Mark Buehrle needs an MRI

by The Cheat on Jul 26, 2006 4:04 PM CDT in News Comment 50 comments

Mark Buehrle hasn't had an outing in which he allowed fewer hits than innings pitched since June 15th.
Buehrle has allowed double-digit hits in 5 of his last 16 starts.

IP H R ER HR BB K ERA Since May 1 103.1 133 74 64 16 28 50 5.57 Since July 1 26.2 47 36 34 8 5 15 11.48

At this point, a revelation from the White Sox that Mark Buehrle is injured would be about as surprising as Lance Bass coming out of the closet. It was plainly obvious for all to see, and the only people in denial about it are those closest to the situation. -- I mean I actually hope Buehrle is injured, because the alternative is that he just plain forgot how to pitch, or no longer has that little extra deception that he needs to be an effective pitcher without top-of-the-rotation stuff. It would at least give me something tangible to blame for his ineffectiveness.

As it is, with no news coming from the White Sox medical staff and Buehrle holding 'I just suck right now' press conferences after every start, the Sox are in trouble. The Sox starting staff consists of a guy who can't get through the third time through the order, a guy who makes El Duque look like a fireballer, Buehrle, who, as I said, I hope is injured, and two major league pitchers. It's just like 2002-2004 all over again, except now we're paying $10M/yr to our three 5th starters.

* * * * *

A few days ago, before the MacDougal and Alomar acquisitions, I was going to post an open letter to Kenny urging him to stand pat, mostly because I felt the Sox were in pretty good shape to make the playoffs this season. I still think Kenny should shy away from his cell phone and Blackberry, but for a little different reason now. I honestly don't think the Sox can make the playoffs without a complete turnaround from their pitching staff, and I've seen nothing over the last month that indicates that turnaround is on the horizon.

That doesn't mean I'm giving up on the season. I've just revised my expectations. I don't think anyone could have predicted that Jon Garland would have the second best ERA on the staff at 4.78 less than a week before the calendar turns to August. No team can win without pitching, as the Sox are finding out right now.

Kenny has built this team to compete for a division title and championship both this year and next. With the entire starting staff locked up through '07 and not a single starter reaching free agency until then, his best move right now may be conceding that he's done everything he can; the guys on the field just haven't performed to expectations. That's not his fault. There's only so much he can do.

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Meanwhile, McCarthy is lights out

The Sox REALLY need to find a way to get him in the rotation. Probably by putting Buehrle on the DL, injured or not. If you slide Garcia to #4 and Vasquez to #5, that is a huge improvement over what's being shuffled out there now.

by BridgeportJoe on Jul 26, 2006 4:12 PM CDT reply actions

Agreed...

Time to take McCarthy's training bra off. Let's see those puppies for real.

by DeeDubs24 on Jul 26, 2006 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions

ozzie will never let that happen

he's intent on running this season into the ground.

by longdrive on Jul 26, 2006 4:17 PM CDT reply actions

Cheat......

What would it take for you to either pick up Buehrle's expensive option or to not pick up the option? Because this is going to be a major decision....the buyout is only 1 mil.

by stanchar on Jul 26, 2006 4:20 PM CDT reply actions

Can anybody believe...

that is has become a valid question? Right now, you HAVE to buy him out.

by DeeDubs24 on Jul 26, 2006 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions

I can't believe it either

And sadly, I agree. If he goes on the DL for a month and pitches like the real Buehrle in September (you know, the one we've come to count on for the last 5 years), then we can talk about picking up the option. But he's gotta prove that he can be effective again...

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http://hiphopnerd.com

by hiphopnerd on Jul 26, 2006 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Amend that

as Cheat's answer to the question is significantly more rational. My mind's just so clouded with disappointment and disgust right now...

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http://hiphopnerd.com

by hiphopnerd on Jul 26, 2006 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions

I, of course, agree

But if the decision had to be made today with a gun to my head...even without a medical report...I'd buy him out. It just doesn't look like there is a short-term solution.

by DeeDubs24 on Jul 26, 2006 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Even Today

I'd extend him. 5 bad starts will not deter the other 29 teams. Everyone would still take him. There's too much history of success to take a pass on him.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 26, 2006 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Exactly

when Jeff Weaver and Sidney Ponson & Jose Lima keep getting chances to pitch in this league, it means there's no shortage of teams who'd take a chance on a guy with 5 years of solid-to-good performance in his immediate past.

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http://hiphopnerd.com

by hiphopnerd on Jul 26, 2006 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed

Even bad contracts can be moved when cash is thrown in, so it's probably more like a 3 or 4 million dollar gamble rather 9.5 and it's only one year. The Sox apparently have the payroll to take that risk.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 26, 2006 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Dammit...

you are all right...(see frustration diary, Buherle is mine).

by DeeDubs24 on Jul 26, 2006 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions

I need a medical report first

You almost assuredly pick it up, even if he continues to pitch poorly. If nothing else, his body of work makes his somewhat attractive to other teams in a trade. And that's better than paying $1M and losing him for nothing.

You might be best served picking up his option, then eating some of his contract in a trade for prospects or something useful.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 26, 2006 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions

did anyone watch the postgame show?

what did ozzie say?

by longdrive on Jul 26, 2006 4:34 PM CDT reply actions

No more trades

I hope. I'm not real high on the Sox prospects, but I'd rather they hold on to Fields, Sweeney, and Tracey right now. Each has shown enough that they could be usable next year.

One exception: I wouldn't mind seeing Broadway traded, since his value may be at a peak, as long as the Sox get someone that would at least bring back a draft pick when they leave as a FA.

I hope the DL Buehrle. They should see what McCarthy and Tracey can do. And for goodness sake they should play BA everyday.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 26, 2006 5:03 PM CDT reply actions

"theres always next year"

if we fall way out of the wild card, we should just bring up the whole farm and see who can play next year. I guess we can look forward to more Pauly DP's in big situations and AJ chucking his bat into the ground next year.

by BigCrookedNumber on Jul 26, 2006 5:36 PM CDT reply actions

I agree about your take on Kenny.

He knew the pitching wouldn't repeat the 2005 performance, so he greatly strenghthened our ability to score runs. Then Hermanson and Politte come up lame, and Williams does an admirable job of replacing them.

While I can't make a post here without commenting on how much I disagree with the Vazquez trade, you can't blame Williams when Buerhle, Garcia, and Vazquez have years this far beyond their career worsts. You just can't plan for that.

However, like it's been said, that was one reason we had BMac as a sixth pitcher. Our rotation right now painfully sucks. We can immediately improve it. With each start Ozzie refuses to give us a chance to win, I lose more and more respect for him.

by chrome on Jul 26, 2006 5:51 PM CDT reply actions

Here's the deal

With the exception of Buehrle's brutal last 5 starts, Brandon McCarthy is not a guarantee to be any better than the others. Not until I see him striking out a batter per inning, or the changeup looks like one of the best in baseball, does he reach that point.

Right now he's just a guy who should be able to throw league average ball. That means he takes a beating, as 3/5ths of the staff is currently doing, every once in a while, and has a dominant outing every once in a while, but generally keeps the Sox in the game. Unless one of the guys is hurt, or they really have a meltdown (Buehrle), McCarthy-to-the-rotation isn't worth the hassle.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 26, 2006 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions

you're kidding right?

he seemed pretty damn dominant last year. and yeah, i know, so did the rest of the sox starters, but mccarthy looked sensational. i chalk up his struggles this year to pitching in an unfamiliar situation, the bullpen.

there's a reason why everyone's asking for him in trade talks.

maybe you're right....but hell, we've just lost 12 out of 15 games and our pitching staff is getting shelled every other game. what do we have to lose? maybe this is just the sort of message ozzie needs to send to his starting staff. straighten out, or the kids take your place.

by longdrive on Jul 26, 2006 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions

No, I'm not kidding

If McCarthy had his good change-up today, Buehrle would have an ERA less than Garland right now. He didn't, and he was unable to fool little Nicky Punto, who had more 2-out RBI's today than the Sox have had in the last week.

I've seen enough of McCarthy to know when he's right and when he's not. Right now, with the change-up being thrown but not dominating, he's just a league average starter.

Why do his 40 dominating innings after the ASG last year count more than his 40 innings of league average relief work this year? And even then his actual ERA was way out of line from his DIPS ERA, which should be a sign that those 40 innings of Sub-2 ERA weren't sustainable.

Everyone's asking for him in trade talks because league average pitching on the cheap is a valuable hard to find comodity. When Billy Beane is willing to pay 3/$21 for what he hopes is a league average guy, McCarthy looks pretty good to most teams.

The Sox problem is they have 3/5ths of their rotation, who should all be above-league-average pitchers, woefully underperforming. Going forward, those 3 pitchers, unless they are hurt -- and I'm going by the assumption that they're all healthy until I hear otherwise -- are still a better bet to be an above average starter this season than McCarthy.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 26, 2006 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions

well, you know better than me

i'll be honest. i'm no billy beane. i've never read moneyball, don't pretend to understand half the stats that you kids toss around and wouldn't even know what our farm system is doing if it wasn't for your posts on this website. i'm just a huge fan of the whitesox, have been since i moved to chicago in grade school, even after i left for college and then stayed in cali.

this slump hurts in a big way. just throwing out potential solutions instead of sulking. bmac seems like an obvious one.

but again, i'm no billy beane.

by longdrive on Jul 26, 2006 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions

McCarthy

My feelings with McCarthy is that he still hasn't adjusted to the bullpen yet. Really, this season, he hasn't had a consistent role in the bullpen. One night he'll pitch as a ROOGY, the next night it'll be three innings, the next it'll be an inning.

I don't know if the stats back me on this -- maybe they don't and I'm a complete fool for saying this -- but I think BMac needs more than one inning to "find his pitches", so to speak. If he's a starter, he can battle through an inning or two with his fastball (it seems to me his fastball is better this year than last year), then he can mix in his other pitches. Then again, as I said, I don't know if the statistics say that he does better after his first inning of work.

I also think that if somehow, someway, this team got itself into a position to make the playoffs, you can have three solid starters. Contreras, Garland, and then your idea of a piggyback with Vazquez and Garcia. Will Buehrle turn into his usual self? I dunno... Maybe DIPS is taking back all the supposed "luck" Mark has been pitching with the past couple seasons.

by CWSKeith on Jul 26, 2006 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions

You're right

I think part of his problem/adjustment is not having a good feel of his pitches.

If he was plugged into the rotation, I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to pull off another run like he had last year. He's a streaky pitcher, and when he has all of his pitches working, he's a great pitcher. But we just haven't really seen that except for brief flashes this year, so I also wouldn't be surprised by a 4 HR allowed game too.

I also agree about the fastball. It's got some more "weight" -- for lack of a better word -- to it this season. He's also better at working it above the hitting zone rather than throwing it for high strikes that go a long way. He may have picked up a MPH or two since last season. If he can add another 2 and get up to 94MPH consistently, which isn't completely out of the question considering his age and body type, he really can become a #2 pitcher. Until then he's league average innings eater.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 26, 2006 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Agree, but...

this doesn't make BMac a stopper, just a better alternative in the rotation than at least two others currently there. So I'd put him in but realize that it is only a very small piece of the answer for a 3-12 record. Do you really think that he is more (right now) than a 13-10 type pitcher with a 4.25 ERA?

by randy77 on Jul 26, 2006 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Russian Roulette

So who do you remove from the rotation. And what happens when BMac falls on his face?

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 26, 2006 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions

I pull

Mark, only because he is man enough to handle it and come back and try again when / if put back in the rotation. The other two obvious candidates seem to be moody hotheads that if you demote them are otherwise worthless. Plus, Freddy shows a pretty decent game every once in awhile, and Vasquez can me managed with smart long relief. Mark gets crushed early and often it seems.

A bad reason to choose someone to sit, but pragmatic?

by randy77 on Jul 26, 2006 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions

Good question

There is an argument for Garcia, Vasquez, or Buehrle.

Vasquez is at least showing flashes of effective stuff and for some reason may have to come out after 5. Freddy is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum wrapped, it appears, in a zig-zag; he also flasshes occasional glimpses of his previous abilities.

Buehrle, though, has fallen off a cliff. He's been Mr. Consistency for 5 years and suddenly is giving up 7 runs per start? Velocity down, once pinpoint command slipping...you said it...he needs an MRI. And some time to heal.

Meanwhile plug in McCarthy.

AIM: ozspengler

by spengler on Jul 26, 2006 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions

If he falls on his face

he falls.

I doubt he gives up 7 runs each time out.

AIM: ozspengler

by spengler on Jul 26, 2006 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions

That's my point. It's not that I think

McCarthy will repeat his performance in the second half of last year. It's more that I don't see how he can't improve upon the horrendous efforts 3/5 of our starting staff gives every night.

Before today I would have said to send Vazquez to the pen for BMac. But now I really believe the Sox should give Buerhle a start off and let BMac take his spot. He's almost guaranteed to perform better than Buerhle. And maybe if there really isn't anything wrong with Mark, 2 weeks of rest will do him some good.

by chrome on Jul 26, 2006 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Arms are weird things

I've duffed around in a coed softball league here in town for years, and about six weeks ago I felt serious pain in my shoulder. For the next 5 games, I couldn't throw for shit. I thought, hell I'm old, I finally wrecked my rotator cuff. So I took it easy for a while, warmed up more, actually stretched, etc, and lo and behold, now the pain is gone.

Who knows what's wrong with Buehrle. Rest certainly won't hurt. Besides which, because of the above, I did some research on the rotator cuff. If he does have an issue with it, he needs to be shut down immediately to avoid a complete tear.

AIM: ozspengler

by spengler on Jul 26, 2006 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions

Any chance they would try this?

Put McCarthy into the rotation, going to a six-man rotation. Cut Gload, and call up Tracey as the longman who will piggyback McCarthy until he can build up his arm strength.

I was weary of the idea of putting McCarthy in the bullpen at the beginning of the year. I was told that it was a good move because if anyone was ineffective or hurt, McCarthy could be plugged in.

Well, right now we have two starters who I have confidence in, and three wildcards. Start stretching McCarthy out. If it fails, so what? At least we won't be left thinking "what if?" in October, when we're out and both Minny and Detroit are in.

---------------------------------

On a sidenote about Buehrle, is it just me, or is his velocity down? I don't remember the last time I saw Buehrle hit 90 MPH on the gun. Let the guy rest for 15 days, and see what McCarthy can do, even if it's only two starts for B-Mac.

by CWSKeith on Jul 26, 2006 6:16 PM CDT reply actions

Buerhle

Does anyone still believe Buerhle isn't hurt??? His velocity has been down all year and now he can't locate. Until proven otherwise that is a shoulder injury especially given Buerhle's long track record of effectiveness. Politte is also injured and will likely need shoulder surgery. His problems had everything to do with losing 5-7mph off his fastball. Shoulder injuries cost pitchers big money and both tried to pitch threw them. Politte to earn a big free agent contract and Buerhle to get a 30 million dollar plus extension. Unfortunately for them and the Sox, they couldn't do it. Not anyone's fault. Just bad luck. But it appears the 2006 playoffs are unlikely as the 2002-2004 references are dead on.

by 19172005 on Jul 26, 2006 6:29 PM CDT reply actions

I just want

to stop losing.

by hawksview on Jul 26, 2006 6:39 PM CDT reply actions

You have to wonder

maybe the staff cut back on their leg work or some other conditioning because of the playoff work. You've got Buerhle and Garcia with less stuff than they had last year.

Vasquez has to be out of gas by the 6th. I agree with the Cheat that you don't pitch great early than suck late becasue you suck. Farmer likes to say the first thing that gets tired are the legs - not the arm.

I'd take Buerhle and sit him for two weeks. I'd give BMac a chance to start. I'd put Vasquez on extra condtioning - make him run or hit the leg weights.
Put him on a 75-85 pitch count his next two outings.

You can't hide from this. You have to try to fix it.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Jul 26, 2006 7:21 PM CDT reply actions

I....Dig this

for the last 3 weeks - calling for a 6 man rotation that looks tired and needs a break - why not try something different. Like Red says in "The Natural", 'Well, we sure need somebody!" So why not take a risk when it feels like we are no longer in a pennant race (I know, we're tied, but this is worse than kissing you sister) but prepping for 2007? Put Buehrle down for acouple of weeks, as an alternative - seems to have (finally) helped Count (a bit). Bring up a couple of young arms to give a little taste of "The Show".

Gotta work better than the horseshit we're seeing and living with now. I am a grateful, recovering loser of 88 years (though I am not quite that old) but my gratitude for last year is being dissipated pretty damn quickly with this horrendous slump. Let's shake it up... shake it good.

by winningugly on Jul 26, 2006 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree in principle. If it's broken, try to fix

it. Don't mire in the same old stuff as your fix.

by southsidefan on Jul 26, 2006 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Doug Mientkiewicz

and Mark Redman would make great additions to the White Sox

www.royalsreview.com

by Will McDonald on Jul 26, 2006 9:35 PM CDT reply actions

nice try :)

You shouldn't take advantage of us, we aren't used to losing like this.

by jimgstl on Jul 26, 2006 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions

O.k., then.

"For the first time in my life I'm speechless," said Ozzie Guillen, Chicago's outspoken manager. "It's been two tough weeks. It's tough for me to point at any of the players. I blame everybody."

Does that include himself?

by southsidefan on Jul 26, 2006 9:49 PM CDT reply actions

I would hope so.

Coaching that adjusts would have cushioned the blow of this slump. Get conservative Oz. Its your only option.

Hear our collective plea -
Put BA in. Use the sharpie not the pensil.
Give Mark a break. Call it a break. Give BMac the ball.

Start Pablo. Sit Pods. Use Mack as a late inning LFer.

Tell Javie he's going 9. Take him out at the end of the 5th.

Tell the Count - good job!

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Jul 26, 2006 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions

from the fwiw dept:

sorry.that was from yahoo sports -

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Jul 27, 2006 4:29 AM CDT reply actions

oops........misfire.....

hell it's 4:30 a.m.

2) Milwaukee Brewers' Carlos Lee to the Chicago White Sox for Josh Fields, Brian Anderson and Ray Liotta: Hey, trading Lee to the Milwaukee Brewers for Scott Podsednik helped the White Sox win a World Series. Getting him back could do the same. Even though he's improving, Anderson remains a liability at the plate, and by moving Podsednik to center field and putting Lee in left, the White Sox would shore up their lineup considerably and simply hope the pitching comes around. Fields, a top third-base prospect, is expendable only because with the season Joe Crede is having, the White Sox could have a difficult time letting him walk as a free agent after next year.

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Jul 27, 2006 4:30 AM CDT reply actions

Can I write for Yahoo Sports?

That's so dumb for so many reasons, I can't believe that guy got paaid for writing it.

Lee left on what can only be called bad terms and will be a FA.
The Sox will not surrender Fields/BA/Liotta for a 2 month rental.
Pods can't play center and BA is currently hitting at least as well as Pods.
Adding a slugger won't get the Sox to the playoffs. Offense still isn't really a problem, and to the extent it is I think a higher OBP player in left, short or 2B would be bigger boost.

5)The Brewers don't need a CF

And is Crede a FA in 2008? I thought he was only arb eligible for 2 more years.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 27, 2006 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions

It felt good.....

to send that idiot Jeff Passan an email telling him how idiotic that C.Lee proposal was. I'll be interested to see if he responds--I doubt it.

by stanchar on Jul 27, 2006 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions

p.s.

isn't Ray Liotta an actor? kinda old to stat playing ball.

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Jul 27, 2006 4:33 AM CDT reply actions

That Lee idea.......

is not going to happen.

Looking around I see that the Dodgers have fallen and one guy I'd like to poach is Caesar Itzuris. Uribe was key in helping us get the title but I'm kind of done with him. I'd rather get a solid OBP guy like Caesar who'd be a great #9 or #2 hitter. Kind of like a Nick Punto....

by stanchar on Jul 27, 2006 9:20 AM CDT reply actions

Solid OBP?

Izturis is at a .293 OBP this year. He has .294 career OBP. No thanks. I'll take Uribe's glove and occasional power (and career .301 OBP).

by hitlesswonder on Jul 27, 2006 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions

You are right.....

for some reason I had it in my head that he got on base more, but I just checked the stats and his OBP is kind of pathetic.

by stanchar on Jul 27, 2006 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions

watch Izturis regularly here in LA...

..believe me, we want Juan at SS. Better arm, range, occasional power.

by ken92 on Jul 27, 2006 9:37 AM CDT reply actions

The future is the future

At this point, I hope they don't trade any prospects this year. What ails the Sox cannot be fixed with a trade for a hitter. Better to keep all of the bargaining chips and trading commodities for the off season and 2007. By then the Sox should have a handle on the extent of the pitching problems, ie is Buerhle hurt and finished , is Garcia finished, is Vazquez a career 500 pitcher with a replacement value ERA. Then you can use those chips to rebuild your starting staff adn hopefully maek a run at 2007. The only hope for 2006 is that this is one of the worst collective bad luck slumps a pitching staff has every gone through adn they will snap out of it and go on a remarkable run. That seems like a pipe dream at this point.

by 19172005 on Jul 27, 2006 10:22 AM CDT reply actions