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Omar Vizquel's free pass to your 2011 White Sox

Yes, I do feel badly about ripping on Omar Vizquel.

Who has been the worst White Sox position player this year? I'm sure I'll hear many different answers to this, as there are many that can be blamed for sinking the 2011 White Sox.  Adam Dunn would be a popular choice - and that offensive offensive line from a designated hitter is good support.  Certainly Alex Rios, contributing one of the worst performances by an outfielder ever (and recently from the clean-up spot), would get votes.  Mark Teahen is in the mix.  Brent Morel has his vocal critics.  And for those who want to get cute, Dallas McPherson and Donny Lucy could be cited.

The title of the post gives away another possibility.  I'm not so much interested in resolving the question as wondering why Omar Vizquel gets a pass from the media, fans and management.  I already had this post started when a few of us got into a discussion over Twitter regarding how the White Sox should have gotten Dayan Viciedo on the roster, say, back in June when we really started banging the drum for him.  I, as I have before, raised the option of dumping Vizquel.  Of course, that was met with a "then who is your utility infielder" - which, of course, presupposes that Vizquel is an adequate utility infielder.  A response to that was "Vizquel is competent."

(You can read the entire 45-minute Twitter discussion here.)

Yes, I understand that Vizquel is seen as one of the many untouchables on the roster so the White Sox would not actually have dumped him (just like they never would have benched Dunn or Rios and, thus, could not have called up Viciedo in any event because then he wouldn't be playing everyday as Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen both agreed he had to).  But let's suspend for a moment this illogical reality we live in as White Sox fans.  What did Vizquel actually bring to the team?

Star-divide

The answer, at least on the field, is nothing.  I know Vizquel is a really nice guy.  I'm sure he's awesome in the locker room.  I don't doubt that he offers solid mentoring to the young players.  He definitely has the intangibles.  However, coaches can be in the locker room.  And they can also mentor.  Using an active roster spot on an intangibles player is a luxury for a team.  And, at some point, a sub-.500 team should realize they can't afford luxuries that don't clearly show up in the box score.  Those teams need production.

And Vizquel is simply not productive.  Pick your poison.  His triple slash is .252/.285/.303.  His OPS+ is 60.  His wOBA is .257.  So the offense is Rios-bad.  As for his defense, his FRAA is -3.2.  And if you don't trust defensive statistics, focus your eyes.  He gets a pass from some because he makes plays look pretty.  Of course, the only plays he can actually make look pretty are those approximately five feet to either side of him.  That's his "competence." He simply cannot play shortstop anymore. He is a huge liability at third.  He's a slightly less huge liability at second.

I'm sure there are a few readers out there thinking, "Vizquel is a bench player, he isn't supposed to be that good."  And that's the very point.  Bench players are generally expendable, dumpable, swappable when the need arises.  And the White Sox needed offense.  A swap for Viciedo would have helped the team.  Who cares that for 72 of the 1178 innings at shortstop that Alexei Ramirez has not played the White Sox would not have a "recognized" shortstop.  Take the name off the back and you couldn't recognize Vizquel as a shortstop, either.  Gordon Beckham, Brent Morel or Brent Lillibridge all could suck at shortstop as much as him and actually are quite likely to all be better.

Now, back to White Sox reality.  As Jim pointedly summed up: "Somehow, every piece of a sub-.500 team was elevated to a necessity."  Chris Rongey said "personalities do have to be managed."  Basically, you had management wearing blinders, refusing to change their preconceived notions of the players and their roles for the season, and you had entitled players refusing to give up those roles - all in the midst of some of the worst individual baseball performances in history.  That's how obstinance sunk the 2011 White Sox.  And Omar Vizquel, miscast in the role of Competent Utility Infielder, was a small part of it.

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Yep

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 28, 2011 8:42 AM CDT reply actions  

well said

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mentor mentality

If management felt it was so important for our infielders to have a mentor wouldn’t make more sense to hire Omar has a coach? Hold it. Isn’t that Cora’s job?
I really like De Aza batting second and it drive me crazy when Ozzie bats Omar in the 2 spot.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by phastphil on Aug 28, 2011 9:33 AM CDT reply actions  

I know his official position is "Bench Coach"

but I guess because he holds his “winter camp” for infielders I assumed he was the defacto infield coach – silly me.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by phastphil on Aug 28, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's not like he couldn't be both

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

more of a reply to Tastee, below, than you.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who's saying that Omar hasn't been an influence on

Beckham, Morel and Alexei?

We have a pretty good defensive infield right now. Could be that’s all they wanted out of Omar.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, we've settled that then.

It’s a precept of management that you cannot manage or “coach” someone and be their mentor at the same time. They are 2 separate jobs. One’s coach is in a position of authority, and has certain responsibilities. A mentor is more of an equal with much more experience, kind of like a HOF infielder, who can teach through empathy, as they’re at the same level, thus getting more trust from the player – who isn’t afraid to open up to the mentor, as it might mean getting cut.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

i don't thinks that's right.

a coach just isn’t necessarily a mentor. and vice versa. things rarely are painted in black and white terms.

by larry on Aug 28, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have spent entire days cooped up in Holiday Inn meeting rooms at management seminars

and one thing that gets reiterated over and over, is that you cannot do both at the same time. A manager may wish to mentor an employee (or player), but then he has to step out of his role as manager, mentoring does cut into one’s credibility as a figure of authority.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

again, i don't think that's necessarily true.

jim thome will tell you that charlie manuel was/is his mentor. yes, jim is a unique individual (charlie is, too, i suppose) and their relationship is certainly unique. but a coach can be both. it just depends upon the people involved.

by larry on Aug 28, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think a coach can be both too.

and we’re talking about the bench coach and a player. Not the team’s manager and a player.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think we're thinking about what we want the word "mentor" to mean

and not what it really means.

You can’t “mentor” and “manage” at the same time.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

As a roving minor league outfield instructor?

You mean of his checking account, or something? What is your question?

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

you said a coach cannot be a mentor because one can't manage and mentor at the same time.

what managing does daryl boston do. or omer munoz. they’re about what vizquel could be.

by larry on Aug 28, 2011 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your honor, larry's badgering the witness

When I mention “manager” or “coach”, I refer to a person in a position of authority on the team that will give direction that is expected to be followed.

When you are the person who could fire somebody, or directly represents the person who could fire somebody, you cannot, at the same time, reasonably “mentor” that person, as that constitutes a suspension of authority to gain the employee’s trust.

Ozzie Guillen, as the manager, cannot mentor infielders. Joey Cora does bench coaching, as you so elloquently pointed out earlier, and as the right hand man to the manager would not have any credibility as an empathetic mentor.

If you’re saying that Vizquel could be a roving instructor, then maybe he can be.

However, a roving instructor wouldn’t travel with the major league team, and help the starting infielders hone their game, would he?

Pulling this right out of my heinie, I would imagine that Boston watches a couple of games, meets with the outfielders and works on their approach, reviews their game, breaks down the weak points of their defensive game, gives instruction for improvement, and reports progress back to the big guys.

I’m going to guess that by the time somebody is starting in the majors most of the season, in an environment that is very cut-throat and competitive, a guy who has no designs on your job may get you to admit your weaknesses to yourself, and give you tips on how to accomodate those weaknesses for different situations, cheating one way or the other to make up for a slow break, weak arm, bad read or whatever.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've defined managing and mentoring

and explained the difference between the two. You seem to be getting stuck on some inner-definition you have of the word, and won’t get beyond it.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 29, 2011 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

It’s a precept of management that you cannot manage or "coach" someone and be their mentor at the same time.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Get a room you too

The sexual tension between the two of you is at levels unseen since Moonlighting went off the air

by joewho112 on Aug 29, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Did they really need that from Omar anymore?

Alexei’s 29, and himself in a position to be mentoring Dayan. He was also coming off a year where he was the best SS in the AL. Beckham, coming into this year, had been around the block a couple of times, and was probably in a position himself to show Morel what putting in work on the defensive side looks like.

I think Omar had some utility as a mentor last year, and I didn’t have a problem with how he did as a part-time player. But the lessons have clearly been learned, while the one skill he ever really had- fielding, is basically gone because he has no range left.

by Titan52 on Aug 28, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I remember larry making a very prescient point during spring training

that the 25th guy isn’t all that important, because he’s not going to bat 500 times, and won’t be entirely consequential. You can’t have 9 WAR guys throughout the lineup, bench, and at AAA waiting for opportunities.

Are you upset we didn’t nail down Willie Bloomquist? Is there a 9 WAR utility man we let walk out of sheer hubris?

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

The 25th man shouldn't be an important piece of the puzzle

because the 25th man is supposed to a fungible type of guy that management is willing to ditch and move around if need be. The problem is WS management refused to “disrespect” any of its players by sending them down, except for Milledge, but that was more because of redundancy and Ozzie’s belief he needed a pitcher.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't get why the White Sox didn't bring up Viciedo at a point where they

thought he would clear super 2 status.

But once they resigned Vizquel, he was on this team until they played the last game of the season, or they traded him to the Indians or Tigers to get his ring.

The White Sox have weathered so much “Reinsdorf’s mean” PR flak, that they will never cut a veteran like him again.

So we can all act surprised when they won’t cut Vizquel on the road in Anaheim, and make him buy his own plane ticket home from John Wayne International, but it ain’t going to happen.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

As for what Omar bring..

Nothing. He is too old and just doesn’t have it anymore. If Alexei needed his presence so much, that keep him on as a staff member or something. That way you can still have his godlike veteran presence without wasting a spot.

by 815Sox on Aug 28, 2011 9:44 AM CDT reply actions  

Uh, actually...

Wikipedia speaks:

MLB rule 3.171 specifies that “no one except players, substitutes, managers, coaches, trainers and batboys shall occupy a bench during a game.” The rule also stipulates that players on the disabled list are allowed in the dugout, but may not enter the field of play at any time during the game. Players and coaches who have been ejected from the game may not remain in the dugout per Rule 4.07.

So, I suppose that if the White Sox decided that they had 42,000 trainers for today’s game, everybody in the ballpark could come down and sit on the bench, right?

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe

Ozzie could wear a suit ala Connie Mack. Just imagine!

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by phastphil on Aug 28, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd rather have Omar in a suit

The man has a unique style and he owns it. Watching him play baseball isn’t a joy anymore, so we might as well enjoy how he dresses.

by Titan52 on Aug 28, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Omar was a great late inning pinch runner for Paulie

He always made it harder to win in extras

Where the white women at?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M

by parkernutws05 on Aug 28, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe make Vizquel and assistant to the sports pysch they hired

Get Omar a small office with soothing colors (stick a Sox logo somewhere), a mini fridge with beer and a comfy couch

by 815Sox on Aug 28, 2011 9:57 AM CDT reply actions  

It's a little reminiscent of the Bulls with Adrian Griffin or Lindsay Hunter or Brian Scalabrine:

completely drained vets who could played a coach’s role (and in the Bulls’ case, management front/spy) and still had roster spots. Only difference was that with the NBA’s active player limit per night it was rare these guys ever played. And when they did, it was gross. I don’t know if it’s a Reinsdorf mandate that he have eyes on the bench or if these are separate Paxdorf/Guillen machinations. But it is odd for both teams to go through the same sort of roster-clog for the sake of clubhouse guys.

by Sox-35th on Aug 28, 2011 10:11 AM CDT reply actions  

this. yesterday was great.

I know Rongey has a tough job, but Stone even takes the Sox to task more on air them Rongey ever does.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Aug 28, 2011 1:58 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

i like this.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Aug 28, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

har har

I remember Winningugly and Hoodlight always being the good guys.

by hoodlight on Aug 28, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm grateful to Rongey

for letting us know that managing personalities means not managing them at all.

by Titan52 on Aug 28, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

sure, I read it.

was hoping there would be some truth to the report that salaries wouldn’t dictate playing time though.

by Loch on Aug 28, 2011 12:25 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

not that I don't get the point being made.

I’m curious how much of Ozzie’s decisions are made to defy those that disagree with him.

by Loch on Aug 28, 2011 12:34 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

well aware of your point

Salaries do come into play with rios and dunn. I think Ozzie et. al. feel that there is still some hope from guys like beckham and morel and continue to cart them out there (along with lack of options). But with rios and Dunn there are options that are being ignored.

by Loch on Aug 28, 2011 12:42 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Steak dinner.

Fuckin’ BOOM.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Aug 28, 2011 1:52 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

Adam Dunn has struck out 156 times.

His batting average is .163.

This motherfucker is going to strike out more times than his batting average.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 28, 2011 11:45 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

i was going to say this probably has never happened...

but mark reynolds struck out 211 times and batted 198 in 2010. At least he hit 32 fucking bombs though.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 28, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

rob deer came close in his infamous 1991 season...

175 K’s 179 avg.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 28, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

at least what dunn is doing is remarkable.

you’ll be telling your grandchildren in thirty years that you saw it up close.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Aug 28, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

and john paciorek was 3-3 with 2 walks and 3 RBI and an OPS+ of 495 in 1963

which was his entire career.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Aug 28, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really old people shouldn't drive

and Omar Vizquel shouldn’t be allowed on a major league field or team.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 28, 2011 12:01 PM CDT reply actions  

yup.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 28, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

wow. thats a hell of a post to come back with

couldnt agree more.

Flowers always get me in scoring position. -SkanchoDanza

by e-gus on Aug 28, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

the problem is...they are just blog guys, at this point

the real story is being hidden, buried or misunderstood by all major media outlets. Our small little community gets it but SSS isn’t mainstream enough to start making other sox fans and the sports world as a whole realize that the sheer ignorance, rigid stubborness and lack of player accountability sunk the 2011 White Sox. Rongey and Merkin rely on the White Sox as much as the White Sox rely on them, their logic is so clouded and delusional because they need the White Sox to trust them. They are just as unbending as the hand that feeds them.

by Rhubarb on Aug 28, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

The difference is that the media aren't customers.

A couple may be fans, but they aren’t sinking money into it, nor pinning emotions to it. So they aren’t as invested in raising any hell over odd decisions/indecision.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Aug 28, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

true but if they really wanted to write some interesting stuff for once they should take the angle you and larry have taken and build public knowledge our management shat the bed

this season will go down in history, pinned on dunn and rios…when that is not the whole story. Screw their inside access. The only thing I can thank them for is getting quotes when they can, robots could easily do what they do. They have no independant thought process.

by Rhubarb on Aug 28, 2011 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe during the 2016 World Series celebration

you’ll feel relief, knowing 2-time MVP Dayan Viciedo will return, and help us get the 3-peat in his walk year.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 28, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're certainly a man of your word.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Aug 28, 2011 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

It was touched on a bit towards the end of the twitter exchange- The contracts.

That is the reason Vizquel has gotten a pass from the media and the fans. Compared to the throwing of crisp million dollar bills into a furnace that are the Rios and Dunn contracts, giving Omar his $1.75mil and not being on the hook again next year just seems inconsequential.

That doesn’t get into the roster spot stuff, but most casual fans don’t think at that level, and so the media isn’t going to go there either.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Aug 28, 2011 12:28 PM CDT reply actions  

it's more his playing time.

morel and beckham don’t make anything and they have been targeted.

by larry on Aug 28, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Beckham has been in the crosshairs because of the expectations.

Morel, well I don’t know what the heck people thought he was gonna be. He’s good at what he was brought in to do.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Aug 28, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think my early projections for him

were along the lines of .255 with 12 homers and 55 RBI’s or something. I don’t think i was shooting for the moon with them.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 28, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'm fine with morel, he's been improving. very very slowly, but still.

he even has 4 walks this month, which is more than the rest of the season put together.

by craigws on Aug 28, 2011 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

i want to see him start pulling the ball

you can’t make a living hitting fly balls to the opposite field unless you’re really strong. Morel is not that.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

something for him to work on in the offseason.

a solid, if completely unspectacular, first season.

by craigws on Aug 28, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

if he'd had the equivalent season in Charlotte

i’m sure we’d be pretty happy.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

well...

.289/.310/.374

perhaps not.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

heh.

i’m hoping he’ll build on it next year.
league average bats out of him and beckham would be sweet.

by craigws on Aug 28, 2011 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

they'd both be above average players in that case

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2011 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

probably

.310 wOBA would be nice

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unrelated, but an FYI

I know a bunch of people have been wondering about Humber’s contract status past this year. He’s controllable through 2015 per this write up.

http://soxbronzetitan.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/phil-humber-under-sox-control-until-2015/

by polodude017 on Aug 28, 2011 12:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Dunn on reduced time with viciedo here: ’I’m a realist, not an idiot.’

http://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/107884997154836480

he must be lying! we’ve been told the clubhouse would mutiny if players performing like shit were benched.

by larry on Aug 28, 2011 1:41 PM CDT reply actions  

This had nothing to do with baseball

he was talking about his taste in literature and film. He thinks anyone who doesn’t like Carver and Mike Leigh is a fucking moron. Adam hasn’t got the slightest clue who Viciedo is.

by Sox-35th on Aug 28, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

It has been frustrating seeing that the pieces to make this team better than .500 were available all season

but that stubbornness, misplaced loyalty, fear of mutiny, or whatever, kept the “managers” from putting it all together. I have to reluctantly agree that it is finally time for new managers.

White Sox 2011: The season of extraneous body parts.

by greenlight on Aug 28, 2011 2:26 PM CDT reply actions  

can it be said that Rongey and Merkin aren't completely out to lunch?

Rios and Dunn have been combined -3.5 WAR. if they never played again after June and were replaced by replacement level dudes, that adds like 1.5 wins. if they were replaced by average guys, that’s another 1.5 wins or so if my napkin is correct.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2011 3:00 PM CDT reply actions  

well what i mean is

that’s not getting them all that much closer. it helps, but the fact is that they needed every last bit of the old Dunn and Rios to get to 85-87 wins. even if de Aza/Bridge and Viciedo are both average (which, yeah, maybe we’ll see), the damage was pretty much done by June.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2011 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've said it before

Their job depends on being able to walk into the clubhouse and talk to the guys on a daily basis. Not all that different from a lobbyist from the oil industry telling you that they need more subsidies.

by 815Sox on Aug 28, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

that analogy makes no sense

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it does

They are company men, I cant decide whether they were brainwashed by proximity or if it is a calculated and premeditated Ari Fleischer job. Maybe they are just dumb.

by Rhubarb on Aug 28, 2011 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rongey may take the company line but he's not employed by them

he doesn’t get a slice of the pie like a lobbyist would.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I call BS

He is on track to take Hawk’s job when he is gone. To get that job is his dream and career goal. He’ll probably be pretty good at it too. Speaking harsh realities won’t help him get that job. It could make certain people perceive he can’t be trusted.

by Rhubarb on Aug 28, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd guess that's more likely.

Dave Wills, the previous Rongey, ended up in Tampa Bay a year before Rooney left.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Aug 28, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wish he had hung on for one more year

So we might’ve avoided Chris Singleton.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Aug 28, 2011 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

wills kicked the dog shit out of rongey.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

read between the lines.
As the partnership has turned out to be a successful one for WSCR-AM, it is not expected that any other changes will be made to the radio tie-ins to the game broadcasts, including pre-game and post-game shows with Chris Rongey, live remotes from US Cellular Field and surrounding businesses,

http://chicagoradioandmedia.com/news/1128-wscr-am-a-chicago-white-sox-extend-broadcast-agreement

what if the white sox were upset about some aspect of the partnership. say, they didn’t like the guy doing the pre-game and post-game show.

by larry on Aug 28, 2011 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he'd have to be a complete kiss ass in order to keep his job though.

From what I’ve heard on air (granted, not nearly as much as you Chicagoers have) Stone, Hawk, and Farmer don’t kiss Jerry and KW’s asses in order to keep their jobs. Rongey may think he needs to, or wants to in order to move up, but I don’t see any sort of conspiracy business there. I don’t see the WS directly telling him what to say.

Maybe I’m wrong. If I am, then that’s pretty messed up.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

as you point out and larry points out below...

I think he’s more or less sucking up because he doesn’t want to make waves and wants to move up. I can’t imagine he likes his current job too much. I would’ve quit or OD’d on painkillers and alcohol by now. Imo, he probably figures if he tows the company line and plays down KW and Ozzie’s ineptitudes then he’ll move up someday.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

So certainly not dumb,

but judging from his comments on the matter he appears to have his head so far up their asses he can see what they ate for lunch yesterday

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 28, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

of course they don't flat out tell them that.

but he certainly is aware that he ain’t the big dick in the room and can’t just say whatever he wants. there’s an unspoken limitation on him for sure.

and, as pointed out, if he has aspirations to be a white sox broadcaster…

by larry on Aug 28, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

just to spell it out further: if he has any broadcasting aspirations period

he can’t look like he’s biting the hand that feeds. any team that hires a broadcaster is looking for a guy who helps the brand.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

also, Stone, Hawk and Farmer have a lengrhy track record in the game

and they are all friends with jerry. Rongey is this guy who moved from Bloomington (out of nowhere) and lucked into the chance of a lifetime with possible upward mobility. What room does he have to be a contrarian? While I know he works very hard and has embedded himself in sox culture, he is entirely expendable. A lot of fans hate him too so he plays the part of the company man.

by Rhubarb on Aug 28, 2011 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go talk tons of shit about clients, co-workers, prospective and current clients

And see how they react to it.

He is far from the only media member that does this, he is far from the only guy on that specific radio station that does it.

It happens in all types of coverage, not just sports. Its called “not wanting to rock the boat” or “biting the hand that feeds you”. Have you seen how the mainstream media covers political candidates? They are not always the most critical of them. Especially when they want to talk to them at some point in the future.

by 815Sox on Aug 30, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

disgusting.

i don’t think the guy knows jack shit about baseball to be honest with you.

and the fact that bernstein is his hero or whatever makes me even more disgusted. i hate bernstein.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did he murder someone or something?

“Disgusting”? I don’t like the way he has been and I frequently disagree with him, but he has never seemed like a bad person or anything. He is actually even taking the time to talk to people outside of his job.

To get his job he has to know something about baseball too. They aren’t going to hire someone without any knowledge of a the sport they cover at a sports radio station. Especially one that covers the a large part of the nation at night (AM radio waves travel)

by 815Sox on Aug 30, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's as good a summary as possible

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

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