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After explanation, Guillen has some explaining to do

Adam Dunn is being used to prove a point, but what is it?

Yes, Ozzie Guillen still wants to know where he stands for next season before an answer is required. No, he still hasn't done much to deserve such a courtesy.

Before anybody makes a decision, though, I'd hope they'd thoroughly explore Guillen's defense of his managing during Saturday's game. This one sidebar gets to the heart of Guillen's fatal errors in 2011, and it doesn't sound like he's all that interested in making corrections going forward:

The boos may have been the loudest when [Adam Dunn] struck out in the ninth inning with two men on and no outs.

The fans also were upset because Guillen didn’t pinch-hit for him with left-hander Tony Sipp pitching. Dunn is hitting .037 against lefties.

‘‘I thought about it, but he’s making $14 million a year,’’ Guillen said. ‘‘He has to earn it.

‘‘The reason we brought him here is to hit with men on base. That’s a lot of money to pinch-hit for. A lot of people were blaming me. No, blame him. He didn’t do the job today.’’

I keep using the word "negligence," because this is what this is. Everybody in the ballpark knew it was wrong for Dunn to hit. Guillen knew it was wrong for Dunn to hit. But nevertheless, Guillen sent Dunn to the plate to ... make a point? I guess?

Star-divide

Even then, I'm not sure what the point is, unless it's to underscore how bad of a roster Kenny Williams gave him. The problem is that Williams admitted Dunn and Rios weren't cutting it ... in late July.

‘‘Here’s what I told Ozzie: Do not worry about the size of the contracts,’’ Williams said. ‘‘Just worry about putting the players out there on a given day that can win. The size of the contract is not Ozzie’s problem. It’s not [chairman] Jerry’s [Reinsdorf] problem. It’s not the coaches’ problem. That’s my problem.

‘‘Put the players on the field that can win. I don’t give a darn if one guy is making $400,000 and the other guy is making $12 million.’’

There's one possible defense of Guillen, and that's if Williams is engaging in doublespeak, providing him different instructions than the ones he gave through the media. I don't think that's likely, because Guillen doesn't have incentive to provide cover to a guy he doesn't want around.

So let's assume that Williams will fall on the sword for any veteran benchings. That means that a month and a half after he was given instruction to put the best players in important situations, Guillen admitted he used contract size to determine the course -- and that means he's doing the opposite of what he was told. People who want to keep their jobs usually make an effort to fulfill assigned objectives, don't they?

I'm just glad he confessed, because otherwise we'd only have a strong circumstantial case to fall back on, with such evidence as:

  • Letting Dunn hit against Sipp (Sept. 10).
  • Pinch-hitting Dunn for Brent Lillibridge (Aug. 31).
  • Never pinch-hitting for Dunn in non-blowouts.
  • Never pinch-hitting for Rios in non-blowouts.

But now that Guillen has essentially admitted that he doesn't manage to win the game when it involves Dunn and Rios, it makes it a whole lot more convenient to address this problem in the future. Hopefully Jerry Reinsdorf will file this one away.

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Like I said before...

…it seems to me that Guillen is doing a nice effort to get himself fired.
He used to be a better manager that usually put in the roster players that make this team win. Today’s Guillen would have never brought in a relatively inexperienced Jenks (Only 6 career saves) to close a game during a play-off like he did in 2005. Where is that fearless Guillen? This year many things seem to go wrong for the WhiteSox and that includes its manager’s bad decisions. He says he want to stay for the next 20 years, but his actions speak of something else. Is there anything we don’t know maybe? So many obvious bad decisions to prove a point? Which point? That he is a bad manager? Who would do that? I still like Guillen but he’s been erratic this year. I think maybe he needs some of his usual tirades of insults and bad words so we can understand him. That’s about the only area he has improven this year. He is a more tamed beast. He is almost boring.

by JofpGallagher on Sep 12, 2011 6:26 AM CDT reply actions  

Ozzie is tanking it.

I see that now – was tough to admit it. For this reason he needs to go.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Sep 12, 2011 7:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Enough with this passing of the buck b.s.

Someone with this club, be an adult, please.

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 12, 2011 7:48 AM CDT reply actions  

legally speaking

he has a heck of a lot more culpability than mere negligence.

by larry on Sep 12, 2011 8:10 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

i suppose it depends upon what you think guillen's intentions are.

i’d say this is at least reckless. he knows the risk (dunn is almost certainly going to not provide a favorable offensive outcome) but goes ahead anyway; however, he doesn’t actually intend anyone to get “hurt” (define that however you want; doesn’t actually want to lose is one way).

i’m sure there are some out there who would argue that ozzie is intending to lose by batting dunn there and that would obviously be a higher level of culpability.

it’s not negligence because ozzie certainly knows what dunn hits against lefties and knows the likely result.

by larry on Sep 12, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

malfeasance?

Sabermetrics hurt my head, just give me the facts.

by CATDADDY47 on Sep 12, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

How about Fargo?

“I’m a police officer from up Brainerd investigating some malfeasance.” – Officer Marge Gunderson (Fargo -1996)

"Alex is our best option right now." - Ozzie Guillen answering the media regarding Alex Rios continually batting clean-up (8/31/11)

by tailgater on Sep 12, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

affray?

ozzie has committed affray on my brain.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Sep 12, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

seidman always does good work.

and i’d like to thank adam dunn for making me pause when i read that MB hasn’t seen a decline in skill and "It’s tough to imagine a pitcher like this suddenly turning into a pumpkin. "

by larry on Sep 12, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

i couldn't believe it when he let dunn hit and pinch hit for de aza.

de aza has done nothing but hammer the ball since the first day he’s been here and had a couple of doubles saturday. ozzie is terrible and needs to go. If reinsdorf doesn’t see that then he must be blind.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 12, 2011 8:44 AM CDT reply actions  

Guillen v. Williams

In a microcosm, this has to map back to the Thome non-re-signing. Bigger picture, I wonder if Guillen has much of any use for the “big lug” type of hitter. When Williams indulged him with the Kotsay dh committee last year and judged it a failure, I’m thinking Guillen didn’t think it was a failure in principle, just in its execution, so he might have seen Dunn as a step backward. Williams thought otherwise. Overall, it seems like a lightning rod for the tensions between the two.

by tommyjoepeters on Sep 12, 2011 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

They're two guys with (what seem to be) fairly different philosophies.

If they didn’t both have such enormous ego’s, that wouldn’t be such a bad thing.

by Bent Over Beckham on Sep 12, 2011 11:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

It does seem to center on big lug types

apart from questions about how Rios has been used. But the real problem is that KW was being passive-aggressive in “indulging” Ozzie with the KotsayDH thing. So now that we’re seeing passive-aggressive game management seemingly to spite Kenny, arguably costing a division win, JR needs to step up and be gone with both of them.

"Hawk Harrelson: Annoying even the hearing impaired": Teahenny Penny paraphrasing Chisoxfan1473

by NorthSidePaulie on Sep 12, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ozzie is either trying to get ousted

or it’s his FU to Kenny.

Even I feel sorry for Done in that situation, where he is doomed to fail and has to tolerate yet another round of boos. And then his manager points the finger of blame at him.

"Alex is our best option right now." - Ozzie Guillen answering the media regarding Alex Rios continually batting clean-up (8/31/11)

by tailgater on Sep 12, 2011 9:08 AM CDT reply actions  

Ozzie must go!!

Whether he is trying to get fired or not, Ozzie is doing a horrible job. For all the reasons Jim has stated Ozzie has cost the Sox 5-10 games. He is the biggest fraud in baseball. Please Jerry toss us a bone and let Ozzie go!!

by soxfan50 on Sep 12, 2011 10:05 AM CDT reply actions  

he's definitely playing games with the front office

putting their “big money acquisition” on display to get booed and embarrassed after another game of futility.

seems he wont manage until he gets his money. and if the white sox dont re-up him before his deal expires while shelling out this big money to guys like dunn and rios he is just going to tank his way to another team

The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists

R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"

by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Sep 12, 2011 10:48 AM CDT reply actions  

Childish men playing child's games

The White Sox aren’t the only ones. Buck Martinez’ FU to the Orioles’ front office is writing Vlad the Impaled in the clean-up spot all season. He also makes his point by putting Gregg on the mound to “close” (ie. lose) games.

"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three-run homers."

by ThreeRunHomer on Sep 12, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

buck showalter.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 12, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

He'll always be Martinez to me.

"The key to winning baseball games is pitching, fundamentals, and three-run homers."

by ThreeRunHomer on Sep 12, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

they can't get rid of him

he keeps the club relevant, always in the news etc. he gives the club a high profile.

by hoodlight on Sep 12, 2011 11:28 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

winning keeps the club relevant.

if he’s stopping the team from winning, everything else he may provide doesn’t matter.

by larry on Sep 12, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

correct

He is a high profile manager and always will be. He does draw media attention, but of course that is only a good thing as long as he helps the team win. I really have no idea what is going to happen to him. I think I would still be surprised overall if he is let go. But that is just me.

by 815Sox on Sep 12, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sox Future

Just let Ozzie go and hire a manager I can understand. Designate Dunn and Williams for assignment (I know you can’t do that to Williams But we can try)

by R.Feller on Sep 12, 2011 11:48 AM CDT reply actions  

I totally agree

we need to hire someone that I can understand. I am sick of guessing what my manager is saying. Imagine what trouble the players have understanding him. This is Ozzie’s biggest downfall.

by Rhubarb on Sep 12, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ozzie better learn to speak "Merican!

Him having a Venezuelan accent is not his biggest downfall

I am not sure if I stepped on a whoosh trap, but I am sure he is able to convey the message he needs to when it comes to talking to his players. He never appears to struggle getting a message out to the media, why would it be any different from the clubhouse.

Plenty of reasons to be upset with Ozzie, him having an accent due to being from a foreign country is not one of them.

by 815Sox on Sep 12, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

DFA Dunn?

After one bad season, after a career of consistency and still be on the hook for all his cash. How could that be a good idea in any possible way?

by 815Sox on Sep 12, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Paniagua has already been said.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Sep 12, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

You have to DFA Adam Dunn because he is white and can't understand Ozzie

if we fire Ozzie then Dunn can hit dingers again. If we don’t fire Ozzie we have to DFA Dunn but if we DFA Williams who could translate?

by Rhubarb on Sep 12, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think we should demote Ozzie to AAA, maybe even AA

Give him a year to sort things out and bring him back up next year for the stretch run

by joewho112 on Sep 12, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

True, Cora can speak better English

Ozzie can work on his pinch hitting calls in the minors and provide the motivation we all know him for in August 2012 when it is truly needed. We don’t need intelligible motivation in April.

by Rhubarb on Sep 12, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Camp Cora next year should include some Rosetta Stone sessions

I’m sure if Ozzie tried harded he could learn the difference between past perfect and pluperfect tenses. If only he wasn’t so lazy and shiftless

by joewho112 on Sep 12, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

How many foreign languages do you speak fluently and without an accent?

I am sure its several… Spanish, Flemish and maybe Mandarin Chinese?

by 815Sox on Sep 12, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

First of all, "paniagua" was already said.

Secondly, he could very well mean that he doesn’t understand why Ozzie does what he does, and he would like a manager whose philosophies and the way he deals with people make more sense.

In any event, it’s a one-off comment that mentions suggesting DFAing Dunn. It’s frustration speaking. Nothing to see here. Paniagua.

Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.

by Jim Margalus on Sep 12, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really do like Ozzie--

I just cannot understand a word he says—Has nothing to do with where he is from, he is just not understandable, and he chooses the weirdest times to negotiate his contract… Right when his players need to be up and playing well without any distractions, he wants an extention… no Manager in any business pulls that prank without putting his job on the line.

by R.Feller on Sep 12, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

What he's really thinking...

"Alex is our best option right now." - Ozzie Guillen answering the media regarding Alex Rios continually batting clean-up (8/31/11)

by tailgater on Sep 12, 2011 12:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Ozzie is gone.

And he knows it. If he were coming back, would he have thrown Dunn under the bus like that? Used those words?
Sigh.

Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?

by Chiburb on Sep 12, 2011 12:32 PM CDT reply actions  

we'll know if KW has any power left

if the white sox fire ozzie immediately after the team is officially eliminated from the division.

by larry on Sep 12, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

And so will begin "The Joey Cora Era"

"Alex is our best option right now." - Ozzie Guillen answering the media regarding Alex Rios continually batting clean-up (8/31/11)

by tailgater on Sep 12, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

So the same thing but without Ozzie's personality

I wouldn’t be surprised if Cora goes when Ozzie goes, actually I think that would be more likely.

by 815Sox on Sep 12, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be so sure

I wish I could be, I think he needs to go. And I was really hanging on to keeping him, but its gone way to far. I really wouldn’t be surprised if he stays and KW is pushed up the office.

by 815Sox on Sep 12, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aug 31 should have put the nail in Ozzie's coffin

These comments should bolt and weld it. Time to let him go Jerry.

by justjc on Sep 12, 2011 1:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Just wing de gay.

If joo don’t wing de gay the rest eez boolsheet.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Sep 12, 2011 5:41 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Ken Rosenthal
Rosenthal has a source familiar with the thinking of Ozzie Guillen who has recently dropped his predicted chances of the manager returning to 50-50.

An article on the same vain with a sorta Machiavelli theory.

If anything, Reinsdorf would be doing Guillen a great favor by allowing him to leave for the Marlins. Since so many White Sox have so little trade value, a similar cast is likely to return in 2012.

Link here

Haha!…it would be interesting seeing Guillen trying to figure out how to compete against the Phillies and their pitching stars and the always successful Braves…. and the Mets are not easy prey, they have a big budget, and with Alderson fixing Minaya’s mess they will return to be competitive soon enough….and The Nationals upcoming and current myraid of talent (Harper, Strasburg, Ramos, Desmond, Werth, Zimmermann (both of them), etc)…. yeah Guillen, you and Hanley will have a nice one there.

by JofpGallagher on Sep 12, 2011 6:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, the Tigers are pussies,

as are the Yankees, BoSox, Rays, and Rangers. And the Twins have been hacks for years. Yep, that National League is sure loaded compared to the American League. Managing in any division, in any league, is tough. That’s why there are about 32 MLB managerial jobs in the world with about 100,000 people chasing them.

"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!

by winningugly on Sep 13, 2011 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I meant that I see the chances the White Sox have to win the very winnable AL Central

greater than the chance the Florida Marlins have to defeat the Phillies, Braves, Mets, etc. And yes, it seems to me that AL Central is weaker than the NL East

by JofpGallagher on Sep 13, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

at least ozzie would be used to managing a club with a terrible farm system.

one of the few that’s probably worse than the white sox’. of course, loria ain’t JR.

by larry on Sep 13, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

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