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Bullpen providing ballast for struggling Sox

"You! Come get some!"

At this point, the 2011 season feels like a reprisal of 2009 (an inability to sustain momentum). There's still plenty of time for it to turn into a 2010 (big surge, slow fade), or maybe a 2008 (graceless battle of attrition).

I think we can safely say it won't be another 2007. That's not to say the season could collapse into itself, but if it does, we can reserve 2011 for its own type of drudgery.

To me, when I think of 2007, my mind first turns to the bullpen. I liked the plan -- collect a bunch of high-octane arms with some big-league success and pair them with a stable back end of Matt Thornton and Bobby Jenks, then watch the strikeouts pile up. It worked for a month, and then it didn't.

That vision never came to fruition, which was an inherent risk everybody should've been prepared for. The Completely Ineffective Reliever Pageant that followed ... well, "Rocky" would've been played throughout the season had it come along four years earlier:

So I leaned back to hit him with all of my might
Took a swing -- but he caught me with a sucker-punch right!
Then a sucker-punch left and a sucker-punch right!
Then 22 consecutive sucker-punch rights!

We were battered by sucker-punch lefts (Andy Sisco, Boone Logan, Mike Myers) and sucker-punch rights (Nick Masset, Charlie Haeger, self-identified right-hander Ryan Bukvich). The Sox tried 16 relievers, and the most they got out of it was a number of good half-innings from Ehren Wassermann. A lot of careers died that year. Wassermann's died a year later.

This year's bullpen has been blessed by an inordinate amount of good fortune. It's possible that it could evaporate in due time, but at least fortune has smiled upon Don Cooper and Juan Nieves this season for a couple months. In 2007, she never gave them a second look.

Star-divide

Hector Santiago is the latest of the success stories, and therein lies the difference between the two seasons.

Back in 2007, the Sox turned to an under-the-radar reliever in Birmingham named Dewon Day. Nobody expected him to be any kind of savior, but he did strike out 48 batters in 25 innings as a Baron (not a typo), so I figured we'd have flashes of brilliance to sustain him through maddening inconsistency.

Nope. He gave up two runs on four hits in his first inning of work, setting him on a course to get hammered more often than not. My favorite performance of his was on July 12 against Baltimore, when he entered the ninth inning with the bases clear and a seven run lead. In the span of six pitches, he gave up four hits, and all the runners ended up crossing the plate. His ERA ballooned from 6.75 to 10.61, and he'd never get it out of double-digits again. That kind of unwatchable collapse lurked around ever corner with every reliever that year.

Now we have Santiago, who wasn't on anybody's major-league radar for 2011. He comes up from Birmingham, makes his debut on Wednesday, and pitches an uneventful 1-2-3 inning (OK).

Sure, that was against the Royals. But one day later, he's called upon to face the Minnesota Twins, who spent the first four innings shooting at Phil Humber's feet and yelling, "Dance!" He enters with runners on the corners, two outs, and future Hall of Famer Jim Thome at the plate. He gets Thome to tap out to short (good).

An eight-pitch inning followed (neat), backed by another 1-2-3 inning (really?), and another scoreless frame in which he had to pitch around a couple baserunners -- including his introduction to unnecessary intentional walks (phew).

This should have been enough, considering he'd thrown 3 1/3 scoreless innings and 40 pitches in his second straight day of work. But then he comes out and retires the Twins in order in the eighth (wow) on 10 pitches for good measure. That leaves just one inning of work for Brian Bruney. Getting fewer than four innings out of Humber in the opener of a four-game series could have had grave consequences, but Santiago saved the rest of the bullpen with a relaxing 4 1/3 innings.

This didn't happen in 2007, and it's not just Santiago. Before Santiago, we watched Jeff Gray overachieve to the point that his loss was bemoaned by some. Bruney picked up where Gray left off with effectively sloppy innings. Will Ohman reminds me of 2005 Luis Vizcaino - a guy who made such a terrible first impression (also against Cleveland) that it took months before people realized he really had been serving his purpose.

Sergio Santos has exceeded expectations in a high-leverage role, Jesse Crain is on track to reward the Sox for their sizable investment in him, and Matt Thornton and Chris Sale have persevered through their rocky starts. Phenoms, veterans, journeyman, prospects -- everybody is clicking, which isn't supposed to happen.

(Speaking of Crain, the scrubs have helped give him a breather. He's only thrown two innings this month.)

It's just a shame the offense isn't putting it to better use. In terms of customer satisfaction, these two units couldn't stand in starker contrast at this moment. Shouldn't that be impossible, based broadcast booth bromides? The next time Hawk Harrelson says, "Your offense is only as good as your bullpen," I'm writing my congressman.

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but he did strike out 48 relievers in 25 innings

I know what you meant, but when they open the time capsule in 50 years…

Santiago!

Win It For WU!

by Chiburb on Jul 8, 2011 8:04 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I thought that was weird too

But it DOES say, “not a typo,” so if Jim says he struck out 48 relievers, then I believe it.

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Jul 8, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Technically, there still was no typo.

There was a brain fart.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Jul 8, 2011 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

hawk is losing his mind.

he should be suspended for his broadcast last night. just because the sox are unwatchable doesn’t mean he has to be unlistenable. the only performance that was worse was manny gonzalez. he was incompetent and needs to be sent back to the minors.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Jul 8, 2011 8:30 AM CDT reply actions  

i was at a bar and only caught about 68-72 percent of the broadcast

but he was morose almost from the beginning of the game. towards the end of the game i heard him complaining a lot about home plate umpire manny gonzalez who admittedly i thought was pretty terrible.

i know i am prone to hyperbolic statements but i really thought last night hawk crossed into (in 2ha vernacular) unacceptable territory. it’s one thing to go into a funk for a bit or to make occasional bitter recriminations about the umpiring but i really think hawk may be headed to a point where he will need to be stopped.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Jul 8, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's no secret i'm not a fan of quite a lot of umpiring performances

but i stop short of blaming the result of the game on them. if there is anyone who was listening more closely than me that could confirm that that is essentially what hawk was doing towards the end of the game, because that’s what i thought i was hearing.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Jul 8, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

he qualified himself

he (and stone) made a point of saying that gonzalez wasn’t responsible for the flat sox.

he hasn’t complained that much about strike zones this year, last night, as you said, gonzalez was pretty frustrating.

by tommyjoepeters on Jul 8, 2011 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are you estimating it as 70% +/- 2?

Or do you know for sure it was in that range?

by 25or6to4 on Jul 8, 2011 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't do with him atm - although I like Stone

I always put the opponents commentary on

I remember Winningugly and Hoodlight always being the good guys.

by hoodlight on Jul 8, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bullpen providing ballast for struggling Sox

Jim – Did you ever play baseball? I just read your article today and you remind me of the mouthpieces in the media who make a living taking others down. After a quick search online, I didn’t see where you have ever had any kind of major league career. Or minor league career. Or any professional sports career. At all. Ever. Last time I looked, Boone Logan was still playing for the Yankees. The YANKEES. (A team I loathe, but nevertheless, the winningest team ever in baseball.) The closest you’ll ever get to that is writing trash about him. Ryan Bukvich did a very credible job in 2007, as I recall. Mike Myers had an ok year and eventually left to play for the Yankees. Right after the White Sox. As for Ehren Wassermann, he worked his way up from a try-out and the very bottom of the White Sox organization to the show, but you wouldn’t know anything about that having never stood on a Major League pitcher’s mound and faced a Major League hitter in your life. He’s still playing professional baseball in an independent league and pitching the best he’s ever pitched in his life. All these guys have guts, heart and the courage to keep living their dreams, wherever that might be. Just because you are from a small town in Illinois doesn’t mean you have to act so small. Any creep can criticize, especially about stuff that happened 4 years ago. Try writing something with some heart and soul, like maybe about how these guys actually got there and what keeps them going, despite the incredible pressure relievers face. They have the toughest job in baseball, are easily the most expendible, have to be brilliant every time they go in to clean up whatever fresh hell awaits, and live in constant pain pretty much for the rest of their lives. I wonder how you would fare if you knew that your job was on the line every single time you wrote a piece. I don’t think you know much about the love of the game at all.

by MollyMeanGirl on Jul 8, 2011 9:05 AM CDT reply actions  

You can make that argument about anything.

Ex – Lance Armstrong gets cancer, Lance Armstrong wins Tour. Heartwarming story of triumph over adversity, with bicycles.

by ccrunner59 on Jul 8, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

ha!

I remember Winningugly and Hoodlight always being the good guys.

by hoodlight on Jul 8, 2011 11:50 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

this is a hell of a first post.

"A lot of misinformation," the source said.

by e-gus on Jul 8, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mike Myers played for the Yankees before the White Sox

Not surprisingly, his 17 earned runs in 13.2 innings with the White Sox marked the end of his career as a major league pitcher.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jul 8, 2011 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

"in an independent league and pitching the best he’s ever pitched in his life."

i think i found another entry for your RRRR, rhubarb.

I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.

by thatshortkid on Jul 8, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

i could be wrong, but i think bob costas just got raging wood.

I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.

by thatshortkid on Jul 8, 2011 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Making it to the Majors is great but it does not make them good Major Leaguers.

The 2007 bullpen was sort of a soul crushing one too, of course that’s just a fan’s perspective.

by keystone connection on Jul 8, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure there were people like Mean Molly to support the guy who ran on the field

and beat up the coach from the Royals. I mean, the guy was selfless, stopping a game the Sox could have lost, got his ass kicked by the other team, and labeled himself for life as a loser asshole, just so we could have something to talk about!

Where is that selfless man today? Why not tell his sad story of abuse in the shadows?

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jul 8, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did you get lost on the way to Scott Merkin's blog?

This is a place for serious baseball analysis, not White Sox puffery.

by moroots on Jul 8, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Go green please

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Jul 8, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Holy balls.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Jul 8, 2011 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

50,000 people is a small town?

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Jul 8, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

"If you are looking for a good and quick treat, mosey on over to Hardees or KFC." -Jessy S

by Uribe Down on Jul 9, 2011 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

korean had a sex change.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jul 8, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

reading other comments, waste of time, yada yada yada.

"I have no patience for the homeless. Get your old, stinky ass out!" - Terry Boers

by RWShow on Jul 8, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

i think he'd rather do that about good baseball players

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jul 8, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

her first comment on this site is amusing
You ain’t nevah lied!
They would “lose Masset”? An oxymoron. This was a no-brainer and it’s pretty clear where the brains are. Turkey, anyone?

by MollyMeanGirl on Mar 30, 2008 7:05 AM PDT actions

because it calls for dumping Nick Masset, a hard working american boy with baseball dreams, from the bullpen.

I'd just as soon never hear another word from that fluttering asswheel. - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Jul 8, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Which reliever are you close to/dating/married?

You have to personally know someone to spend the time to register for this site and post something like that. Maybe Masset?

by 815Sox on Jul 8, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Its pretty obvious Molly got plowed by the 2007 White Sox bullpen.

She told them all they were very big and the best she has ever had.

where the white women at?

by parkernutws05 on Jul 8, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

“he did strike out 48 relievers in 25 innings as a Baron (not a typo)”

Why the hell were so many relievers at bat down there???

"I have no patience for the homeless. Get your old, stinky ass out!" - Terry Boers

by RWShow on Jul 8, 2011 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

FYI, "(not a typo)" is about to become my favorite meme. Sit back, relax, and strap it on. (not a typo)

"I have no patience for the homeless. Get your old, stinky ass out!" - Terry Boers

by RWShow on Jul 8, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

To continue on the nautical theme,

if the bilge pumps that are our bullpen and starting pitcher begin to fail, then we’re Archimedes screwed.

White Sox 2011: The season of extraneous body parts.

by greenlight on Jul 8, 2011 9:14 AM CDT reply actions  

PITCHING

This is the type of staff starters and bullpen that should allow a team to coast to 90+ wins and be a major player in the playoffs, instead an excellent effort is going to go to absolute waste because of this bullflop offense.

by Knoxfire30 on Jul 8, 2011 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

I refer to it as "offensive buffoonery"

White Sox 2011: The season of extraneous body parts.

by greenlight on Jul 8, 2011 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly. How the fuck does this make sense?

Making a deal with the Braves would make some sense for the White Sox. Dayan Viciedo is ready and waiting at Triple-A Charlotte, hitting his 16th home run on Thursday night and raising his RBI total to 62. The White Sox could potentially move a piece such as right fielder Carlos Quentin, who becomes a free agent after the 2012 season and would give the pitching-rich Braves a boost on offense, and the White Sox could get young, Major League-ready pitching in return.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

The six-man rotation worked well

The seven-man rotation will work… weller.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Jul 8, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

it makes sense if we are resigned to not win the division.

the way we are currently playing, that seems to be the case. If it is the case, get some pieces for Q, Buehrle, Jackson, Pierre etc…its all good by me.

by Rhubarb on Jul 8, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Trade possibilities

Beachy for Quentin makes a lot of sense to me, its the opposite contract effect of hudson for jackson, and with viciedo ready to roll I dont think we lose much of anything offensively. With Beachy in the fold you can then move edwin jackson for a prospect of some sorts, you basically exchange 11 years of service time for 3 years… and gain some financial flexibilty while basically fielding just as competitive of a team.

by Knoxfire30 on Jul 8, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

You don't need Beachy.

You need Quentin AND Viciedo. The goal is not to field a competitive team its to make the playoffs.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

This.

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Jul 8, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

beachy

will be very much needed when jackson and mb could depart next year and who the heck is going to rely on peavy to stay healthy and or humber not to be a fluke….

I would like to have viciedo and quentin in the lineup together but what in ozzie’s world makes you think juan pierre wont play 98% of the remaining games?

by Knoxfire30 on Jul 8, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

His own words?

Even Pierre is playing what makes you think Viciedo won’t take abs away from Dunn too? You need more offense not less.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's kenny's world. ozzie just makes the lineups in it.

there is one possibility for Q! and hot fire to be in the same lineup and for JP to play 98% of the remaining games this MLB season….

I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.

by thatshortkid on Jul 8, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

yep.

put quentin in center field.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Jul 8, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

true. don't want to take away ABs from teahen.

I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.

by thatshortkid on Jul 8, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

teahen is my pick to click!

he better be in the lineup tonight!

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Jul 8, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

weird, lucky, good call on that by the way

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jul 8, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

beachy isn't exactly a portrait of health.

and he’s kind of rotation filler. maybe a #3 or #4.

by larry on Jul 8, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah i think i would rather take Minor or Kimbrel from the Braves instead of Beachy

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Jul 8, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

You think they'd give up Kimbrel?

He is a stud. He gives my erection a boner he’s so good

by joewho112 on Jul 8, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have no clue, but probably not unless we threw some money into the deal.

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Jul 8, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

beachy

he is 24 i believe, and strikes a ton of guys out… whats wrong with adding a 3 or 4 that has 4 or 5 years before free agency, jackson is a 4 making 10 mil a year and is about to be a free agent

by Knoxfire30 on Jul 8, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

if the trade was beachy straight up for jackson, things would be different

that isn’t the rumored trade though.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Jul 8, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

i was using jackson as an example

i understand its quentin for beachy, the corresponding move would be jackson for a prospect then,

that free up a lot of money, allows viciedo to come up immediately, and puts the sox in a much better position for 2012 and beyond while allowing them to still compete in 2011

by Knoxfire30 on Jul 8, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

jackson is the result of the last attempt at making this kind of trade situation work

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Jul 8, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

no

this is the exact opposite of that trade

by Knoxfire30 on Jul 8, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

when your giving up

an inconsistent injury prone player with 1 year until free agency for a #3or#4 under control for a long time i think its a great idea

you plug viciedo in for quentin which utilizes your organizational depth and you eliminate a huge question mark for the 2012 rotation and further

the starting staff look great right now in 2011, but in 2012 think about how different it could be, mb could hang it up, jackson wont be re-signed, peavy is always a throw away from being done and who believes wholeheartidly humber has figured it out? Thats a lot of holes to possibly fill around Danks and Floyd, hopefully Sale moves into the rotation to fill another spot but you get the idea that another starting arm would be a good thing to grab now.

by Knoxfire30 on Jul 8, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe in Humber

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Jul 8, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

for humber to have gone this long and have only one bad outing

(in which nearly every hit off him was a single) i believe he has figured it out. its not like hes pitched only against the lowest of the low teams.

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jul 8, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

he might be higher than a #3

the season he is putting together is pretty damn good.

Andy Sisco has spent the last four years in a hospital bed with liquid fire shooting through his veins and small-town malcontent Jim Margalus has nothing to offer him but scorn. ~ big_fun

by e-gus on Jul 8, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is?

Its 61 innings and its in the NL.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, hes only 24 years old.

check this link out.
it looks like colin already read it.

Andy Sisco has spent the last four years in a hospital bed with liquid fire shooting through his veins and small-town malcontent Jim Margalus has nothing to offer him but scorn. ~ big_fun

by e-gus on Jul 8, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't mean to imply he's not a good pitcher

and his age is appealing. But it not like he’s a Verlander and I honestly don’t understand why the Sox would be entertaining this thought.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

larry I got no disagreement with you on Beachy's health.

But how can you possibly project a guy like Beachy?

He’s a Rookie who went undrafted yet continues to pile up K’s and look un-hittable at times.

He could be a future #1, he could be a future #5.

by PeejSox on Jul 8, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then you know what we do?

After the season, we walk up to Turner field, kick in the door, and bitch slap their GM – I think his name is Wren. When Beachy tries to pull the covers up to hide his nudity, you pull him out of bed by the hair, and tell him to go wait in the car for you.

You’re such a badass, Beachy doesn’t even think to drive off. Kick Wren on the nuts on the way out, and you got yourself a new starter.

Next.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jul 8, 2011 9:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

he didn't hit the ball out of the infield a single time yesterday!!

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Jul 8, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree with all this if not for the fact we would like to compete this year.

If we are 10+ out on July 31st, I’m cool with whatever KW wants to do in terms of trades.

by Rhubarb on Jul 8, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

lateral moves that are great for the future

how does beachy in the rotation instead of jackson and viciedo in right as oppose to quentin take us out of competition this year, i think we may be actually better for the rest of 2011 with those moves, let alone infinitely better 2012 and further…

by Knoxfire30 on Jul 8, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Putting Jackson and Quentin in right would make for a very interesting defensive allignment.

Reporter: I was wondering if at any point in my lifetime the Cubs weren't going to be run by a guy who didn't immediately remind me of failure, confusion, or imminent death

by Hazymania on Jul 8, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

That kind of slows down his fastball by the time it reaches the plate.

At that point, it’s more of a “roll-ball”.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Jul 8, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed. We still have a shot at this if the team will start hitting. If we are done by the end of the month, blow the team up and rebuild it.

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Jul 8, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Merk tidbits. I really freaking hate the twins.....

• The White Sox are 6-27 in their last 33 games against the Twins.

• White Sox relievers have a 0.99 ERA in their last 20 games, covering 63 2/3 innings.

• Juan Pierre is hitting .395 in his last 11 games.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 10:36 AM CDT reply actions  

GDFS

all above refer to the swear words I uttered when tuning in after my softball game last night to see a 6-0 Twin killing of ’Da Sox.

MLB.com last 30 days stats for Sox.

F’ing depressing.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Jul 8, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just to let everyone know

I am pretty sure that Steve Stone is going to be one with Dan Bernstein today for the Who Needs Tour Tavern tour. I want to say only for the first 3 1/2 hours

by 815Sox on Jul 8, 2011 10:37 AM CDT reply actions  

ive been cloaked!!!

"I wonder if converting Peavy to a closer role would be best? Help keep him healthy and help solidify the pen a bit." - Bent Over Beckham

by BoeJouma on Jul 8, 2011 10:40 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

About damn time!

"I have no patience for the homeless. Get your old, stinky ass out!" - Terry Boers

by RWShow on Jul 8, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

How to make the Sox more watchable --

More fights ala Slapshot. Let Dunn become Reggie Dunlop and trade for the Hanson Brothers. Question every call with their fists, beat up umpires and opposing coaches. Beat Southpaw to death with stale churros.

by RoyEgan on Jul 8, 2011 10:52 AM CDT reply actions  

He may have been part of the 2007 bullpen parade of suck, but I will always love the Bukvich/Rongey exchange

Rongey: So, for all those who might not be familiar with you, what type of pitcher are you?

Bukvich: (pause) Uh, right handed.

by Yinka Double Dare on Jul 8, 2011 1:00 PM CDT reply actions  

i can't believe he's gone.

Houston claims White Sox’s pitcher Harrell

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Jul 8, 2011 1:46 PM CDT reply actions  

So this is the third RP claimed by another team, right?

Grey, Marquez, now Harrell. None of them are great shakes, but it does mean a RP injury could hurt a lot.

by joewho112 on Jul 8, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

There is always Jackson, Humber and Floyd

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

A real season highlight

Thanks, Jim, for examining what is playing out as a real positive.

Your layout suggests to me that kw (and rh and whoever else, cooper/nieves) have improved the bullpen approach to cast one that is much easier on the nerves, even enjoyable to watch.

by tommyjoepeters on Jul 8, 2011 2:25 PM CDT reply actions  

My exchange with Rongey:
@ChrisRongey Rios and Dunn have way higher upside. Getting rid of JP is easiest answer to creating spot for Viciedo. JP = Sunk Cost
@ChrisRongey I disagree. You are making it too complicated when it comes to the Viciedo vs Pierre issue. Viciedo hit a 3 run HR tonight.
@ChrisRongey JP is hitting singles. Viciedo would be very likely be a much larger contributor. The V vs JP is a separate issue in:re 2 D & R
@815Sox I’m not making it complicated at all. Pierre is currently contributing and replacing him with DV doesn’t solve the Dunn-Rios problem
@815Sox Don’t care if he’s hitting singles, he’s still hitting. Replacing him still leaves 2 lineup holes. He’s not the one hurting them

by 815Sox on Jul 8, 2011 3:10 PM CDT reply actions  

.
@ChrisRongey And if JP is preventing DV from a the majors than yes he is hurting the Sox. JP = one of worst in MLB. No upside anymore. DV>JP

by 815Sox on Jul 8, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well at this point he's right

You’ll have a hard time convincing people Pierre is a bigger problem than Dunn and Rios. Especially Rios. He’s been awful for a year now.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

the Dunn and Rio's situation is seperate

Its obvious they are not hitting. You have an option sitting in AAA that will very likely address the issue of lack of runs and JP is preventing him from coming up (well at least according to Ozzie). I’m not arguing that Dunn and Rios are not a bigger problem

I don’t care who it is but JP is the easiest candidate to let go to create a spot (or Vizquel)

by 815Sox on Jul 8, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

He might be the best

but I doubt he’s the easiest.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

not really.

rios and dunn likely not tradeable. pierre likely is. contracts are a huge factor here. even considering the leadoff position thing, dunn and rios are nonstarters.

by larry on Jul 8, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

not comparing Dunn or Rios

they aren’t even in the discussion to get rid of. I’m talking about Ozzie’s quest to keep him and the other minor options available.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

What?
ChrisRongey Chris Rongey
@815Sox Not enough to make a difference. If he’s replacing Dunn or Rios, that might be have an impact.
ChrisRongey Chris Rongey
@815Sox Absolutely not a red herring. It IS the problem. Pierre isn’t the one failing in big moments either

by 815Sox on Jul 8, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course its fool's gold.

You don’t have to convince me. I want Dayan in left and Quentin in right.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jul 8, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

me too

"We saw death and I don't think we fear it anymore. Not unlike 2005, when we finally clinched and then we took off in the playoffs." Coop 7/29/10

by Ahillock on Jul 8, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

my point is

You improve the team anyway possible. Dayan over Pierre does this, and will actually help out the Dunn and Rios situation. Runs need to be driven in at this point, even if it hurts someones feelings.

by 815Sox on Jul 8, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

x

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Jul 8, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

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