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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Greg Walker, as seen through fresh eyes

Word.

Another day, another member of the White Sox coaching staff talking about how they knew their team was going to be flat in 2011 and didn't or couldn't do much to address it.

Oddly enough, Joe Cowley's column was the only the second-most worthwhile read about Greg Walker on Wednesday, unless these I'm-just-now-telling-you-I-knew-something-bad-was-going-to-happen-months-after-it-finished-happening tales do something for you.

Jerry Crasnick also talked with the former White Sox hitting coach, and since it focuses on his new job with the Atlanta Braves, it's a whole lot more useful.

I'm intrigued by hitting coaches, mostly because I really can't write about them with any certainty. I wonder just how certain teams are about hitting coaches when they hire them, given how they often get the ax when things go awry. Their existences seem mostly interchangeable, hinging on timing and whether a high-profile player can be considered a success story.

I have some notions about what Walker brought to and took off the table with the White Sox, but they're only notions. So I was glad to see him hook up with the Braves shortly after he parted ways with the Sox, because it's going to add some context to his time on the South Side, as well as some data to compare it to, even if conclusions can't be strongly drawn.

Crasnick's article is well-timed. Since it's right before spring training, we're catching Walker coming off a relationship that had grown stale, and right as he begins a new job with new bosses who are picking up what he's putting down.

Star-divide

According to Crasnick, Walker and Kenny Williams "are not on each other's Christmas card lists," which is to be expected after their alleged argument over Gordon Beckham's mechanics in September.

While Cowley emphasizes the idea that distrust is still rampant between players and management as long as Williams and Don Cooper roam the land, I'm thinking the chain of command has to be strengthened by the streamlining. Williams, Walker and Ozzie Guillen all had their own long-lasting and mutually loyal relationships with Jerry Reinsdorf dating back to the 1980s. While that's ultimately an asset, the independent bonds also played a part in conflicting accounts over who could make what decision, and, namely, who could fire whom. The whole saga brings to mind some wise words from Mr. T: "Don't get too close. It's hard to pity a fool if you get too close."

With Guillen and Walker moving on to their respective NL East destinations, the remaining durable relationships aren't working against each other now. Williams and Cooper have been on the same page (to Guillen's chagrin), Ventura is back in the fold but learning the ropes, Jeff Manto and Joe McEwing are relative newcomers, Mark Parent is a complete outsider, and Harold Baines is Harold Baines. At least from the outside, it looks like management will be able to pity fools with far fewer ramifications, which should make the new regime more decisive. The way I see it, that's a step forward no matter what kind of tension remains.

And whatever tension remains will pale in comparison to 2011, as Walker told Cowley the cold war weighed heavily on the clubhouse despite claims to the contrary.

Anyway, these twin Walker pieces allow him the opportunity to close the book on his White Sox career, and he did it with professionalism -- vague acknowledgment of strained relationships and wounds, well-wishing to Reinsdorf, Ventura and his other friends in the organization, and an agreement that the change is for the best.

So now we get to see the cycle begin anew with Atlanta. Crasnick breaks down the situation in great detail, and there are ways to compare and contrast what he inherits in Atlanta with what he dealt with in Chicago.

Similarities

1980s White Sox relationships: Jim Fregosi, a special assistant to Atlanta GM Frank Wren, threw his support behind Walker after Wren fired previous hitting coach Larry Parrish.

Scott Fletcher is also in the mix. He'll serve as an assistant hitting coach, bringing another perspective to the mix and handling advance scouting with video. Crasnick said that this arrangement has worked well in St. Louis. For what it's worth, Manto said during SoxFest that he'd be nuts if he didn't lean on Baines for advice.

A key underperformer: Walker replaced Gary Ward in order to try to give a new voice to a all-or-nothing offense, and, at the time, an all-nothing Paul Konerko. One of the big reasons he left Chicago is because he couldn't get through to Beckham.

The Braves went looking for a new hitting coach because Jason Heyward's career is going in the wrong direction, and he never clicked with Parrish. If he can get Heyward back on track, it could give him the kind of job security Konerko's revival afforded him in Chicago.

A disappointing offense: Besides Heyward, the Braves had other surprising reasons behind the lack of runs. Dan Uggla's first-half batting average rivaled Adam Dunn's, Brian McCann tried to come back too soon from an oblique injury, and Martin Prado was hampered by a staph infection. Like the White Sox of the early aughts, the Braves have parts that are greater than the sum, and if they can put it all together, they're a threat.

Differences

Geography: While most White Sox players spend winters away from Chicago, most Braves players hang around Atlanta all year. Instead of having to fly from place to place to meet individually with hitters, he has been able to hold group sessions at Turner Field with hitters young and old. This might not matter, but the Chicago winters have come up in other ways (Bobby Jenks having nobody to play catch with, for instance).

Less loyalty: The Braves have churned through hitting coaches, going from Terry Pendleton to Parrish to Walker since 2010. If the Braves offense shows no improvement, it's hard to imagine Walker getting as many chances as he did in Chicago.

Star-divide

For now, it's all positive. Walker speaks of Heyward the same way he spoke of Alex Rios during offseason consultations, and Walker receives some praise that is familiar to us. Selections from Crasnick's article include:

  • amiable, disarming way
  • firm believer in the importance of forging bonds
  • thick skin
  • foxhole mentality
  • arrive at the park early and stay late

Here's one description of Walker that didn't quite match his Chicago reputation, though:

The Braves liked Walker's mix of old-school fundamentals and receptiveness to new-age technology and information.

Then again, new-age technology and information was eschewed by Guillen (according to Mark Gonzales), and he might have set the tone for the field operations. However, Manto's hitting philosophy leans more toward traditional thinking, so it's hard to say the Sox have changed their approach all that radically, if at all.

Who knows? Maybe it's all noise. But since the White Sox will have a new hitting coach for the first time in nine years, and their old hitting coach will inherit a comparable situation with a few notable variables, I think it's worth following their first years on the job. The distance from both Manto and Walker might allow us to pity them more accurately should pity be necessary, and if we can't glean any insight on hitting coaches from the comparison, maybe there's nothing for us to learn.

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Great synthesis, Jim.

Thanks.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Feb 16, 2012 7:10 AM CST reply actions  

i think walker took too much heat from the fans here... i hope he straightens up heyward-

but if they fired terry pendleton (MVP for the Braves) so quickly, he is going to have to do it fast.

i still don’t get the bobby jenks thing. i would have played catch with him.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 7:33 AM CST reply actions  

i'm also sad that he probably won't be included in any of the 30 year anniversary of the 1983 team stuff because of this.

walker was a good guy. at the end of the 2006 season, my brother and I bought tickets and a hotel in minneapolis in hopes of seeing the sox and twins battle for the division on the last series. even though the sox were out of it we still went. while eating at mortons steakhouse walker came in. he must have spotted us as sox fans right away and came to the table and introduced himself.

he even shared with us that the sox had a deal in place that year to acquire Soriano from washington, but lance broadway failed in his efforts to impress the nationals brass so they pulled the deal.

i wish him nothing but the best.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 7:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Of course he will be included.

Razor Shines is still involved with Fantasy Camp, fer Chrissakes. A new job isn’t going to preclude Walk’s invite.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Feb 16, 2012 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

He'll show.

His bond is with his teammates and pupils.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Feb 16, 2012 8:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Kenny may dislike him, but he is not a tyrannical dictator

It would be pretty dickish to not let him come. Plus, now that Walker is away I am sure the friction has died down.

by 815Sox on Feb 19, 2012 4:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

love razor shines

an indianapolis indians legend

by Loch on Feb 16, 2012 9:09 AM CST up reply actions  

I continue to find it amusing that someone who pummels KW and Ozzie on a regular basis

defends Greg freaking Walker. Straighten out Heyward? Really? Because he’s helped young hitters so well in the past?

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Feb 16, 2012 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

what young hitters have we had other than Beckham?

jesus christ couldn’t have saved Fields, Anderson or Owens.

Quentin thrived when he got here. Ramirez made an easy transition. Crede got better with time. Konerko got a lot better under Walker. Dye brought his career to new heights under walker.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 9:57 AM CST up reply actions  

And one of the most consistent stretches in history from a hitter (Dunn)

just ended in a historically bad year. Make up your mind. Either hitting coaches don’t matter much and its ridiculous to defend a dude who had a job for 7 years or they mean a great deal and Walker left with a combined total of subpar results from an offensive team standpoint.

"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun

by Tdogg on Feb 16, 2012 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

i think walker did fine as a hitting coach.

all of them have hits and misses. he was no different.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

where did i say he should have stayed?

i just think he caught unjust heat for a long time around here and that i hope he straightens up heyward.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

All warriors are Cold Warriors

With Ozzie gone, and Walker in Atlanta…Cowley reminds me of the columnists and think tank “scholars” who lost their mojo after the fall of the Soviet Union. They turn up from time to time…to warn us to keep an eye on those wily Russians…but the world has moved on to other conflicts.

The Sox are just as relevant today as they were six months ago.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Feb 16, 2012 7:50 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

I enjoyed Cowley's column for the confirmation from Walker that the clubhouse atmosphere was complete shit and everyone knew there was nothing that could be done

Now, Cowley blames Cooper and KW for that and of course that is ridiculous. Ozzie is about as vitriolic as you can get, he was the catalyst in that scenario. He is a with me or against me guy who brought a shit ton of baggage. It makes sense that two of the worst seasons in the history of baseball were in such an environment. I was disappointed in the Ventura hire but I am ready to start trying to believe in it now. Its not like KW is going to clash with every manager, it was all Ozzie. Though, KW’s temper didn’t help much either.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 8:21 AM CST reply actions  

I understand why you would think so and KW is certainly at fault

but I don’t think any other manager isn’t going to clash with KW the way Ozzie did…like I said Ozzie was the catalyst and he stuck around too long. I think Reinsdorf looked at everything and decided he wanted to keep some modicum of stability in the organization and selected the front office instead of the managerial staff. If he had fired KW and kept Ozzie, it is likely that Ozzie would have end up clashing with the new GM or he would have ended up having too much power, not unlike the Bears keeping Lovie Smith and hiring Emery.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 9:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I meant

“I don’t think any other manager would clash with KW the way Ozzie did.”

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Wasn't a radio station.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 16, 2012 9:24 AM CST up reply actions  

nah the kids are pretty good usually.

and i didn’t call a radio station, the sox called me to be part of a conference call.

other than that? yah pretty spot on.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 9:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Am I the only one who thinks this is Williams' last shot?

If the team tanks again this year, would Jerry give him another chance?

To my knowledge, certain things were not known.
-James Murdoch

by 2ndHalfAdjustments on Feb 16, 2012 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

does anybody expect this team to win more than 85 games?

i don’t see williams getting canned over a 75-85 win season. I think that’s the expectation, isn’t it?

less than that? eh. different story. but still— Williams has been building for more than this year so I don’t think he’s in a tenuous spot.

by ruffster on Feb 16, 2012 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Cooper?

For 2012 season: ALEX RIOS is my new TONY PENA.

by JofpGallagher on Feb 16, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

He gets the guys for Cooper to work with.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 16, 2012 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

sure cooper has a hand in it... but williams has to be credited as well.

he went out and got Garcia, Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Jackson (although that deal is flawed the guy was still a good pitcher), peavy… the sox have always had capable starting pitching.

there are a lot of teams that can’t say that. probably 25 other teams.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

And that's just looking at starters.

Thornton, Jenks, and Santos were all scrap heap relievers.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 16, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

hermanson, pollite, putz, crain

the linebrink one stunk. other than that he has hit on the bullpen a ton as well. hell even will ohman wasnt brutal last year.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

I never understood why people seemed to hate the Will Ohman signing so much.

He earned his $1.5MM.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 16, 2012 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

eh same as the fukudome. ex cub factor

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

birds of a shitfeather flock together

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Shitfeathers on a shitrooster.

The lords of dawn are men such as Mr. Lucy.

by Uribe Down on Feb 16, 2012 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

you just opened Pandora's shitbox, TP

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Partially the Luis Vizcaino factor

Made such a terrible first impression that some people wrote him off as a zero for the rest of the season.

That, and it’s still weird to give a guy like Ohman a backloaded two-year contract when he’s worked year-to-year in the National League his whole life.

by Jim Margalus on Feb 16, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, and scott linebrink.

some of these signings make you wonder who kw thinks he’s bidding against.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Feb 16, 2012 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

2 years at $4MM is a lot different than the Linebrink signing.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 16, 2012 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

no doubt, but people (rationally) wonder why you give multi-year deals to non-elite relievers.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Feb 16, 2012 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

this is true.

and i’m not going to give the white sox credit for being this prescient. but the free agent left-handed relievers this offseason were not anything to behold (and the internal options aren’t pretty, either). of course, if ohman had signed a one year deal with the white sox and had the year he had, he probably would have re-signed with the white sox anyway. hopefully the fact that this one came up roses doesn’t embolden anyone.

by larry on Feb 18, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Liney and Dotel at the same time.

I was at fantasy camp in the clubhouse when the signings were announced in ‘08. The old guys were stoked. I don’t think anyone cared that they were expensive deals – of course, the players love to see management spend large.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Feb 18, 2012 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

i don't think the dotel deal was all too terrible.

he was ok

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 18, 2012 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Williams

As we all know this team is kinda a mess.Just like your house after a party it can be cleaned up and put in order a bit.I think that is where this is going with Kenny.At that point he hands off and gets kicked up stairs.Possibly as soon as the end of this season.

by Lil Jimmy on Feb 16, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

i dont get the common belief that he will be 'kicked upstairs'

i think it’s a very good idea, nor do I think he could handle a hands off position with some glorified title.

by e-gus on Feb 16, 2012 9:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Upstairs

There are close to 200 full time people behind the scenes.Bulls and Sox with offices in a number of locations.If this was the mob then Kenny would be a made man.People in higher positions then Williams are a generation older.I am certain there is a place for him if he wants it.

by Lil Jimmy on Feb 17, 2012 8:29 AM CST up reply actions  

there are three people in higher positions than williams.

two are the largest percentage owners of the club. the third is howard pizer. williams can’t do pizer’s job. if he gets kicked anywhere, it’s downstairs. KW isn’t even 50 years old. i find it hard to believe he’s going to recede into the background after running a baseball team for more than a decade.

by larry on Feb 17, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Titles get created.

It might be less as you mentioned.Recently a job was created for Buddy bell.Ron Schueler left on his own otherwise he would still be there somewhere.If Kenny was Jewish as well as Black I think Jerry would adopt him.

by Lil Jimmy on Feb 17, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

bell is actually doing something.

schueler is more of the model. he stuck around for a bit until he got another job. because the job he had was a clear demotion and didn’t actually entail doing anything. if we’re talking about a face-saving temporary position for KW, sure, he’ll get offered that. but he’s not going to hang around. these guys can’t deal with it.

by larry on Feb 17, 2012 5:46 PM CST up reply actions  

these guye can"t deal with it.

Up till that we are on the same page.He will accept it,move out of the spot light and move gracefully into the night.

by Lil Jimmy on Feb 17, 2012 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he has until 2015

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

His last shot was last year.

I posted this in another thread. I blame directly, and indirectly KW for this

For 2012 season: ALEX RIOS is my new TONY PENA.

by JofpGallagher on Feb 16, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

A lot of the White Sox failure to produce through the draft comes from almost never paying overslot.

Not entirely sure that decree comes from KW. This system of analysis is also flawed, as it completely discounts what players a team drafted have done for another team. I get that the point of the exercise is to show how well each team has restocked through the draft, but there are players we’ve drafted and sent out that have done well.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 16, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

That's true ...it will be over simplistic to use that simple chart to crucify KW

Teams can be also successful (in a very short-term) with free agency players, but it’s a expensive way to go.

For 2012 season: ALEX RIOS is my new TONY PENA.

by JofpGallagher on Feb 16, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

The more I read that article, the more flaws I find with it.

2002 is an arbitrary end point. Ten years is a nice round number, but it credits and discredits some teams unfairly. Multiple teams have had multiple GMs in that ten year window. Hell, we canned our guy in charge of the minor leagues from 2003-2006. It completely ignores international signings, free agency, and trades.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 16, 2012 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

It's of course to great to be able to say you drafted and developed your own guys

But as a fan, I care that there are good players period. Danks and Floyd by themselves are close to 30 fWAR over that time, which of course wasn’t on the chart. They were still very productive players with cheap years of team control, just like homegrown players. Signing Alexei for 4 years for very little and netting 12+ wins isn’t home grown, but it was still a very good move to get a good, cheap player.

by MelidoPerez on Feb 16, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

The chart is sort of fine for what it is, but can't really be used as an indictment on anyone.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 16, 2012 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree whole heartedly!!!!

I miss spelled that shit!

"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11

by rangerjae on Feb 16, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

That makes me feel good

I’ve always liked Ozzie, going all the way back to his playing days but the last few years he was out of control.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Freud would enjoy your hot dog usage.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Feb 16, 2012 6:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Agree with most of that

It is sort of sad that one of the things I am most looking forward to this season is not winning, but the people in charge working together, and a guy like Ventura coming in without any bs allegiances to any players. How refreshing it could be if RV talked to some coaches, front office people, looked at some tape, and decided De Aza was by far the most capable guy to man CF.
De Aza playing last year when it still mattered never could have happened because of important things like Ozzie’s friendship with Rios, what move would stick it to the GM, what Juan Pierre had “earned” as a veteran, etc.

I blame Reinsdorf for a lot of this. It’s kind of like the adage, “when you have two quarterbacks, you really have none.” Because of how Reinsdorf treated Ozzie, he thought he was bulletproof (and he kind of was, if the reports about Kenny trying to fire him were true). If Reinsdorf had made it clear that Kenny was Ozzie’s boss, then maybe things turn out differently. Instead, we got the stupid two children competing for daddy’s affection drama for years while the team ends up paying the price.

by MelidoPerez on Feb 16, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Greg Walker

A key player of the 80’s White Sox and an average coach in the 2000’s.

by soxfan50 on Feb 16, 2012 8:44 AM CST reply actions  

"Manto's hitting philosophy leans more toward traditional thinking"

We’re going to spend hundred of millions on salary – so does “traditional thinking” mean we not going to use the latest technology to enhance the value of our players?

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by phastphil on Feb 16, 2012 10:04 AM CST reply actions  

I don't think that we can make that conclusion.

As Carlton Fisk said, the Sox have a video room you can launch a missile from, so I don’t think there is a massive technological gap. But from what Manto has said — and from what the Sox have said about Manto — there’s nothing about his approach that seems particularly progressive. I don’t recall “new-age” or any synonyms used to describe him. He’s just going to have a different voice, and that could very well be enough for all I know.

by Jim Margalus on Feb 16, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Manto

Doesn’t he have crystals that he rubs on the bats?

by Lil Jimmy on Feb 16, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Is anyone else enjoying the Soler derby as much as I am?

The premature celebrations of a few days ago have really made this whole thing a delight.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 16, 2012 10:12 AM CST reply actions  

Every Cub fan that hurriedly told me about the news has not brought it up since

There is some schdenfreude going on for sure. I live with a Cub fan and see her family all the time, these are the little things I can delight in.

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

my friend said something like...

“can’t wait for you to see him swing and miss on an inside breaking ball and corkscrew his way into the base path halfway to first”

Which should generate some laughs fo sho.

by Shoeless In SC on Feb 16, 2012 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

What is Walker's management style?

Seriously. We can gather that he was quite technical and hands-on. And that seemed to work for some (Konerko) and not others (Beckham). Does he have one method or can he adjust to different players who don’t respond to his principal style? We don’t know, but the best managers / mentors in any business adjust themselves to the style of the person they are trying to teach/ mentor. Did he do this? We don’t know. Will Manto? Seems like a good interview question for him. My point is this – it doesn’t matter if he’s the hardest working hitting instructor (first to arrive, last to leave) if he can’t get through to the players anymore. I would venture a guess that this may be a reason Coop has had such success and is still around.

by ParisSox on Feb 16, 2012 12:33 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

It's pretty amazing when you look at the recent history

The Sox play in a park that has been one of the best to hit in over the past decade. They have taken numerous pitchers who had proven little or had disappointed elsewhere (Floyd/Thornton/Humber/Jenks/Santos etc), handed them over to Cooper, and watched them increase their value significantly.

On the other side, the Sox have brought proven hitters with good track records into this hitting friendly environment (Dunn/Rios/Swisher), handed them over to Walker, and watched them fall on their faces, and watched all those guys have epic, extended slumps which contributed to their worst seasons in the league. Not sure where Beckham fits in since he hadn’t proven himself at this level. Maybe the only way to succeed under Walker’s system is to have some borderline personality disorder where you are tempted to put your head in the oven following every 0-4 (see Konerko/Quentin).

by MelidoPerez on Feb 16, 2012 12:52 PM CST reply actions  

Certainly interesting.

There’s probably a dozen other pitchers you could throw in there too.

by polodude017 on Feb 16, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Like Jim said, you can't really have any certainty

But that seems like kind of a pattern. Some guys just need a certain voice, and it seems like over the years Walker has not been that voice for many players. I remember it being semi controversial that after Big Frank had two off years (by his standards (861/885), he went outside the organization and worked with Hriniak for a bit, and was MVP runner up the next year.

by MelidoPerez on Feb 16, 2012 2:06 PM CST reply actions  

RIP

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

too young

"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."

by BobbySouthSide on Feb 16, 2012 5:03 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

thats a shame.

who was better? gary carter or carlton fisk?

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 5:16 PM CST up reply actions  

both those guys caught a lot of games each year. the days of the 150 game/year catcher are gone now.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Feb 16, 2012 5:27 PM CST up reply actions  

AJ says nyet.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Feb 16, 2012 6:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

that was awesome. big rec.

Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.

by MarketMaker on Feb 16, 2012 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

but did he get a motorcycle?

pretty cool that he hit it over dawsons head too

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 16, 2012 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

That actually brought the first tear of 2012 to my eye

It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity

by Rhubarb on Feb 16, 2012 6:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I love guys who are emotional.

Great moment.

We're all here because we're not all there.

by winningugly on Feb 16, 2012 6:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Very cool.

…and my first thought was “man, it’s so weird hearing Steve Stone on a Cub broadcast.” You know, seeing as how I grew up with Harry Caray and Steve Stone doing Cub games.

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Feb 16, 2012 8:26 PM CST up reply actions  

i can't get used to stone doing sox games.

bring back wimpy and end the charade.

Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.

by KenWo4LiFe on Feb 17, 2012 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

That video was something very emotional

Nice indeed… thanks for bringing it up!

For 2012 season: ALEX RIOS is my new TONY PENA.

by JofpGallagher on Feb 17, 2012 5:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Also - he had a high quality 80's perm

What?! I ain't no Professor Pickles!

by 67WMAQ on Feb 16, 2012 8:28 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

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