White Sox acquire MacDougal

by The Cheat on Jul 24, 2006 4:22 PM CDT in News Comment 32 comments

White Sox get: Mike MacDougal
Royals get: Daniel Cortes, Tyler Lumsden

First things first. This deal immediately upgrades the White Sox bullpen, likely sending Sean Tracey to the minors. MacDougal is a skinny fireballing reliever with terrible mechanics and injury issues. Combined with Bobby Jenks, Neal Cotts, and Matt Thornton he gives the Sox 4 high strikeout arms under team control through the '09 season. Being under White Sox control doesn't do much good when your on the DL, however. MacDougal will inherit right-handed set up duties when he isn't rehabbing in AAA Charlotte.

As for the players the White Sox gave up. Tyler Lumsden was drafted as a sandwich pick in the '04 draft. He struggled in his first season of professional baseball largely because he was injured. He sat out all of last season recovering from off-season surgery, and has returned to top form this season. Lumsden has a heavy fastball that sits around 92-93 and can touch 95 or higher, a rare trait for a left-handed pitcher. He also features a good slider and has the best GB/FB ratio of any Sox starting pitching prospect.

Daniel Cortes was an 8th round draft pick last season. He's got a large frame and a live arm. He struggled early this season as the youngest player on a bad Kannapolis club, but has rebounded to be one of the top pitchers in the Sally League the last 2+ months. He's years away from sniffing the major leagues, but he might have the second best arm, behind Lumsden, in the Sox system.

The Sox are a better team right now, thank to this deal, but you have got to get a better return on trades involving your top minor league arms. The White Sox bullpen was largely put together thanks to a number of shrewd moves by Kenny Williams; Bobby Jenks off of waivers, David Riske for a non-roster invitee, Matt Thornton for a DFA candidate.

Given the volatility of bullpen arms, MacDougal's inability to stay on the field, and the relatively cheap price Williams has paid for bullpen help in the past, this deal looks like a huge overpay by the Sox.

Sean Tracey was optioned to Charlotte to make room for MacDougal.

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MacDougal

I think you are over-exagerating his injury history. It is there, but it isn't like he is capable of a full season. He pitched 70.3 innings last year and 64.0 innings in 03. He was hurt in 04 (wasn't it a virus?) and he just got off the 60 day DL this year. It is a risk, but I think there is a legit reward for this.

It is a high price to pay, higher than I would prefer...but it could work out.

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Jul 24, 2006 4:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I won't pretend to be nearly as

knowledgeable about each of our minor leaguers (despite my affinity for Baseball America, I just can't shove any more baseball into my head without shoving important career-related stuff out) as many of you, but I think it's ridiculous for us to believe that other GMs and scouts don't know exactly what Cheat and some of the others know about our guys. Obviously, then, no team is going to give up a proven big league arm for some of our crap prospects with little reasonable shot at making the Show (whether in '06, '07, '09 or beyond). The Royals suck, but Dayton Moore isn't stupid. What did anybody think we'd have to give up, Widger and a box of baseballs? If he can stay healthy (big if, I understand), we know MacDougal has very good big league stuff. Right now, we don't know if either Lumsden or Cortes ever will have any sort of big league stuff at all.

by Toonderstrook on Jul 24, 2006 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And by big league stuff,

I mean we know he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Not that he has three out pitches or throws hard from the left side.

by Toonderstrook on Jul 24, 2006 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

New World

The White Sox are the defending World Champs. People in general are not eager to deal or improve them. Kenny has mentioned this several times and I believe he does have to pay more sometimes for things than others might have to right now.
I admit it does look like a lot but the key word is LOOK. I will pull my freaking hair out if people pitch a bitch about prospects. I know you approved Cheat but Kenny was soundly thumped for the Garcia deal. They were wrong. And I dont want to hear about it coming back later as someone pointed out. They won the World Series.
Kenny has figured out that prospects get you fired or worse sometimes keep you from fulfilling promise. Anybody wish Ron Schuler would have traded some of those prospects a few years ago?
And most important. The Sox are now the evil empire of the Central Division. Winning now has filled our stadium. Winning now has allowed us to have a $100+ payroll. The Sox spend $50 on the starting staff. If Mcarthy gets moved (And I too hope its more than just a rental) its great that he is young and cheap but frankly that is not important anymore. We are with the big boys now. A pitcher moved allows another $8-10 million pitcher to take his place.

Welcome to the new world.

by Tdogg on Jul 24, 2006 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Royals fans should be very happy with this deal

It's the first real sign that Dayton Moore is moving the club in the right direction. The royals can't compete in the central for the next few seasons. They need to concentrate on acquiring players who will be useful to the team in the years to come. I think it also foreshadows the style in which he will be building his club.

Lumsden and Cortes are both guys who, if scouts have seen them in the last few months, are considered projectable arms, despite some lackluster stats. I think it speaks to a strong emphasis on scouting by Moore & Co., and a shrewd move to sell off a player who was about to become more expensive when he didn't figure to be a contributing member of the next Royals division title contender.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 24, 2006 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Quick question...

Can you name one guy with Lumsden's AA strikeout numbers who succeeded in the major leagues? As anything other than a junkball, crafty lefty type?

I'm just curious.

by BridgeportJoe on Jul 24, 2006 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

But that doesn't mean he won't succeed. I think he compares more to sinkerballing righthanders like Jake Westbrook et al.

I think he has a better chance at success than does Broadway, who the Sox are probably holding onto because he was a "#1 pick."

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 24, 2006 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Westbrook's actually a good call

But the point stands. In general, if guys can put wood on the ball in AA, they are going to drill you in the majors. Power arm or not.

by BridgeportJoe on Jul 24, 2006 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

do the sox

have a reputation for being unrealistic and stubborn about the value of their #1 picks in the KW era?

by Ryno on Jul 24, 2006 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they've gone the safe route lately

with KMac and Broadway. Both are guys who should be traded unless they look like top of the rotation starters, which neither figures to do.

KW held on to Borchard for a while, though that probably had to do with JR wanting a return on his initial investment more than anything.

He traded Ring as quickly as he possibly could, but has held onto all others.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 24, 2006 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree on Macdougal, but not on McCarthy

#3 starters that are Dirt cheap and under your control for 6 years are incredibly valuable quantities, even for high payroll teams. Why?, because they allow you trade one of your expensive starters over the offseason, use that money to sign a free agent (Alfonso Soriano?) and still keep McCarthy.

I would trade anything in our system except McCarthy and BA for Soriano. You want Pods, Vazquez or Freddy, and Fields? Heck, I'll even throw Broadway in there. But no B-Mac.

by bhoov on Jul 24, 2006 4:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i feel the same way

about BA, but B Mac for Soriano is worth it.

the_E_23 on yahoo sox message boards...

by EricGthee23 on Jul 24, 2006 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any word?

If MacDougal can make it in time for tonight's game....

by stanchar on Jul 24, 2006 4:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Cheat, what would you be willing.....

to give up for Soriano?

by bhoov on Jul 24, 2006 4:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not much

I wouldn't be in any hurry to acquire him. IMO, the biggest positive trading for Sori provides is eliminating the possibility of Pods sticking around next season.

I would make sure that any deal for Sori included Pods. Beyond that, I would say hold onto Sweeney, Anderson, and McCarthy... Any other minor leaguer could be thrown in and I wouldn't care.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 24, 2006 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

MacD was a good trade.

Jon Rauch was Lumsden a few years ago. Last year it was Gio Gonzales. Have a look at his nimbers this year. Whats he doing now? KW has had great success drafting LHPs and trading them for players he can use now. I think the MacDougal deal was a good trade, and Im STOKED about the possibility of replacing Podsedinks girl arm, no range, third strike taking ass with a 5 tool(4 tool?) proven stud like Soriano, especially if they can keep him here after 2006.

the_E_23 on yahoo sox message boards...

by EricGthee23 on Jul 24, 2006 4:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes!

What is all this whining and gnashing of teeth? Losing BMac does nothing negative now. Would I rather dump Vasquez and get an above-average starter? Yes - but ain't gonna happen with who is out there.

by randy77 on Jul 24, 2006 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ehh....

Would I rather dump Vasquez and get an above-average starter? Yes

BMac is an above-average starter

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Jul 24, 2006 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rauch is awesome

Rauch is awesome this year. 56 K in 56 IP, and a K/BB ratio above 2.0. And he's still only 27. You'll hear his name again in a big role.

by Tybor on Jul 24, 2006 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's amazing...

Most pitchers don't make it back from labrum surgery (although Gil Meche migh be another). I'm glad the injury didn't end his career.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 24, 2006 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

By the way...

I agree with what's been said so far re: McCarthy. Unless they are planning to put Cotts back in the rotation at some point, you just can't trade Brandon without any majors-ready prospects in the wings. There's just too big of a risk that somebody goes down. Or isn't effective (cough, cough, everybodyexceptContrerasandGarland).

by BridgeportJoe on Jul 24, 2006 4:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

if you trade pods...

who hits leadoff? Gooch, BA? and i know you have to throw in Podsednik into the deal, because there would be no position for him to play. i think you have to send them fields too, since there is no spot in the lineup where he can contribute. crede's not going anywhere, and he's not cracking this lineup in the OF.

by Senator Konerko on Jul 24, 2006 4:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Who hits leadoff?

Soriano.

Off the top of my head, his OBP is right where Podsednik's is at, if not better. Obviously, his power is a million times better than Podsednik's, and he's pretty much the same player on the basepaths.

I'm with Cheat -- I'd throw in just about every minor leaguer, just not McCarthy. Haeger + Phillips + Fields + Podsednik? Broadway + Fields + Podsednik?

by CWSKeith on Jul 24, 2006 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beg to differ.

"i think you have to send them fields too, since there is no spot in the lineup where he can contribute."

RF/LF if Crede sticks around. If Crede stays reasonably hot and ends up with a .305/.350/.550 season with 35 HR and GG defense, I might even consider trading him. He's not going to be cheap for much longer, and that's his top end right there.

by BridgeportJoe on Jul 24, 2006 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know it's hard for us to wrap our head around

But maybe guys don't have to be cheap to be on the Sox anymore? I agree that this year is probably the pinnacle of what you're likely to get out of Joe Crede, but I imagine he could keep it up for a few more years. If so, he's worth the money, especially considering his defensive value (vs the downgrade to Fields). But, my point is, it appears that the increased revenue generated by the Sox title, constant Cell-outs, and increased popularity (seriously, I see so much more Sox gear around town now it's ridiculous. I mean, you even see attractive young women on the north side of town in Sox gear these days. It's unreal), combined with Reinsdorf's willingness to pour all that new revenue right back into the team, has put the Sox among baseball's financial elite.

I'm certainly not advocating for foolish overpaying or anything, and KW should still be looking to maximinze value at all times, but it may be the case that we can simply afford more good players now. I like that idea.

by Ryno on Jul 24, 2006 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

It's not really a question of being able to afford Crede or not. It's a question of whether you want Crede (effectively signed to a 2/$18M or so contract), or whether you want Josh Fields PLUS whatever Crede can get you back. I mean, what if you could get a major league-ready young starter and a couple of top flight AA/AAA hitting prospects?

I'm not saying you necessarily do it, but if someone is going to give you a bunch of high quality, high minors talent for an expensive, league-average hitting, very good fielding 3Bman with an adequate substitute in the wings, you really have to think about it.

by BridgeportJoe on Jul 24, 2006 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

2/18 is unrealistic

Crede will get 5-6M next year, and 7+ in '08.

I forsee him signing a 3 year deal buying out a year of free agency. That deal should be around $20M.

Also, I don't think you can overstate the downgrade defensively from Crede to Fields. The rest of what you say it true regarding what Crede can bring in return, but KW appears to be constantly putting the best possible product on the field, prospects be damned.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 24, 2006 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough.

On both points. I was figuring that Joe would get $7-8M after this year with those numbers, and $10-11M next year if he puts them up again (a bit of a stretch, I know), but 2/$13M isn't that far off. The point was that he's not dirt cheap (a la McCarthy, Anderson, Jenks, Cotts, etc.).

As for the defensive drop off, fine. But 3B really is in the middle of the spectrum defensively, so I'm not sure how much you lose with a mediocre defensive 3B guy.

I guess the bottom line is that Konerko and Thome are old, Dye and Iguchi may not be here past 2007, neither Sweeney nor Anderson are any guaranty to hit, and other than Fields, I'm not sure the Sox have anything that they'd be willing to put in the batters' box in 2008 and beyond. If trading a good-but-replaceable player like Crede gives you a couple of guys you can test out, I'm not sure you don't do that.

by BridgeportJoe on Jul 24, 2006 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holy Crap!!!

I checked this site 2 hours ago hoping for a recap and I get all this craziness. I don't know what to think...but for some reason I'm excited...excited like I'm at a casino playing poker right before I go all in. Unfortunately, the excitment dies down quickly when I lose. But we haven't lost yet...so COMMON' DEALER, GIMMIE DEM COWBOYS!!!

by DeeDubs24 on Jul 24, 2006 5:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

KW said McCarthy ain't goin' nowhere on the radio

Someone over at BTF reported that.

by bhoov on Jul 24, 2006 5:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

do you really think this trade is going to happen?

these ESPN rumors come and go. who is this "source"? i keep thinking this is all overhyped and that the yankees will end up with soriano....

by longdrive on Jul 24, 2006 5:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Costly deal

Two pretty good arms, I'm surprised that all they could bring in was MacDougal. If he gets the job done, though, I'm okay with it.

Lumsden has good stuff for a lefty, but it IS true that he really isn't King a lot of batters and that might be cause for concern. He needs to develop a third pitch to stick as a starter, but I think it's most likely that he'll move to the pen in the majors. I could see him being a pretty nasty reliever, especially as his velocity should see a bump in that role.

The only way I want to see the Sox acquiring Soriano is if they can immediately ink him to an extension. If that's doable, then yeah, I'm okay with us moving significant pieces.

by mrkupe on Jul 24, 2006 6:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs