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The Best Thing About Baseball

The video says nothing.  I don't feel slower.  I'm still seeing the ball...

At this point we all know the story.  Model of consistency collapses completely.  Everyone wants to know what the problem is.  We've heard various A Scout Says stories about how it's not his mechanics.  Dunn and Greg Walker don't seem to really know either, at least according to reports.  If his performance against his old club is any indicator, it's just suck and more suck and suck forever more.  Feels that way, right?

What's all the more worrisome is how incredibly rare this is.  Eric Seidman went looking for comparables dating back to 1950.  Of all full time players with 3 consecutive seasons with power like Dunn's, just 34 have experienced similar drop-offs.  He found that most of the players in question were at the end of their careers or struggling through some injury.  Dunn is only 31 years old.  No matter what you think of the Old Player Skills Theory, none of it suggests a decline of this nature.  For instance, Dan Szymborski's projection system, ZiPS, uses comparable players to create player-specific aging curves.  ZiPS projected Dunn home runs in 2011? One short of 40.

Star-divide

In other words, now is the time on Sprockets when we exonerate Kenny Williams.  If you're blaming KW for this, you're just a crazy person.*

So no one saw this coming and suckage of this magnitude is almost totally without precedent.  How can we explain it?  Me being me, I'm going to keep looking at more numbers.  For example, his contact rate is more or less what it was last year.  To repeat: when he swings, he's making contact at about the same rate as in 2010.  In fact, it's all of 2% better this year than last.  Just to make sure there wasn't anything really aberrant in the fangraphs numbers, I checked with Texas Leaguers.  From 2008-2010, he whiffed on 29% of swings.  In 2011, it's 31%.  And yet he's gone from K'ing about a third of his plate appearances to well over 40%.

He's not whiffing any more than usual.  He's just doing it with two strikes far more often.  To me, that says one of two things: it's bad luck or bad planning.  A note on the former: however improbable it may seem, it's entirely possible to keep rolling snake eyes again and again.  It's always good to get a reminder than human beings have a specific idea of what true randomness is...and it's not true randomness.  We can be fooled, says Nicholas Nassim Taleb.

But the thing is, Adam Dunn is a human being, very probably with the same idea of what true randomness looks like. On August 6, 2010 Dunn hit two of his signature monster home runs and took two walks.  Over the next three games he got 12 at bats, had no hits, no walks and struck out 8 times.  That's just baseball.  Sometimes it's heads, sometimes it's tails.  Sometimes you're on, some you're off.  As Manny Trillo put it:

The best thing about baseball is that you can do something about yesterday tomorrow.

But again, that's not true randomness.  Human beings love to underestimate the chance of low probability events.

Incidentally, Manny was a lifetime .345 slugger in 17 seasons.  The worse your day is going, the more you can hear a tired sarcasm in his voice.  As in, there's always tomorrow ready to pound your head in just like yesterday.  As in, there's always tomorrow...until there isn't.  You don't feel different.  But the ball's waiting for you at second after a good break on a righty with no move. 

...Am I just telling myself what I need to hear?  

So yeah, between a truly pure strain of sustained randomness and the difference between good and bad in this game, at some point it starts to interact with the psyche.  When it goes from ignorable to unavoidable.  You can only go so long before you're turning on yourself.  And we've seen Dunn do that.  The way his head hangs and his shoulders slump after yet another third strike that he saw and just swung through but swung through differently all of a sudden since he seemingly can't not swing through.  And he shuffles off to the dugout to wait for the chance to do it all over again.  

This kind of randomness is going to affect a player's mental state.  And while it's exceedingly rare, we know that players do just unravel.  That's Blass Disease in a nutshell.  But the fact is that in the long history of baseball, what we know is that players get worse and get better over the course of years.  And the ones who've demonstrated their abilities eventually get back on track.  There are always aberrations.  As fans, we're always deciding whether or not they're aberrations and whether our hero will get off the mat or that they've finally found their kryptonite.  Me, I've seen this before.

From the beginning of the season in 2007 to July 6, Jermaine Dye hit .214/.271/.402.  For the next year and a half, he hit .293/.351/.552. 

From the beginning of the season in 2003 to July 10, Paul Konerko hit .183/.258/.274.  For the next year and a half, he hit .279/.357/.530.

Y'all remember that aforementioned study by Eric Seidman?  Did you notice that he went hunting for whole seasons?  His methodology was to find 3 good seasons with a bunch of plate appearances and then to find a bad whole season following it.  Not half.  Whole.  

And more or less the guys he found were washed up or injured.  Because while slumps can be very long indeed, it's also incredibly rare that they truly last a whole season.  A slump that goes a whole season means injury or age are interfering, or both.  

What would he have come up with if he went looking for half seasons?  What if instead of really really good power hitters, it was just regular old power hitters?  All of a sudden more examples are popping up.  Examples of guys who go on to have careers.  I bet if you went hunting for bad half seasons, you'd find a ton.  As for guys who were magically washed up at mid-career, who can you think of?  Ben Grieve is the only guy I can name.

Say what you want about extenuating circumstances and the various differences between the players in question.  Find any two examples and there's going to be something that sticks out.  Something that lets us say This Time Is Different.  Except it's just not.  We're not working with a singular example for whom history just does not apply.  Adam's just a human being doing it a little bit differently because he's a little bit different than the guys who came before him.

And I'm not just saying that.  I went back and looked.  I watched every plate appearance from the Nats series, usually more than once.  Then I went back and watched a bunch of games where Dunn struggled in 2010 and did the same.  This is not scientific, strictly speaking.  It doesn't meet the qualifications for double blind.  And it's true that I'm not a pro scout.  I would love it for those who can to go back to the tape and tell me what they see.  In any case, here's the play-by-play, in the order I watched them:

 

  • 6/26 - Livan Herndandez - Slider in for a ball, then change up in the dirt.  Slider in catches the inside corner, called strike.  Then backdoor curve that's probably off the plate but he gets a strike anyway.  Fastball in gets murdered…but foul.  2-2.  Then fastball up and in for a called strike 3.  According to brooks, also fairly questionable.  K.
  • 6/26 - Livan Hernandez - Slider in, swung through.  Can't check on the cutter too far in. 0-2.  Fastball up and out, not really close.  Fastball up and in, also not really close, 2-2.  Fastball, up and in, not a strike and Dunn swings through it.  Pitch trax doesn't show a single pitch in the zone.  K.
  • 6/26 - Livan Hernandez - Cutter in, swung through.  Backdoor curve misses.  Curve in taken for a strike, 1-2.  Fastball up and out, fouled straight back.  Fastball up and out, taken, 2-2.  Pitch trax shows only the curve in as a strike.   Fastball in, murdered…but foul.  Another fastball in murdered but foul.  Curve away, ball 3.  Slider in, swung through for strike 3.  K.
  • 6/26 - Sean Burnett (LHP) - Catcher sets up low and away but fastball is up and splits the plate for called strike one.  Fastball right there splits the plate at mid-thigh. 0-2.  Checks on the fastball way low, 1-2.  Shanks a fastball much like the 2nd pitch oppo.  Gets the whiff on a fastball way inside, K.
  • 6/25 - Tom Gorzelanny (LHP) - Fastball away on the corner, swung through.  Slider down and away called strike 2.  Leaves a fastball just off the corner alone for a ball.  Then fastball up just off the edge swung through for the K.
  • 6/25 - Tom Gorzelanny (LHP) - Fastball in for a strike, taken.  Fastball down and in misses, 1-1.  Slider middle in hammered foul, 1-2.  Fastball in and off the plate, chipped foul.  Slider bounced, 2-2.  Fastball off the corner by a hair, 3-2.  Fastball middle of the plate and up but in the zone swung through, K.
  • 6/25 - Tom Gorzelanny (LHP) - Curve down splits the plate for a strike. Slider low and away for a ball.  Fastball well inside, swung through, 1-2.  Fastball away and off the plate.  Fastball away on the plate swung through, K.
  • 6/25 - Henry Rodriguez - Wild pitch fastball, 1-0.  91 mph change off the corner, 2-0.  Another change, this time down but on the plate and Dunn swings over the top.  Fastball down and in, 3-1, followed by a fastball on the edge for a second strike.  Bounces a 92 mph change for ball four, BB.
  • 6/24 - Jordan Zimmerman - Fastball up and in for a ball.  Second fastball hits the up and in spot for a strike and Dunn swings through.  Curve dropped in at the top of the zone, strike two.  Fastball well up, 2-2.  Slider misses way in and low.  Slider this time hits the spot, Dunn looks like he checks, tosses his bat to take his walk and the umpire rings him up, K.
  • 6/24 - Jordan Zimmerman - Fastball off the plate away for ball 1.  Fastball up and in on the plate and Dunn swings through.  Backdoor curve misses, 2-1.  Fastball up and in also off the plate.  Fastball right there and Dunn fouls it straight back.  Hard slider finds a spot down and in.  Dunn whiffs, K.
  • 6/24 - Jordan Zimmerman - Fastball up and over the plate, taken for strike 1.  Fastball in but on the plate, just above the knee and Dunn mashes it.  It's going over the fence until Roger Bernadina decides it isn't.  F8.
  • 6/24 - Sean Burnett (LHP) - Loopy slider in there for a strike.  Fastball in but on the edge also called a strike.  Slider low and away just above the dirt for a ball, 1-2.  Fastball middle in, thigh high and Dunn fouls it straight back.  Fastball down and in, off the plate, 2-2.  Fastball a little closer this time, but more or less same spot.  Full count slider away and Dunn reaches and chops foul.  Fastball away, Dunn reaches and grounds hard to the 2B playing on the grass in the shift.  4-3.
  • 6/24 - Todd Coffey - 94 mph fastball center cut roped for a double between the line and the right fielder.  2B.
  • 6/24 - Tyler Clippard - Fastball up and away but on the edge for a strike.  Slider upstairs, 1-1.  Fastball way up, Dunn checks but get called on a swing, 1-2.  Fastball up and in misses and evens the count.  Fastball belt high and inside off the plate fouled straight back.  Change up away but just on the plate tipped straight back.  Fastball waist high just a bit off the plate inside and again fouled straight back.  Change up away rolled over.  4-3.
  • 6/24 - Collin Balester - Fastball rides well off the plate for a ball.  Another fastball down and away but on the plate chopped foul.  Curve up and away taken for a strike.  Another curve at the bottom of the zone, this time hammered for a single. 1B.
  • 8/17/10 - Mike Minor (LHP) - Fastball inside, mid-thigh, taken for a strike.  Fastball away at the knees right on the corner, 0-2.  Fastball up over the middle of the plate but well out of the zone, whiff for strike 3.  K.
  • 8/17/10 - Mike Minor (LHP) - Fastball up in the zone and splits the plate, but fouled straight back. Fastball up and in at the letters for a ball, 1-1.  Fastball low and on the outer third called for a strike.  Fastball up, away and out of the zone for the whiff.  K.
  • 8/17/10 - Mike Minor (LHP) - Change over the heart of the plate for a strike.  Another change looking to nick the corner low and in  misses, 1-1.  Fastball out over the plate and up, whiff.  Fastball low and in off the plate, 2-2.  Fastball low and away out of the zone and Dunn reaches to chop out.  3U.
  • 8/17/10 - Takashi Saito - Fastball out under the numbers gets a whiff.  Fastball in under the numbers get another whiff, 0-2.  Fastball away well off the plate for a ball.  Splitter dives down and in for the 3rd whiff of the AB.  K.
  • 8/18/10 - Tim Hudson - Fastball low and too far in.  Slider in belt high gets a whiff, 1-1.  Fastball away induces a bouncer.  3U.
  • 8/18/10 - Tim Hudson - Fastball low and away on the corner, strike.  Slider up and in misses in.  Backdoor slider grabs the plate, 1-2.  Fastball well in, thigh high that Rob Dibble for some reason can't believe isn't a strike even though the pitch trax says the opposite.  Slider down and in gets him.  K.
  • 8/18/10 - Tim Hudson - Fastball away off the plate.  Fastball away, but not the plate and rolled over.  4U-3 DP.
  • 8/18/10 - Billy Wagner (LHP) - Curve at the belt and a bit in for strike 1.  Fastball more or less center-cut and thigh high fouled back for strike 2.  Fastball up and out off the plate and then another fastball up and off the plate.  Same spot a little more on the plate and Dunn swings through it. K.
  • 8/7/10 - Hiroki Kuroda -  Fastball away but in the zone and then a splitter just off the dirt for a whiff.  Finished off with yet another split for a second swing and miss.
  • 8/7/10 - Hiroki Kuroda - Slider above the knee splits the plate and earns a whiff.  Fastball up and in but in the zone fouled straight back.  Splitter bounces, 1-2.  Fastball middle of the plate but under the letters also fouled straight back. Split away misses, 2-2.  Split away fouled off.  Finally finds his spot with it down in the zone and Dunn swings over the top.
  • 8/7/10 - Hiroki Kuroda - Fastball way down.  Fastball low and away probably in the zone rolled over.  4-3.
  • 8/7/10 - Hong-Chi Kuo (LHP) - 3 big heaters up and in.  First one whiff, second foul, third pop out.  PU5.
  • 8/8/10 - Ted Lily (LHP) - Fastball inside off the plate for a ball, then another, 2-0.  Third of the same gets Dunn swinging and missing.  Fourth finally catches the plate and Dunn fouls it off.  Fifth is over the plate but up and Dunn chases.  K.
  • 8/8/10 - Ted Lily (LHP) - Slider low and away is too low.  Fastball in more or less the same spot but a little up finds the zone, 1-1.  Change up in the zone, very hittable, but fouled lazily back out of play.  Curve nicks the inside corner for the punch out looking.  K.
  • 8/8/10 - Ted Lily (LHP) - Fastball away at the knees is there for a strike.  Change a bit lower gets a weak swing and miss, 0-2.  Fastball up and out misses.  Fastball in off the plate fouled away.  Curve low and away and Dunn just gets a piece, 1-2.  Fastball up and in, maybe a strike gets a pop up.  PU6.
  • 8/8/10 - Octavio Dotel - Fastball up and in for a strike, then a fastball up and away, also strike, 0-2.  Curve in the dirt and Dunn checks.  Fastball down and in gets a swing over the top.  K.
I did not notice a significant difference in body language between the two seasons.  I think he's started to pick himself up a bit and come to terms with what's happening.  In both, he got mad a couple times for swinging through something that he thought he would really get a hold of, but on the whole he seemed fairly zen to me.

The biggest difference was how many pitches he was seeing.  And as it turns out, he's seeing almost 4.4 pitches per PA this year versus 4.1 last season.  Interestingly, last season during spring training he didn't hit a single bomb.  The Nats announcers mentioned in one of his PAs I watched that rather than actually try to hit anything out, he would just work at seeing as many pitches as possible in order to get where he needed to be.  

I know MarketMaker suggested it doesn't look like he's sitting on anything in particular. My preferred suggestion is that he's got a specific program in mind.  Yes, he's sitting on the fastball, but there's an extra bit tossed in.  Now he's also trying to see a few more pitches than usual in order to get his rhythm down and confirm what he's seeing is actually there.  Remember, he's a guy who whiffs a lot regardless of whether he's going good or bad, so he doesn't get the same feedback per swing as other guys.  He just flat out misses instead.  So his corrective, in part, is just to see pitches up close.

Beyond that, there were a lot of hard hit fouls in the 2011 PAs compared to 2010.  He's not where he needs to be obviously, but that's not manifesting itself as more swing-and-misses than usual.  From what I saw, he just wasn't putting those balls into play, so rather than K in short order (like many of those 2010 examples), he'll work a count, get his pitch, whack it foul and then find himself with two strikes.  If nothing you make contact with will stay in play, all you can do is walk or strike out.

I can't say it'll all be roses from here on out.  I'm not a pro scout.  Who knows what kind of whispers there are in the dugout about the specifics of Dunn's ailment.  But to me, I've seen this disease before.  It's rare, but eventually it goes away more or less on it's own.  It's just a matter of whether or not you'll let yourself be derailed by randomness.  Having watched those PAs, I think I see something substantially more than despair.  To me, there's resolve.  I see a guy who won't quit.  And that's really all it takes when the talent's still there.  Something like

C'mon Meat, throw me that weak-ass shit.




 

 

 

*There're pills for pretty much everything these days.  See Globochem for details.

Comment 271 comments  |  17 recs  | 

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nice

I think this is the new definitive “whats wrong with Dunn” article. There’s still no answer of course… This whole saga would be fascinating if it wasnt costing my team wins.

Thanks.

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Jun 30, 2011 10:00 AM CDT reply actions  

as i read through his nats at bats

it seems like he’s not making pitchers pay for their mistakes, especially if it happens early in the count, and that could have something to do with trying to see more pitches.

brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight

by whitesoxmatt on Jun 30, 2011 10:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Sigh.

The pit in his stomach grows larger and deeper, reaching a place he didn’t know existed. He never had to feel this pain. Never thought he would. But it’s there. He can’t shake it. He’s tried everything. Can’t do it.

He steps into the batters box. He looks at the pitcher, another faceless person salivating at the chance to strike him out. That’s the thing about baseball. Pitchers know when you’re struggling. They don’t have to read about it in the newspaper or on the stat sheet.

They can see it. They can sense it. They can smell it.

And then it begins.

Strike one.
Strike two.
Strike three.
Yer out!

Dunn walks back to the dugout and he hears it.

Cascading down from the 500 level, erupting from the first and third base sides, even roaring from the fancy luxury suites, they come from everywhere:

The boos.

All directed at one man.

Him.

http://www.csnchicago.com/06/29/11/Sox-Drawer-Booing-Adam-Dunn/landing_soxdrawer_v3.html?blockID=538164&feedID=621

Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease

by Chiburb on Jun 30, 2011 10:35 AM CDT reply actions  

This will all serve as a great prelude to the fantastic second half

followed by a Hollywood ending playoff performance by Dunn.

A guy can dream.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Probably a 163 performance this year.

Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease

by Chiburb on Jun 30, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

garfein should never write

dude has no idea what the fuck a paragraph is

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jun 30, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

tremendous.

maybe i’m just looking for excuses but my eyes have been telling me for a while that dunn has been at least a little unlucky, meaning it seems like he has seen more than his share of a combination of borderline calls go against him and pitchers absolutely acing him.

sunshiney craig's comment about me has had the effect of rendering me too self conscious to maintain my public exhibition of ennui.

by BuehrleMan on Jun 30, 2011 10:39 AM CDT reply actions  

whatever.

sunshiney craig's comment about me has had the effect of rendering me too self conscious to maintain my public exhibition of ennui.

by BuehrleMan on Jun 30, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Even sigher:

You said it right Chuck
4:55 pm Jun 29, 2011

The Press doesn’t pay to see the mess on the field. Only FANS do. How come football and basketball players get boo all the time? Yet still perform? Why are baseball players ego’s so fragile? The only thing Dunn can hit with his bat is a dozen donuts.

Posted by CHESSFU at 4:55 pm Jun 29, 2011

Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease

by Chiburb on Jun 30, 2011 10:39 AM CDT reply actions  

Right now at a Sox game ...

the only entertainment you can have watching Dunn at bat is to boo him. On the other hand, although they are adding to the stress of the situation now, I think if this guy hits out a few of those boston cremes and long johns, the fans are going to forgive and forget this 80 game slump in a week.

by Billy Charlesbois on Jun 30, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

1995 was a very frustrating year as a Sox fan

We expected a repeat of 1994 after the strike, but didn’t get it. Julio Franco jumped ship, so we picked up Chris Sabo, who wasn’t Julio Franco.

There was a game I attended, where we just couldn’t get it going. I think it was a 7-5 loss against the Royals, the Sox just couldn’t tie it, kept running into stupid outs, and stuff. And the Royals didn’t want to win, either. It seemed like errors, and mistakes kept going both ways.

Finally, during what passed for a rally, then, Chris Sabo was on 2nd, and somebody singled. The 3rd base coach held up Sabo, and everybody booed out of absolute frustration. The scoreboard video rotation then displayed the applause meter, at which point, everybody started booing and screaming expletives as loud as they could.

Never saw a video get pulled so fast.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I typically stick to booing the other team ...

but when hometown fans are booing their own, it can create an extra dramatic element to a game. It’s not like they are booing him because they don’t like him as a person. Its because he struck out again with two men on. They are just people drinking at a ballgame after all, it’s like they are the Phelps family outside a military funeral.

by Billy Charlesbois on Jun 30, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you're saying that it's like booing death at a funeral?

I think it may have something to do with the fact that the batter makes more in a year than most fans will make in a lifetime. So if you’re going to make 15 million, I’m going to scream like the crazy mid-level manager at work does.

Shit rolls downhill.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whoopsie Daisy

That was a typo: i meant to say it wasn’t like they were doing that. I’m with you.

by Billy Charlesbois on Jun 30, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Booing is an expression of frustration

Kind of like, yelling at the TV. “C’mon, you MF, hit the f*cking ball for once, why doncha?” It’s a silly, vicarious thing to do, watching a baseball game, and getting so invested that we would jump up and scream at the top of our voices when something good happens, so what’s the big deal when people would bark out when they’re frustrated?

I understand the argument that it doesn’t help Dunn. Apparently, neither does patiently waiting. Seriously, if the guy’s worth his 15 million, nothing should help or hurt his ability to pull his shit together, and start hitting. He’s paid to concentrate. He’s paid to judge situations, predict a pitch sequence, adjust, and hit ball with bat. If booing really gets to him, he’s not doing his job.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Allow me to unfairly characterize your comment

“If me be an asshole bothers him, it’s his fault”

Still means you are being an asshole.

No one is defending the players right to let booing get to him. We are criticizing people who garner entertainment/enjoyment/whatever from making other people feel bad when they already probably feel really shitty.

by joewho112 on Jun 30, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

you got bullied in high school didnt you.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Nope, we had a pretty chill high school

I was also friends when a bunch of football players so that probably helped.

by joewho112 on Jun 30, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

But seriously, who gives a shit how Dunn feels?

He took a job where he will get booed when he slumps. That is part of the game. It’s nice to empathize with the individual players, but I believe it’s generally understood that getting booed during slumps is something that comes with being paid 15 million a year for 4 years guaranteed to be an athletic entertainer.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't care how Dunn feels

I care about knowing that I’m not an asshole.

by joewho112 on Jun 30, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

probably White Sox fans should, because feeling good is probably better for performance than feeling bad…

by chiefgint09 on Jun 30, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe I can show up at his house on an off day and rub Dunn's feet

maybe that will help him feel better and come out of his slump.

If I shell out $400 to go see the Stones, I’m not going to worry that Mick Jagger saw somebody wearing an Aerosmith t-shirt in the front row, became sad, and mumbled and sulked through the entire show. He’s paid to perform.

Maybe fans should hope that when a player swings and misses 3 times, they should give him another half a dozen chances to hit the ball, because swinging and missing might make Dunn feel bad, and then perform worse.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

if you try to play a guitar that you already know how to play

you’ll play it until a string breaks. try hitting a baseball.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'd pay to watch that.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you under the impression that bands don't perform better when they have a good crowd that is into the show?

Because I found the opposite. I am sure Mick Jagger would give a pretty terrible show if the crowd just stood there and booed.

by joewho112 on Jun 30, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are correct.

But if the Stones decided to just sleep walk through a set because they weren’t being cheered properly, I think they might eventually get booed, or word might get around that the Stones aren’t as reliable a live show as they are.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

This analogy fits

because Adam Dunn doesn’t swing unless you cheer him.

by chiefgint09 on Jun 30, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I find it annoying when Dunn wears a cordless headset mike at bat

and screams out “Helloooo Chicagooooo!!!!” after the first pitch. Maybe the banter with the crowd takes his focus off of his batting.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

i am.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know this KenWo

I’m trying to draw lines in the sand here and see how the factions are shaping up.

by Rhubarb on Jun 30, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

sweet.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I am, a little.

Instead of having children run the bases after a game, when Dunn strikes out, they should allow all the children in the stands to come on the field and hug him, and cheer him up with their giggling. Then he can eat ice cream with them, and about 45 minutes later, the game could start back up.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

lol.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'd pay to watch that.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I feel like if I am booing, I am only doing it because other people are,

Otherwise, if something horrible happened I would probably just comment to the person sitting behind me. I always like talking to the person behind me at ball games for some reason.

by Rhubarb on Jun 30, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I boo people who turn around to talk to me

Why dont you talk to the person in front of you? Because they aren’t your captive based on the fact that you aren’t in their line of sight?

Leave me alone! BOOOOOOOO straight up right in your face!

:), wait, I mean :(, no, its >:o

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Jun 30, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe that goes for the 100 level

you pull that stuff in the 500 level you’re liable to get yourself shanked

by moroots on Jun 30, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

True.

The nuances of the 500 level are lost on me. I sat in the 500 level this year, for the first time since Game 2 ALDS 2005.

by Rhubarb on Jun 30, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

ah yes

the cleansing power of the pipe.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh stop it besides the sox/cubs games

there are many more morons where we sat for the methup than in the 500 level. its not even close.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I rarely lol

but when I do, I lol for shit like this.

by Rhubarb on Jun 30, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

one of the better parts about the Cell

is that there is always someone who wants to chat with you.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not the same though. Not at all.

Yelling at the TV or swearing out loud at the ballpark in frustration is an impulsive reaction.

Continuing to boo a guy as he walks back to the dugout is not an impulse. You are purposely insulting the guy.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 30, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

no its not.

I impulsively boo when he strikes out and impulsively cheer when he hits a home run

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jun 30, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

when you are watching a game at home...

and he strikes out do you literally yell “booooooo!” at the TV? Because I’d like to see that. That’d be pretty funny.

"You go up there, against a dog-ass line up AND pitcher, and you don’t do a fucking thing with it. They whip your silly, sorry, saggy ass AGAIN, and you look like fucking bottom-ass, bitch-ass chumps doing it." - 2HA

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 30, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe once or twice

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jun 30, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's just me alone in my apt and I'm booing out loud at the TV just to see what it's like.

I think I look and sound ridiculous and I don’t feel any better for doing so.

"You go up there, against a dog-ass line up AND pitcher, and you don’t do a fucking thing with it. They whip your silly, sorry, saggy ass AGAIN, and you look like fucking bottom-ass, bitch-ass chumps doing it." - 2HA

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 30, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

you look ridiculous no matter what youre doing.

i look cool booing the tv. :)

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

some people are just naturals, what can ya say? :)

"You go up there, against a dog-ass line up AND pitcher, and you don’t do a fucking thing with it. They whip your silly, sorry, saggy ass AGAIN, and you look like fucking bottom-ass, bitch-ass chumps doing it." - 2HA

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 30, 2011 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I seriously don't understand

why anyone would think that how much a person makes means that booing shouldn’t affect them.

by chiefgint09 on Jun 30, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

the poor bastard,

whenever he had a bath his servants carried his used towels out above their heads. above their heads because he had touched them and so they were divine.
that’s gonna fuck with a guy’s head. almost as much as an axe, but not quite.

by craigws on Jul 8, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes you do understand.

Dunn is an entertainer, at the very core of it. He’s paid to perform in front of tens of thousands of emotional fans.

The fact that 43,000 screaming fans just happen to be there that night isn’t some incidental coincidence that nobody foresaw.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am not so much worried about Dunn's psyche

than the annoyance of the boo’s. I am seriously embarrassed for people who boo. I suppose it is cathartic to certain types but it really doesn’t do anything productive. I am not trying to convince you to my side either, this is my opinion.

by Rhubarb on Jun 30, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I share your opinion that it's unproductive, and assholic

But it’s an expected part of the game, and Dunn is paid quite nicely to not let it affect him.

I don’t go to the game believing that my actions affect anything that happens on the field. Maybe that’s how fans come to believe that Dunn’s slumping because the fans are doing their part, he’s just not playing hard enough.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree with the fact he isn't playing hard enough

perhaps he is not preparing well enough or taking the right steps to improve his play but how can you play hard as a DH? You make your muscles go through short bursts and depending on whether you succeed or fail you either head toward first or toward the dugout.

by Rhubarb on Jun 30, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying I believe he's not playing hard enough

I’m saying that maybe fans who believe their actions at the game have any effect on the outcome are probably believe that players slump because they’re lazy.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

people are emotionally invested in this stuff

its why we are all on this message board.

i react to the game in front of me, sometimes its with a boo or a “You fucking suck!” when they let me down.

this whole idea of not booing reeks of everyone gets a participation trophy. No sir, I dont like it.

"A lot of misinformation," the source said.

by e-gus on Jun 30, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

yes! Egus is in!

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with you Gus

I’m not going to advocate booing. But I understand.

It’s kind of like when Chris Rock said. “I don’t think you should choke your wife, but I understand.”

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

well right

it’s not like i don’t get the emotion. i’m advocating being the kind of human being who thinks before they act. the kind of booing that’s going on right now is pretty clearly not the gut-reaction booing kind.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, if Dunn strikes out for the 4th time in a game I attend

and the crowd starts booing, I will think about it, and then join right in, all the way into the tunnel to the club house.

I don’t stand up and vomit into the crowd. I don’t pour drinks on people around me. I don’t pontificate about the game, and I don’t yell that Ozzie’s a jerk every 15 seconds for 8 innings.

If Dunn can’t take it, maybe he should get a job at my office where I am never unfairly criticized for the work I do, even when I have things going on in my life, like a family illness, or plumbing problems or whatever. Hey wait, I am!

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

thank you

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jun 30, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I support the booing of pro sports commissioners.

Players, not so much. At least put forth some effort and tell Dunn with that kind of swing he should try cricket.

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 30, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I got on this blog to try to figure out

what the difference between velocity and speed is.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Jun 30, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

how'd that work out for ya?

"You go up there, against a dog-ass line up AND pitcher, and you don’t do a fucking thing with it. They whip your silly, sorry, saggy ass AGAIN, and you look like fucking bottom-ass, bitch-ass chumps doing it." - 2HA

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 30, 2011 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

you've seen that thread haven't you?

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jun 30, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man I was there for that shit.

I lurked more back in those days.

"You go up there, against a dog-ass line up AND pitcher, and you don’t do a fucking thing with it. They whip your silly, sorry, saggy ass AGAIN, and you look like fucking bottom-ass, bitch-ass chumps doing it." - 2HA

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 30, 2011 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

this, re:annoyance of the boo's

I’ve never boo’d a player or an umpire or a call, I dont think (maybe in drunk, mob-rule mode long ago, but not knowingly boo’d). I reserve and exercise my right to boo fans though. I’ve boo’d:
- fan dropping the easy foul ball
- fan not giving a caught foul ball to a kid
- fan wearing the wrong colors when shown on the scoreboard
- I’ve never seen this in person, but I would boo a fan throwing a HR ball back on the field
- fan who’s a two-fisted slopper or clearly ruining the experience
- Ashley Judd once at a Kentucky-Marquette basketball game
- fan who always yells “top me off” to the beer vendor with the wearable keg
- chick who turns down the marriage proposal at a game

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Jun 30, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't blame the chick

doing it at a sports game is retarted. don’t make it public

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jun 30, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

which is why effort is the whole point.

not actual performance.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Booing your own team adds a "extra dramatic element"?

I have never noticed anything like that and I have been to plenty of sporting events…

by 815Sox on Jun 30, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

what's entertaining about booing?

if i’m right, there’s no real difference here.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know some people really hate booing for some reason ...

and I have a bad rep at the Hawks board for defending the boo birds (and for other reasons). Besides the fact that it can be obnoxious and rude, what exactly is so bad about booing that nobody should ever do it? Why shouldn’t the fans give their opinion of the product?

by Billy Charlesbois on Jun 30, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

You want the product to be at it's best, no?

I think most of us agree, baseball is a game that requires great focus and concentration to perform well, and the more confident a person is, the more they can focus on whatever it is they are doing.

So how does booing my own player help my own cause? What benefit do I get from it? If the guy is trying hard and acknowledges that he’s playing poorly, what exactly does booing accomplish, but possibly lower his confidence even more? Even if this is a very small possibility, it’s still a possibility that I think most of us can accept as real.

It seems to me that it is in my best interest for the guys that play on the team I root for, to be in the best state of mind possible.

This isn’t football or even basketball where anger gets you anywhere. You can’t just try harder in baseball. It’s not like a running back trying to break a tackle, or a line backer trying to get through a block. Or even hockey where you can run someone over. This is a game that requires pin point precision to accomplish your goals. I don’t see how booing a guy trying his hardest to do his job is going to help with that.

If you want to boo, you have that right, I just don’t understand the point. I wouldn’t boo a guy disarming a bomb, I’m not going to boo a guy trying to hit a 95 mph fastball.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 30, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you can't disarm a bomb

while someone is booing you, then you shouldn’t be disarming a bomb.

:-)

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not paying $100 for a night at the ballpark

so I can help a team win. I’m there to be entertained. Dude makes 15 million a year, partially financed by taxes on travellers, and at the detriment of other community things so that people can show up to the ballpark, and get the vicarious thrill of gambling their time on an outcome of a ballgame.

Fan reaction is part of the package Dunn signed up for when he grabbed that 60 million contract, or whatever it was. Take care of me forever, and make the next 2 generations of my family completely sufficient, and you can boo me for days on end.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I get no entertainment from booing my own team.

I’d be more entertained if Adam Dunn is in a good state of mind so the next time he bats he performs as well as he can.

by Grinder in Training on Jun 30, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have this weird feeling that we're all being obstinately naive

The point of a sports event is for the hosting team to make money off of fans’ emotional attachment to their team. Sometimes that includes people expressing their frustration with a player who is slumping.

I’m not arguing that people who boo are a valuable part of the game and should be commended for trying to create an environment where a player will be scared to not try, and will automatically concentrate more, and be better.

People who boo a player walking back to the dugout are mean.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then why don't you cheer him while I boo him?

This would cancel my boo and help him with his self esteem and future performance. Better yet, write him a letter and tell him what a good player he is, how important he is and to keep his chin up.

by 25or6to4 on Jun 30, 2011 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

When

you have 25000 people booing you when you fail at something in which you are trying your hardest and have worked your whole life at, I don’t think you are thinking, “It’s ok, I’m rich.”

by chiefgint09 on Jun 30, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

No you think

“Tomorrow you will wake up to your sorry ass lives”

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

FLJ

"he's a fan favorite because the combined fanbases of the other 29 teams dwarf ours and they love him" billyok, on Pierre

by homesickalien on Jun 30, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have typed that in by accident many times

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

it was like fireworks going off brother.

outstanding.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

WTF is lucky about 25 seconds?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Unless it's a WGN game.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Jun 30, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

yah those bastards

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

magnificent

"You go up there, against a dog-ass line up AND pitcher, and you don’t do a fucking thing with it. They whip your silly, sorry, saggy ass AGAIN, and you look like fucking bottom-ass, bitch-ass chumps doing it." - 2HA

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 30, 2011 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

evolutionarily speaking.

get in, get out get on to the next one.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

whatever you do under the blanket is your own business.

and if you’re the Costanza sort, the kind who takes two good things and makes one great thing, the more power to you.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease

by Chiburb on Jun 30, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am a fan of the team. The players come and go, great ones and hacks.

If the sox lose 20 fucking games in a row, I’m watching the next day and pulling for them to win. If there is a cocksucker in the lineup that is contributing to that 20 game losing streak, I’m going to let him and his stupid fucking manager and GM know that I don’t like it. I suppose I could go home and write a polite letter to the editor but Ozzie and KW say they don’t read the papers. They do attend the games though and if enough of us assholes are voting with our participation in the game, things tend to happen.

by 25or6to4 on Jun 30, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

so you're going to waste 200 dollars

to yell nasty things to people who make determinations about what to do based on their revenues. gotcha.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, you don't gotcha.

I’ll boo because decisions were made beyond my control that cause my team to underperform. I could give a fuck less about my 200 dollars because that’s what I choose to do with it and how much money the player makes no difference whether I boo or not. I bood (this can’t be a word?) the decision to play Brian Anderson and Jerry Owens just as vigorously as I boo Dunn.

by 25or6to4 on Jun 30, 2011 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

this is BTS if i ever saw it

also: “booed”.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

It probably is in WWF.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Jun 30, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

good man.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is great.

Only thing I hate (and I know logistics) is its so on top of Jim’s piece. Both could fill a day of discussion and then there is the day game.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 10:39 AM CDT reply actions  

I'll probably bump one above the gamethread after the game.

But since Dunn starts today after two days off, and they’ll no longer be at the halfway point, it’s a jam-packed morning.

The Sox are jerks for playing a day game.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Jun 30, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

pierre lf, vizquel 3b, dunn 1b, rios cf, teahen rf, ramirez ss, castro c, beckham 2b, peavy p

whoasauce

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jun 30, 2011 10:54 AM CDT reply actions  

Forget it Jake. It's the NL.

Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease

by Chiburb on Jun 30, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

all three big bats out of the lineup plus aj?

so morel is a big bat?

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

i think he's talking about buehrle.

he’s leading the sox in OPS again, just like he did in 2009.

sunshiney craig's comment about me has had the effect of rendering me too self conscious to maintain my public exhibition of ennui.

by BuehrleMan on Jun 30, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

any time you have a clean up hitter with a .259 wOBA

you know it will be a good day

brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight

by whitesoxmatt on Jun 30, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh Lord

that’s rich

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

this is truly a fucking terrible lineup.

i guess he’s counting on aaron cook sucking. i mean… whats the difference really- the regular guys don’t do shit besides konerko anyway.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am so with this

Im laughing and thinking the same thing. lmao.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

probably.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. Ozzie will win in spite of himself per usual

and his questionable methods will further be solidified in his own brain.

by Rhubarb on Jun 30, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do think Dunn gets one today.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

nope.

castro will though.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why not, the therapist is already there.

I will stop right here. This can get ugly quick. :-)

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

this

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is one of them days that Vizquel goes 4-4 with 5 RBI

orsomeshit.

"he's a fan favorite because the combined fanbases of the other 29 teams dwarf ours and they love him" billyok, on Pierre

by homesickalien on Jun 30, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

i love it when he hits HR

even better than a Pierre bomb.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I saw one in person last year while sitting in the scout seats behind home plate

It was the game they won against the Tigers, right when they started to go on the miracle run. It was glorious.

by 815Sox on Jun 30, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

So much this.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Jun 30, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think this is a "punishment" game.

A day off for everyone exceeding expectations. Everyone else has to play! Che is in there because of his defense (last night’s DP excepted) as of late.

by winningugly on Jun 30, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

holycanoli

"he's a fan favorite because the combined fanbases of the other 29 teams dwarf ours and they love him" billyok, on Pierre

by homesickalien on Jun 30, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

mike cameron was DFA'd...

what do you think of a cameron/teahen trade. i’m all for it. boston probably wouldn’t be.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 11:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Can he play 3rd base?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

hee

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jun 30, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

who cares

dayan will be here in a week

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jun 30, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

cameron is a legit outfielder.

we could use one of them.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

We have one of them.

Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease

by Chiburb on Jun 30, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

one isn't enough.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

nice

the one thing i didn’t mention is that i do think he looks a little heavier this season also.

it’s interesting that you mention his hands because i thought his load looked a little bit different…but then i saw a few replays of some HRs just while i was watching his crappy ABs and it seemed like his load was slightly different in a couple different ABs throughout the season.

if i had to pick out a difference, it seems like maybe his load is more of a turn in his White Sox pics? if his swing is more of a rotation than a shift from front to back, he might be both a little slower w/ his timing mechanism and it also could get the bat more angled toward first base when he does get the timing right?

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

prince fielder is heavy and a good amount of his swings end up like this...

God dammit. Why oh why couldn’t we have traded for him instead.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Instead of whom?

Dunn was a free agent. I think Fielder would have cost more than Dan Hudson.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

i was prepared to offer floyd.

people jumped on me for it. i still would have done it.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think we had quite the embarassment of riches as we do this year when it comes to starters.

I think moving Floyd and Hudson might have created a void that a Peavy injury would have blown open.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's because it doesn't make sense.

you lose 4 wins to get 4 wins back.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

that wasn't what you said

Prince has to be greater than Floyd + Dunn. even if it comes to pass, it’s unlikely.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

if we're short Floyd because of his trade for Fielder

its likely KW went and traded Viciedo for a vet starter, cuz we’re ALL IN and shit.

It could have caused further mistakes.

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Jun 30, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

absolutely not...

but he’s the fill in. so its well in my favor.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

why not he's who is there.

even if it was harrell id stick with prince and harrell over dunn and floyd.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

because Harrell is far from the average

trash bin pick up, even for the Sox. and if that’s your trade off, Prince was better than Dunn with the bat in 1 in 3 of the last three seasons. obviously Floyd kills Harrell. if you were actually at the reins, you wouldn’t pull the trigger.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

i would! guaranteed.

floyd isn’t that great. Prince is a stud. I never cared for Dunn even before his suckage this year.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jul 1, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

he's still way better than Harrell!

Harrell might not even be replacement level

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jul 1, 2011 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

*Humber, not Harrell

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jul 1, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

if Peavy wasn't a china doll I'd do it now

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jun 30, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

why?!

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

because we have Humber and Sale

this is under the idea that Dunn’s contract doesn’t exist of course

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jun 30, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

well it's more like

you can take an either or. as a fan, i want us to add players, not trade one for the other.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would have too

AJ Pierzynski: You have to want to catch.

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Jun 30, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

most of us do

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jun 30, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt they trade him in his final year

Especially considering they want to make a run

by 815Sox on Jun 30, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's trying to compensate in the team average hand height for Rios.

Rios’ holds his hands so low, that we need 3 guys to hold the bat at full arm extension above their head in the batters’ box to bring the average right back where it should be.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jun 30, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

BTB linked to you, sort of
Colintj of SB Nation’s The South Side takes a longggg look at Adam Dunn using both numbers and first hand scouting of Dunn’s 2010 and 2011 plate appearances. In my humble opinion, a refreshing read.

"A lot of misinformation," the source said.

by e-gus on Jun 30, 2011 12:56 PM CDT reply actions  

That's just the kind of quality posting we see all the time here on The South Side.

The Great Ballparks Tour 2011! Rogers Centre August 29, Yankee Stadium September 2, Citizens Bank Park September 5, Nationals Park September 6!

by mikecws91 on Jun 30, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

colin, you ginger bastard, this is magnificent.

ty.

"he's a fan favorite because the combined fanbases of the other 29 teams dwarf ours and they love him" billyok, on Pierre

by homesickalien on Jun 30, 2011 1:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Colin, did you play baseball at one point?

You are very good with mechanics and if you haven’t played the game personally that makes it even more impressive.

Thanks for the great article.

by 815Sox on Jun 30, 2011 1:41 PM CDT reply actions  

Have you seen Colin?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jun 30, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's racist!

He was a pitcher, mebelieves.

"he's a fan favorite because the combined fanbases of the other 29 teams dwarf ours and they love him" billyok, on Pierre

by homesickalien on Jun 30, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually I have

I don’t exactly scream “hockey player” myself…

by 815Sox on Jun 30, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

In real life he's a wide receiver.

Beware the cure isn't worse than the disease

by Chiburb on Jun 30, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

that's completely unfair

is Loyola even DI?

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're under the impression I care about my alma mater.

Also, shut up. We totally almost beat Butler in the Horizon League finals once!

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 30, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

yep

i’m one of those annoying dudes who mimes their pitching/hitting in public. can’t help it. i was as good a pitcher as you can be for a guy who wasn’t 5’8’’ until senior year of HS (83-85 mph fastball) and i was a pretty bad hitter. but i’ve spent a lot of time thinking about hitting, so i think i’ve got a better handle on it now.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

i would of taken you so deep.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jun 30, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

not on the grammatical test....

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jun 30, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

so deep SO DEEP put her ass to sleep!

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jun 30, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

i woulda plunked you first.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

when i was 12 i hit a kid in the face

there were traces of blood on that plate for a good 5 years after.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

moving at all

was waaaaaay better than what that kid managed. never seen anyone go deer in headlights when their face is at risk like that before or after.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jun 30, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I broke some bones but

i don’t think i ever hit anyone in the face though.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jul 1, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

that was the only time i ever did as far as i can remember

i hit a lot of batters and i even hit a lot on purpose, but not above the shoulders.

He was lookin’ for the Express and got the Local

by colintj on Jul 1, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gingers can be fucking ruthless.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Jul 1, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

ive hit some guys on purpose.

mostly late high school though. i did get one kid i hated from my school right in the back between the numbers. fun times.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jul 2, 2011 2:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

His problem is those sunglasses.

They’re fugly and they look stupid.

"You go up there, against a dog-ass line up AND pitcher, and you don’t do a fucking thing with it. They whip your silly, sorry, saggy ass AGAIN, and you look like fucking bottom-ass, bitch-ass chumps doing it." - 2HA

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 30, 2011 8:59 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Drunk now

But I never gave my real props. Great article. A’s it circulates around the baseball net.

by Rhubarb on Jul 1, 2011 1:47 AM CDT reply actions  

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