Gordon Beckham and expectations
by U-God on Feb 2, 2012 12:36 PM CST
in Analysis
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PrintDid you know the White Sox haven't produced a legitimate position player out of a first round draft pick since using the 35th pick of the 1998 draft on Aaron Rowand? Go ahead and look, I'll wait. Gross, right? There are multiple reasons why the farm system seems unable to produce anything but cannon fodder and former college QBs: we rarely if ever go over slot, we draft safer players with lower ceilings, injuries and washouts happen. Another key component may be that only once in the past twenty years have the White Sox had a top 10 draft pick. What players came from the previous four drafts? The drafts where the Sox picked fourth, seventh, tenth, and fifth? Alex Fernandez. Frank Thomas. Robin Ventura. Jack McDowell. Maybe this is why the eighth pick of the 2008 draft, Gordon Beckham, feels like such a bust to the fan base.
I'm pretty sure we're all at fault here, but no one really wants to take the blame: Kenny Williams, Ozzie Guillen, Greg Walker, us writers, Dan Johnson, and of course Gordon Beckham. For the first time since I was able to form memories, we had a shot at a true impact homegrown bat. A hitter worth following through the minors. Someone we could dream on. And so we started dreaming. And he didn't let us down. His lowest OPS in the minors was .862! He only batted under .300 at one level and only by .001! He was a doubles monster! And then we brought him up and he kept hitting. A 22 year old infielder with an .808 OPS! The stands were already full of his jerseys and shirts in July of 2009.
He's 25 now. His OPS hasn't cracked .700 for a season since. Short of three great months (7/10, 8/10, 5/11), he just hasn't been the same. His defense at second is tremendous, but his bat consistently underwhelms. And the common fan has turned on him. Is it fair?
I don't know. Kind of-ish? We named him our Savior. We expected too much, too quickly. He's already given us more than Josh Fields, Brian Anderson, and Joe Borchard. Probably more than Josh Phegley or Jared Mitchell ever will. Damning with faint praise, sure, but look at what he's done compared to his contemporaries from that draft. Other than the Giants and Buster Posey, no team that drafted in the top ten has received more value from their player (Aaron Crow didn't sign with the Nationals). Maybe we shouldn't freak out so much and be angry that he isn't Ian Kinsler yet. He's still young. He's still cheap. He can still turn it around. All he needs to do is get back to being near league average with the bat and we have a very valuable second baseman. Let's see what the new coaching staff can do with him.
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I cannot quit on Jared.
Just as it is too soon to pronounce Becks dead (though perhaps The Savior is), Jared still has a shot.
Sigh.
We're all here because we're not all there.
:::waits patiently for Mitchell/WU/Brokeback photochop:::
"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."
apparently ed jackson signed with washington
rizzo gets his man! i wish they’d take dunn back though.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
That is a sexy rotation.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
dudes incredibly inconsistant.
why not try him on for a year, and if he proves worthy, extend him when they contend for real
"Rhubarb, if you wouldn’t mind, ram your taint into your monitor as hard as you can." - joewho112
i think it was his decision.
and he’s been worth between 3.6-3.8 fWAR over the last three years. that’s pretty consistent for a pitcher.
i was just thinking the whole boras thing, max years at whatever max deal they can get.
perhaps the market wasn’t what they thought it would be.
DUNK HIS ASS
by obnoxious american on Feb 2, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
He wasn't happy with the multi-year offers he was getting.
So the plan is apparently to take a one-year deal and try again next offseason.
from what i heard at soxfest
jared mitchell is going to have to bang buddy bell’s wife and daughter not to get a shot in the majors. lol
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
So one or the other would be ok?
"The Sox have a better home record than the Twins, but...we're not at home right now." -DJ
Beckham is a good enough guy if we had a team that could hit.
unfortunately thats not the case. we need him to hit like he showed he could in 2009. if he doesn’t do it this year, i think it might be his swan song.
bell, capra and laumann were adamant in saying saladino can play multiple positions. if he hits well at birmingham this year and beckham struggles yet again i could see that move being made for 2013
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
young americans is an incredible song.
DUNK HIS ASS
by obnoxious american on Feb 2, 2012 1:24 PM CST reply actions
i am grateful to u-god for posting the album version,
as opposed to the bullshite shortened single version.
i actually didn't know the shortened version existed
we just would listen to my dad’s vinyl or on youtube.
DUNK HIS ASS
by obnoxious american on Feb 2, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
Since the accompanying pic is of Becks biting his nails,
it begs the question, did he do the same in college? Or is this a recently developed habit? He lost a bunch of weight last year. Wondering if he this offseason he has been learning to cope with the stress of high expectations in a high visibility town/sport.
We're all here because we're not all there.
Perhaps Gordon and Adam should see a shrink?
"I wouldn’t say I’m hitting five days a week…some weeks we won’t go at all." – Adam Dunn on his preparation routine for the 2012 season (1/24/12)
Tell me you did not just rip Loraine Bracco.
"I considered throwing a volley, but since I'm considerably closer to Ford City than Dodge City, I figure it might have been misinterpreted."
wait, that's not Sarah Palin?
wait, that’s not Steven Tyler?
Dave Martinez woulda had that.
by Nordhagen on Feb 2, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Countertheory: He is not biting his nails.
1. The thumbnail appears to be strapping and healthy, teeming with sweet, sweet keratin. A sturdy, robust thumbnail is not typical of nail-biting nancy-sacs. (See: James’ thumb, Lebron.)
2. The middle fingernail’s whereabouts are obscured by the presence of the curled index finger, raising the possibility that the fingernail itself is not the story, but is merely along for the ride while Gordon inhales the sweet aroma of whatever is left on his knuckle (this, I am confident, he did a lot of in college).
3. The origin of the hand and wrist cannot be definitively identified as Gordon’s torso. Only Nam Y. Huh can say for certain, but if an anagram of my name were Huny Ham, I would not be concerned with such tripe.
4. Consider the stiffened thumb, the tight curvature of the index finger, the softened, extended curvature of the middle finger, and the convenient obscurity of the right hand. Clearly, these factors invite comparison to the infamous “ood” formation customarily performed by the left hand, in conjunction with the complementary formation from the right hand.
Conclusion: Gordon is a Blood.
by dr. lingerie on Feb 2, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 11 recs
You are a lunatic,
and rec’d.
We're all here because we're not all there.
by winningugly on Feb 2, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You are even more obscure, and thus more clever, than originally thought:
The Ood are humanoid in appearance with tentacles on the lower portions of their faces. They require a translator device, a small sphere connected to their “mouths” by a tube, to facilitate speech between them and humans, as they do not have vocal cords.1 The tube was originally connecting their external brains to their body, but to use the creatures, far future humans would amputate the brain and instead fix the translator sphere where the brain used to be. There appears to be no gender differentiation among the Ood, though the Doctor seems to be able to determine their gender, when Donna refers to a dying Ood as an “it”, he replies that the Ood is “a ‘he’, not an ‘it’”.2 The Ood say they require no names or titles as they are “one”, but they do have designations given to them by humans such as “Ood 1 Alpha 1” or “Ood Sigma”. The Ood are empaths, sharing among themselves a low-level telepathic communication field. When reaching out with their telepathic fields, it can be heard as singing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ood
Fucking fantastic, doc.
We're all here because we're not all there.
Who do you have buried in your basement?
"I wouldn’t say I’m hitting five days a week…some weeks we won’t go at all." – Adam Dunn on his preparation routine for the 2012 season (1/24/12)
I find it stirring.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
Or maybe his lighter hands, due to the lack of nail length,
Has led to his bat speed problems. Food for thought.
by ScottyPods Ver2.0 on Feb 2, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Sox have corner OF's as "dishonorable mentions"
as worst position situations in MLB:
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/02/mlbs-worst-position-situations-2012-edition
Rios smiles.
We're all here because we're not all there.
I figured they were figuring Rios in left.
If they are talking De Aza and Viciedo, I’m actually pretty excited about the upside with both of them.
Does anyone else think this?
When I hear Jeff Manto?
Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969
dammit
Reply FIAL… It was a picture of MST3K’s guys in front of the “Manos, Hands of Fate”. Which would be a good descriptor of a hitting instructor…
Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969
welcome home.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
So the question is...
what would be considered acceptable progress this year? What are you looking for from Beckham in terms of a triple slash (just to simplify it). I’d be happy to see an average in the .270’s, an OBP in the .330’s and an SLG above .400. The closer he can get the walks and K’s, the better.
Jim, when will we see the prediction threads start up?
I'd be happy with a wOBA in the .310s.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Give me a year in the .260s/.320s/.390s range and then I'll start dreaming again.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Pragmatism, not idealism.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
And a song before that
he hoped you choked.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Those sound about right polodude
And even setting the bar there would give him decent value. It really is amazing just how far offensive production has fallen in the last few years.
2011 MLB Average OPS for position
2B=708
SS=695
3B=705
Everybody just stopped hitting. Brent Morel started 116 games last year at 3rd and hit 10 homers. Those 10 homers tied the number hit by Pirate and Dodger 3rd baseman in 162 games, and bested Detroit (9), KC (9), Philly (8), Angel (7), San Diego (7), Florida (6), and Seattle (5). Ridiculous. Seattle 3B had 590 plate appearances and drove in 39 runs!
by MelidoPerez on Feb 2, 2012 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No more greenies?
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
Misery loves company...(?)
For 2012 season: ALEX RIOS is my new TONY PENA.
by JofpGallagher on Feb 2, 2012 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
All your numbers have a 1 and a 3 in them.
Freud would have a field day with you.
We're all here because we're not all there.
but you posted that on a post of his. i was going to rec that, but can't do so now.
maybe you should punch yourself this time, then you’ll be fine on the next go round.
Taint punch.
Done and done.
We're all here because we're not all there.
by winningugly on Feb 2, 2012 4:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The taint punch this year is going to be for reals
Malort and Jolt Cola with a twist of powdered energy drink.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
that could convert me back to theism
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
Freud you say?
fuck, U-god and self-hate. Freud would have a field day.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Escobar
After the season ended it seemed that Omar would be replaced by Escobar.The absence of his name while talking about the infield by anybody who is management is surprising to me.He spent most of spring training in the major league camp last year but now the silence is deafening.There is certainly room on the roster.Maybe Lillibrigde backs up every position and we start the season with nine in the bullpen.
I'm not sure how much talk you're expecting to hear about the potential 25th man on the roster.
He’s on the 40 man roster. He’ll be at spring training.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
escobar needs more time at AAA.
“after the season” it was obvious when the white sox acquired ozzie martinez that he was the one they planned to have fill the utility infielder role.
Ozzie Martinez
I understand what you are saying but if that is the case who will be a left handed bat off the bench?
it's that sort of thinking that gets you mark kotsay.
i would imagine that of those who will be vying to be the fifth outfielder, someone who is left-handed may have a slight advantage.
by larry on Feb 2, 2012 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Right, because Escobar's switch hitting bat will provide so much more thunder off the bench.
Bottom line: their basically interchangeable in the majors at this point and Escobar could use more AAA time.
Haha "the silence is deafening".
What do you want Hahn and KW out there starting “Es-co-bar!” chants at SoxFest?
Jim, still working on a write-up for Soler?
What’s it gonna take (years and dollar-wise) to sign him? Depending on what those numbers are, I’d honestly like him a lot more than Cespedes.
I was never working on one.
At this point in the year, I don’t have a whole lot of time to speculate on players who may never enter the organization.
Sorry, could have sworn you said you were thinking of doing a write up on him.
Anyways, anyone have any idea what he will fetch in terms of a contract?
Sure, they want to score hot American babes
so they need Starlin Castro to help supply them with roofies.
"I wouldn’t say I’m hitting five days a week…some weeks we won’t go at all." – Adam Dunn on his preparation routine for the 2012 season (1/24/12)
Rushdie : Khomeini
U-God : OLD
by FlyingSpaghettiMonster on Feb 2, 2012 6:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Not sure why you limited it to the first round
They haven’t produced any position players at all since then, really.
Chris Young 2000
Mike Morse 2000
Ryan Sweeney? 2003
That’s it. That’s the list.
Beckham is my favorite player
If he can hit .270 with 15 hr and 70 rbis, and keep his defense the same I’d consider this season a major step toward success.
i wouldnt consider that a step toward success
id call that success
"Rhubarb, if you wouldn’t mind, ram your taint into your monitor as hard as you can." - joewho112
His defense will only improve if he is comfortable at the plate
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Agreed
And also he’s very new to second base, he still has potential to be better. But it all starts at the plate, and his biggest flaw there is his patience.
Considering that most likely means
Top 2 2nb basemen defensivelty in the entire league I have to agree
by 815Sox on Feb 9, 2012 12:31 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm more concerned with his plate discipline.
If he gets that back in order, odds are the other numbers will follow suit.
it was so exciting to see a kid come up and look confident and in control at the plate.
that feels like ages ago now.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
I feel like Ozzie had an effect
When Ozzie said Morel was good at moving runners on base, Morel tried too hard to move runners over rather than just hit the ball. I’m hoping Beckham has the same effect like we saw Morel last September, when he just relaxed and stayed patient. I’m not looking for a power hitter in Beckham, just a solid contributor.
Beckham
Can’t give up on him yet..he plays far too well at second base. Between him and the missile at SS our center infield is locked up. Just needs to get out of this hitting rut..hopefully the new round of coaches can at least somewhat fix the abhorrent hitting on this team in general. Though I think it would take some form of divine intervention to fix Dunn lol
Beckham and Alexei are becoming a nice little 2B/SS combo
I just wish Beckham would find a way to hit the ball better. He has shown flashes of becoming that position player we need, but very incositent
Question for the peanut gallery; do you see a different outcome if he was playing SS? Personally I don’t, but you never know about these things I guess.
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
Yeah
it was clearly his move from 3B to 2B. He only played 57 games in the minor leagues…57. Thats what I think it was. He didn’t know any better in 2009.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Does anyone know if any player has spent less time in the minors before sticking in the bigs? If so has anyone been successful?
I mean, Frank Thomas played 191 games in the minors before being called up. ARod had 170. Forcing him up to the big league club in 2009 because there wasn’t another viable option was horrible in hindsight (especially because we didn’t make the playoffs).
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
Dave Winfield.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Thanks guys
It took Robin Yount 4 years of MLB service to OPS .700+. Granted he was 21 when he did it but all this clearly points to Beckham being a HOFer, starting in his fourth year. Maybe no one should go to the minors?
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I forgot about Winfield!
Never spent a minute in the minors.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
John Olerud
was ok
Well, boys, it's a round ball and a round bat and you got to hit the ball square. ~Joe Schultz, 1969
by zevsenesca on Feb 3, 2012 4:45 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
John Olerud was really good
Talk about a guy who would have benefited from playing in a different time. These whippersnapper GMs would be knocking themselves over to sign Olerud if he played today.
if you like soft heads.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Rick Monday
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
implied in this discussion i think is players who actually stayed in the majors after their debut.
also, it was a lot easier to go straight to the big leagues 50+ years ago considering the wider disparity in talent between the best and worst players. i was trying to come up with relatively recent examples.
kind of.
the minors then weren’t the minors as we know them today. the teams those guys played on weren’t affiliated with major league teams. they had to be bought from their “minor league” teams. williams did play a season in boston’s system after being bought. san francisco held out for a big package for joe and eventually got it. as part of that package, they got to keep joe on their team for another year. joe was good enough to play for the yankees in ‘35. and certainly was good enough to play in the majors prior to that (though maybe not for the yankees). williams probably could have played in the majors after being signed, too. further seasoning didn’t hurt either player for sure but another issue was that it was a bit more difficult to plan your team when you’re buying a young player a couple months before spring training (and not knowing if you’ll get a deal done) instead of developing him in your system for a few years.
and part of the whole bonus babies policy
was that they had to be on the big league club after signing over x amount of dollars.
Being anointed as the savior after 57 games must be jawing
Perhaps that was it!
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
Not suggesting anything
I was asking you guys if you bought that. Some have said that. I have disagreed with some though
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
the argument that changing positions affected his offense doesn't make any sense to me
changing positions would perhaps hurt someone’s confidence in the field and he may carry that to the plate, but as well as he played the position last year, how could his confidence be hurt? Seems like just the opposite might happen.
by Shoeless In SC on Feb 3, 2012 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
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