this year and chose not to. Maybe because they pump so much money into the big league team.

Maybe they could have gotten a better deal for a one-year catcher but given the volatility of the position it’s understandable that they took a familiar bet.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jun 15, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

IIRC, they looked around,

and AJ was all but signed with the Dodgers.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

How do you figure he wouldn't have pulled in a first round pick?

I don’t think he was exclusively a target of clubs with protected first-round picks.

And pumping all that money into the big league team while ignoring the value of the draft and international signings is part of the problem.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

the primary (reported) team pursuing konerko other than the white sox

was arizona. which would have made a lot of sense for konerko. i imagine that’s what he’s figuring.

by larry on Jun 15, 2011 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

A lot of sense for Paul, sure

I don’t really see the Diamondbacks’ angle though, in an off-season when they’re doing things like unloading Reynolds, were pretty clearly rebuilding, and had several first-base candidates in the pipe either for 2011 or later.

I guess we can’t know what would have happened, but my point isn’t really Konerko v. draft picks – just that draft compensation would be one of a number of factors to consider when deciding whether or not to bring back a player like him.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

The D-Backs' angle:

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/NickPiecoro/110269

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Jun 15, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course they considered all of the factors.

They felt it was worth the risk of bringing him back and it’s starting to look like it was.

The Diamondbacks liked Konerko. Maybe for the same reasons the White Sox do. They did offer a little less per Jim’s link.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jun 15, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure, I agree

This is all getting kind of granular but my overall point was just that they were pretty viable non-Konerko paths open to the team this past winter and his excellent performance so far has done little to invalidate those alternative paths.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and with what they're trying to do bringing back Konerko made sense.

Just like how it was rational to bring in Dunn but that isn’t working out as well.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jun 15, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

You take issue with the philosophy. That's reasonable.

I’m sure Konerko wouldn’t have signed with a team with a protected first-round pick. Just not a fit there, save maybe San Francisco.

by Daniel Berlyn on Jun 15, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

with the way rowand played (i dont care how terrible he is now)

he could have been a fan favorite with the sox

RECENT BOX SCORES
ADAM DUNN DH/1B
7 1/3 1HR 2K
60 0/4 4K

by Chicago Pride 2005 on Jun 15, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

huh?

are you suggesting he wasn’t already?
have you not heard tale of The Legend?

by craigws on Jun 15, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kiss my ass.

No, obviously there is some discussion to be had re: why we signed Paulie.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who’s that writin?
     John the Stimulator
Who’s that writin?
     John the Stimulator
Who’s that writin?
     John the Stimulator
A book of the SSSes

"we are going to have a skirmish" - pierzynskirules

by RWShow on Jun 15, 2011 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Number retired, face on outfield wall, etc.

If he was a little more Gordon Beckham and less Harold Baines he could own this town.

Did I mention I’m enjoying the hell out of his “Lion in Winter” phase?

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Jun 15, 2011 10:27 AM CDT reply actions  

I like that very much.

He is tough. “Konerko” and “Butkus” have the same ring to them.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Lion in Winter?

Does Konerko keep his wife in prison, allowing her out only for a week at Christmas, at which point she schemes with her favorite son to overthrow Konerko, and install her favorite son as White Sox 1B?

The Lion in Winter is my favorite Christmas movie.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 15, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

He keeps his wife in a 16 thousand square foot house

Lots of nooks and crannies, places to get lost, and so on.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Jun 15, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

House of Leaves

It isn’t 16k sq. ft. anymore. It is confoundedly expanding.

I am a lutheran simpleton fuckwit - bobpuller

by Rhubarb on Jun 15, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Like the universe.

And people’s minds, it seems, when it comes to certain aging baseball players. :)

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

awesome book

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Jun 15, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

jim, this is a great write-up on kong, and i echoed similar thoughts on konerko (many times)

particularly this one:

He even posted a better year in 2006, but that only allowed him to work out of a hole I put him in for being in the anti-Frank Thomas camp with David Wells earlier in the decade.

all of my hate towards kong has gradually disappeared over the last two years. i even recall a quote from him this year (unfortunately with no citation…thanksdye!) that invoked big frank in a positive light.

Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jun 15, 2011 10:28 AM CDT reply actions  

oh, and FKL and FDW

Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jun 15, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

If you take off your black and white colored White Sox glasses,

You really won’t see much of a difference between the guy you want to see, and the guy he actually is. Pitchers have to be terrified of facing this guy this year.

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Jun 15, 2011 10:31 AM CDT reply actions  

one additional note, if kong continues his performance at this pace for the remainder of the season

, roughly half of his contract will have been paid for

Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.

by onlysoxfaninbasel on Jun 15, 2011 10:33 AM CDT reply actions  

deferred money included?

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jun 15, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

bwaha!

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." big_fun, on ESPN loyalties

by homesickalien on Jun 15, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely.

Was it last year or two years ago he was shitting all over Alexei? Mr. Leading AL Shortstops in OBP?

"The Sox have a better home record than the Twins, but...we're not at home right now." -DJ

by Joist on Jun 15, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Keith Law kinda shits on everyone.

Every time I read something of his and he says something disparaging about anyone, fans of that team flock in to accuse him of anti-their-team bias. He just hates everyone, and everyone thinks he hates them specifically because they don’t read his stuff unless they talk about his team.

He is wrong a lot, and he is right a lot, like most baseball analysts. He makes his points bluntly and may be a bit of an ass at times, but I don’t think he shows much bias against any team. Besides, didn’t Law call Ozzie one of the best managers in baseball this past offseason? Law may be a bit of an ass, but he’s hardly an ass with an anti-White Sox agenda.

by mechanical turk on Jun 15, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty much.

Although I imagine a lot of people got to know him through his regular rounds of Alexei-ribbing in 2008. I don’t think that reflected well on him.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Jun 15, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Law is a douchebag - arrogant, and doesn't take criticism well.

Apologist for Law, turk?

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I too am coming around on Paulie. I always liked him but he bothered me at times.

It used to be that he hung his head after a ground out and was up and down emotionally and statistically. He seems like he found an inner peace that he didn’t have for most of his career and is thriving in that mindset. Hopefully the physical part of the equation can hold up over the next two and a half years.

I am a lutheran simpleton fuckwit - bobpuller

by Rhubarb on Jun 15, 2011 10:41 AM CDT reply actions  

He hung his head, he hung his head.

It’s OK sometimes. A little shame never hurt anyone.

Just a little.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are you jeff passan?

he didnt count on him maintaining his inner peace apparently

by ndsoxfan on Jun 15, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

It took me 6 months to get one screen name working

I don’t know how you kids manage 6.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 15, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah it was

I don’t remember reading that article but perhaps it is buried deep in the depths of my frightening consciousness.

I am a lutheran simpleton fuckwit - bobpuller

by Rhubarb on Jun 15, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

me, my dad and grandpa called him the bum in the few years he was REALLY bad. he made us look very bad.

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by Chicago Pride 2005 on Jun 15, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

The man is dominating.

This is the Paul Konerko we’ve waited his whole career for.

"we are going to have a skirmish" - pierzynskirules

by RWShow on Jun 15, 2011 11:07 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm interested in seeing KenWo's take on this since he's fought liking Konerko for so long..

But I second what others have said here… wonderful piece. Gotta love the captain.

"Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic" - Crash Davis

by Servant2LordBeckham on Jun 15, 2011 11:19 AM CDT reply actions  

I never cared for konerko.

I didn’t like trading mike cameron for him.
I didn’t like when he backstabbed frank.
I REALLY didn’t like when he cost us the playoffs in 2003.
I continued to dislike him throughout 2004.
I was flabbergasted that they traded c lee and dumped magglio to keep this goof in 2005.
he had a great 2005. i took back points 1 and 2 after this. 3 remained. konerko is just unlikeable.
2008 he was horrid again. and my hatred from 2003 grew and grew as he doubled that performance.
2010 i was very impressed with his hitting. i said multiple times that he had a great year- not even i could complain about it.
2011 he has been outstanding again and is really making strides to have me forgive and forget 2003 and 2008.

i will never be the biggest konerko fan. however his work the last 2 seasons have been inspiring. i wish he played like this his entire career.

i will go to bat for him on his defense though. i always thought he played a hell of a first base and do get agitated when i hear people say his defense hasn’t been good.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 15, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've marveled at the type of hitter Konerko has become.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 15, 2011 11:35 AM CDT reply actions  

You'll be doing handsprings over AJ soon, too.

Heh.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I remember at the turn of the century, when a young Konerko was my dad's "boy-crush". Chiburb related to his scruffy handsomeness, if I recall his rationale correctly.

By 2003, Crede replaced PK as dad’s boy-crush, but PK took on a new role – “man-crush”!

Paulie has always been a favorite in our family, but slumps like ’03’s are near-impossible to forget. The way Jim described how he wore his slumps in his face and shoulders is so fitting. Those were frustrating times, but we still believed he was capable of consistently seeing the ball in the way he is now, finally, really seeing the ball.

Being dubbed Captain seemed like a sincerely well-thought move by Ozzie.
For a franchise that gets so much negative publicity, a lot of which comes from the mouth of our manager, it’s nice to have ‘just a guy’ like Konerko as captain.

And now, at a time when he’s supposed to be declining as rapidly as his hairline, Paulie is absolutely crushing it with an incandescent C.
Too much fun.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." big_fun, on ESPN loyalties

by homesickalien on Jun 15, 2011 12:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Percentage of hits to opposite field
     Konerko   Rios
'08     9.5%  13.0%
'09     7.3%  12.5%
'10    11.1%   7.5%
'11    11.4%   2.0%

by 3E8 on Jun 15, 2011 12:14 PM CDT reply actions  

interesting chart

Rios doesn’t have too many hits in 2011, period.

"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."

by BobbySouthSide on Jun 15, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fucking This.

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Jun 15, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah seriously.

I hate when people analyze baseball without heart. Paulie is a hometown hero, and any Sox fan should be sad to see him go. I enjoy watching him, and I enjoy when I feel a connection with a certain player. Maybe it’s not the perfect dollar value, maybe we should’ve rolled the dice trying to grab a first round draft pick, but you know what, there are other aspects of the game besides pure WPA. Everyone on this site should’ve been behind him years ago.

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Jun 15, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure

I don’t think anyone’s arguing we do that (I hope not, certainly)

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jun 15, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I said I like Pauly but there were times in his Sox career where you could tell he was being a puss about dealing with failure

The last two years he has shed that attitude. It is dumb to be sensitive about me coming around on Pauly.

I am a lutheran simpleton fuckwit - bobpuller

by Rhubarb on Jun 15, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wtf not?

It damn well should considering that was your 1st title in 88 years.

AJ Pierzynski: You have to want to catch.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Jun 15, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will always have a very soft spot in my heart for Pods

but I don’t recall much hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth when he departed.

by Sox-35th on Jun 15, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

See wu's recent post above.

Pods wasn’t exactly in the same catagory as PK, much like Jenks and Rowand.

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Jun 15, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know my man-crush on PK is blinding my observation

but I truly believe that home run has a lot to do with us winning the world series. If nothing else, we could have been 1-1 going to Houston instead of 2-0.

by XuBrent on Jun 15, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Sox were probably never in danger of losing the series, even if they'd lost that game.

But in the context of that game, if Wheeler or Qualls had been able to get that third out, Brad Lidge – who, we should recall, was a fucking monster that year – was going to go two innings, and the game felt quite a bit more difficult to win at that point. That inning built so dramatically – the non-HBP HBP on Dye and so forth – it was simply perfect.

It was most perfect moment of the most perfect season we will ever see.

One home run? It was a whole lot more than that – and yes, it earned him latitude that no other player outside of Mark Buehrle or Frank Thomas has earned with me.

"we are going to have a skirmish" - pierzynskirules

by RWShow on Jun 15, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

That homerun does not erase his 07' and 08' seasons.

I’ll always love Pauly but in those two seasons he was a shell. Who would have known how he would rebounded in 2010, who could have guessed? It could have been a different mental approach. It could have been his thumb wasn’t as fucked as it was. I had a thumb injury my senior year and it was pretty brutal to hit with that. Those two seasons in particular were brutal to watch. Even after his 2003 shitstorm.

I am a lutheran simpleton fuckwit - bobpuller

by Rhubarb on Jun 15, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course they were hard to watch.

I just think it belittles the most significant hit in team history to call it “one home run”. That’s all.

Sidenote: when, who and why did “homerun” start? I hate that.

"we are going to have a skirmish" - pierzynskirules

by RWShow on Jun 15, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like Jim mentioned, his Eeyore attitude has been brutal to watch his whole career, even in his good seasons

It doesn’t appear to be as recognizable today. I remember talking with my dad on Konerko getting down on himself back in the first few years of his career. Man on 1st and 2nd, one out…ground ball to SS, head down, pout, slugs to first. Nobody on, no outs, groundball to SS, head down, pout, slug to first, shakes head. It is refreshing to see him get over that.

Grandslam in WS or not, I hated that shit.

I am a lutheran simpleton fuckwit - bobpuller

by Rhubarb on Jun 15, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Paint me on the side that every franchise has a few "OLD G" calls

Don’t get crazy with it and make them be somewhat reasonable but its the price of doing business. PK was a classic OG call.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 15, 2011 1:42 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

not old G calls

Rowand
Scottie P
Joe Crede
Jenks

Buerhle will be a tough one but I suspect he’ll work with the team to make something possible.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 15, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agreed these were NOT OG calls.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dammit.. I really need more sleep.

I read that as a reply to TDogg’s original message, after already misreading Jim’s line about Wells being a slob.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 15, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

OLD G called explained. underrated film

SouthCentral

Craig Landis- “You take him JR, debt on you – you owe Arizona resident 12 mill”
Kenny- “These peckerwoods goin make it real expensive Kenny”

JR- “This is a OG call – Im keeping him!”

Kenny- OG? Fuck!

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 15, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

oops Kenny taking to JR

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 15, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you tricked us with this last night.

Will wait on The Lord to see what He thinks.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm okay with it.

"we are going to have a skirmish" - pierzynskirules

by RWShow on Jun 15, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

i don't think you really need to put in the whole lineup.

all we really need to see is the first letter. “P”.

disheartening-o-meter: 7.9

by BuehrleMan on Jun 15, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Piranha."

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

"poo stick"

disheartening-o-meter: 7.9

by BuehrleMan on Jun 15, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 16, 2011 8:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Why bat Dunn 7th?

at the very least he will give protection to Q and Paulie

by 815Sox on Jun 15, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ozzie is a big believer in using the lower third of the order to relieve pressure.

Dunn’s been looking a little better, but he’s still not anything resembling “hot.” I imagine he would have to deliver a straight week of quality hitting before Ozzie moved him back up for good.

(And if Beckham is any indication, maybe even longer.)

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Jun 15, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

And now, for the Twins' decimated lineup:

Revere – CF Casilla – SS Cuddyer – RF Young – DH Hughes – 1B Valencia – 3B Dinkleman – LF Tolbert – 2B Butera – C

Woof. How the hell did this team just win 9 out of 11?

by Yinka Double Dare on Jun 15, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

rec'd

and stop raining!

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jun 15, 2011 3:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Looks like thunderstorms at about 6,

Then it dies down around gametime. I think they’re gonna get this in.

by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Jun 15, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

fixed

Then it dies down around gametime. I think know they’re gonna get this in.

I am a lutheran simpleton fuckwit - bobpuller

by Rhubarb on Jun 15, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh heck yes. Let's play some based balls!

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." big_fun, on ESPN loyalties

by homesickalien on Jun 15, 2011 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

May I say, this thread has been awesome.

Thanks, Boss. Even though you did the “slob” thing sloppily, IMO. You are the Man.

And despite his prodigious, powerful display,Battling loneliness, rage, misery
There really isn’t much else left to say.

by winningugly on Jun 15, 2011 7:37 PM CDT reply actions  

WOW!!!

When i saw this i bursted into a fit of HAHAHAS and WHAT NOWs

RECENT BOX SCORES
ADAM DUNN DH/1B
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by Chicago Pride 2005 on Jun 15, 2011 9:10 PM CDT reply actions  

That being

when i read the quotes of jeff passan and ugh Law

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by Chicago Pride 2005 on Jun 16, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

am i the only person who thought of bokononism

when reading the title?

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Jun 15, 2011 9:15 PM CDT reply actions  

I love

I love how hawk keeps bringing up his home in scottsdale

RECENT BOX SCORES
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7 1/3 1HR 2K
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by Chicago Pride 2005 on Jun 15, 2011 9:39 PM CDT reply actions  

He does?

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Jun 16, 2011 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

lots of times

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ADAM DUNN DH/1B
7 1/3 1HR 2K
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by Chicago Pride 2005 on Jun 16, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

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