Scouting stuff: an amateur attempt to figure out pitching, part 1
These posts would be almost totally lacking in actual data and evidence without Dave Allen, Bojan Koprivica and Trip Somers. There are more I've read since Pitch F/x was born and I could start a list, but it would be long and linkless since my brain's just pretty much shut down at this point.
Okay, so now is the time on South Side Sox when we talk pitching, pitchers and pitches. Since I have done and plan to do scouting profiles on Sox pitchers and opposition hurlers as 2012 winds it's way toward spring and then into the season, it seems like a good idea to talk about what I look at, how I think I know what I know and all that. This will totally skip mechanics as while I have some thoughts on that, I don't have actual evidence or good language to talk about. This is strictly about what happens once the ball leaves the pitcher's hand.
Fastball
The best place to start is with the most basic pitch, the one everybody has. Or a version of it, at least. I'm going to try to illustrate a few terms and basic concepts for the sake of clarity limiting the discussion to the heater. Now, when it comes to the fastball, I think everybody knows that velocity is a big deal. It's really that simple. Throwing hard is a substantial advantage that negates numerous other issues with the pitcher in question. To wit:
These graphs may seem a little weird. But the idea is that Dave has plotted what happened to different fastballs according to location, outcome and velocity. Negative runs is good. Positive is bad. And if .01 runs seems like a small number, consider that's on a per pitch basis. The course of 200 innings pitched runs in the neighborhood of 1750 fastballs (that's a round-ish number). At .01 runs per pitch, that's the difference between a 3.21 ERA and a 4.00 ERA. And that doesn't even take fully into account the synergistic effects. You'd be willing to bet a slider following a 97 mph fastball is better than one following 91 mph, right?
The takeaway is three-fold. First, I like charts and graphs. Second, above average velocity can solve a lot of problems. Third, you can undo all of that if you have no idea where the ball is going. In the top graph, the home plate runs from about -.5 to .5 feet, give or take a bit. Notice that's about where the colored lines start converging? In the bottom graph, the strike zone is marked by the horizontal lines. Same thing.
The last point explains at least some of Don Cooper's success. Think of guys like Matt Thornton and Edwin Jackson. Thornton is an obvious success story whose nickname Easy Heat makes it pretty clear what he's good at. But when he was with the Mariners organization, he couldn't hit the ocean with the broadside of a barn door. Then he moved to Chicago (thanks Joe Borchard!), learned a bit from Coop and eventually peaked as one of the very best relievers in the game relying almost solely on his incredible fastball. When he first got to the South Side, Coop didn't do too much more than point him in the direction of the plate.
After first learning to throw strikes rather than the alternative, Cooper further honed his skills such that Thornton developed legitimate command, or the ability to locate a pitch very near the intended target. That's in some contrast to control, which is just avoiding base on balls. The difference between command and control comes down to what's often referred to as stuff, or the quality of the pitches regardless of location. The quality of a pitch can be further broken up by velocity and movement. The more velocity and movement, the better the stuff, the less important exact location is in avoiding walks.
So, let's go back to Edwin Jackson, who has always had great stuff and in particular excellent fastball velocity. Under Cooper, Jackson started 30 games between two seasons and dropped his walk rate a full walk per nine innings. In doing so, he moved from his crappy career walk rate and actually manage to walk fewer than average hitters over that span. And if you watched him pitch last year, I'm guessing you wouldn't say he actually had a whole lot of command. From year to year, his command really didn't change a whole lot. What changed was his focus on merely getting the ball somewhere in the zone.Coop gave him the confidence to put the ball in a place where his stuff could actually make a difference. And lo, his ERA was almost a full run lower with the Sox compared to his career average thanks to Cooper's tutelage.
All this because Jackson--finally--consistently found the strike zone w/ his 95 mph fastball. Believe it or not, like most everyone else, I focus on velocity before anything else. It's fun to watch, yes, but it really is a huge difference maker, especially on a game to game basis where you never know if that's the start the pitcher happens to have it all figured out. But of course, a fastball like Thornton's or Jackson's is relatively rare. The average fastball in MLB is about 91 mph. That means for most, movement is a big concern and a primary differentiating factor from pitcher to pitcher.
Before we can really get into movement, it's important to know how I talk about it. For the past few seasons, MLB has been tracking pitchers w/ video cameras in all 30 ballparks and releasing the data for free to the public. Typically, the system of data collection is referred to as Pitch F/x, which I do and will. The system measures every pitch's movement relative to an imaginary spinless pitch that is only affected by gravity. An actual non-figment pitch on the planet Earth is affected primarily by the force imparted upon it by the pitcher, the subsequent spin and of course gravity. So Pitch F/x subtracts effects due to gravity and leaves us with the pitch's movement and velocity.*
Velocity is measured just after the pitch leaves the pitcher's hand (as of course it begins to slow down thereafter) and movement is usually talked about in terms of two-dimensions, the horizontal and vertical components of the pitch's movement.
A fastball in my terminology is either a running or a rising fastball. A runner (or two-seamer) has more horizontal movement than vertical. A riser (or four-seamer) has more vertical than horizontal. Really, though, a fastball has to have a good deal more of one or the other for me to actually call it one or the other. If it's neither, it's just meh from a movement perspective. It doesn't do enough to be characterized either way. My personal rule of thumb is that it needs at least twice (two times) as much of one component than the other to deserve a special designation. I don't think you'll find that more than loosely supported in any Pitch F/x articles, but I've found it useful in 4 years of staring at these numbers.
And to be sure, it is a useful distinction. Knowing the rise and run of the fastball helps in figuring out against whom the pitch will be effective. Running fastballs induce lots of ground balls. But they are also very vulnerable to the platoon advantage. For instance, lefties do hit righty two-seamers on the ground more of than righty four-seamers, but the ones that do end up in the air get hit very hard. The slugging percentage for either ends up about the same, but the two-seamer loses out because it gives up more base hits overall.
A righty batter versus a righty two-seamer, on the other hand, is a whole different story. While the four-seamer is basically no different regardless of the handedness of the batter, the two-seamer becomes a much better pitch thanks to even more ground balls. Extra base hits become a chore to muster up so much so that a two-seamer alone is a very effective weapon as long as the pitcher has the platoon advantage.
The four-seamer makes up for it a bit, since it nabs a few more whiffs per swing than the two-seamer, but it's not a huge margin. A two-seamer is definitely preferable if velocity is equal and the pitcher and hitter are on the same side of the plate.
Of course, this has implications for the lineups a pitcher is more or less likely to have success against, not to mention the secondary offerings he requires in order to be a successful major league pitcher.
For instance, the White Sox have been a righty-dominant lineup for much of the last half of Kenny Williams' tenure. Perhaps you also remember all of those mediocre never-pitcher-in-the-bigs sinker/slider guys absolutely killing us time and time again? Some of that is bad luck, some of that is Alex Rios being the worst thing since sliced genitalia, but a good amount of it is that if those sinker/slider types are throwing strikes, they're well set up to have success against the Sox' limited lefty lineup.
That is, the circumstances that led to the success of these oh so numerous mediocre AAAA types were critical and, for them, fortuitous. Had they faced off against the Yankees, with their gobs of lefties and switch-hitters (not to mention talent), the AAAAers simply wouldn't have that kind of success. Handedness matters and pitchers for whom it matters most are often candidates for the bullpen rather than kept on as starters. In the pen, managers can limit innings and play match-ups to limit exposure to platoon disadvantages and hopefully exploit what competitive advantages they do possess. Or maybe they're just mediocre AAAA types.
End of Part I, apparently. If this seems overly simple, I'm just trying to take it slow and get everyone on board. The off-speed stuff should see the pace pick up.
*This isn't crazy exact language, I know, but I think it gets the point across. Also: atmospheric effects from say pitching in San Diego or Denver are not modeled by PFx to my knowledge and are therefore still in the data. Same thing with temperature, for that matter.
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Was wondering why this was atypically later in the day compared to the first post of most other days.
Asked and answered.
We're all here because we're not all there.
by winningugly on Jan 11, 2012 9:13 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
i've come full circle on this
your relentless badgering of colin for sleeping until noon, not working etc. just went from stale to timeless.
BECAUSE IT IS SO TRUE!
We're all here because we're not all there.
by winningugly on Jan 11, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Much like colin's alarm clock.
"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."
Excellent article. Very useful information.
Colin (or anyone else), I believe you mentioned you were a pitcher correct? I’m curious if you’ve read “The Mental ABC’s of Pitching”? I’m teaching my 16yr old son the mental approach & I’d like a good reading reference. Also, techniques?
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Yep, I pitched in HS.
I’d never heard of that book, but the Amazon reviews sound good. If you’re just referring to being on the mound, I’m of the Bull Durham School. As in “don’t think, you’ll only hurt the ballclub.”
Dn if you remember my Cascade Failure post from way back in May, but the science on choking actually supports that approach. As soon as we think in terms of actual mechanics when the game is on the line, we put ourselves in dangerous territory. Do all your thinking before you get out on the mound, have a game plan, develop a routine and stick with it. By the time the game starts, there’s not much you can change unless you have a really particular relationship with the pitching coach.
I haven’t actually read too many books about pitching itself and was generally disappointed what I did come across. I do remember liking
http://www.amazon.com/Head-Game-Baseball-Pitchers-Mound/dp/0156013045
that, but I don’t know if it’s what you’re looking for or not.
As far as technique/mechanics, that’s kind of a whole other thing. If there’s anything you really want to talk about, email me (it’s at the bottom of the page). I can talk about this stuff for days.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
I'm more referring to mentally preparing before hitting the mound.
My son is very competitive in that he tends to get rattled when bad things happen. I’m trying to get him to play through the ups & downs. Also, I want him to understand his go-to pitch when in trouble & what pitch to throw in different situations.
As far as technique: 3 years ago I was asked to help coach F/S baseball & eventually found myself as the pitching coach (by default I suppose). I was recommended "Coaching Pitchers" by Joe McFarland. It helped me greatly since I never pitched. I was a catcher & OF so needless to say, I was clueless on techniques.
I had to learn how to deal with my son as his pitching coach for 2 years (I coached 1 year before he was in HS). As you can imagine, we left the mound steaming mad on more than one occasion the 1st year. I cooled & adapted to keep him positive last season.
Last night we spoke of this very article & I used your examples of pitches to throw to LH vs RH batters.
Thanks for the advice!
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
I would probably give somewhat different advice in HS
Talent differences between a pitcher and a batter can be so much bigger that what I wrote may apply very little. So the real key is being able to quickly size up a hitter. Is he legit or isn’t he? Size of the hitter is a big deal, but you really need to watch the warm up swings and get a feel for batter mechanics. Is he quick? Is he coordinated? I was fortunate to have a good HS fastball (83-85), so I very rarely ran into anyone who could really do any damage as long as I kept the ball off the barrel, but I was always looking out for guys I had to actually pitch to.
But even against the lesser guys, you can’t just have a pitch, you have to have a spot. With a big fastball, I always tried to be right at the hitter’s hands. Particularly against loopy swings, where their hands end up on the plate, up and in—but in the zone—killed. But in general, especially with metal bats with huge sweet spots, getting in on the handle makes for swings and misses and easily fielded ground balls.
If you don’t have that consistent velocity advantage, you have to be away away away. Be able to fall out of bed and hit low and away to RHB and LHB. And then you’ll need legit off speed stuff too. If you don’t have a dominant pitch, it’s more and more important to be random and fool a hitter’s expectation. With a dominant pitch, don’t futz around with shit that gives the hitter a chance.
Once you’ve got a plan, from there you need to be able to be rational…but also rationalize the results. Does he know about BABIP? Defense in HS is shite and he needs to know that going in. Any one ball in play is far more likely than any pitcher would like to be a hit. All you can do is throw outs and if your defense can’t help you out, well, you’re not playing in the bigs just yet. For instance, I secretly hated my shortstop, but it’s not like he wasn’t trying or wasn’t a good person. You just have to take that as part of the game and strategize accordingly.
With average BABIP high and defense bad, it means that you really have to avoid the ball being put in play in the first place. Strikeouts are at a huge premium. And if the tradeoff is fewer balls in play, being okay with a walk (especially against a talented but slow hitter) I think makes sense. But again, this changes a lot from batter to batter. Scouting hitters from their warm up swings and their body language really is a huge deal.
For rationalization, he needs to be able to tell himself whatever it is that gets him back to his gameplan. Is he hyperrational? What makes him laugh? It’s a nuanced thing, but you’ve got to be able to get out of your own head and back on automatic. The Don’t Think mantra is a big deal.
I think a big issue is blame. Does he put it on himself? Others? The first step hopefully is to get to the point where if he’s blaming himself, someone else can step in. If he’s blaming others, get him to focus on the pitcher-batter matchup. But thinking in blame terms is really really problematic because it stays in your head and keeps you out of the game, not to mention it puts you at odds w/ teammates. I think some low grade Cognitive Behavioral Therapy would be a good move. Get him to see why blame thinking is damaging to the success he wants to have and notice when he’s thinking in those terms.
It’s a slow process, especially for teenagers who may have just started thinking in self-reflexive terms. If he’s listening to you and his coaches, you’re already well ahead of the game, since a lot of people (teens in particular) tend to just move into “what can i do to get this guy to shut up” mode.
…I have no idea how relevant this is to your particular situation, but I think that’s a pretty good basic manual for most.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
jesus christ.
Here is the KenWo rules to high school pitching dominance.
1. Grow a mullet to show you ain’t fucking around like Rod Beck and Doug Jones
2. Hit a batter every now and then in the upper back with a heater.
3. Don’t walk anyone.
4. You have to show a breaking pitch… even if it sucks… just to keep them honest. My curve ball was a slooowwwwww blooper… but i got so many outs on it. It wasn’t a great pitch or anything- just fucked with timing.
5. Truly believe that you are the best.
At that age its all mind games. if they are scared to face the dude with the rockstar hair cut who has a tendency to hit people… they aren’t going to be very successful.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 12, 2012 11:56 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
i think 2 and 5 are good advice
but nobody wants to put up with an asshole who isn’t great, so if that’s your mode, you better be great. i hit dudes all the time and swore at batters i struck out. but umpires loved me because i was good and made their jobs easier and more enjoyable.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
Rec'd for mullet ref. hilarity but there's no freaking way my kid's growing one.
Maybe shave his head & paint a scar on his face?
Seriously, he’s more internal & doesn’t blame others. I teach him no walks but if it’s a hitter that can slam him, a walk is the lesser of the 2 evils. Yes, he listens, but where I got into trouble was talking to him during an at bat. I was distracting him more than helping. So in that case he did go into shutdown listening mode. The great thing is we’re able to talk after games and better understand each other.
I offered him a quick chart that shows pitches to use with swing type(s). I think that was from the McFarland book I referred to earlier. It’s very useful and I’ve preached that to our catchers as well. Typically the head coach calls for pitches, but at times the catcher makes the call.
Yes, we talk often on defense because it changes with who plays where. We have a SS with great range up the middle but he can get lazy on routine plays. We’ll probably be weak at 3B so that’s something we consider before he takes the mound. I’m all about analyzing before the game starts. We also don’t work on mechanics except during side sessions. But a little reminder between innings doesn’t hurt.
He features 4 pitches. Obviously, 2 & 4 seam FB as well as a pretty good slider and an OK change. His favorite pitch is the slider and he’s less confident on his change. It’s really good when he throws it correctly. He can throw a curve but it’s not much (something I hope to work on a little this offseason). I don’t know his velocity on FB right now since we’ve had a setback with his health. But with Dr. approval, we hope to start throwing in a couple of weeks.
Ken’s #5 is a must! Whether you’re on or off, a pitcher must be confident enough to think he can pitch out of anything.
Anyway, thanks for the advice guys!
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
i secretly hated most of the team
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Jan 13, 2012 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
Including Colin?
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
no
he gave me someone to hang out with when i was busy not paying attention in physics and calc
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Jan 13, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
I'm slower than most
does a negative number on the horizontal location mean “inside” for every batter, no matter righty or lefty?
or does it mean to the left of the center of the plate, relative to the catcher’s mitt?
or does it mean something else?
White Sox 2012: Helplessly rebuilding?
Only pitches to right-handed batters were used in constructing those graphs.
Pitch F/X horizontal locations are from the catcher’s perspective. So yes, the negative values would be to the inner part of the plate for a RHB.
Speed dammit. J/K great article.
This space is available.
Colinj, this is
awesome. Clear and, for me, very useful. Can’t wait to pay more attention this year! Thank you.
This is how you spend your break from school? Or are you back in Kansas?
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
Good work, man. I wish you wrote more often.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
great post colintj
i am going to focus more on making my fast balls move like jagger
"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton
by Grinder Rule #42 on Jan 11, 2012 11:48 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
This is fantastic.
I only know the reference because I have a 9 year old daughter.
We're all here because we're not all there.
by winningugly on Jan 11, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
yah, my 6y/o boy keeps referring to it
as Girlfriend Music…
"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton
by Grinder Rule #42 on Jan 11, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
This is great, thanks for the analysis.
It’s interesting to see how difficult it is to get fastball value below 87.5 MPH. I’d be interested to see a) how much the cutoff points for velocity (above X, below Y) affect the shape of the graph, as well as whether a late-career Greg Maddux would have changed the way they appear at all.
Nothing makes a low ceiling look bad quite like a high floor does.
by KirollosStadion on Jan 11, 2012 12:34 PM CST reply actions
this guy made it look easy
Pitch Type, Avg Speed, Max Speed
FA (Fastball), 82.50, 82.7
FF (FourSeam Fastball), 86.40, 89.8
"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton
by Grinder Rule #42 on Jan 11, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
I shed a single, manly tear in remembrance of that guy.
Of course, this guy made it look easy too
FF (FourSeam Fastball) 86.89 89.2
Nothing makes a low ceiling look bad quite like a high floor does.
by KirollosStadion on Jan 11, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
hahhaha...i shed many tears like a lil bia
in remembarance of the white sox results against him
"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton
by Grinder Rule #42 on Jan 11, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
phil rogers' BA prospect list is...interesting.
1. Addison Reed, rhp
2. Nestor Molina, rhp
3. Simon Castro, rhp
4. Trayce Thompson, of
5. Jake Petricka, rhp
6. Keenyn Walker, of
7. Jhan Marinez, rhp
8. Tyler Saladino, ss
9. Juan Silverio, 3b
10. Ozzie Martinez, ss
i think it's kind of like Mexican Halloween
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
by colintj on Jan 11, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Do you agree with that list in general?
This space is available.
Is there a link to your list?
This space is available.
Search, fer Chrissakes.
http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/12/13/2503194/top-10-white-sox-prospects-for-2012
We're all here because we're not all there.
by winningugly on Jan 11, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Santiago...?
And Marinez is sorta high.
by Shoeless In SC on Jan 11, 2012 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
you reply to larry.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Jan 11, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
It says "This is the end of part 1, apparently"
near the bottom. Is he being ironic?
We're all here because we're not all there.
i've got another 2000-2500 words written.
covers non-fastballs.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
typing skills like a rocket and a mind like a scientist
"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton
by Grinder Rule #42 on Jan 11, 2012 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/01/white-sox-land-venezuelan-righthander-luis-martinez/
Marco Paddy making his presence felt early and often this offseason. No idea on the prospect of course, but at least they are trying.
As someone who really should know more of the technical parts of the sport, thanks for this lesson
I’ve noticed how much more effective outside pitches are. One striking aspect of the second graph is how much greater of a role speed plays for a high fastball than one towards the knees. That makes sense due to where the bat would go on a swing and the resulting level of adjustment the player would have to make, but still, pretty striking.
We play on the "bad" side of town, we were supposedly cursed, and we wear black. Let's play.
outside pitches are harder to pull
and most guys need to turn on a pitch to really do any damage.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
I see, thanks
We play on the "bad" side of town, we were supposedly cursed, and we wear black. Let's play.
Stat freaks
Hey – get a dog and a beer and enjoy the game for what it is. Forget this cultist, super-geek stat analysis.
If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
by Alladat1 on Jan 11, 2012 6:04 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
i think it's hilarious
it’s long, but that’s stat analysis to him? not exactly chock full of standard deviations.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
this article wasn't even stat-head geek stuff
it was about physics and how they relate to the pitcher, hitter, bat and the ball.
by Shoeless In SC on Jan 11, 2012 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
And how is the dog enhancing the viewing experience?
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
it's more fun to have no clue why things are happening because then everything that does happen surprises the shit out of you and then elicits either joy or anger.
by larry on Jan 11, 2012 8:32 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
The capsulation of life.
They call you larry for a reason.
The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.
God only THINKS he's larry.
We're all here because we're not all there.
by winningugly on Jan 13, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Don't you realize this kind of stuff makes the game MORE interesting to some people?
Why do you feel the need to come on this website and type out such close-minded and ignorant comment about a well-written and well constructed article? My guess is you don’t understand it and you hate feeling stupid.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
in that case perhaps it's mick
at least we can rule out wtgtd based on his velocity discussions.
by Shoeless In SC on Jan 11, 2012 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
It's a simple game
You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
Bleacher Bums
Yes he is a Cubs fan.
First two phrases transposed.
i thought about that when i was eight years old.
others things i probably thought at eight years old: a bearded man in a red suit broke into my house to give me presents; babies arrived by way of a stork; praying to god actually brought results; a fairy gave me money in exchange for my teeth.
it’s called growing the fuck up and not thinking like a dumbshit eight year old anymore.
by larry on Jan 12, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
when i was 8 years old...
i was on my way to my first little league championship. a 16-0 season for the Phillies. We had better pitching than Halladay, lee, Oswalt and Hamels.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
by KenWo4LiFe on Jan 12, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
When I was 8 years old I was fucking the babysitter. Little Leaguer.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
pfft.
i was so good in little league i was fucking the baby sitters mom.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Sometimes it rains.
Very true, but way back when we weren’t quite walking upright, we figured out ways to keep us dry.
I get what you’re saying though; I’m not an advanced stat guy either. Sometimes things are over-analyzed. This is a matter of personal preference. Pick out the parts you prefer & don’t damn those that think beyond the box score. In Colin’s defense, I believe this article is more of a pitch selection analysis instead of advanced statistics. He’s only referring to fastballs & location. I’d suppose if he chooses to do more, he’ll write about other pitches. I look forward to those articles very much.
Now, you can eat your hot dog, sit back and enjoy the game for what it is: a simple win or a loss. But the fact remains that much thought is put into each contest LONG before the umpire gives the starting pitcher the ball. Simple game, yes, but the complexities of this game is what keeps me and perhaps many others enthralled.
Just don’t bitch when a HR is launched over the fence in a loss because the pitcher threw the wrong pitch.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
by lastof12 on Jan 12, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
no, you don't get what he's saying.
the fact that some people enjoy the game differently than he does impinges upon his ability to enjoy the game the way he wants to enjoy it. everyone should think about things the same way, enjoy things the same way and act the same way. and that way should be his way.
that's not at all what I got from it
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
then you should read it again. for what other reason would someone complain about how other people look at the game and tell them to "enjoy the game for what it is"?
Then am I wrong in thinking that all people should think the same way I think about Alladat1?
Hope not.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
"Alladat1- I've posted with KenWo. I know KenWo. KenWo is a friend of mine.
Alladat1, you are no KenWo."
by South Side Expat on Jan 12, 2012 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
alright, I understand it pissed you off
In all honesty, it did me too. I took a different route, that’s all. The brash way he brought it out was wrong, but the argument exists between stats vs eye test, no? That’s how I took it.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
it doesn't piss me off.
and he’s not arguing “the eye test”. he’s arguing the “i don’t give a shit about any analysis whatsoever and you shouldn’t either”.
point taken
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
You should mentor him.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
who's mentoring me?
larry? would you please?
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

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