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Pitching survives - even thrives - with Flowers

Tyler Flowers squares up his grand slam on Sunday.

For our next stop on the Chicago White Sox's Can't-Do Attitude Tour, we turn to Tyler Flowers.

"Can't-do" doesn't apply to Flowers personally, mind you. He has exceeded just about everybody's expectations thus far, as he's hitting .273/.375/.473, with six of his 15 hits going for extra bases. Every time he appears set to crash -- such as a pair of silver sombreros against the Angels -- he bounces back.

Flowers even earned the A.J. Pierzynski Badge by catching a day game after a night game this weekend. He was on the receiving end of two great starts, and he hit the White Sox's first grand slam of the season in the series finale.

I bring up Flowers because he's doing the kinds of things that made Pierzynski irreplaceable in the minds and hearts of the people in and around the Sox. Hawk Harrelson is the chief cheerleader for Pierzynski's smarts, and many consider him the hardest White Sox player to replace. Kenny Williams has said he was uncomfortable with giving the team a rookie catcher; they re-signed Ramon Castro because they didn't want a rookie to be Plan B in the event of a Pierzynski injury.

Star-divide

 

Mark Buehrle, in particular, was adamant that a rookie catcher could hamper a veteran pitching staff. From the Sun-Times on Feb. 22, 2010:

''We can tell them, 'Hey, [Pierzynski] makes our team better, we want him back,''' Buehrle said. ''Tell them that if we go with Flowers, he's a young guy who has to learn a whole new pitching staff. In the long run, though, it's a business, and they're not going to listen to us all the time. I think everyone here would like to have him back. I know I would.''

Well, in Flowers' 15 starts this season, the White Sox are 9-6. He owns a 3.38 catcher's ERA, compared to Pierzynski's 3.74. Among the notches in his chest protector:

Don't take the particulars too seriously. For one, catcher's ERA is a sketchy-at-best stat, and Flowers has to play a solid month before his sample can be deemed even slightly comparable.

And most of all, I don't care to make this a Pierzynski vs. Flowers battle, because I'd still go with Pierzynski if I needed one catcher for the rest of the season. Flowers' problems with contact can sink him in a hurry, and the Sox need left-handedness with Adam Dunn on bedrest.

But it's important to note what Flowers is doing for posterity. Pierzynski's had the position in a headlock since he came to Chicago; in fact, he's the team's only catcher for an entire generation of Sox fans. Before his injury, you had to go back to 2006 to find a time when Pierzynski missed two consecutive regularly scheduled games. No matter how bad he's been -- and he's been outright terrible at times with his swing-at-everything approach -- Guillen feels compelled to write his name in the lineup card because of Pierzynski's veteran presence.

Granted, some of it's been due to the lack of a credible backup, but that doesn't explain all of it. Even when Ramon Castro became Ramon Blastro while Pierzynski 4-3'd himself into the ground last year, Castro couldn't club his way into starting two games in a row. Not even once. Guillen can't bench Pierzynski for even a short spell. Intangibles were cited as the official reason; Guillen's reluctance to upset a veteran or consider changing a "role" is more likely.

Pierzynski's injury allowed Flowers to establish a precedent. We've been told the Sox can't do without A.J., but we can point to this three-game sweep and say the pitching staff will not disband if somebody besides Pierzynski catches consecutive games. Pierzynski probably can game-call circles around Flowers, but Flowers found a way to catch two dandy starts, and he guided Jake Peavy to victory when he didn't have all his pitches. The Sox have options, even though they seem averse to them.

This will be more of an issue next season, when Flowers is the presumptive backup to Pierzynski for a full slate. Pierzynski didn't handle his contract year well in 2010, and he pinned his miserable start on his uncertain future. Should similar pressures sink Pierzynski for a month or two in 2012, there's finally ironclad proof that the Sox can survive without him for a few days.

Comment 135 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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THE PITCHING STAFF HAS DISBANDED?!?

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 12:12 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

*crashes through window*

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, if only I knew that asterisks in the body of the message made things bold *before* I posted that.

It’s not robbing Peter to pay Paul — it’s bludgeoning Peter to death, and then realizing on the way back that you forgot to grab his wallet.

by SonOfCron on Aug 29, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

the fuck is rios still doing in the 4 slot?

"The words "becorned can" just beminded my fuck." - SkanchoDanza

by BoeJouma on Aug 29, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

i mean, he'd be better suited in the 3 hole

in front of konerko. ozzie is so fucking annoying.

"The words "becorned can" just beminded my fuck." - SkanchoDanza

by BoeJouma on Aug 29, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats not to say i think he should be in the middle of the order

clearly

"The words "becorned can" just beminded my fuck." - SkanchoDanza

by BoeJouma on Aug 29, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Rios GIDPs and the bases are clear for Jackin' Dayan

Then Ozzie reasons he looks like less of an asshole for the solo shots, then he would for the three-run jack that got him in trouble yesterday.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

my favorite part of tanks day was the walk.

was a really good AB

"The words "becorned can" just beminded my fuck." - SkanchoDanza

by BoeJouma on Aug 29, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

What ever happened to that diminishing role for Rios thing.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wait... Rios was in a boy band?

Why wasn’t that a bigger story?

Little Bighorn. Classic small sample size. -Skancho Danza

by keystone connection on Aug 29, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

this is excellent

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

smedium shirts and skinny jeans

definitely a feminine look. or an excuse to count his money in public cause his pockets are few and minute

The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists

R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"

by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Aug 29, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

how can you tell they're skinny jeans without seeing the fit on the thighs and legs

And a plain white v-neck tee isn’t particularly feminine unless it’s actualizing cleavage.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Aug 29, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

seriously.

wtf wears white belts. with a white undershirt, nonetheless.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

The belt is not good, but I respect a rope.

Chain heavy. Chain too heavy.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Aug 29, 2011 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah yeah my chain too heavy

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Aug 29, 2011 6:18 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

I count at least eight.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

this was taken just before he took those two index fingers and rubbed them and his thumbs together

and just after he insulted a fan and refused to sign an autograph for another.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lawernce Holmes going medium hard right now on B&B.

Taking “our” side of the argument, without going after Rongey or Merkin.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Aug 29, 2011 2:16 PM CDT reply actions  

FUCK ROGNEY AND MERKIN

regardless of playoff chances its pretty obvious viciendo was better than half our roster since June.

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

the kid only has one n in his name.

"The words "becorned can" just beminded my fuck." - SkanchoDanza

by BoeJouma on Aug 29, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

whosh both of you

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

This.

Christ, no more whosh/whoosh shit.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love the word peccadillo.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with you there but you must consider the fact that some people

make a genuine error and deserve backlash. Once the backlash is received, in order to save face they they whosh. This person tries to give the perception that they are somehow more clever than they really are.

by Rhubarb on Aug 29, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Without rules, we have anarchy
Someone should compile a whosh protocol
Like Roberts rules of order for whoshing
by moroots on Apr 21, 2011 5:05 PM CDT via mobile

by moroots on Aug 29, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

don't fail to see the joke and/or sarcasm?

or don’t suggest to someone that they have failed to see the joke and/or sarcasm?

good luck with that.

by Trooper on Aug 29, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I fuckin' agree

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Amount of times "whosh" has been used on SSS: 412.

Amount of times it has been used by BOS: 30.

That’s good for 7.3% of all “whoshes”.

Same shit with “whoosh”: 473 and 32.

Granted WU is even more prolific, but still.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

for bos it is a way of trying to call someone stupid

when in reality he realized that it was the only way to possibly save face due to his own idiocy

by Rhubarb on Aug 29, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

jesus christ here you go

http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/8/28/2389247/gamethread-hurricane-theater#75805694

i swear i’ll never use whosh again!

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

We didn't think it factual.

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 29, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

clearly i need to start adding footnotes¹.

¹ i have no intention of using footnotes.

by craigws on Aug 29, 2011 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Spiegel actually did really good with it earlier

Dan McNeil tagged along with him. Speigel said we could have sent down a BP arm, JP or Omar.
LoHo is usually pretty bad when he is paired with Bernstein. Basically become a yes man. Most of that station has been calling for Viciedo though.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

he must be a "hyde park barber"

it is absolutely fantastic right now.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

seriously what the fuck was that

Where did that dude come from? His accent was so strong I couldn’t even tell if he liked or disliked the Sox. I think Hyde Park Barber might have been a racial thing?

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Without question

Rongey’s position will be if he fails, “told you so.”
If he succeeds, “no guarantee he would have done that earlier in the season.”

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 29, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I suppose the only thing to do is to not pay attention to Rongey at all

I like the concerted effort on twitter though because he is in the “blog guys” atmosphere and twitter is actually followed by industry people and fans alike.

by Rhubarb on Aug 29, 2011 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

rongey may be...obtuse,

but i’ve never heard him be a told you so guy. maybe i (rightly) don’t listen to him enough.

by obnoxious american on Aug 29, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

he isn't

He has always been nice any time I have had a discussion with him. In fact, he goes out of his way to talk to people. However, I think part of his problem is he isn’t selective enough.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

AJ's injury thus became the highlight of the 2011 season.

Here’s hoping the Flowers-Viciedo fireworks show gets plenty of opportunities in 2012.

by asinwreck on Aug 29, 2011 2:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Going to be at the game tonight.

Ticket is for left field foul territory.

by ObsidianXIII on Aug 29, 2011 3:15 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

sitting at home thru October?

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

With work, my family and my sanity

Living where I live it would take a smorgasbord of anti-depressants to sit through traffic only to get there in the second or third inning of a Buehrle game. Don’t question my shit!

by Rhubarb on Aug 29, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Me too

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Aug 29, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow. Tickets are dirt cheap from the Sox Ticketmaster site right now.

section 132 for $34.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Aug 29, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Caught Stealing

Pierzynski: SB 78 CS 19 (20%)
Flowers: SB 17 CS 6 (26%)

Small sample size. But can Pierzynski still blame the pitchers ALL the time?

by striker on Aug 29, 2011 3:57 PM CDT reply actions  

To compare

Alex Avila: SB 72 CS 36 (33%)
Joe Mauer: SB 26 CS 12 (32%)
Miguel Olivo: SB 66 CS 26 (28%)
Russell Martin: SB 72 SB 32 (31%)

Picked these guys randomly.

by striker on Aug 29, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

AL league average is 29%.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

And in case there was any wonder

Donny Lucy is on top.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe i'm crazy

but it seems like flowers can actually throw the ball to second base.

by obnoxious american on Aug 29, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Factoring out pickoffs

Pierzynski: 10-for-88 (11.3 percent)
Flowers: 5-for-22 (22.7 percent)

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Aug 29, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeesh.

How does he have 11%

by winningugly on Aug 29, 2011 4:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

you hit the ball

you…uh…something something

you catch the ball.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

guffaw.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Aug 29, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's a gift

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm here.

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 29, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oz said he and Dunn had productive chat, Oz says Dunn understands diminished role

huh. and here i thought you couldn’t change the Role of the Well-Paid Veteran Designated Hitter.

http://twitter.com/#!/MDGonzales/status/108288768506728448

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 4:28 PM CDT reply actions  

i know we've talked it to death

but what the hell? these players have to know they’ve screwed the team’s chances. what are Dunn and Rios gonna do, demand satisfaction?

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'd think there would have been a decent period of time

wherein dunn would have asked to keep playing because he sincerely believed he’d eventually come out of it.
clearly that time has passed for dunn.

by craigws on Aug 29, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure everyone, including myself...

assumes Ozzie will go back to starting AJ 6 times a week once he’s healthy again (and next season). But a lot of us doubted Ozzie’s ability to manage a bullpen and by all accounts he’s done a masterful job with that this season. I guess there’s hope. I’d like to see an even split next season, that’s probably wishful thinking, but I can dream.

by polodude017 on Aug 29, 2011 7:01 PM CDT reply actions  

no one here has really doubted ozzies ability to manage the bullpen

he is excellent with pitching outside of jake peavy and sucks offensively

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

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