Who's in charge of the White Sox: An organizational flow chart
by Jim Margalus on Sep 5, 2011 5:30 AM CDT
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Whether it's a cause or an effect, a lot of White Sox are starting to point fingers while watching their season spin down the toilet. Amid all the yelling, it once again raises the question -- just who exactly is in charge of whom?
In most organizations, the players report to the coaches and the manager, who reports to the general manager, who reports to the owner. Thanks to Jerry Reinsdorf's family atmosphere, it's not that simple with the White Sox. And amid all the yelling, it has become even more complicated.
Here's what we've discovered in just this past week:
*Kenny Williams got into a shouting match with Greg Walker over the stagnation of Gordon Beckham, but didn't fire him, and Ozzie Guillen wanted nothing to do with it. Walker said he'll decide at the end of the year whether he'll come back.
*Jake Peavy said that he hasn't been the same since his four-inning relief outing against Washington in June, but Don Cooper disagreed.
*In the Q&A thread with Brett Ballantini, he offered that Jerry Reinsdorf is as much the reason behind A.J. Pierzynski's return as Kenny Williams was -- maybe even more so.
*Ballantini, Barry Rozner and The Score 670's Matt Spiegel have openly stated that Joe Cowley is doing Guillen's bidding. In a shouting match with Spiegel on Friday, Cowley said all the other baseball writers in town were more concerned with kissing Kenny Williams' ass for quotes.
*During the broadcast of Sunday night's game, Guillen referred to Reinsdorf as a "father figure," which shouldn't surprise anybody since Joe Cowley said the same thing on the score in defense of his cries for attention. But Guillen also used that phrase to describe Paul Konerko, which suggests his daddy issues go deeper than I thought.
This new wealth of information changed my perception of the franchise's hierarchy. So below the jump, I've constructed a flow chart to figure out the pecking order, and it's almost as convoluted as the last one. This is a living document, so please let me know if I missed anything.
(The dotted line represents management in speculation only. The gray area represents Donny Lucy.)
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jim, this is brilliant, and sad, a couple notes
greg walker has no input in this diagram, but i assume that’s because neither ozzie or kenny has direct control over him?? what about bi-directional arrows between konerko and walker?
peavy doesn’t have an input either, but again, perhaps you’re also making the assumption that no one is in control of peavy, of which there is evidence. actually, i see in your diagram how peavy is above coop and herm, you may as well include ozzie.
if cowley and ozzie are indeed using each other, then there should be bi-directional arrows between ozzie and cowley.
this is brilliant..
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Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Sep 5, 2011 5:46 AM CDT reply actions
Thanks for the input. Updated the chart.
Walker-Konerko: I dropped the line when I had to elevate Konerko to father figure. That line is restored, and I also put Konerko as the input to Walker, based on my very sound speculation that Konerko hogs the hitting-coach resources for himself, which explains why he gets stronger and everybody else struggles.
Added an arrow from Peavy to Ozzie, but kept Peavy one notch below Ozzie, just because Ozzie has exercised the ability to pull Peavy from a game before he wanted to, but I didn’t think it was strong enough to warrant an arrow.
Cowley and Ozzie are using each other, but Ozzie is still something without Cowley, whereas Ozzie stories are the only thing that Cowley does that really gets him noticed.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Sep 5, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
this is grand
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Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Sep 5, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Ozney
In addition there should be a box for Ozney with a dotted line to Kenny or Jerry or ???
dotted line to the players
Jim Thome sponsor(s) this page.
Highly underrated, Mark Kotsay became the best defensive designated hitter in American League history in 2010.
by onlysoxfaninbasel on Sep 5, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I finally understand the thinking behind the DHydra.
White Sox 2011: The season of extraneous body parts.
Damn! And, I thought
Don Lucy was going to fix all this.
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
I wonder if crickets can boo.
Why buy the cow when the milk is kinda bitchy?
by SkanchoDanza on Sep 5, 2011 10:40 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
you forgot roger bossard.
and southpaw.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
yeah, that seems about right.
"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck
Oy. It's really funny, but it would be funnier if it weren't so true
To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch
by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Sep 5, 2011 10:17 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
Where's Jerry Owens?
Ranting about all sorts of things that are on my mind in 140 characters or less
by chisoxfan1473 on Sep 5, 2011 10:30 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
At the very least Paulie and Walker should be connected
with a dotted line.
"MY NAME IS YOANIS CESPEDEZ YOU KILLED MY FATHER" WHAT!
by winningugly on Sep 5, 2011 10:37 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Oops.
I lost that connection when I had to bump Konerko up after the “father figure” comment.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Sep 5, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
This high school drama has reached its idiocy point
Kenny told Daryl that Greg wasn’t being nice to Gordon and then Greg got all pissed and told Ozzie. You know Ozzie and Kenny just like pretend to get along because they see each other at the lunch table. Ozzie didn’t tell anything to Kenny, but he did talk sh*t about him to Joe and Joe was all like standing up for Ozzie in front of us and we were just like….WHAT-EVER.
I paid way too much money to see 20+ games at the ballpark. I was “All In” (well as much as I could afford). Last night’s game was just sad to watch. Hit after hit was just painful. Who the hell are all these new guys? I f*cking hate Alex Rios right now. Every time he comes to the plate I wish I could yell out loud “You’re a bum” just like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt9hRCthV8E
Dunn better pick up a baseball bat everyday in the off season. I don’t give a sh*t if it’s as awkward for him as holding my giant shlong but he better do something in the off season other than taking a vacation. All he did this season was take a vacation in the bench.
I’m rambling. I only had one point. I’m not sure what it was. I just know that all this petty sh*t needs to get cleared up in a few short months or I’m done paying for baseball.
by GoatsAreNotCows on Sep 5, 2011 10:46 AM CDT reply actions
everyone realizes that "all in" is a gambling analogy, right?
don’t gamble if you’re going to miss the money.
It's ironic how they went "all in", because they won't let you take some money back off the poker table,
yet the Sox did that with Jackson/Teahen. Seems like all in would preclude removing payroll, only adding to your bet.
Oh well, Zack Stewart still sounds like all in to me!
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
We are through the looking glass here, people
OK, here’s what we’ve got: the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people under the supervision of the reverse vampires …
by Billy Charlesbois on Sep 5, 2011 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
He's the head of the spaceology department at the Correspondence College of Tampa!
What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!
Woah, I left on Friday praying for a streak
Guess I should have been more specific. The Sox got stomped like a Narc at a biker rally and the whole organization is falling apart.
Love the chart, bit get rid of that Cubs baloon please. Dotted line or no, we should give Hahn a chance before they do. Time for Kenny (and Ozzie) to go and for Hahn to go Solo.
We want Rick to shoot first?
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
family atmosphere?
Dysfunctional family perhaps. The worst part is: if you’re Jerry, can you fire your kids?
Hope so, or next year ain’t gonna be any better.
Furious George! What happened to your beautiful face?!?
by AirTrafficAJ on Sep 5, 2011 11:49 AM CDT via iPhone app reply actions
Sun-Times beat sweetener story, January of 2012:
“Ozzie and Kenny: We’re happy! And we mean it!”
CHICAGO – After a fence-mending off season, White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen and General Manager Kenny Williams say they are ready to tackle the 2012 campaign with renewed energy, after the disappointment of 2011.
“Jerry come to me, he say cut out the (bleep). That man, he like a father to me,” Guillen said.
Williams was reportedly hours away from being named President of Baseball Operations when Rick Hahn suddenly and unexpectedly signed a three year deal to run the Cubs organization."
“I’ve always believed Mr. Reinsdorf….”
What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!
You are some type of wizard.
I’m sure we will be referencing this in a few months.
Furious George! What happened to your beautiful face?!?
First test passed:
Ozzie Guillen wanted to give Paul Konerko some rest. PK said no. He told Ozzie he wants to play both games today.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
Excellent Jim
One thing though, and let me quote you:
Guillen referred to Reinsdorf as a “father figure,” which shouldn’t surprise anybody since Joe Cowley said the same thing on the score in defense of his cries for attention. But Guillen also used that phrase to describe Paul Konerko, which suggests his daddy issues go deeper than I thought
As a Latinoamerican myself, even as a fellow Venezuelan as Guillen, I would like to explain you that in our culture, we tend to “familyzed” our human relations. When we use the phrase “He is like a Father to me”, generally all we are doing is giving the highest praise we can give to a friend, co-worker, boss etc. We can give the “Like a Father Figure” title to many friends in the same way the Queen of England gives Knighthoods.
Guillen refers to younger players as “kids”. He is trying to be a “Father Figure” to them, but not the father that has children and raises them. Just a respect issue. Latinoamerican also gives the titles of “He is like a brother to me” to their best friends. I use this all the time, and even in the Anglo-Saxon culture you can see it.
Latinoamerican’s family values are sacred. The highest we have. First God, and almost immediately, family. We like to hand out “titles” of fathers, brothers, sisters, etc to our friends to elevate them high, and we do this probably with higher frequency than many other cultures.
I think Jerry is in charge. I think he has a family style management where he likes to be “consulted” for big decisions (Like firing a manager or coach) that affect his “family”. I think that is the only reason Guillen is still with us. In other circumstances he would have been gone long ago. I have said this before, my money is that Guillen is going nowhere. However, I think Guillen is uncomfortable (KW is a stone in his shoe), and Guillen wants changes. A new atmosphere. Even if that implies he is going to another team. I think secretly he desires KW to go. This is my perception from sometimes unreliable sources (Press, blogs, etc). So, it is no more of what it is, an opinion.
by JofpGallagher on Sep 5, 2011 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Thanks for the perspective
That helps explain the Konerko part quite a bit.
I guess I’m concerned it’s more than just a saying, based on what Cowley said in one of his radio appearances — that Reinsdorf is a father figure in more than the general sense; that Guillen needs to know Reinsdorf still appreciates him, which is why he publicly entertains quitting or managing other teams, so he gets the response, “No, Ozzie, we still love you…”
I don’t know how many times Guillen can go to that well in a professional relationship, but I guess we’re about to find out, one way or another.
Whales! Squids! Sharks! They're everywhere! Hello, I am Poseidon! Now, when people told me I was crazy that thinly sliced roast beef would be a delicious fast-food option, I knew it was the greatest idea, and you can thank me later for Arby's.
by Jim Margalus on Sep 5, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe all Guillen is trying to do is
…a bit childish…. But Guillen has to be conscious this season is a mess, and he wants to ask the “father”, whether he is still his favorite… Like a child, who is the favorite of a parent, and suddenly gets a very bad grade, and comes home like a dog with his tail under his legs. Like the kid who just wants a “pat” in his back so he can think I am still dear in here.
What worries me here is that Guillen is doing a no-no, which is jumping on authority. Lately, I read a lot about Guillen “talking directly” Jerry with no (or fewer) mention to KW. Something appears to be broken, and that is a hard way to manage.
by JofpGallagher on Sep 5, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh, a Guillen acting out to get attention from his father?
Never heard that before.
"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd
by South Side Expat on Sep 5, 2011 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
this chart proves my worst suspicions
no one is navigating the boat or there are too many cooks in the kitchen. one thing is for sure, jerry drastically needs to put the fear of god into the players and coaches. they need to get a my way or the highway kind of guy to make these people fear for their jobs. hahn might be too much a part of the problem, any rebuttals to the contrary anyone?
I only ask that we stick to military analogies instead of boats or kitchens.
The policeman who jumps from a bridge to a plane is Detective John McClane, a.k.a. Bruce Willis. He’s just the star of the whole movie series and stuff, no big deal or anything. -Cruiser
by Uribe Down on Sep 5, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
On that note
when does the reading club start?
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
this is both funny and tremendously sad for how accurate it seems
everyone with “power” has some type of medium to circumvent each other. and paulie has his wisdom status in a good way. peavy has it too but uses it in a bad way. aj is a mix of both: he really shouldnt be the same “elite” tier as peavy and paulie but he seems to handle the day-to-day with great humility unlike peavy
and cooper is just there. doing his job but not liking the people who are supposed to make him look good at his job and cant get the people above him to comprehend that its the tools not necessarily the mechanic that is messing up
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Sep 5, 2011 3:33 PM CDT reply actions
Well, it's not quite the bristol stool chart...
"That might be how you roll at Camp Anawanna, Budnick. But where I come from, we only salute Old Glory." -moroots on May 23rd
by South Side Expat on Sep 5, 2011 4:58 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
So it's totally inaccurate?
The policeman who jumps from a bridge to a plane is Detective John McClane, a.k.a. Bruce Willis. He’s just the star of the whole movie series and stuff, no big deal or anything. -Cruiser
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