'Pounds of muscle' and the White Sox: A brief, bleak history
by Jim Margalus on Feb 20, 2012 6:00 AM CST
in White Sox History
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While White Sox pitchers and catchers don't report until Thursday, Mark Gonzales let us open one present early with a sunny spring story about Jordan Danks.
Danks is in need of a good spring as much as anybody. Therefore, Danks is more ready than ever, and he has his reasons to believe he finally deserves a spot on the 40-man roster.
The strikeouts have kept him down, and he's taken steps to address it. He took extensive video courses to break down his swing, and he has worked on his two-strike approach. He also enlisted John Danks to pitch to him and share his secrets on getting his younger brother out.
That's all well and good. But this part...
When Jordan Danks arrives Tuesday at Camelback Ranch, he hopes the White Sox's coaching staff takes notice of the additional 15 pounds of muscle on his 6-foot-5 frame that could help result in a major league roster spot in the near future.
... is not good.
"Pounds of muscle" is one of those spring training phrases that signifies a player making public his dedication to improving. The problem is, in most cases, a player who has outwardly dedicated himself to improving is the same player who is in dire need of improvement.
I searched through 10 years' worth of archives for the exact phrase "pounds of muscle," and I found seven other references to White Sox who bulked up during the offseason. In every case, a worse year followed. In some cases, disaster ensued.
Gordon Beckham, 2011
While Beckham was preparing to take batting practice at Camelback Ranch in Glendale, Ariz., last week, Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf strolled by.
Reinsdorf marveled at the 20 pounds of muscle Beckham packed on over the winter, and the 24-year-old infielder explained how the added strength is only going to help in 2011.-- Daily Herald, March 4, 2011
The result: Beckham's OPS continued its decline, from .695 to .633. In December, he told Scott Merkin that he felt "a little heavy and puffy" coming into spring training, which might be revisionist history. It doesn't really matter whether he knew it, though, because his problems are mechanical and mental in nature.
John Danks, 2009
In shape, or else: Danks added 15 pounds of muscle, pushing his 6-foot-1-inch frame to 220 pounds in the off-season.
The result: Danks had a good year in 2009, but it was a step down from his 2008. His ERA, home run rate, walk rate, WHIP and strikeout rate all went the wrong way. He did pitch 200 regular-season innings for the first time, at least.
Jerry Owens, 2008
Owens led off the bottom of the first with a perfectly executed bunt in the first-base hole, then scored on a hit-and-run by Orlando Cabrera. Owens singled in his second at-bat before a tweaked groin ended his afternoon.
That didn't end the hype that has surrounded Owens since he checked into camp with 10 pounds of muscle added to his frame.-- Chicago Sun-Times, Feb. 26, 2008
The result: Owens came into camp set on staking his claim to center field and stealing 65 bases for the White Sox, but that tweaked groin was actually a tear in his right adductor. His career still hasn't recovered from that setback.
Mike MacDougal, 2008
Feeling that he was "too thin and not as strong as I need to be," MacDougal also put on 10 pounds of muscle through offseason work with a personal trainer. Those changes already have caught Guillen's eye, with the manager praising MacDougal following Sunday's bullpen session.
The result: MacDougal walked seven batters and hit another over eight innings before he was demoted at the end of April. He didn't resurface until rosters expanded, but his control problems persisted and he was outrighted at the end of the season. He threw only 17 innings, which remains his lowest single-season total since 2005.
Brandon McCarthy, 2006
McCarthy recently purchased a residence in the Phoenix area and has added 10 pounds of muscle under the supervision of physical therapist Brett Fischer, whose clients include Randy Johnson and Joe Nathan.
-- Chicago Tribune, Dec. 5, 2006
The result: McCarthy was traded to the Texas Rangers two weeks after this story, and he would soon endure the first of four injury-ravaged years. This one involved a stress fracture in his right scapula.
Paul Konerko, 2003
Konerko was in the top five in all three triple-crown categories at the All-Star break with a .328 batting average (third), 20 home runs (tied for fifth) and 71 RBI (second). But he batted just .215 with two home runs and nine RBI in July.
Konerko admitted that he ran out of gas in the second half and hit the weight room this winter to combat that. He estimates he put on 8 or 9 pounds of muscle.-- Sun-Times, Feb. 2, 2003
The result: Konerko had the worst season of his life, hitting .234/.305/.399. And it could have been worse, because he was at .185/.260/.265 at the end of June.
Mark L. Johnson, 2002
Flying start: In his annual race against Josh Paul for the White Sox ' backup catchers job, Mark Johnson is off and running.
Carrying 15 extra pounds of muscle this spring, Johnson has 3 hits and 2 RBI in his first 5 at-bats.-- Daily Herald, March 6, 2002
The result: Johnson did win the backup job. But he also hit .209/.297/.293 (57 OPS+), setting career lows in those categories. That's saying something, considering he was always a defense-first catcher.
BONUS: Tim Hulett, 1986
Hulett took steps to remedy that problem this year. He stayed in Chicago over the winter to participate in a rigorous weight program set up by Sox fitness director Al Vermeil. The workouts gave him eight additional pounds of muscle and improved his agility and balance.
The result: Well, part of it worked. Hulett hit 17 homers in 1986, which was by far the highest total of his career (next-best: seven). Then again, it was the highest total of his career because he somehow got 552 plate appearances despite hitting .231/.260/.379 (69 OPS+). That was a major decline from his decent rookie season, and he was a bench player for the rest of his career, although occasionally a good one.
For what it's worth, I thought Alexei Ramirez also added "pounds of muscle" over the offseason last year, but he resisted putting a number on it:
Ramirez has put on muscle - he's sure of it - but ask him how much weight he's gained and he can't tell you, since he hasn't stepped on a scale this winter.
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Ramirez: pounds of bone. Fixed.
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
Baseball players should not work out in the offseason
except for swinging a bat and stretching, goddammit. Fine motor skills and reflexes cannot be jacked with. Do the repeatable exercises you will be doing for 162 games. It ain’t football.
We're all here because we're not all there.
They shouldn't overdo it
but I would think some weight training should be a part of every player’s offseason routine.
Sigh.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Feb 20, 2012 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
Did I fish you in?
There’s a few reason besides better drugs that careers are being prolonged. Strength and flexibility exercising is a large component of that. It’s why at my age I’m in better shape than my Dad at the same age.
But bulking up for its own sake is not helpful.
We're all here because we're not all there.
by winningugly on Feb 21, 2012 6:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
My father played college ball in the 60's and lifting weights was off-limits
It was frowned upon.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
I don't think building muscle has benefits that outweigh costs
For hitters attempting to play the better part of 162 games or starters trying to make 200IP, I only see this as an injury liability…. If you spend so much time adding muscle weight and you don’t do a thorough job of strengthening your entire body, you’re just asking for some kind of muscle/joint injury, and for older players you certainly have to start worrying about cartilage/ligament stresses.
For a younger hitter, physical development isn’t really as beneficial in terms of pure muscle as it could be, say, in terms of coordination. Get your swing down. Get your timing down. Develop your eye.
Players think adding muscle will help them put the ball over the fences, but if they can’t put the bat on it in the first place it’s a whole lotta nuthin.
A vision from heaven! I shall indeed compose a rap about deez nutz!
Great Analysis
Jim you are the best. I think we all would have guessed that “pounds of Muscle” is not a good thing, but I’ve never seen an analysis on it. You are truly THE EXPERT on everything White Sox!!
Breaking in the new knee pads?
"People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage."
John Kenneth Galbraith
by Chiburb on Feb 20, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
sounds like wu's been mentoring again
by Shoeless In SC on Feb 20, 2012 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
i don't know about hitters... but for pitchers i just really don't see the benefits of putting on pounds of muscle.
have you ever seen a jacked guy that can throw the ball? i haven’t. you loose all your flexibility.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
I'd agree with that to the extent you mean the upper body
But I’ve seen and heard of some pitchers with huge legs from lifting weights. I was under the impression that it helps with driving off the mound, etc.
Found this article on Roger Clemens’ workout routine: http://baseball-football-fan.com/roger-clemens-workout-routine/
Lots of cardio and leg/core stuff; EX: “Most pitching power comes from the legs.”
by ceverettsdinosaurs on Feb 20, 2012 8:13 AM CST up reply actions
Farnsworth?
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
neal cotts signed with the rangers...
it was kind of sad seeing him talk about his career being over at sox fest. i hope he makes it. still a really young guy.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/rangers-sign-neal-cotts.html
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
When I searched for that Clemens article, I found this:
http://www.mlbplayerworkouts.com/adam
Interesting stuff, especially about the DHing. Not that his stance on it wasn’t known before last year. But interesting nonetheless.
by ceverettsdinosaurs on Feb 20, 2012 8:21 AM CST reply actions
Jordan Danks
Someone get him a tennis racket, then he might and I still stress might be able to hit major league pitching… 15 lbs of muscle who the heck cares, so now his batting practice power that never shows up in games will be just slightly more impressive and his defense which is basically the only asset he has and his speed will likely decline a bit… awesome
Mike MacDougal
"Statistics are about as interesting as first base coaches" Jim Bouton
by Grinder Rule #42 on Feb 20, 2012 9:17 AM CST reply actions
I saw the headline for this article and laughed a little
because I think the same thing when I hear about athletes putting on pounds of muscle.
Pounds of muscle, which by the way, are always exaggerations. Take Beckham and his 20 lbs of added muscle on his 6’0" frame.
Thanks Jim
I read the article earlier this morning and thought the exact same thing everyone is thinking: “But how will that actually improve your ability to not strike out?” I know that he said he was working on his two-strike approach also. But the muscle thing? Seems like it will just slow down his swing and make it worse.
You realize that by doing a Lexis search for "Pounds of muscle + White Sox" you've put yourself under the gaze of the FBI for the rest of your natural life, don't you
by Sox-35th on Feb 20, 2012 10:16 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I guess this is like
….like putting a 426 cuda engine to a Chevette that misses a wheel and also not allowing the driver to listen to Lynyrd Skynyrd….
For 2012 season: ALEX RIOS is my new TONY PENA.
most of us mutato-heads succumbed to the siren song of the road early in our youths.
but rusty dusty was born to it.
some say he removed his own heart and replaced it with a borg-warner fuel pump.
others claim he drinks old crankcase oil. still others swear he can pee hot anti-freeze.
you hear a lot of weird things about old rusty dusty…
…and every damn one of them is true!
TMNT #30 by guest artist Rick Veitch
by e-gus on Feb 20, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Re: weight training
Jim already hit the nail on the head:
“Pounds of muscle” is one of those spring training phrases that signifies a player making public his dedication to improving. The problem is, in most cases, a player who has outwardly dedicated himself to improving is the same player who is in dire need of improvement.
It has nothing to do with lifting weights (if they even did), it has everything to do with marking a player as on a crap trajectory that they hope to do something about. Naturally, most can’t. Trainers these days are well aware of how to add good muscle to baseball players without losing inflexibility.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
Nope!
They should never work out. Only calisthenics and wind sprints.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
they should cut down trees with a blunt axe.
send them all to the pacific-northwest prior to spring training.
For years I've said, the Sox need to ditch Herm and hire Mickey as head trainer
If you can catch a chicken, you can catch a ball
@gpierce112
Hermy
I wonder what weight training program he is on.
hmm... might be too muscle-build-y
better cut out the diet of raw eggs too.
I love seasons too. That's why I live in a place that skips the shitty ones.
by thatshortkid on Feb 20, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
But who says it's the trainers responsible for adding this muscle?
Don’t players follow their own regimens in the offseason? Hell, if a player has a crap year and doesn’t hit as many dingers as he feels he should, he might blame the trainer for “not knowing his body” or some shit, and seek out a different program in the offseason.
"The Sox have a better home record than the Twins, but...we're not at home right now." -DJ
Fair enough.
I can still envision a scenario in which a petulant player might throw a fit and bulk up against everybody’s advice. That whole “steroid era” thing comes to mind – how many trainers (aside from McNamara) were advocating the use of steroids?
"The Sox have a better home record than the Twins, but...we're not at home right now." -DJ
the whole steroid era thing is one of the primary reasons why players wouldn't do it.
in any event, when you find yourself writing “i can still envision a scenario”, that means it’s a scenario that you shouldn’t spend much time on.
I don't think it's that outlandish.
But is the point that the bulking up is irrelevant or just false?
it's pretty outlandish.
you’re positing that a player both goes against his employer’s wishes and common sense. it’s also quite a trick to bulk up significantly in an offseason.
and the point is that it’s both. “fifteen pounds of muscle” is rather ridiculous. it’s also rather unlikely that a player’s problem is that he isn’t strong enough (or wasn’t in shape). danks, for example, is 25, not 19.
Also, I think you may have misconstrued what I was saying.
I wasn’t actually suggesting that the players will continue to use steroids. I think the primary deterrent, however, is the harsher penalties and testing program. What’s to stop or deter players from doing something similar but legal?
i understood your point.
one of the things learned from the steroid era is that flexibility is a rather important part of being a successful baseball player.
That's all well and good, but
a) Who’s to say that the players learned this lesson?
b) I don’t think this lesson is at all novel – why else would weightlifting have been “frowned upon” (as Rhubarb mentioned earlier) in the ’60s?
Look, I get that these stories about players bulking up are exaggerated and more about PR than anything else. And kudos to Jim (and you and Colin) for pointing out just how irrelevant the increased muscle ends up being. But I would not be surprised to learn that some players have a misguided notion that their hitting power is somewhat connected to the size of their upper bodies, and act accordingly.
Weight-lifting was frowned upon in the baseball program at Valparaiso University, 50 years ago
That doesn’t mean it is right, it was the belief of that coach and at that time. My father says the belief was prevalent though in many programs back then. As colin said, now-a-days weight lifting can be used to create lean, flexible muscle not necessarily juicehead monster roid freaks. I never lifted weights but had decent power because I had strong legs, if I had done some light upper-body work I probably could have added to thrust. If he really added “15 lbs” of muslce maybe its five in the legs, some in the core and back and some in the arms. What colin was saying is there is more than enough information for Danks, trainers, organizations to know what hinders and what helps.
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
go hang out with some baseball players in their twenties.
these guys have been ingrained, most since they were high school age, with some overarching principles about strength training for their sport. yes, there are idiots out there who don’t have this common sense and can’t follow basic directions from their employers. no one is denying this. they are a small minority. and they don’t tend to be the types to have articles written about them because they’re the types who don’t get out of A ball.
Everything that you guys are saying makes sense.
But it is belied by the steroid era, and of course other eras in which star players, not just the A ball ones, would capitalize on any and every perceived physical advantage, legal or not. I’m not trying to be one of those pious HOF voters who decries everything and everybody associated with steroids, but I’m having trouble imagining these multi-millionaires as obedient doggies who will obey every one of Uncle Herm’s wishes.
likely because what they were doing can't be achieved naturally.
bonds and clemens (apparently) started using when they were in their thirties and on the downside of their physical peaks.
what are we talking about now?
i thought we were talking about conditioning. the point is that there’s a better way to accomplish the goal players want – to be better at baseball. that better way isn’t adding bulk per se, particularly in the upper body. what a baseball player needs is “explosive” power. having big arms doesn’t help much. you want core strength, in particular.
and let me know how well it works when you don’t do what your employer tells you to do. yeah, there are guys who can get away with doing their own thing to some degree. those are the guys with long-term deals and they tend to know what works for them (or they can pay the best trainers – the ones who know what they’re doing – to give them what works) as they’re the ones who have been quite successful. and it no longer includes randomly deciding one offseason to bulk up a whole lot. you think jordan danks is going to do his own thing? gordon beckham? the majority of players? how many guys do you see arriving at spring training looking like they overdid it in the weight room?
?
So you’re saying my summer in Cuba putting on 35 pounds of muscle isn’t going to get me an invitation to camp?
I was counting on being the righty Adam Dunn.
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
by hoosier3 on Feb 20, 2012 11:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
My wives Winter of putting on 10 pounds of not
muscle should go for something, right?
by South Side Expat on Feb 21, 2012 12:37 AM CST up reply actions
Let me try this one more time, and then I give up (as so many have done).
I already granted the point, and I agree with you and Jim, that the specific example of “Player X gained Y lbs. in muscle” makes little sense and is most likely a reckless exaggeration, if not an outright lie. But then you made a blanket statement that almost all successful ballplayers always listen to their employers when it comes to their physical condition. And that does not ring true to me, because while there was a lot of looking the other way when it came to steroids, there’s no way the teams weren’t taking at least a ceremonial stance against them.
And beyond steroids, you have things like HGH, greenies, amphetamines, etc., that lots of players were popping despite somebody telling them, “Don’t take this crap. It minimally, if at all, helps you in the short term, and it’ll fuck you over in the long term.”
If you want to believe that players always do what’s best for their bodies, fine. I disagree.
no one is saying player's "do what's best for their bodies".
i’m saying players do what’s best for their baseball performance, pretty much regardless of possible health concerns in the distant future. what you are suggesting is that a player is told what to do by a team, the player has been drilled in what to do for years by a team, the player knows, unless he is literally a complete idiot, that what the team is telling him to do (and not to do) is the best way to improve/maintain but, because he is a petulant complete idiot, will do what he’s not supposed to do anyway. the population that does that kind of stuff is quite small. and has generally been weeded out in the low minors, either by playing themselves out of baseball or having come into a baseball season (or whenever) having done the wrong thing and been told in no uncertain terms to never do that again.
since for some reason you decided to introduce steroids into this discussion, let me put it this way. if jose bautista was sent back in time to 1998, mcgwire and sosa would be a sideshow to him. simply, we know more about what makes someone a better baseball player than in 1998. just like in 2026, they’ll know more.
a pound of flesh for your transgressions!
It came from afar and traveled sedately on, a shrug of eternity
*losing flexibility
oy.
So fast he could hit a ball up the middle and it would hit him in the ass sliding into second.
most of this is spin
do mlb players actually weigh in? has anybody ever documented genuine real pounds added? or “real strength” added? I never heard of anybody actually doing this. Even if the teams measured it, it doesn’t get released.
… but, I remember when Robin Yount filled out.
and I remember when Terry Forster filled out too.
and then there was when Barry Bonds filled out.
but i’ll agree- if you’re not a good player already, it doesn’t matter.
Anybody that thinks that you can't weight train to improve baseball activities is an idiot.
And anybody that thinks baseball players shouldn’t mess with the “delicate balance” is a fool.
Jim’s piece is going to be wrongly interpreted here.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
like babe ruth
i got stronger with hot dogs and beer.
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
There's absolutely no question that weightlifting for strength training purposes will help any athlete, including baseball players
If you think that weightlifting won’t help baseball players, then by extension you have to agree that anabolic steroids also don’t help baseball players that much (unless you think their positive effects were simply recuperative)
Just one example, it takes an enormous amount of strength to check your swing. It’s similar to a wide receiver making a quick cut back towards the QB… hitting the brakes and stopping your momentum requires strength.
But saying someone “added 15 lbs of muscle” tells us almost nothing. First of all, how do we know he actually did add 15 lbs of muscle? Unless Jordan has a physical trainer that knows what they’re doing measuring his bodyfat % with calipers, there’s no way to tell whether any weight he’s added is muscle or fat (and even the best designed strength programs almost inevitably add some bodyfat in addition to muscle). It’s possible that he had a diligent and honest physical trainer, but the nice round number “15” makes me think that he’s just naming a number off the to of his head that he thinks sounds about right.
Second, even if he’s being 100% truthful and he really did add 15lbs of muscle, there’s no way of knowing from the given information whether he will be any stronger or athletic for it. He didn’t say “I brought my deadlift from 315 to 405” which would be a pretty good indication that he’s stronger. He just said he added 15 lbs of muscle. But an increase in the size of a muscle doesn’t necessarily mean that muscle is stronger. There are all sorts of bodybuilding-oriented workouts that will add size and mass to a muscle without adding any strength or power that would translate to the field. In fact, some bodybuilding workouts will actually sap an athlete’s ability to generate power.
It’s pretty rare these days that a professional baseball player won’t do some sort of strength training. But there’s a reason you hear about Jerry Owens putting on pounds of muscle over the offseason and not Albert Pujols, and Jim hit the nail right on the head.
by Red Line Trane on Feb 21, 2012 12:57 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
all good points except...
there are three more methods that I know of that can accurately determine body fat %: air displacement using a bod pod machine, DEXA (dual energy x-ray absorptiometry), and underwater weighing. These options are all available for a MLB player.
by Shoeless In SC on Feb 21, 2012 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
this is true. the calipers are terribly inaccurate for a slew of reasons. i'm partial to the DEXA.
to me, it’s the most accurate and informative. i’d encourage everyone to have it done. it’s eye-opening.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Feb 21, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
let's just say that the accuracy of the DEXA scan is humbling.
it measures visceral fat that usually flies under the radar with lesser methods.
and that’s mostly diet dependent to correct. which ain’t fun.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
So that means you ain't telling?
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
"Humbling" says it all.
Why do you think he has not attended a meth-up?
We're all here because we're not all there.
that means i doubt most people here have an accurate frame of reference for what a DEXA scan reports
versus pretty much any other body fat measurement system.
here’s what one guy who did all those tests in the same day found in variance:
7%- SlimGuide calipers
7.1-9.4%- Accu-measure
9.5%- BodyMetrix ultrasound
11.3%- DEXA scan
13.3%- BodPod
and i came into my test only having used calipers before. i was shocked that my numbers came in where they did, so i’m pretty sure the rest of you probably have the same misconceptions about what your body fat %s are based on how you may have calculated it before. and humbling says more about my ego than my results. i still look fucking sexy as hell.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
Not me.
Projected age of death is 92, according to very reputable Websites.
We're all here because we're not all there.
projected age of your face is 92
according to this very reputable Website.
by Trooper on Feb 21, 2012 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
so what? you'll still be dead a long time before the rest of us.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Feb 21, 2012 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
~
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
I'm solidly in the normal BMI range
but I don’t work out. I don’t wanna know what my % is. Probably 20%?
I’m curious what some players on the White Sox are. I recall reading in Game of Shadows that Bonds % was near 4% at one point. That’s ridiculous.
by Shoeless In SC on Feb 21, 2012 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure you're aware of the many limitations of BMI. It's the batting average of body fat measurements.
Also, there is no way Bonds was anywhere near 4%. Unless It was the mid-80s. And I still doubt it.
The guys I know that run a DEXA scan center (1 former D1 football player and another ex-NFLer) almost never see single digits. MMA guys. Competitive swimmers. These are the rare types that crack 10%.
Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be.
by MarketMaker on Feb 21, 2012 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
I so very much miss my high school swimming BMI reading.
by South Side Expat on Feb 21, 2012 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
This.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
I know Penny Hardaway had a 4% body fat measurement,
according to his former doc, but I don’t know how it was measured in the mid-1990’s.
We're all here because we're not all there.
Isacc Bruce at his peak
"Rooting for the Twins is just a roundabout way of rooting for a first-round playoff bye for the Yankees." by big_fun
isaac the reverend bruce was a fucking monster.
what a great underrated WR
Kenwo4life=ratings. Just call me Mr. USA Today.
Jim, this made mulley and hanley this morning
Did a bit, about 5 mins on this and cited you and the site. Around the 840am mark, I think.
"Good teams win games. Bad teams have meetings."
by BobbySouthSide on Feb 21, 2012 6:11 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions 3 recs
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