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Return to sender: White Sox trade Frasor back to Blue Jays

Jason Frasor never seemed to fit in during his two months with the White Sox, so it makes sense that the White Sox would trade him. And given that he spent his entire year in Toronto prior to his stint on the South Side, it makes sense that the Blue Jays might want him back.

So the White Sox continued their restless New Year's weekend by sending Frasor back from whence he came, trading him to the Toronto Blue Jays for right-handed pitchers Myles Jaye and Daniel Webb.

Compared to the two pitchers the Sox received for Carlos Quentin, you're not going to see either Jaye or Webb for quite a while. Jaye, 20, was selected in the 17th round of the 2010 draft, and only has 54 innings of rookie-ball pitching to his name.

Webb, who was drafted in the 18th round of the 2009 draft by the Jays, posted a 5.59 ERA over 18 games (12 starts) at A-ball Lansing. He struck out 51 over 66 innings wit a respectable 24 walks, but gave up 80 hits (including seven homers).

But as you'll see below the jump, both players were signed for well, well, well above slot, which makes them more interesting than the typical mid-second-day draft pick:

Star-divide

Here's some video of Myles Jaye:

Sorry -- here's Myles Jaye video.

And then some video of Daniel Webb:

Sorry, wrong Daniel Webb:

Up-to-date information from the major sources is scant, so we'll have to drill down deeper to less established places. Colin found this report of Jaye from JaysProspects.com. If nothing else, it notes that the Jays ponied up $250,000 in the 17th round, so this is kinda like the Sox spending other another team's money.

What’s good: Another young one, also only 19, he is a classic Blue Jays HS pitching prospect, tall, lanky and tons for room projection. He has smooth mechanics and delivers an 88-94 MPH fastball with ease. His low 80s slider looked real sharp at times, with hard biting downward action that saw a few swing and misses. He also looked quite athletic when covering first base, always a positive sign. He looked comfortable on the mound and knew what he was doing in the field.

What’s bad: As with a lot of young pitchers, controlling his pitches is his biggest weakness. He left his fastball up on several occasions, causing it to be hit hard. He didn’t always throw his slider for strikes or located it well enough to get the hitter to chase. He walks a few too many, but with time and learning how to pitch, that can be fixed.

Colin also tracked down a snippet from Jim Callis at Baseball America:

Toronto agreed to terms with 18th-round pick Daniel Webb on a $450,000 bonus. That ties for the second-highest bonus known after the 10th round so far this year, and is three times MLB’s recommended $150,000 maximum after the fifth round. Webb had the potential to go in the sandwich round as a Kentucky high school senior in 2008, but dropped to the Diamondbacks in the 12th round because of signability. The righthander turned down Arizona and attended Northwest Florida State JC this spring, where his fastball touched 94 mph. He did battle inconsistency with his secondary pitches and command.

Webb was originally drafted in the 12th round out of high school by the Diamondbacks and dropped that far due to well founded signability concerns. He went to JC, giving him the option to get back into the draft the following season. He's certainly more talented than the average 18th rounder.

JaysJournal.com ranked Webb as the 45th-best Toronto prospect -- which is funny, since the White Sox's 45th-best prospect is still Oney Guillen -- but the post has some interesting notes on Webb's backgrounding, including:

  • "His name is really listed as Robert McDaniel Webb in Baseball-Reference, so it’s odd that he is referred to as Daniel."

That's little too similar to Robert Meiklejohn MacDougal for my likes. But how about this?

That's Chicago Tough! Including the loss.

Gus points us to Webb's write-up in John Sickels' Baseball Prospect Book 2011:

The Jays drafted Webb in the 18th round in 2009, from Northwest Florida State Junior College. He has one of the best arms in the system, regularly clocked at 94-95 and hitting 97 at times. His slider and changeup both made some progress last year, but remain inconsistent. He had significant command issues in the New York-Penn League, and from a statistical point of viewthere isn’t much positive here. But the arm strength is there, and guys like this can take off suddenly. Grade C.

Comment 101 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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good. didn't want him anyway.

CUB FAN!

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Jan 1, 2012 12:58 PM CST reply actions  

thi

s

Dave Martinez woulda had that.

by Nordhagen on Jan 1, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Rebuilding

More of it!

"Lemonade was a popular drink back in the day and it still is.."

Gangstarr

by Big Daddy Kool on Jan 1, 2012 1:02 PM CST via Android app reply actions  

Makes sense.

There’s plenty of young relievers on the cusp of contributing to the major league roster. Dump 4 mil, get a couple young arms and give those guys a shot in the majors.

by polodude017 on Jan 1, 2012 1:04 PM CST reply actions  

ok

not bad dump some salary and pick up two arms, looks like everyone that was happy about coming to terms with frasor were right about his value

by Knoxfire30 on Jan 1, 2012 1:10 PM CST reply actions  

so... how's the salary picture looking for 2012 now?

are we still in trim mode? any possibility of signing any FA’s?

by ruffster on Jan 1, 2012 1:18 PM CST reply actions  

BR

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2011-roster.shtml

Still at 96 mil it looks like (plus the pre-arb guys). All depends on what Jerry has in mind for the opening day payroll.

by polodude017 on Jan 1, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

see Cots:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tK7uKP_MP8Unu0Mx46heFcg&output=html

we’re at 97.25 w/ no arb eligibles after ditching Frasor.

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Jan 1, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

How do you put Prince's symbol on the back of his uni?

How do you refer to his number? “The batter formerly known as Prince”?

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Jan 1, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

i'd love to see that.

it would totally one-up veeck with eddie gaedel.
“he was, by golly, the best darn funky purple midget who ever played big-league ball.”

by craigws on Jan 1, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for that.

You look at that and you can see why #56 was no longer interested in offering the hometown discount.

by LorenzoBandini on Jan 1, 2012 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

It's extremely early to tell

But I like what I see out of Myles Jaye, and seeing as Frasor was likely never going to be completely comfortable with the Sox it’s a very sensible trade.

by Can I Kick It? on Jan 1, 2012 1:30 PM CST reply actions  

Do you actually know anything about Jaye?

Or are you just looking at his stat line? Just curious as I haven’t really been able to find much on him, though his stat line and age make him at least mildly interesting.

by polodude017 on Jan 1, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Not a lot

I did some digging around after reading his stat line, and while there isn’t a ton to go on (there rarely is for an unproven HS kid), there’s reason enough for me to feel encouraged. At the least, I don’t think you’ll be able to argue that the Sox didn’t get enough out of this trade five years from now.

by Can I Kick It? on Jan 3, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

What did we lose?

Pierre at 7, Buehrle at 13, Quentin at 7 and Frasor at 3.5 million? Then we added about 5 million with Danks’ extension, right?
I like unloading Frasor…a lot. He didn’t do much for us and maybe this will free up money for Cespedes?

by jonmanster on Jan 1, 2012 1:30 PM CST reply actions  

Danks will make 8 mil in 2012.

Which is about what he would have made in arb, so there’s really no change there. Take a look at the link I posted above for BR. It’s a little more complicated than what you explained (some low salary guys coming off and some guys like Dunn and Alexei getting raises).

by polodude017 on Jan 1, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, good point

Forgot that his extension is backloaded big time. Yeah, our payroll is in pretty good shape. I just wonder how Sale and Viciedo do and if we will be lucky enough to see some improvement from Dunn and Rios.

by jonmanster on Jan 1, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

True

Dunn repeating his 2011 seems very unlikely unless he has simply lost it like Mark Wohlers did. Maybe Dunn is good for .220/17/65?

by jonmanster on Jan 1, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I am laughing myself silly at this.

If those are his splits I hope he’s only played in 100 games or less.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Jan 1, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

??

You think he will do better than that?

by jonmanster on Jan 1, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

if that is what he is doing over the year,

he won’t get to play for the whole thing.

by craigws on Jan 1, 2012 2:06 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, technically backloaded, I guess

because it shakes out as 8+4(14.25)=65/5yrs. Yellon thinks so, too.

But Imagine — not unreasonably — that Danks had won 10mm at arb this year, and then signed an in-season, 4-year extension with the White Sox for 55mm. Looking at it that way, the White Sox have deferred 2mm in 2012 dollars to be paid at a nominal 500k in each of the following four seasons.

I can see people, today, disliking this contract for Danks for one reason or another. And I can imagine GMs in the years going forward not wanting to trade for Danks for one reason or another.

A contract that is “backloaded” won’t be one of those reasons.

by Secret Chimp on Jan 1, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Flagged for "Yellon thinks so too".

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Jan 1, 2012 2:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

It's a reverse argument from authority.

I cite an “expert” not in support of my own argument, but as a reproach of another’s.

I think this puts Yellonian logic to its proper use, and I have many friends who are Sox fans.

Merry Y2KKKKKKKKKKKK.

by Secret Chimp on Jan 1, 2012 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

My mistake. I quit reading after I saw his name. BTW...

Do your Sox friends also think Ozzie didn’t know how to run a bullpen?
Hee.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Jan 1, 2012 5:16 PM CST up reply actions  

And don't do that again.

"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."

John Kenneth Galbraith

by Chiburb on Jan 1, 2012 3:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

The fuck?

I dig that every two years KW sees a need to churn his own account. BUY! SELL! BUY THE SAME! SELL IT AGAIN!

Does any GM look less certain of his choices than KW? Kenny has more buyer’s remorse than Kim Kardashian.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Jan 1, 2012 1:33 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

sinead has them beat easy.

"michael gilhaney is an example of a man that is nearly banjaxed from the principal of the atomic theory. would it astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?" ~~ sergeant pluck

by BuehrleMan on Jan 1, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for making my day.

I feel better.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Jan 1, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I was.

I would so go for a crack whore run, though.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Jan 1, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd

you magnificent bastard, you.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Jan 1, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Jim, the first Danny Webb video is fantastic.

Post rec’d. Still pissed at you for voting McGwire in, though. Prick.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Jan 1, 2012 2:03 PM CST reply actions  

Great trade! Who'd we get?

Will Clark lines aside, getting someone with a pulse for the low minors is a happy surprise given Kenny’s statement he wanted major-league ready talent this winter. Getting talent that might contribute to wins in the Post-Rios/Dunn era makes this a decent first day of 2012.

by asinwreck on Jan 1, 2012 2:28 PM CST reply actions  

Somewhat unrelated...

Viciedo is entering the final year of his 4 year deal. Does he have three years of arbitration after that? He doesn’t immediately go to FA does he? Not sure how the international signings work.

by polodude017 on Jan 1, 2012 3:18 PM CST reply actions  

Must have missed this.

What happens after this season then?

by polodude017 on Jan 1, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Most other players aren't making 2.5 mil per season pre-arb.

If his 4-year deal ends after this season, how is his salary determined for the next two seasons before he goes to arbitration?

by polodude017 on Jan 1, 2012 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

So I assume he will receive some small raises over the 2.5 mil he's making this season?

Not trying to beat this into the ground, just trying to understand the details.

by polodude017 on Jan 1, 2012 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

a player can sign a contract and still be under team control after the end of the contract. it's all about service time.

and i have to amend what i said above. like any other pre-arbitration player, his salary cannot be less than 80% of his prior year salary. so, in viciedo’s case, that would be $2M.

by larry on Jan 1, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

so it's fairly likely he signs a contract of some kind

after this season as long as he’s productive?

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Jan 1, 2012 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

so you think the Sox will just pay him $2.5M until arb?

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Jan 1, 2012 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

There is a 0% chance Boras lets him sign anything imo....

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Jan 1, 2012 8:24 PM CST up reply actions  

it's a little tough to say given that he has about 200 career plate appearances

and it’s not clear yet exactly what his service time means for arbitration timing, as we’ve discussed on here before. without a clear sense on the motivating factors for both sides, it’s hard to guess.

by larry on Jan 1, 2012 11:12 PM CST up reply actions  

looks like they're heading for a $105M or so payroll.

which i think was about the consensus on to where they needed to cut.

by larry on Jan 1, 2012 3:47 PM CST reply actions  

you're not worried they'll end up around $90M anymore?

So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.

by colintj on Jan 1, 2012 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Hard to see them trading Thornton or Crain now.

Would make more sense to possibly move them at the deadline once the front office has a better idea of what they have in a lot of these younger guys who will probably end up filling out the pen.

Anything is possible though…

by polodude017 on Jan 1, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Thornton I can still see

Since they stockpiled a crapload of lefties. They’re still short on the right-handed side.

by Jim Margalus on Jan 1, 2012 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

The TCQ name lives on at MLBTR.
It’s possible that the Padres could negotiate a very team-friendly two- or three-year deal with the Carlos Quentin before arbitration.

"That baseball is the smartest thing out on that field." —Hawk Harrelson

by mikecws91 on Jan 1, 2012 6:02 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

so larry do these two guys crack our prospect list now?

or are they too far out to be considered.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 1, 2012 7:17 PM CST reply actions  

John Sickels on Daniel Webb

from The Baseball Prospect Book 2011:

The Jays drafted Webb in the 18th round in 2009, from Northwest Florida State Junior College. He has one of the best arms in the system, regularly clocked at 94-95 and hitting 97 at times. His slider and changeup both made some progress last year, but remain inconsistent. He had significant command issues in the New York-Penn League, and from a statistical point of viewthere isn’t much positive here. But the arm strength is there, and guys like this can take off suddenly. Grade C.

by e-gus on Jan 1, 2012 8:38 PM CST reply actions  

Not bad

Good velocity, a couple years in the minors and BAM

by JPSoprano80 on Jan 1, 2012 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Ahhh

Gotta love the White Sox hair on Danny Webb.

RECENT BOX SCORES
ADAM DUNN DH/1B
7 1/3 1HR 2K
60 0/4 4K

by Chicago Pride 2005 on Jan 1, 2012 9:20 PM CST reply actions  

KW

Is gonna trade floyd for a PTBNL and a case of Big Hurt Beer. Then get fired.

RECENT BOX SCORES
ADAM DUNN DH/1B
7 1/3 1HR 2K
60 0/4 4K

by Chicago Pride 2005 on Jan 1, 2012 9:38 PM CST reply actions  

I feel like this is an excellent trade for the White Sox

Frasor is incredibly generic. Get a couple decent arms for him? I take it every time.

by Billy Ray Durham on Jan 2, 2012 1:38 AM CST reply actions  

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