'Moneyball' resurfacing catches Williams at bad time
Maybe Kenny Williams' performance as a general manager is entirely dependent on the state of Moneyball.
Michael Lewis' book took the baseball world by storm when it came out in 2003, and Lewis positioned Williams against Billy Beane as one of the many rubes out there for the swindling. And now that the movie is on the cusp of its theatrical release, Williams finds himself in another major slump.
But in between, Williams has had a leg up on Beane. The White Sox won two divisions to Oakland's one since 2004, and one of Williams' teams took home a World Series trophy. Postseason success always found a way to elude those otherwise rock-solid Oakland teams of the early 2000s.
I think the chief lesson here is that Williams needs to stay as far away from Moneyball as possible, as well as all the players involved. Almost every player in the book that Williams dealt with fizzled out.
Roll call!
Royce Ring: Beane's draft room celebrated when the White Sox opted for a left-handed reliever out of San Diego State with the 18th pick in the 2002 draft, because that allowed them to take Joe Blanton. Williams didn't appear to take the selection too seriously, because he dealt Ring to the Mets for Roberto Alomar just one year and 26 days after drafting him.
Jon Adkins: That's all it cost Beane to acquire Ray Durham from the White Sox in an incredibly lopsided trade. Oddly enough, Williams had a better reason for this trade than he did in drafting Ring -- he bet that upcoming changes to the CBA would eliminate draft-pick compensation, whereas Beane thought he would be able to get both an upgrade to his infield, and a couple of picks after the season. Sure enough, Durham played his dependable brand of second base, and no changes were made to the CBA. Williams found himself on the wrong end of what Beane called the "F-ckin' A" trade.
Nick Swisher: The White Sox had their sights on Swisher, but the A's took him with their first selection, two picks before the Sox took Ring. Williams eventually got his man, and we know what happened there.
Mark Teahen: The A's drafted him in the supplemental round with the 39th overall picked, and talked him up as guy with a great plate approach and the possibility to turn into another Jason Giambi. Teahen didn't stand much of a chance of meeting the hype, falling well short of All-Star status and settling into a major-league utility role ... until Williams traded for him, signed him to a three-year deal and named him the third baseman of the future. That move didn't work out, and Williams was forced to waste Edwin Jackson's trade potential by dumping Teahen's contract on Toronto in July.
Williams did save face in a major way later in the book with the Chad Bradford trade, although Lewis didn't seem to give him much of a chance.
Lewis framed the acquisition of Bradford, which took place after the 2002 season, as a coup for Oakland. Bradford's unorthodox delivery produced outstanding numbers in the minors, and even though he bounced between Charlotte and Chicago over a three-year period, Beane thought his organization could make Bradford's mid-80s fastball work in the big leagues. Sure enough, Bradford pitched well for the A's, and went on to appear in 561 games over 12 years.
But Williams got a pretty good return -- catcher Miguel Olivo. Lewis didn't think much of Olivo, who was struggling in Double-A as a 21-year-old when Beane dealt him. But when he repeated the level in Birmingham, his career took off, and he built up his stock enough over the next two seasons that Williams was slammed for trading him to Seattle in 2004, with Jeremy Reed and Mike Morse for Freddy Garcia and Ben Davis.
Still, Olivo is outnumbered by a 4-to-1 margin when it comes to this cast of 2002 characters, and with Williams facing a reduced payroll in the upcoming offseason, he's going to have to play the odds a little better than that.
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i tell you what, you take away zito and mulder and hudson and then let's see how you do.
/hawk
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
Turns out he was kind of correct, right?
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 16, 2011 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
no.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
Pretty much this.
If you take away any team’s top three pitchers, they’re going to have a rough time competing.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
konerko is my second favorite pitcher.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
by BuehrleMan on Sep 16, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Hence "Pretty much this".
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
they still had the great scott hatteburg
fuck the a’s.
by obnoxious american on Sep 16, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Heard Cowley coming in (humor is always appreciated)
The one thing I did like that he said was him pointing to KW’s successful strategy of restraint in the media (a lesson learned) and how its allowed Ozzie to not only hang himself but swing public sentiment against him. If Ozzie’s press secretary himself can see that it doesn’t look good for ole Oz.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
i know fewer people check the fanposts,
but the BMO site is back up and running
"Rhubarb, if you wouldn’t mind, ram your taint into your monitor as hard as you can." - joewho112
other non-moneyball players from the 2002 draft that are white sox related.
brandon mccarthy (a steal from the 17th round), sergio santos (dbacks), jesse crain (twinks) and of course the aforementioned jeremy reed.
Denard Span as well.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
well, if we're going to include players who never were in the organization but played the white sox, that's going to be a long list.
complete list, please.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Sep 16, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
i was looking for everyone that every played the white sox as well as those that are/were in the org.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Sep 16, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
now why would i want to do that?
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Sep 16, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
we should have taken matt cain.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Sep 16, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
i don't like that bradley pitts
too much acting
by hoodlight on Sep 16, 2011 11:53 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
have you even boiled that denim?
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
boiled mine yesterday
"There's too many (bleeping) guys on the computer. It's simple. I say that. Pete Rose never watched a computer. Rod Carew never did. All those hitters, they go out and see the ball, hit it and move on." - Ozzie
by usualsuspect on Sep 17, 2011 4:09 AM CDT up reply actions
to be honest? i'll take williams career over beane's at this point.
show me the ring billy? where in the fuck is the ring?
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
how do you think beane would have done with the sox organization?
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
this its Sox West
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
I would like to see what Beane could do with a large payroll.
Im guessing he does alright.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
sure. that's my thought. with some more dough, how might he have exploited the inefficiencies?
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
it may be that, like KW, he's past it.
both had nice runs. maybe they were lucky runs, maybe they were skill, maybe they were assistants and other personnel. maybe all that and more.
i’m more with MM. i would have like to have seen what beane could have done in the early 2000s with more money. now? not so sure i’d want him to GM my team.
maybe...
if he had more money he might’ve thrown big money contracts at over the hill or over-rated guys. Money does funny things to people.
"keep a weather eye on the horizon, dearest captain of the douche canoe" - BJ
by Shoeless In SC on Sep 16, 2011 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
why wouldn't you want him to GM?
Is it because others have incorporated the saber style or is it something else that you dont like?
Where the white women at?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M
by parkernutws05 on Sep 16, 2011 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
i thought it was clear.
the competition catches up to you. and maybe passes you. you can keep innovating. or you can stagnate. it’s not any different than in any other field.
Billy Beane is the most over rated GM in baseball history.
How many GMs even get a MENTION in a movie, not to mention an ENTIRE MOVIE about them? Compare that number to how many GMs have never won a World Series. Heck, it would pad Beane’s stats if he had even figured out how to LOSE a world series!
i always enjoyed the canard that beane is terrible because he never won a world series.
i’m glad people are getting a chance to re-hash all of them. it’s like 2004 all over again. how about those weapons of mass destruction? that george bush is a liar! amiright?
terrorist!
If you don’t support Bush, you don’t support the troops! If you don’t like it than you can just get out!
I know
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know.
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
I did not say terrible...
… I said over rated.
by LorenzoBandini on Sep 16, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
the guy consistently had payrolls half or two thirds of the average major league payroll. and managed to put winning teams on the field for a decade. if you think that’s something that is mundane, ordinary and otherwise not meriting some interest, you’re fucking nuts. if any GM was going to get a book written about his club, it was his. i sure as shit wanted to know what the heck he was doing.
it also helps that brad pitts is the spitting image of beane
White Sox 2011: The season of extraneous body parts.
yeah its impossible to argue with this
that’s why I want to see him with a large payroll. I was one that argued its not terribly hard for teams like the Twins to start fucknut decisions after having money to spend. To an extent the Sox did too. Would Beane keep to his path? Would he focus on the best that saber money could buy? Would he continue to ignore hometown favorites when he actually had a choice to keep them? I want to know. Go to the Cubs.
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
5 seasons without a winning record.
Sounds like the stuff of legend to me! Plus, no one is KEEPING him in Oakland.
by LorenzoBandini on Sep 17, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you've met your mentor.
Trying to score runs with Juan Pierre as your leadoff hitter is like trying to suture a wound in a moving car. You might still be successful -- but why make it so hard on yourself?
because a 3-7 game series is so indicative of a GM's abilities
Joe Buck is just White Noise to me. It’s like the game is being called by a CD of whale songs. - mechanical turk

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