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Reading Room: Dayan's dynamic debut creates weird atmosphere

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Sunday should've been a helluva day for White Sox fans, as the promotion of Dayan Viciedo paid immediate dividends. In his 2011 debut, he hit a three-run homer, singled and walked in four trips to the plate.

Instead, it threw more fuel on the fire for those upset with White Sox management, since Viciedo should've been given the chance to provide this kind of spark six weeks ago. The frustration manifested itself all over Twitter, including a continuation of Saturday's debate with Chris Rongey.

Scott Merkin took it to another level, playing up Viciedo's supposed mythical status on Twitter and calling Viciedo the S-word (no, not that one) in his game recap.

And questions about the delay in Viciedo's arrival prompted Ozzie Guillen to drop expletives after his team swept Seattle.

Star-divide

 

"I don't give a [darn] what people say. I only give a [darn] what [White Sox chairman] Jerry Reinsdorf and [general manager] Kenny Williams say," Guillen said. "People out there can have their own opinion; that's their job -- talk.

"There's nothing I can do about it. I get paid to manage a team. In the time they wanted that kid here, I didn't have any place for him. We would've had to make a trade or release somebody. I wasn't in the position to say, 'Bring him up.' I couldn't play with 26 players. I don't play him because it's not my decision who's coming and who's not.

And Mark Gonzales also provided an incomplete chronology of Viciedo's previous inroads to the roster (remember, there are other shortstops).

This is precisely what I meant when saying the timing of Viciedo's promotion was designed to kill any buzz. We should be raving about Viciedo's power the way Tyler Flowers did:

"He hit the crap out of that one, didn't he? It was about 10 feet high," Flowers marveled at Viciedo's shot. "Especially against a lefty who's not overpowering, I like that matchup every time. He's gonna do some damage."

Instead, Viciedo love has become a battlefield, and I don't like the way it's shaping up.

Most people canvassing for Viciedo's promotion didn't expect him to be a one-man wrecking crew. They thought he had a good chance at being average, which would be enough to serve as an upgrade over Adam Dunn's historical putridity. Given the way he hit with the White Sox last year, and the maturation of his approach at Charlotte, this was not an unreasonable expectation.

It's easy to see why Guillen's on the defensive. It's harder to understand why some beat writers are joining him, because they theoretically shouldn't have a dog in the fight. Nevertheless, they're completely missing the "relative to Dunn" part of the equation, and with their forces combined, they're pumping gas into the Viciedo Hype Machine just so they can make fun of it. And when Viciedo hits his first rough patch, we're going to hear all about the buildup, most of which they created.

So gird your loins for a healthy dose of smug. And in interim, I'm going to try to enjoy Viciedo's might. It's a sight to behold.

Star-divide

Christian Marrero Reading Room

Before we leave the topic of Dayan Viciedo, here are J.J.'s and James' perspectives on the matter.

Dunn can read the writing on the wall -- Viciedo will be cutting into his playing time, and Dunn can't find a way to object to it.

Carl follows up on his #HatsOffCWS campaign by drawing a shirtless Dunn. For the ladies.

And now it's Gordon Beckham's turn to talk about his struggles, with some insight from Kenny Williams, both of whom realize the high fastball is killing him. He did drop his bat on one for a double on Sunday, prompting him to say that he felt great for once.

James wraps up all the storylines from a 3-2 West Coast swing that shouldn't have been as bipolar as it was.

The White Sox are a family-oriented team, so they don't troll for tail on their downtime on the road - they troll for salmon. Beckham, Mark Buehrle, John Danks, Zach Stewart and assistant trainer Brian Ball spent a morning on a boat, and this was my favorite part:

The group managed to catch nine pink salmon, and lost just as many.

No matter what they do, these White Sox can't get away from .500.

Comment 306 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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Alright Margalus, you've crossed a line.

Much like a global conglomerate, You are now gonna take my small town primary means of contribution and do it better than me? (The photoshops.)

It’s on, Boss.

(COOKIE!!!!)

re:the beat writers-

It’s harder to understand why some beat writers are joining him, because they theoretically shouldn’t have a dog in the fight.

Ding ding ding. A dog who chases its only means of subsistence isn’t going to cut that off.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Aug 29, 2011 5:28 AM CDT reply actions  

No doubt new media has caused a bit of an existential crisis for the beat

I’d think the smart thing to do would be to embrace it. Provide a little more analytical content, use the access they’re supposed to be cultivating to take readers inside a little more, beyond just transmitters of post-game quotes.

And the biggest one- use the good will they cultivate as a basis for writing something critical here and there.

Do all of that and not be Cowley, I think there’s a useful beat writer to be had.

by Titan52 on Aug 29, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

But this is a problem with all old media

news and sports.

They no longer see their job as ferreting out news stories. They provide access.

Mike Royko once wrote a great column (well, he did that often) where he talks about how a group of reporters were out at a restaurant in France in the 50’s, and while boozing it up, didn’t realize they had run up a pricey tab. A silence fell over the table as they tried to figure out whose expense accounts could pick up what, when the waiter came back to the table and said the guy in the corner picked up their tab.

It turned out to be Pablo Picasso, and he just waived at them. Royko went on to explain that the reporters were not in the same money realm as Picasso, or anyone they were covering, for that matter. 30 years ago, Royko was opining that as reporters approached the people they covered in net worth and celebrity, they became less objective about them. Instead of seeing celebrities, politicians and the barons of commerce as news subjects to be reported on, they came to empathize with them. They were comrades.

So now Cowley “reports” on a pissing match where he’s clearly taken sides. Guys like Mariotti (does he even work anymore?) try to create stories by embellishing post game quotes, or over-reacting to some gesture, or whatnot.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 29, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Deadspin had a great segment several months ago about establishing a "brand."

Because of blogs, Sports Radio, and ESPN, a sportswriter can become a celebrity.

That wasn’t the case in the 70’s or 80’s, when the peak of multi-media sports journalism was watching Jerome Holtzmann and Bill Jauss on “The Sports Writers on TV.”

They used Mariotti as the test case. He was a thought provoking writer at one time. Then he started cultivating the “Mariotti Brand,” showing up on ESPN, going out in public with various girlfriends, and acting the part of a big shot. The most telling quote was from a colleague who was surprised to find out he still had a wife and family in the northern suburbs.

In other words, being an asshole insures success.

Re: the former Sun-Times White Sox beat writer. I know someone at WSCR who knows Mr. Cowley, and he says the whole thing is an act. He’ll lay into someone and then say “hey, good talk…I didn’t mean it.”

From his perspective, can you blame him? The Sun-Times is on life support. Everyone at the paper is probably looking for a way out.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Aug 29, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

So what about newspaper cartoonists?

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Aug 29, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again, great writing, Jim.

Who gets to own SSS once the MSM buys you off with a lucrative job offer?

by winningugly on Aug 29, 2011 6:21 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

As mentioned on yesterday's GT, it will be interesting to see the line-up that Ozzie constructs this week.

Will it be the best possible line-up or will it be a veteran-respecting line-up?

Jim, congratulations on the excellent photo-edit work! The cookie crumbs on his upper lip must have taken, like, three hours!

White Sox 2011: The season of extraneous body parts.

by greenlight on Aug 29, 2011 7:42 AM CDT reply actions  

viciedo will be essentially full time

the rest of it, though, will continue. and flowers is riding pine on 9/2.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 8:15 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Sigh for Flowers

but I understand.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 29, 2011 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Think we'll move AJ?

It’s not like his contract is ridiculous, and he didn’t have a terrible season. I realize his on field performance wouldn’t be the only issue with his reputation but I have to think he’s repaired that somewhat in his time here. If we’re trying to cut payroll, seems like an easy spot to do it. I’d think there’s a team out there that could use a veteran catcher for a year.

by Grinder in Training on Aug 29, 2011 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why would A.J. want to go anywhere?

Seems pretty comfortable here with a manager who won’t threaten his playing time. I doubt he will want to leave.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Aug 29, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

yep aj is a 10/5 guy now a days...

he’ll get the lions share of the work next year i’m sure. if he starts splitting time more evenly though, that could get ugly fast.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Buddy Bell has no desire to manage again.

http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/5/18/2177847/i-smell-trouble-sss-meets-buddy-bell

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

You didn't hear the man's voice when he said it.

Buddy Bell is not going to manage again.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

He wasn't exactly a world-beater in Detroit or Denver either.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

So not Bell, but my bigger point is not Ozzie next year

Bell was just a name I picked from within the Sox that had the experience. I fully expect 815 to come in and point out that Ozzie is still our best option but there has to be better available.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

a question.

who’s available?
cora’s most likely
there may be others.
Enlighten me.

by The Face on Aug 29, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cora is Ozzie's guy

It would be the same thing without Ozzie being Ozzie. Won’t happen and no thank you.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not interested in Cora either

He can walk with Ozzie, Kenny and Walker too. The Sox should be able to attract somebody.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

what's wrong with having sox guys?

not that that is what you should do.

many people want Big Frank as at least a hitting coach.

by The Face on Aug 29, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

big frank has 50 business ventures going on

and doesn’t need the grind of a mlb season… nor the headache of being a hitting coach. no way in hell he is ever on a coaching staff.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

The best hitters are rarely good hitting coaches

Their natural ability and instincts cannot be taught.

by Rhubarb on Aug 29, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

but do you know how it works on the pro level?

by The Face on Aug 29, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

What I was trying to say is, former pro's who had to work for everything they got, the average players or below average players,

may have a better knowledge base on the art of hitting, thus make better coaches. A guy like Frank Thomas could just hit the shit out of the ball, not saying he wasn’t a student of the game but it may be harder to put into words for a guy like that.

by Rhubarb on Aug 29, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don Baylor? Frank Robinson? Dusty Baker?

Frank loves to talk hitting. I bet he’d be an average hitting coach at worst, which is miles beyond Greg Walker.

by PeejSox on Sep 1, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

50 buisness ventures mean nothing

to someone who loves baseball. you should know this.

I also think that he’d make a great coach, and perhaps misses being involved in baseball. I’d imagine that his 50 business ventures are just investments.

Big Frank can work

by The Face on Aug 29, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

i've got about as much of a chance at replacing rongey as frank does at becoming a coach.

he has no reason to do it. he’s living the life out in vegas.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

it would depend on how analystical a hitter he was

If he was constantly studying film, looking for every edge he could get, then he could work.

But if Frank didn’t have to study as much because of his freakish abilities, then it wouldn’t work.

by Titan52 on Aug 29, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

thomas still remembers at-bats from twenty years ago.

can’t find the article where it speaks about that, but hopefully someone else can remember.

by craigws on Aug 29, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

"We’ll see," Thomas said when asked in general if he’d like to be a hitting coach. "One of these years, you never know. I’m happy right now. I’m getting to spend a lot of time with my kids, something I didn’t get to do for 20 years. I’m getting ‘me’ time, but I am a little anxious to start doing something."

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110731/sports/707319802/print/

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dave Martinez, TB coaching staff

Tom Foley, TB 3rd base coach
Ron Wotus, Giants staff
Alan Trammell, Arizona
Jerry Narron, Milwaukee
Don Wakamatsu, Toronto
Sandy Alomar Jr, Cleveland
Carlos Tosca, Atlanta
Tim Bogar, Boston
DeMarlo Hale, Boston

That’s just pulling names off of the staffs of successful teams. Not making any value judgments about any of them.

Point is, it’s not like finding a new manager would be hard.

by Titan52 on Aug 29, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

tim wallach

ted simmons
willie randolph

but yah… davey martinez and sandy alomar look pretty decent to me.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

thanks,

what do you think about the coaches?

by The Face on Aug 29, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

well id hope they keep cooper unless they brought in larussa (who would bring duncan).

pretty sure harold will be here as long as he wants to be here. cora would be out. walker? i don’t know. i guess it depends who they hire… but Konerko loves him and paulie carries a lot of weight. i’m sure they’d let the new guy bring in his own 3rd base coach and bench coach.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

why do you like La Russa?

screw that dude.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have no attachments to the managers of my childhood.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

my dad said lamont should manage st. louis

so he’d have his initials on his hat… for stupid lamont.

i do like jeff torborg though. unfortunately he is 70.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

stupid lamont is hilarious

Flowers always get me in scoring position. -SkanchoDanza

by e-gus on Aug 29, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

i like him because he managed my favorite team of all time history.

and then he managed one of my favorite teams other than the sox. and he has done a pretty good job in st. louis.

but nowhere did i say in that post i like him. his name has been brought up… so i just decided to say if larussa is in he will be bringing duncan.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I cannot understand wanting LaRussa

1 of the top complaints against Ozzie is the obsessions with “small ball”. LaRussa is the only manager that would make it worse.

Chicago suffers from the Ditka disease and loves screamy coachy guys but more often than not they do not work out.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

i loved the 83 sox and the late 80s a's. larussa managed them both.

and he had plenty of homer hitters on those rosters. but this is a losing battle for me- most all of you hate larussa for one reason or another.

even though he’s one of the winningest managers of all time history.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

So was Joe Torre

and I wouldn’t have wanted him as our manager either.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

i know what this is...

you’re an agist! Be ware WU. haha

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't like managers who prolong the shit out of games and won't play younger players.

La Russa takes the can’t disrespect a veteran shit to a whole nother level.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

he's a dick.

pretty shoddy move revealing clubhouse stuff in that book.

by craigws on Aug 29, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't matter if he has homer hitters on the team

Do you not agree that he is notorious for his “small ball” play? He is the last thing the sox need.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed that paulie carries some weight

coop is irreplaceable, herm does his job better than about anyone. nobody here (SSS) likes walker.
ozzie and cora have sentimental value, but are replaceable, I wasn’t responded to your post anyway…

by The Face on Aug 29, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

love baines, but love coop

much more. see my lower post about keeping coop.

by The Face on Aug 29, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Martinez, Alomar look good

I’m intrigued by Wakamatsu. He may legitimately have been a victim of a shitty GM.

Bogar is a local, so that could be an interesting story at least.

I know I have no great insight, but guys who have put in time with successful managers like Maddon and Francona (even Scioscia provided they reject Catcher ERA) are appealling.

by Titan52 on Aug 29, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

He lost the clubhouse because of the Ken Griffey Jr. sleep apnea incident.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Unless you're married to KW

I think he would move up, over or out, first, and the White Sox would replace him. He would work out a direction over the winter, and keep Ozzie for next year, inventorying the organization and figuring what he wants/needs from the next manager.

If Kenny goes this year, I think Ozzie’s gone after next.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 29, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

replace KW with a new GM who keeps Ozzie?

Unless its Hahn, I dont see that working out. A new GM will want to bring in a mgr.

I shant be misled a second time

by Nordhagen on Aug 29, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

~
MP: When you left the Royals back in 2007, you said that part of it was you wanted to spend more time with your family. If you were ever offered another shot at managing a major league team, would you take it?

BB: (damn near instantly and emphatically) No. No, and I have had unofficial talks with other people in other organizations, but no. First of all, I like where I’m at too much and I like the people I’m working with so I’m good where I’m at. I’m almost 60 years old, it’s not that I’m too old, but when I manage I like to throw BP and hit fungoes (fungos?) and things like that but my body’s kind of falling apart and I couldn’t do it the way I’d want to do it.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like a "YES" to me...

Hire Adam Dunn to hit fungoes. It might take a while to get one to the outfield, but there’s that.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 29, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, Dunn is going to be given his ample chance to rebound next year

And I sincerely hope he does. That leaves Flowers on the wrong side of a time share with A.J. or back in AAA. Two good catchers is a great problem to have unless sitting causes the younger one with promise to regress.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

regress doesn't mean that.

and, i don’t want to ruin the ending, but flowers is going to have trouble adjusting to the majors. being a backup for a season and getting the benefit of some favorable matchups isn’t such a bad idea.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I got no issue with this

mentioned it at the beginning of the season. Flowers can back up AJ for a year. Hopefully a new manager gives him a few more games to play and AJ some time off next year.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 29, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

This.

AJ is not a core problem. Focus, people, focus.

by winningugly on Aug 29, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

When I asked if he would be moved

I wasn’t saying it because he’s a problem. I was suggesting it because it seemed like a movable contract to save money, forgot about 5/10 rights though.

by Grinder in Training on Aug 29, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

In looking things over at Cot's Contracts, it looks like they won't be able to do much in the offseason

They have about $90MM already obligated. Add in something like $16 to 20MM for Danks and Q. Add a few million for the pre-arb guys plus a few million for Beckham’s first arb. If they re-sign Buehrle, that’s another $12 to 15MM.

That puts them over $120MM right there. Unless they let Buehrle walk or trade Q/AJ, there isn’t much money to spend on outside improvements

by joewho112 on Aug 29, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know how likely it is, but I would like to see it.

I don’t think we get as much value back by trading him as we would by keeping him and riding the bet for his upside to flourish again.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Managing a business is hard.

You want a blank check, go work for the government.

by winningugly on Aug 29, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I do, and if I had advised a disastrous pick up like the Rios contract

that limits other options well into the future. I wouldn’t be working for them anymore. One thing we should have learned from the Cubs is not to make a Soriano type deal. Kenny didn’t make that horrible contract but he picked it up. Sacrificing Q for Rios and his immovable contract just kills you as a fan.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rios was traded?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 29, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

*waiver claim

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Aug 29, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Don't know that they are needed.

Especially if Dunn can find his swing. I hope Q does come back so he and the Tank can man the corners.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

he's juan pierre. duh.

white sox need a leadoff hitter.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know that larry is unwhosable

I also know that de aza will earn his contract next year while performing as well if not better than juan pierre

by The Face on Aug 29, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

But will he perform as well or better than Q?

Not likely. I like De Aza as a super sub and I would have liked Pierre that way too beofre him. I want Q starting. (I know, fracking payroll to consider)

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gotta cut costs

This is one of the least painful ways.

by joewho112 on Aug 29, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

trade Q and AJ

and dump rios. I don’t care if you have to pay half of his payroll and give up the farm to do that last part. Just do it.

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not to mention paying half his contract and giving up the farm system to do so doesn't solve the money problem.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

He won't even burn the Rios jersey that was bought for him

and he wants the Sox to dump millions of dollars and prospects to get rid of Rios….huh

by Rhubarb on Aug 29, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lets not get crazy now

Cannot dump the farm to get rid of Rios. Rios might have a better season anyways.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

i wasn't referring to that specifically,

i meant he is optimistic across the board, often in cases when it could be fairly described as unwarranted.

by craigws on Aug 29, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I find his attitude refreshing around here

If he keeps that attitude throughout his life, there is no doubt he will be successful…and perhaps become 312Sox or ATLEAST 847Sox

by Rhubarb on Aug 29, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

815 is a fantastic area code.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

708 is the king

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please.

217 is scrappy as hell.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

hey, that's my area code!

it includes springfield, decatur, danville, teutopolis, greenup and rantoul also!

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Aug 29, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

See craig?

217 plays the game the right way.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

i don't know if i'd call 847 grindy.

park ridge is pretty anti-grindy.

Easy chief
We’re a community - Tdogg

by Jack M on Aug 29, 2011 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

lake forest and wilmette are ungrindy

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

as an 847er

there is nothing grindy about 847

brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight

by whitesoxmatt on Aug 30, 2011 6:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Then come live in Elgin

You’re right that Naperville is not grindy.

by Rhubarb on Aug 30, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

With AJ thrown in for whackiness

you heard it here first.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 29, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe not in statistics, but backward movement is one of its English definitions.

And i will disagree with you that watching other people hit has anything more than a marginal benefit for your own swing. We hear all the time how promising players who could be in the majors got to AAA just so they can keep the regular playing time and keep their swing up. That would suck for Flowers since he seems to be getting it.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

that whole "keep their swing up"

is management speak for “don’t want to call up.”

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also if the starters get used to Flowers as a backup

That might avoid the annual “we’re more comfortable with AJ” business that has constrained the team’s options in the past.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Aug 29, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is a great teaser to my noontime post.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Aug 29, 2011 10:22 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Excellent post. Catchers do make great managers, and he has the baseball smarts.

"Big Klu could hit 'em out of Yellowstone National Park."

by JP1102 on Aug 29, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

He is a lunatic.

I would be surprised if his personality issues translate well to management.

by winningugly on Aug 29, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

i think he could do it if he wanted.

the guy is a wrestling fan… pretty sure he could cut better promo’s than ozzie does- only with aj you’d understand them.

i doubt he has any interest in that though. commentator maybe.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he'd be great at it because he knows the game in and out

I’ve never seen a player manipulate the rule book on the field the way he does. I imagine he could do really well managing and it would be really entertaining.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Think Larry Bowa.

He’s a tightly wound spring. I love him to death, but it’d be a stretch to see him holding up over a full managerial season.

by winningugly on Aug 29, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

He might be able to manipulate the rules but can he manipulate the players?

He had issues with Bonds and Kent in SF, correct? WHat happens if he is asked to manage a diva?

by joewho112 on Aug 29, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

who didn't have issues with bonds and kent

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I remember it being issues with Brett Tomko, not Bonds or Kent.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

And a certain trainer's groin

It’s hard to manage if your trainers’ groins don’t feel secure

by joewho112 on Aug 29, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

that story has never ever been confirmed.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Aug 29, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did he get Tomko traded for Jeff Marquez because he couldn't get along?

No, not worried then. Every manager is going to have scrapes with players. Ozzie certainly had his fair share. I can handle those of the line up decisions and in game calls are well done.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

ozzies been a manager for a while now

Aj can make it as a manager. I’d take him as the sox manager

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

dammit he has 5/10 doesnt he?

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

not necessarily

with God Donny on the bench, they could play one at catcher and DH the other.

Pierre
De Aza
Konerko
AJ
Ramirez
Viciedo
Flowers
Morel
Beckham
or
Pierre
Ramirez
Konerko
Rios
AJ
Viciedo
Flowers
Morel
Beckham

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

they say konerko is going to be at first anyway.

and that dunn’s playing time will be cut. so do it up

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Comment from the twitter wars I missed over the weekend.

This mentality that because there are multiple holes the Sox shouldn’t try to fix any. The defense of Vizquel is comical. In essence Merkin disagreed but neglected to counter Larry’s statement that he couldn’t hit or field. We are left with the "player coach." Player worth is not new science. Rongey and Merkin can’t simply stick their heads in the sand and not acknowledge the White Sox WILLING trotted out 2 of the worst everyday players consistently in a pennant race, when every reasonable mind gave them credit for giving them a chance to turn it around and they didn’t.

Anyone else think KW is strangely absent in all this debate lately?

Dress it up whatever way you want. There is zero excuse that one of the worst offensive teams in the AL left an offensive piece in AAA until August 27th because he didn’t have any place to play. I am thoroughly disgusted by the White Sox this year and frankly I’m tired of them treating me (the KNOWLEDGEABLE ticket buying fan) like a freaking idiot.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 29, 2011 8:17 AM CDT reply actions  

are they just being company men,

defending this absurdity? cause it seems they’d be better off not saying anything, rather than make the whole situation look even more stupid. i just don’t get the point.

by obnoxious american on Aug 29, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

of course you don't get it

it’s a complex situation.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 8:25 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

yep. i question whether or not he knows what in the hell he is talking about on a daily basis.

he probably does… but as was mentioned yesterday… is afraid to say it. but he comes across like a jackass.

and i am sick of hearing how hard his job is. really? its that hard to talk about baseball? i’m pretty sure most of us would take his job in a second.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Uhhhh. No.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

i wouldn't want to deal with that many idiots.

this site is obnoxious enough after the white sox lose a couple games. at least i don’t have to engage those people.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

how many calls does the guy take a night? 5? id do it in an instant.

i think his job is made harder because he wont take a stand on anything.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

I could do it for maybe a day

Have you heard some of the callers? Especially guys like “Rocco”?

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

true

Rocco sounds more intelligent than my clients (or at least most of them)

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much this.

Please. Rongey Boo fucking Hoo. The guy makes a lot of money for taking phone calls. It’s not like he’s out working with DCFS for$35k/year.

"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd

by South Side Expat on Aug 29, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol.

nah. rocco was a much bigger tool than i am. and he’s not making as much as my unemployment check. money for nothing and the chicks for free baby.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah

expecting me and all of you to believe that their hands were tied from day one on this viciedo thing is an insult.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

*ignoramus

I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.

by thatshortkid on Aug 29, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here is Rongey to me on the 8th of July
@815Sox Vizquel is the backup middle infielder. He’s going nowhere. I’ll be bavk tomorrow
ChrisRongey Chris Rongey
 
@815Sox Pierre is not the problem. If Dunn and Rios don’t pull their weight, Viciedo is of little help

Both on Pierre on Vizquel being replace. Its the same thing, my argument was adding a bat with pop. He is of course right about Dunn and Rios (maybe not about DV being “of little help”, but that was not the issue.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

He was like this in 2007 too.

Live too far away to hear him now, but I remembered him defending Machowiak in center and it would drive me nuts.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

his second tweet just defies logic, i don't get it.

by definition viciedo would be of help if dunn and rios aren’t pulling their weight! ugh.

Easy chief
We’re a community - Tdogg

by Jack M on Aug 29, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

rogneys brain is a cesspool of maggots

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

yep.

of course then they will trade him.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Ozzie is done.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Aug 29, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

if ozzie were not mailing it in

we would have seen one of his epic blow-ups sometime in the past few weeks.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have found myself looking for evidence

Of managerial malfeasance by Ozzie, without meaning to, which started in earnest with the frasor inning. Last night I realized I was surprised when he emerged timely to pull Floyd.

Can’t say I’ve ever suspected a manager of such compromised intent, even subconsciously.

by spengler on Aug 29, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

he doesn't have "compromised intent"

he’s not going to do stuff like have gavin floyd 130 pitches or something. he’s not out to destroy careers or the white sox.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree

But given the mixed motivations presented by what’s turning into viciedogate, it gets harder to define the line between “mailing it in” and inappropriately throwing in the towel

by spengler on Aug 29, 2011 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stretch,

Stretch,Stretch,Stretch,Stretch,Stretch,Stretch,Stretch,
~~~)

-yes it’s a penis joke
you yopos

by The Face on Aug 29, 2011 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

i don't think there's any mixed motivations.

i truly believe they didn’t call up viciedo because they were unwilling to make the roster move that would be necessary to do so and were unwilling to accept that dunn wasn’t going to start hitting. and the white sox are true believers in these precepts.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

But if a team with a payroll of almost $130 million needs to be carried by a 22-year-old who is still learning how to hit, it’s not going too far.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-your-morning-phil-epstein-viciedo-posey-20110829,0,7643230.story

utterly mind-boggling. one expects such black or white analysis from fans. the laziness of the MSM is amazing.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

I enjoy that Posey comes up in the URL.

A great example of how adding someone who can actually hit over players that can’t can actually help a team.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 29, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dear Lord.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 29, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

my fucking ass.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Aug 29, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

truer words

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

nice skancho

For some reason I picture KW shredding documents like crazy right now and take the K’s and W’s off all the org’s keyboards

by Rhubarb on Aug 29, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

SoxGate

Tried to think of something that would have worked with Enron but I couldn’t

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

gate is way overused

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 29, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

New guy who can actually hit = expecting him to carry the team. Right.

Any fan (let alone someone who is supposed to know what they’re talking about because they write about baseball for a living) knows damn well Paulie has carried the offense. Tank doesn’t have to carry the load, he just has to pick up a corner that was dragging in the mud all year.

by Yinka Double Dare on Aug 29, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

omar, morel, lillibridge? they couldnt move any of them? no they have a feud between sitting dunn and trying to trade juan?

all i know is that next year, if everyone is hitting, it makes it easier to clear up the roster. and i like AJ and Juan but its time. they arent on mega deals and have younger counterparts in need of consistent MLB burn.

and we know beckham has been taking several step backwards at the plate but he should have been masked in this lineup. i could live with his .230 BA chasing high 95 heaters if the people who are sposed to slug, slug. all i know is if ish hits the fan with the offense he shouldnt be counted on to come up with big hits and carry the offense

The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists

R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"

by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Aug 29, 2011 9:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Time for what?

A.J. isn’t going anywhere.

a VERY AVERAGE Sox Machine refugee

by big_fun on Aug 29, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure why, now that AJ is on the DL for the first time,

that we focus on a guy having a career year. We have plenty of holes to fill – and plenty of holes to make (as in, make room for productive players).

by winningugly on Aug 29, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

shiny new toy syndrome.

happens everytime a prospect / fill-in gets off to a hot start.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

yep.

although id ride out his hot streak as long as possible.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

AJ could go just because he's making money and Flowers isn't

they’re gonna have to bring costs down. Quentin for de Aza doesn’t fix that.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

he seems like a guy who loves to win

so if you got him one of those kinds of opportunities, he’d take it. but larry always talks about how guys really do prefer not to uproot family and all that so maybe not.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 29, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

With today's comments I think Ozzie is done, that has got to be it

It doesn’t matter if I think he should or shouldn’t go. Jerry is going to hear him saying he doesn’t care what the fans think in the middle of one of the most disappointing sports seasons in Chicago history (all sports, not just White Sox)

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 10:47 AM CDT reply actions  

One of the most disappointing seasons in Chicago history?

Come on now. We’re a .500 team. We weren’t expected to be the 1927 Yankees, we were expected to compete for a division title, and we’re a bad month away from doing that. Shitty year, sure, but it takes a damn lot to be one of the most disappointing in Chicago History.

by Grinder in Training on Aug 29, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

The expectations were very high

Maybe I should have said of recent history. In my lifetime I cannot remember many being this upsetting. When the Hawks and Bears are bad you usually know they are going to be bad. This team was expected to win the division, hell many thought they had a WS shot. This thought wasn’t just among fans either.

The White Sox sign a huge bat, look like they are going to score tons of runs and almost everyone fizzles. That is a pretty big deal.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Same goes for the Bulls

When they were awesome, they didn’t really disappoint. The Hawks going out in the first round in the early 90s was up there too.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

1994 was the most disappointing in the last 50 years

mainly because Reinsdorf was behind the scenes, pulling the plug on the season, over bullshit they never got from the players anyway.

The White Sox had just taken a key series from the Indians to pull ahead from the Indians, and it looked like we had a real shot at the World Series.

That fucking sucked.

This year? I would call it irritating. Like 1997. They never played well enough to be disappointing.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 29, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

yah 94 was bad.

03 was pretty bad too. i thought they had a legit shot at the whole thing that year as well.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't think 03 was as bad as this year

I wasn’t old enough in 94 to form an opinion. I understood what happened but at 11 years old you don’t really get angry at coaching staffs and managers.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

94 had nothing to do with the coaching staff... it had to do with the owner and the strike

reinsdorf pulled the strings which led to the strike when the sox were in first and a legit contender.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Aug 29, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

yes we were

I said that. I think everyone knows that.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was responding to GIT

He said expected to compete for the division. I was correcting because the expectations were a lot higher from a lot of the fans and analysts I read. I agree completely with your sentiment.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't care that he doesn't care what fans think

The damning thing is when he admits punting on actual managing.

Apparently when Kenny approaches him about wanting to bring a guy up, he is incapable of offering up which disposable player to move out. And Kenny didn’t respond, and go ahead and move a body out for him.

by Titan52 on Aug 29, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

summary

States that bringing up DV could have been done much earlier

If the season fails, Ozzie and KW will not take accountability

Not our of the realm of possibility that Oz and KW’s relationship/game of Chicken prevented DV from coming up

Says if KW talked as much as Ozzie we would hear just as odd rants defending himself

Does not think relationship is frayed beyond betrayal and they have working relationship, thinks that total failure of the this team very well might end the relationship by costing one a job

Goes on talking about DV, really likes him. States that Right Field was his position in Cuba and that may have been unknown by the top brass.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thinks Danks wants to stay around

Switching agent is a big deal. Thinks that Jordan’s presence is a huge deal for Danks. Thinks good chance CQ stays

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Im as big a Quentin fan as any

but I doubt Q is here next year.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 29, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

don't they classify as "organization"?

this make them sound like even more of a massive failure.

by obnoxious american on Aug 29, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

who knows

They were playing him at 3rd and 1st for most of the time. I am not sure if they are supposed to know every prospects history. At this point we don’t even know if its true. But yeah it doesn’t sound good that is for sure.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Even if he's signed off of performance in workouts

Which I gather is how a lot of internationals are signed- without actually seeing them in a game, you’d think they would have asked him at some point, or found some video out of Cuba. Something. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

by Titan52 on Aug 29, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why did they originally play him at 3B then?

iirc he was fairly large when he came over even then.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

We needed a fielder too.

Quentin prior to this year was a butcher in the field. Then there was always Pierre.

by justjc on Aug 29, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

so they moved him up the spectrum to see if he could handle it?

I don’t have a big problem with that, just curious.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's what the cubans did.

i don’t really consider it moving up. that’s where they had a spot open when he was like 16. so that’s where he played. when a spot at third base opened up, they moved him there. who knows what else, if anything, went into their thinking.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

JR needs to intervene this week and tell Ozzie to put the line-up on the field that will win fans back to The Cell.

They’re not going to get many (any?) fans clamoring for tickets knowing that Toe Boat is starting in center.

White Sox 2011: The season of extraneous body parts.

by greenlight on Aug 29, 2011 11:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Who knows what JR is doing

he has to be weighing options right now, he is not the type to stand around and do nothing.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

If he is smart he would stay far far away from that

Hockey in the south just doesn’t work and I cannot think of a Canadian city ready for a team that doesn’t have one. Way to many teams in the NHL nowadays.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

What was Toby Keith doing in the dugout?

"How the hell did Pete Rose get 4,000 hits?" - Paul Konerko's comment after achieving his 2,000 hit (8/23/11)

by tailgater on Aug 29, 2011 12:39 PM CDT reply actions  

He doesn't seem to be sharing in the joy of Tank's accomplishment.

"How the hell did Pete Rose get 4,000 hits?" - Paul Konerko's comment after achieving his 2,000 hit (8/23/11)

by tailgater on Aug 29, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, neither have we. And our paychecks don't come close to his.

So, I’m not feeling too bad for the big fella.

"How the hell did Pete Rose get 4,000 hits?" - Paul Konerko's comment after achieving his 2,000 hit (8/23/11)

by tailgater on Aug 29, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hell, if he can turn it around somewhat this year

we’ll all be giving the guy a standing o.

I’m just not going to get too teary-eyed for a guy who came into the season unprepared to do the sole thing he was hired to do – hit.

I know he thought it would be “automatic” for him to show up and start mashing taters, but it didn’t quite work out that way and so now we’re all stuck with what looks to be a lost season.

Yep, I hope he actually works out and swings a bat over the winter, and comes back better than ever. But until then…

"How the hell did Pete Rose get 4,000 hits?" - Paul Konerko's comment after achieving his 2,000 hit (8/23/11)

by tailgater on Aug 29, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I amuse you?

Like a clown?

"How the hell did Pete Rose get 4,000 hits?" - Paul Konerko's comment after achieving his 2,000 hit (8/23/11)

by tailgater on Aug 29, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

you mentioned...

“it catches up with you at some point.”
http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/8/24/2381031/angels-5-white-sox-4-down-goes-frasor#75446381

What’d you meant there?

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

age.

can’t trust your body to keep acting the same way once you get to dunn’s age.
have to start putting the work in if he wants to keep playing for a long time, a la thome.

by craigws on Aug 29, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

craig's response above is what I thought you were implying when you said that (talking about Jenks, but referring to Dunn)

but then you said you found it amusing that people think Dunn should’ve changed his workout routine that had worked for him for so long. Hence my confusion.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

successful people generally aren't going to change their routines until it isn't successful anymore.

the catastrophic level of not successful is what is disconcerting about this, not that he’s realizing that maybe he needs to change things up a bit.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

ahh. gotcha.

makes sense then. You were explaining what the problem might be, and not implying that he should have known going in. Hard to expect a guy to all of a sudden change what’s worked for so long. Gotta expect he’ll try a different off-season regimen next time around. If that doesn’t work… then well, I guess all hope is lost.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will add that...

hopefully this situation turns out like Buehrle’s after adopting an off-season throwing regimen. Different positions, different training regimens, different levels of suckitude, I know. But similar basic idea.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 29, 2011 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes.

i would say, though, that an organization should generally try to find guys who are already johnny condition guy. pierre obviously gets a lot of shit. but there’s not a better conditioned player on the club. it’s why he can still play.

by larry on Aug 29, 2011 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

he was just as prepared this season as he has been for every season of his career.

which, as has been pointed out, has been an example of consistency.
that said, yeah, he’d better be working his arse off this off-season.

by craigws on Aug 29, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

And invite Rios and Bacon over.

"How the hell did Pete Rose get 4,000 hits?" - Paul Konerko's comment after achieving his 2,000 hit (8/23/11)

by tailgater on Aug 29, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Which he said he plans on doing

No reason not to trust the guy. This has gotten so personal for some people. He is not a bad person and players say he is a great teammate.

by 815Sox on Aug 29, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hell just froze over. I gave justjc a rec

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 29, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be surprised to see him hit 50 in March

seems fitting. This time they’ll do an appendectomy that’s not a cover for a penectomy and we’ll see what April brings.

by Gentleman Jim on Aug 29, 2011 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

He'll be balls out.

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 29, 2011 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

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