Doug Laumann discusses the draft, player evaluation and signability
Thursday turned out to be a great day to learn about the White Sox farm system. In the afternoon, several White Sox bloggers and I got a chance to throw questions at scouting director Doug Laumann, who gave very thorough answers to our philosophical questions about scouting and drafting.
And if you missed it in the minor-league thread, Larry got Kevin Goldstein's thoughts on numerous prospects.
Here's what Laumann had to say to our questions:
On high-upside players with contact issues
"If [a player] is somebody that's a polished player, as well as having those types of tools, they're not going to get that far down in the draft to you. So basically, what we have to do is we have to make an evaluation on their athleticism, and possibly because of the amount of baseball they played -- or perhaps even, you could say, the lack of baseball that maybe some of them played -- that with particular instruction and repetition and the chance to play the game, that eventually they catch up to that level."
"We just take the athlete, and the athlete that has the tools to be able to play the game, and hopefully it all comes together."
"As scouts, the only thing we can look at is tools, and it's hard for us to predict that consistency. It's pretty much in their hands, and how hard they're going to work. As long as we continue to see those tools, we think that there's enough progress that they're eventually going to get it."
On figuring out which guys are signable
"I've always been told by [Jerry] Reinsdorf and Kenny [Williams] that we're going to take the best player available. Now there's a point where I have to temper that a little bit. If we feel a player is valued at X number of dollars, and he wants X plus $2 million, then I'm probably not going to go ahead and take him."
"What we will do is, if a player and what their expectations are, and what our expectations are, are a little bit closer together, I have been given the liberty to go ahead and try to take that player. We did this year with Keenyn Walker -- we paid him a little bit more than what was recommended, but we valued him as a player."
"Often times, a player's value is inflated, whether it be from a coach, an agent, a family member, they sometimes don't really know what their value in the marketplace is, and it's up to us to try to stay within that framework."
"There's times when you take a shot on a guy in the seventh or eighth round, and you don't know if you're going to get him signed because maybe his demands are a little bit higher than what you think his value is. So somewhere later in the draft, there might be another kid in the same situation who you take as kind of a backup for that guy."
"To get a balance of the player having the ability, matching up with what you think his value is, with what he thinks his value is, his medical, his psychological profile, all the different things you have to fit in -- it's not like a fantasy draft. You're not drafting in a vacuum. You have to have all your ducks in a row, and if you don't, you end up blowing a pick."
On a pitcher- and catcher-heavy draft
"It's always our philosophy and our belief to draft pitching. I've said it before, I'll say it every year: If I took 10 pitchers with my first 10 picks every year, I think Mr. Reinsdorf and Mr. Williams would be tickled to death."
"I was once told by a gentleman who's probably a Hall of Fame scout -- Paul Snyder of the Atlanta Braves -- to get one quality starter to the big leagues, it probably takes 10 minor-league prospects ... There are just so many things that happen along the way."
"We think we've got four or five catchers, but you can never have enough catching prospects. You've got to at least one for each team, and if you've got six affiliates, if you think you have six guys who at least have a chance to play in the big leagues, I think you're going pretty good."
On prospects failing for other clubs (Dexter Carter and Aaron Poreda)
"We have a lot of confidence in our pitching instructors and our pitching program. I think it would be a little bit arrogant or elitist to think that our guys know more or do better or work harder than anybody else's staff, but I think sometimes we may recognize something in somebody's delivery or somebody's makeup that allows us to get through to them."
"Carter was very, very, very good for us. He was one of the staples in that trade, and he went out and was just not good at all. We've got him back, and we're starting to see signs of things coming back to his whole package that we had before we traded him away."
"So, I don't know. Maybe sometimes it's just in the makeup of the particular player, maybe the comfort with a certain instructor or certain group of people that are around that allows him to have success. A lot of this is just the matter of opportunity, and maybe we've afforded these guys a little bit more of an opportunity than maybe they were in the other places."
On using teaching to fill gaps in a pitching prospect's game
"We try to work hand-in-hand with our player development ... we think it's really important to work with them. I spend a lot of time talking to our pitching people about, 'If a guy does this or does that, is that something you can fix? Is it something that you can make better? Is it something you can make him more consistent with?' And on the flip side, 'What don't you like about guys? If a guy lands open or a guy overstrides or does this or that, how easy is it to fix?'"
"We try to teach our guys to be able to recognize things like this. I think we've done a pretty good job. The classic example in this is Daniel Hudson, who was a fifth-round pick out of Old Dominion, and the kid didn't even make it to the mound half the time in college. He didn't have a whole lot of success. There were some things that our scouts recognized in his delivery that gave us the feeling like, once he got with our pitching people, if he could make this adjustment or that adjustment ... and that's what happened and that's what he was able to do."
"Because of our theory and because of our opinions on power arms -- Kenny's always been very strong with us to draft guys with power arms -- we have to be able to determine of those power-arm guys, who's going to be able to pitch, who's going to be able to locate with that power arm, and whether or not we're going to be able to teach him a second or third pitch if they don't already have one."
"Our guys have to be smart enough and diligent enough to know which guys are just throwing it up there as hard as they can for the radar gun, versus those guys who, once they are taught to be under control, and once they're taught to be able to locate, are they still going to be able to maintain that type of velocity?"
On changing a player's position
"Often times, the best player on a high school team will more than likely pitch and play shortstop. What we need to do as scouts is we have to recognize whether or not, at the next level, that kid is going to be able to play a position based on the tools that profile for that position."
On Latin America
"I think we're getting close ... Kenny has made an investment personnel-wise in Venezuela and the Dominican, to get some former players that we have on the ground in those areas. We felt like it was very important to have people who have an investment in the White Sox because they've had a history with us, so that we have confidence that they're doing the right thing, so that they understand the system over there."
"But quite honestly, by doing it the way we're going to go about doing it, some of these people are younger guys who maybe haven't scouted before. So, we're going to have to integrate with them some of our scouts, to train them and teach them about the kind of players we're looking for."
"Unfortunately, with the way the system is set up right now, it's hard to be competitive with some of these bigger-market teams that are willing to spend X number of dollars more than we are. We look at a player in Latin America the same as we do here -- we try to put a price value on them."
"We had several player in Latin America that we had interest in before the July 2 deadline, but we might've had a price tag on them of X, and another club that's willing and wanted to spend a whole lot more money comes in and offers the same player X plus $2 million, and we honestly didn't think that at that point in time the investment was worth it."
"But I can assure you we're there, we're scouting, we're beginning to evaluate. We haven't made much of a splash yet as far as signing any of these guys, but I'm going to spend some time over there again this summer, and I would expect sometime here, at least by the end of the calendar year, that we'll probably sign a few guys in Latin America."
Other notes
*Laumann mentioned Gary Majewski when talking about Carter. The White Sox drafted him, trading him to the Dodgers, got him back when he flopped, and he ended up having a decent big-league career.
*The amount of players drafted from California was a coincidence, but Laumann did note that the terrible weather across most of the country did seem to work in their favor.
*Laumann says he feels "a little bit bad" for Jared Mitchell, because his momentum stopped after a fine first partial season in pro ball due to injury. He still has a lot of faith in him.
*Specifically, Laumann mentioned Texas A&M's Brandon Parent (30th round, left-handed pitcher) as somebody the Sox gave earlier-round money to later in the draft.
*Regarding the unsigned eighth and 10th round picks (Ian Gardeck and Benjamin O'Shea), "it doesn't feel like we're going to make a whole lot of progress with them." O'Shea is already going to Maryland.
*Dan Santaromita at Future Sox has his take of the call up, and also on the call was Paul Banks at The Sports Bank, Cheryl Norman at South Side Hit Girl, and Jenny Zelle at Gapers Block.
*And if that's not all, the White Sox also came to terms with third-round pick Jeff Soptic for $320,000 ($40,100 over slot), which prompted this tweet from Baseball America's Jim Callis:
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sox draft/farm
So they will take the best player available unless the best player available costs too much money. So any boras client.
And, we are “getting close” to having an organization that will utilize Latin America, oh those countries must have just started producing MLB talent last year or something.
PATHETIC
I do agree drafting pitchers and catchers in bulk is a good idea.
when your latin american personnel get indicted by the federal government for fraud
yeah, it’s going to take a bit to get back to where you thought you were (and were going) when you were being defrauded – not to mention that the players themselves were also being defrauded, which is just super for credibility with prospects.
by larry on Jul 15, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
no kiddin'.
That douche set us back a decade.
"You go up there, against a dog-ass line up AND pitcher, and you don’t do a fucking thing with it. They whip your silly, sorry, saggy ass AGAIN, and you look like fucking bottom-ass, bitch-ass chumps doing it." - 2HA
by Shoeless In SC on Jul 15, 2011 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Fraud
It set us back but we were already way back, until an international draft becomes mandatory in baseball its criminal for a semi big market club not to be pumping money into and turning out prospects from latin america.
Sox fail to realize that spending a little more on draft picks over slot and internatinal free agents can save you a TON of money when they come up and contribute to the big league club rather then having to fill out a roster via trades and free agent signings with guys who are already expensive. They should know this I mean alexei was a freaking steal for the money he was paid first 3 or 4 years in the league.
so you're essentially whining about their approach from nine years ago.
yes. it sucked. then they put in place what they thought was going to be a much improved operation. they started to spend a bit more money. then they found out they were being fucked by their own personnel and the money they were spending was actually being spent on horseshit players. which put them back to square one. probably further back than that.
i posted this a few days ago:
The median signing bonus of LatAm* prospects in today’s #FuturesGame is $83,750. Nine of the 16 from LatAm signed for less than six-figures
*These figures exclude Valle (signed through Mexico) and Cubans, per industry standard.
Kelvin Herrera, Gregory Infante, and Jose Altuve each signed for $15,000; Jurickson Profar received $1.55 million from Rangers
you don’t need to spend $4 million to be getting a return.
and i think the white sox realize that spending a little more on international free agents can save you a ton of money. their approach, however, has been to spend the money on players like ramirez and viciedo instead of 16 year old dominicans who are difficult to project. which is damn sensible at this point considering they have little to no infrastructure to even begin to properly evaluate those players.
Im whining?
Or stating facts, their system blows
A direct result of that is lack of interntional scouting which REMAINS a disaster until I see actual progress
And a lack of spending on the draft, didnt MLBTR just run an article saying the sox are 29th out of 30 teams in draft spending over the last decade,
So I dont want to hear WE TAKE THE BEST PLAYER which is absolute bullshit because Boras represents the best, and other guys that demand over slot are also the best,
Doug Laumann is talking out his ass, thats how I feel
i wasn't addressing any of those other points. waste of time to continue debating those things. we know they don't spend on the draft. they do, however, spend quite a bit internationally. they just do it differently than most teams.
and, at this point, for good reason. their reputation in the dominican is that they steal from the players they sign. it’s going to take time to overcome that. and since they had to completely rebuild (again) their latin american operations, it’s going to take time to build that up (again).
scouting in latin america, particularly the dominican, is not like scouting in the US. players aren’t on teams that play games. if you want to see a player, you ask their handler if you can watch a showcase. if that scout isn’t connected, you don’t get to see the player. if the handler thinks the team isn’t serious, you don’t get to see the player. and when you see the player, it’s in an obviously controlled environment. essentially, a scout gets to watch a player take batting practice and infield work or shag flyballs. and there isn’t the independent check of media or college coaches or being able to watch a player on TV like there is with US amateurs. the scout isn’t even allowed to take video in most cases. so you have to find scouts who can evaluate players with different information than other scouts do and you have to trust those scouts a lot more than your US scouts because you can’t just look at what keith law thinks or how the player is getting a full ride to florida to get a more independent view, or even take a look at the video the player yourself. and that’s where the white sox ran into trouble. they trusted guys – as they had to – who weren’t worth that trust. and it crushed them in latin america, particularly the dominican.
if you want to see actual progress, they were taking the right approach in 2007. if a team wants to show that they’re a big dick in the latin american market, you splash some cash on a player or players who may not necessarily be worth all the money. and that’s what the white sox started doing. they signed juan silverio for $600K or so, which was one of the biggest bonuses given out that year. everyone knew silverio wasn’t worth that much. the problem, of course, was that he really wasn’t worth anywhere near that much because the white sox scouts were inflating his abilities and pocketing most of the bonus themselves.
laumann identified the issue in the interview. they value players at x, but someone else is willing to pay x plus whatever. if i don’t have the infrastructure in place with experienced scouts so that i know whether my scouts are any good at evaluating players, i’m not going to be handing them large checks to give out, either. i’ll stick to handing out large checks to cubans, where i’ve had success.
by larry on Jul 15, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
your making great points
but to me this is still a multi hundred million dollar franchise and to be unable to maintain and police a reliable scouting department in latin america seems like a huge strike on Jerry, KW, Hahn, Laumann and everyone else involved. I hope they have made progress and if they havent your right they might as well keep using available dollars on players from cuba and japan
how do you police them?
you sign a 16 year old. maybe you realize he sucks after four years. maybe you begin to notice a pattern that all the players you sign suck.
i don’t know, maybe the white sox should have done a better job policing. you haven’t told me how that should have happened and i told you why it’s really fucking difficult to do so. frankly, i give them credit for figuring it out for themselves as soon as they did (early 2008). credit to rafael santana for being the whistleblower. i don’t know how else they figure it out so quick without someone on the inside doing that.
policing aspect
refers to hiring people who turned out to be corrupt and not realizing it until rafael santana came forward
it has nothing to do with our scouts being bad at determining 16 year old talent thats a different problem
your model organizations the red sox and yankees, not to mention the nationals, had to have other people tell them what their corrupt scouts were doing.
who knows what other teams managed to keep things out of the public eye. but then it’s real easy to police things as a multi hundred million dollar franchise. the corruption in the dominican runs so deep i’d be surprised if anyone is totally clean. mlb didn’t send in alderson to clean things up just for shits and giggles.
by Jake1102 on Jul 15, 2011 9:41 AM CDT reply actions
by Jake1102 on Jul 15, 2011 9:43 AM CDT reply actions
See #9:
This explains so many things about the management of Pods and Pierre.
by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Jul 15, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
This was great, Jim et al.
I liked how blunt and open he is.
"You go up there, against a dog-ass line up AND pitcher, and you don’t do a fucking thing with it. They whip your silly, sorry, saggy ass AGAIN, and you look like fucking bottom-ass, bitch-ass chumps doing it." - 2HA
not that you need to be told again
Chicago White Sox
The Problem: Left field. Juan Pierre has been hitting of late, but all that means is that his season average is up to a whopping .269/.330/.314. He also has the sudden and mysterious defensive problems that have changed him from a decent little left fielder with a horrible arm to a bad left fielder with a horrible arm.
The Solution: Dayan Viciedo. The 22-year-old Cuban is having a breakout year at Triple-A Charlotte, hitting .325/.374/.535 in 87 games. Possessing some of the best bat speed in the minors, he has the ability to hit for both average and power, and he’s made tremendous strides in his approach. Trust me, his 25 walks over 342 at-bats might not look like much, but it actually represents a massive step forward. He’s not better defensively than Pierre; at 5-foot-11 and 230 pounds he’s more of a round mound of bat pound (sorry, Charles Barkley), but he could add much-needed life to a White Sox lineup that currently scares opponents with just two players—Paul Konerko and Carlos Quentin.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=14530
This start of the 2nd half
is the most depressed I have felt in quite some time about the White Sox. At least in 2007 I knew they sucked. I am beaten down. The Viciedo handling has made me question every benefit of doubt I want to give to this organization. The Dayan plug-in won’t fix everything. I hate the fact they’ve made me FEEL it is everything.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
You're considered the "optimist" here, right?
If we’ve lost Tdogg, we’ve lost Middle America
I shant be misled a second time
by Nordhagen on Jul 15, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Isn't it depressing when sports writers, commentators and even the fans are smarter than your team's GM and manager
"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10
Let the Appendixless and Toe Boat attack begin!
White Sox 2011: The season of extraneous body parts.
by greenlight on Jul 15, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
i lol'd
Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

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