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Flowers For Tdogg

Brother of Menelaus!

I'm nothing if not accommodating; it's time to provisionally scout Tyler Flowers.  I went back and watched his last 17 plate appearances to try to nail down exactly what's lead to his sweet sweet .281/.373/.491 line.  

From a saber perspective, a lot of it has to do with his completely unsustainable .400 BABIP.  When that comes back down to earth, we're all going to notice how hard a time he has putting the ball in play in the first place.  Right now, he's whiffing on almost 40% of the pitches he swings at.  That's way worse than Adam Dunn and in fact there are no major league regulars this year who've chopped broccoli that often per swing.  Sample size caveats apply, but there's really nothing in his minor league numbers that suggests he'll ever be much better than what he's shown so far in that category.

This weakness manifests itself especially when it comes to hard breaking stuff.  He does an okay job laying off anything that looks like it might be a fastball headed low and away, especially early in the count.  But if it's a bender and in the zone, it gives him fits.  Jered Weaver rung him up 3 times by teasing with the fastball in unhittable locations and then spotting his off-speed stuff on the plate.  For what it's worth, he seemed to do somewhat better with lefty changes.  If that's a repeatable skill, that'd be huge help in making him tough on southpaws.

Star-divide

The good news is he knows how to work the count.  He's taken walks well above the league average so far, just as he has throughout his minor league career.  Watching his PAs it was clear Flowers had a very good idea of the strike zone and possessed a solid approach.  Pitchers generally tried to work him low and away and he very rarely chased, even late in the count.  This lead sometimes to taking the backwards K, but often enough he got himself into favorable counts when the pitcher couldn't induce bad swings.  He doesn't have an opposite field swing and seems to realize that he'll just roll that pitch over if he makes contact at all.

In fact overall his approach is on the money.  He's got a long, jerky swing and he's no Konerko when it comes to fastballs.  T-Flo needs one out over the plate or down and in and he does his best to wait for that pitch.  Whereas Paulie can cover pretty much any fastball anywhere and makes great contact with regularity, Flowers seems to realize he can only handle them in about half the strike zone and even then often misses.  So he's hyper-aggressive on those pitches that seem like his, but he's otherwise very patient.  If he can cluster his swing around the pitches he can hit hardest, he can keep his BABIP and ISO high enough to offset the whiffs.

But yeah, he's a fairly flawed hitter and there's a reason why he dropped off the prospect radar on most White Sox prospect lists so suddenly.  There was good reason the Sox spent last season trying to change up his swing.  "Pretty" is not the preferred nomenclature.  He gets good bat speed, but it's the result of a hitch, sticking his ass out and throwing his arms at the ball.  It's almost Uribean.  If some amount of minor league instruction could have added some efficiency of movement, the effect would have been substantial.  But I don't think he's that kind of player.  He's smart but not a graceful athlete.  Brute strength and intelligent compensation for his substantial weaknesses will take him as far as he goes.

So he's got raw tools and some promise.  But he's going to have to be very crafty to make this package work.  To me, the ultimate test will be what he can do against big right handed four seamers and legit sinkers.  Go back to those ABs against Weaver.  Most guys don't have that kind of command, so they're forced to throw a lot more fastballs in worse locations in hitters' counts.  If a good number of those aren't deposited in the bleachers, there just won't be enough dextral twirlers susceptible to his strengths to justify full time play.  Given the scouting consensus coming into the season, that's what we should expect to be true.  


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Comments

Display:

HOLLYWOOD SQUARES!

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 30, 2011 2:09 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

that's tom bergeron

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 30, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

http://video.adultswim.com/frisky-dingo/flowers-for-nearl.html

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 30, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Buppup!

It’s not robbing Peter to pay Paul — it’s bludgeoning Peter to death, and then realizing on the way back that you forgot to grab his wallet.

by SonOfCron on Aug 30, 2011 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

MASTAH CYLINDAH!

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Aug 30, 2011 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

he's being called a mouse

my only familiarity with the book prior to that title decision is the references from frisky dingo. so i checked what wikipedia said.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 30, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

hey, he got what he asked for. my actual point of reference:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914577/quotes?qt=qt0269632

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 30, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

SPOILERS AHEAD

Tdogg dies. But the retard gets laid!

by dr. lingerie on Aug 30, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I said I was a goof

not retarded.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

shit I don't know

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

it the mouse wasn't retarded, it's a pretty simplistic premise

Gee, this stuff makes a mouse “smart”, let’s feed it to the retard and see if he figures out how to use commas.

sideways smiley face

by TasteeFreeze on Aug 30, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

most prospect lists.

but not this one. go fuck yourselves, prospects “experts”.

by larry on Aug 30, 2011 2:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Nice title. I got it.

FTd. ;)

personally I think it will be more than a little bit
but I’m a goof. by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 1:46 PM EDT

by winningugly on Aug 30, 2011 2:27 PM CDT reply actions  

FYT

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't. I thought it was a reference to Waylon Flowers and Madam.

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 30, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

i wonder if mainstream writers ever read real analysis like this.

like, does cowley come in and read this, understand maybe 20% of it, and then conclude, ‘well, yeah, flowers sucks cause he isn’t aj.’

i guess my point is FJC.

by obnoxious american on Aug 30, 2011 2:55 PM CDT reply actions  

All of them.

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 30, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

great title

I live in a simpler place. I speak the language. ~ U-God

by e-gus on Aug 30, 2011 3:07 PM CDT reply actions  

She's choppin'....she's choppin'.....she's choppin'.....

A nod not only to SNL but to the Dana Carvey standup show that was once a staple of Comedy Central’s lineup.

Sustainable? No. But is it fun to watch in a season where offensive competence is hard to come by? Yes. Right now, I would rather watch T-Flo, bad swing and all, drill balls into the gap than watch AJ hit the first pitch he sees to the second baseman.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Aug 30, 2011 3:43 PM CDT reply actions  

oh yeah i'm enjoying the Flowers Power fo sho

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 30, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

In many ways

Flowers is the offensive antithesis of AJ. For contact rate, power, plate discipline, pitches they hit well…they end up on opposite ends of the spectrum.

by 3E8 on Aug 30, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

When did this become about AJ?

He’s not the fucking gaping hole at DH or in CF. Fer Chrissakes.

personally I think it will be more than a little bit
but I’m a goof. by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 1:46 PM EDT

by winningugly on Aug 30, 2011 7:12 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

choppin' broccoliyuh!

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 30, 2011 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Love the title

And this is the first time I’ve heard a strike swing called chopping broccoli. Is that really common vernacular?

by justjc on Aug 30, 2011 3:44 PM CDT reply actions  

i believe dan patrick(?) was the SC anchor who reappropriated it from dana carvey's standup

woulda been mid-to-late 90’s? i’m just going on memory. i haven’t heard anyone call it that in years.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 30, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

apparently it was Kenny Mayne

if a random internet fun quiz can be trusted

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 30, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree with the assessment that .400 BABIP is unsustainable

In fact, Flowers is running pretty bad. He doesn’t always hit the ball, but when he does, it’s a scalding line drive. So his BABIP should be over .700. I can’t wait when his stats start to approach Dayan’s.

by Gentleman Jim on Aug 30, 2011 3:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Colin doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

you're welcome to do these too yknow

can’t teach a mouse new tricks i guess

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 30, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

please

you do a great job. I maintain you do every player I’m in love with.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

wouldn't want you to go without

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Aug 30, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do believe that Flowers can be an everyday catcher in the show

Never stopped believing. I think his contact rate will improve and I like his power. His minor league numbers are better than quite a few mlb catchers. Glad he kept his head in the game and didn’t mouth off.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Regarding Flowers

“You’re my boy blue!”

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 4:16 PM CDT reply actions  

+1

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Aug 30, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

This should become a regular feature....

Get crackin, greenhorn!

"His Load got Sloppy" Colintj

by DrEmilioLizardo on Aug 30, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

i want to sig all of it

Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

by blackoutsox on Aug 30, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

have at it

I would hope young Tyler’s journal doesn’t follow the book, as I’d like him to have a long and productive career on the South Side.

by asinwreck on Aug 30, 2011 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wonderful.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Aug 31, 2011 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Meanwhile, too bad the game isn't on the U tonight. Haven't had a G. Lopez Theater for a while...

And the rain is already near Ausora. May track north though.

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 30, 2011 5:23 PM CDT reply actions  

My ass is what? "Aurora"

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 30, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

OT: a great read for NBA fans. Not for discussion here. Ozzie Montana, I'm thinking of you!

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6899683/meet-your-new-nba-owners

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 30, 2011 5:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Scioscia + Cooper = WS in 2012

book it.

"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 30, 2011 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

S-E-L-L

H-I-G-H.

My serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations.

LET’S GO YOU WHITE SOX!!!!!

by ballyb on Aug 30, 2011 6:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Interesting piece from those constantly on the Twins nuts

link

Not a lot has been said but there were those who felt, "OMG the twins will have a payroll over $100 million and full stadium how will anyone ever compete???

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 6:15 PM CDT reply actions  

SSS

My serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations.

LET’S GO YOU WHITE SOX!!!!!

by ballyb on Aug 30, 2011 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

uh huh

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

This:

It may be time to scrap that strikes-and-defense approach. What we learned this year is how much the Twins relied on Mauer and Morneau. And if they don’t return to their previous levels, this is a franchise that has a lot of rebuilding in front of it. None of the younger players on the team project as stars and the farm system isn’t highly rated. The new riches were spent carelessly in 2011.

I’m trying to find a silver lining here, but I don’t think three extra days of fundamentals drills are going to solve the Twins’ problems.

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 30, 2011 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

huh?

what are you looking at?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Aug 30, 2011 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Better question, what is Mark Gonzalez looking at?

Humber’s clearly having problems, but not 8 run first problems.

And I need to verify my shit better.

by Titan52 on Aug 30, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see what I did.

No more twitter sourcing for me for while.

by Titan52 on Aug 30, 2011 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is this the GT?

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Aug 30, 2011 6:54 PM CDT reply actions  

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