SS Plan B: Erick Aybar?

by The Wizard on Jan 15, 2007 12:30 PM CST in White Sox Rumors

In his latest blog post at ESPN, Peter Gammons mentions that the White Sox might pursue Angels shortstop Erick Aybar if Juan Uribe's future remains unclear. Joe Crede could be the trade candidate.

This doesn't sound good for 2007.

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Interesting...

But ultimately it seems like Gammons is speculating more than anything else.

If Ken Williams trades Crede for Aybar right now, that would give him a huge "brass balls" award. The Chicago sports media would tear him a new one.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 12:36 PM CST reply actions

It would also be terrible...

if it is a straight-up trade. Aybar + Figgins + a decent pitching prospect would at least be acceptable. But starting the 2007 season with Aybar at SS and Fields at 3B would be scary as hell.

by SSH2005 on Jan 15, 2007 12:46 PM CST up reply actions

I wouldn't be opposed...

To a Crede trade - I think his back is always going to prevent him from reaching his full potential, and he's gone after 2008 in any case.

I would only be for bringing in someone like Aybar if it looked like Uribe wasn't going to be available this year. The White Sox are awfully thin at shortstop.

But I would do Crede for Figgins + Aybar plus a prospect.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 12:57 PM CST up reply actions

yeah

I think I would do that as well.

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Jan 15, 2007 1:10 PM CST up reply actions

That aint happening.

If Uribe can't play, Cintron will be the everyday starter.

by chrome on Jan 15, 2007 1:58 PM CST reply actions

To be honest, I think that's something that both Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams would like to avoid. They both like Cintron as a utility player, but neither of them like him as an everyday shortstop.

The days where Cintron played short last year, there was a notable step down in terms of defensive prowess.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 2:02 PM CST up reply actions

and aybar would do better?

he's one for the future but check out this guy defensively. not an immediate upgrade over cintron by any means - offensively or defensively. i don't see how this move would help us in 2007 at all.

by larry on Jan 15, 2007 2:08 PM CST up reply actions

I don't know...

Not having seen Aybar play, I couldn't comment on his ability to play shortstop.

I'm betting Uribe will be back for Spring Training, though.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 2:22 PM CST reply actions

lol

then you shouldn't be supporting aybar as a replacement because cintron can't play great D. cintron and aybar would probably be indistinguishable in 2007. if we want an immediate improvement from cintron, we need to look elsewhere.

aybar had some pretty bad errors in his limited time with the angels last year. his defense has always been described, IIRC, as spectacular but very inconsistent. basically, he's a young SS. he needs some time to learn the position and smooth out those rough edges. he's got GG potential in the future.

by larry on Jan 15, 2007 2:29 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not.

then you shouldn't be supporting aybar as a replacement because cintron can't play great D.

I'm actually not supporting Aybar as a (short-term) replacement, only saying that Cintron is not an answer, even for one year. Not only is Cintron not a very good player, he doesn't have the potential that Aybar does.

Does Aybar still have options? If so, I wouldn't be against trading for him even if Uribe is ready to go. The team could use the middle-infield prospect.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 2:33 PM CST up reply actions

And now that I read my comment above...

It looks like I am promoting Aybar as a short-term solution.

I should organize my thoughts better. Picking up Aybar would be a good idea whether or not Uribe is ready to go this spring. The Sox have a notable lack of major-league-quality infielders.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 2:41 PM CST up reply actions

we just couldn't do it

without seriously undermining our chances in 2007. this guy is going to be a .300 hitter with GG defense. i'm sure you can imagine what it would take to get him.

by larry on Jan 15, 2007 2:45 PM CST up reply actions

Sure...

It would take Joe Crede, and as I've said before, I wouldn't be against that. I'm not confident about Crede's abilities right now - he looked like crap in September, on offense and defense, and he's going to be expensive and difficult to keep in the short run, and impossible to keep in the long run.

But this is the Angels we're talking about - Stoneman doesn't trade prospects. He keeps them firmly blocked in the minors until they're useless.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions

i'm not going to trade a player

based on one month. the other stuff is irrelevant to my thinking. crede is simply essential for our '07 chances. if we trade him, we've given up before the season starts.

by larry on Jan 15, 2007 2:55 PM CST up reply actions

It's not just one month...

It was clear that Crede's back was bothering him severely, and to me, it's growing obvious that this problem isn't going away.

I think there's a very good chance that Crede struggles mightily in 2007.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 3:00 PM CST up reply actions

it won't go away. we all know that

but if he was able to get through the vast majority of last season without a problem, i think it's a safe bet he'll be able to do it this season. one of the reasons i wouldn't sign him long-term is his back, but i don't see it as much of a short-term problem for a man his age.

of course crede is likely to regress some. but we don't have anyone who can replace him. we simply cannot afford to go into a season with pods, BA, uribe, and fields in our starting lineup. that's suicidal.

by larry on Jan 15, 2007 3:13 PM CST up reply actions

Right...

I'm still angry that the team brought back Podsednik. The guy is worthless. Worse than worthless.

I'm sure this is just my negative nature coming forth, but part of me wouldn't mind if the team punted 2007. I know it would anger the fan base, but I have a sinking feeling that the team won't do so well this year no matter what.

That side of me loves that Williams is building towards the future.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

i just don't see any year in the near future

where we have as good a chance as '07.

by larry on Jan 15, 2007 3:22 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly,

Which is why I'm all for trading away current talent for future talent. I'd rather punt 2007 than 2008-2012, which is where the team was headed a year ago.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 15, 2007 3:25 PM CST up reply actions

and we get what back?

a SS and maybe another fire-balling pitching prospect? i love what KW is doing probably more than anyone except KW himself, but nothing we may have in the future will be as sure a thing as what we have collected right now. to punt now would be an act of the galactically stupid.

by larry on Jan 15, 2007 5:15 PM CST up reply actions

I think

saying a guy "is going to be a .300 hitter and play GC defense" is using poor metrics to value his worth.

He could get .300 and put up a line of 300/331/370 and that would be puke awful.

Jeter wins CG's but I'd take a dozen SS's over him defensively. CG is all about rep and popularity.

by madvillian on Jan 15, 2007 10:00 PM CST up reply actions

haha

I'm guessing you meant Gold Glove (GG), but you wrote GC once, and CG twice. That makes me giggle.

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Jan 15, 2007 10:05 PM CST up reply actions

yeah

thanks for the schooling on metrics. i'm sorry i didn't lay out his entire projected line for everyone's consumption in my post. next time i'll include BA, OBP, slugging, OPS, OPS+, SB%, and any other statistic i can think of. sure, it will lengthen my posts quite a bit and be a pain in the ass but apparently it's worth it.

my point was that he's going to hit the ball pretty well and play excellent defense. you guess what it will take to get a prospect like that.

by larry on Jan 15, 2007 11:11 PM CST up reply actions

you seemed in favor of such a trade

in your second comment.

he's young. he just made his debut last year. he'd be under out control for quite a while.

but aybar isn't going anywhere. the angels aren't so stupid as to trade him - and we aren't so stupid to offer enough to pry him from them. we'd probably have more luck getting cabrera as a short-term fix in case of a urbibe absence. and we wouldn't have to give up nearly as much.

by larry on Jan 15, 2007 2:44 PM CST up reply actions

I

love Aybar and see him in the same light as Omar Vizquel. The angels have alot of depth at SS at both the ML and MILB level and Aybar doesn't appear to fit into their future(Wood & Kendrick). To me Crede's value is 2 B level prospects, if the angels also gave us SS/2B Sean Rodriguez i would be happy with that deal. Obviously i'm also a big Reggie Willits fan boy so if there was a way to acquire him i'd love to see KW make it happen.

As for fields taking over 3B, i think he's very ready ZIPS projected .262/.336/.445 18HR 13SB, ill take that for a rookie year. the thing that most impressed me about Josh when he came up was he walked 5 times while striking out 8, and those aerobatic plays he made at the hot corner, good stuff.

by beautox on Jan 15, 2007 4:48 PM CST reply actions

Um, I know we 95% of the time

discuss the Sox, but wasn't there a football game played somewhere in Chicago yesterday....?

As to the SS/3B debate, I'd hate to sell 2007 short, but frankly we have a lot of ????? in 2007. (How will the starters rebound? Who will be #5? Will middle relief be solid? Will Jenks wear down? Will Crede stay healthy? Will Pods live through the year? Will BA hit? Will Uribe buy his own jet to commute from DR? Etc.) If the intention is not to sign Joe....Crede long-term let's get some value for him. KW will figure it out. Remember, it's all about the pitching (yeah, and the D, I know).

by winningugly on Jan 15, 2007 5:06 PM CST reply actions

there was a football game in town yesterday?

good thing they knocked the ball in the ground when they were down 24-21 and seatle didn't get the int...

how do they match up with the saints next week?

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Jan 15, 2007 7:36 PM CST up reply actions

The hits keep on rolling

I am a Purdue grad and, of course, have followed Drew Brees' career with keen interest. This is the end of the line for the 'Aints. Bears by 7.

by winningugly on Jan 15, 2007 8:01 PM CST up reply actions

It's mean to pick on the old man w/ the aneurysm

but here's what he wrote

If Juan Uribe's future is cloudy, the word is that the White Sox may go after Angels shortstop Erick Aybar. With Josh Fields coming at third, they can trade Joe Crede, if the Angels will take Crede knowing he can become a free agent at the end of the year.

If he can't get the facts right about Crede, how are we supposed to expect him to get the assumptions and rumors right.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 15, 2007 5:24 PM CST reply actions

This rumor

is absurd on it's face, anyhow. Who in their right mind gives up one of the best 3B (offensively AND defensively) in the game, who is still under team control for two more seasons, for a prospect SS?

Someone mentioned Figgins as a throw in to such a deal..that's nuts, too. Figgins is Pods. Virtually the same guy. In fact, their respective 162 game offensive averages are IDENTICAL. So, where do you play him? Defensively he's a hack at 3B and only average in the OF. Just say no to Figgins! This team does not need two Scott Podsedniks.

Now, if the Sox can snag Santana and Aybar for Crede, I'm all for it ;-)

by ChisoxMike on Jan 15, 2007 6:02 PM CST up reply actions

Cold, Cheat, cold

;)

Goddammit, SOMEONE has to knock the old addled HOF'er off his throne. May as well be the Cheat!

Though I'd still have Crede up for trade, under the right circumstance. He's a goner. And I will always have the man crush for him becuae the MF constantly is looking over my shoulder, towering above his peers going nuts on the mound after the fnal 2005 out, but, dammit, he doesn't follow the rehab program, and has the Anti-Christ as his agent.

Slow week - focus on the 2006 Super Bowl Shuffle. You Tube only has 1985 Shiffle rated as 2 1/2 stars! WTF?

by winningugly on Jan 15, 2007 7:59 PM CST up reply actions

only 2 1/2 stars for da shuffle?

not enough otis wilson!

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Jan 15, 2007 8:22 PM CST up reply actions

I mean every team has problems and question marks.

...thats why they play the games. I'd certainly take the sox problems over MANY other teams WHO DID NOTHING this off-season.

I honestly don't have a problem goin' into the season with crede or without him.. I'd say you try and pry away some of the angels' young talent or the dodgers young minor leaguers.. maybe brad penny off the mlb squad? The dodgers need power and defensively there's not many guys better than crede obviously. (who knows, just a thought)

If they did trade crede, I'd have NO problem taking a RMAC/fields platoon in left/3B. It's really about the defense and the pitching. in which case, as long as they make the plays they should make an occasionally play above thier heads then the sox could still win and have just enough of a shot. They certainly should hit well enough. Another thing is, IF Uribe doesn't play, which i think he will, you have noone who could sub in for cintron at all, even when you factor in that he's not a suitable replacement. If crede's a guy that you could trade to get deeper in the infield (especially a SS good prospect) you should.

If crede goes down next season for an extended period right after he doesn't have back surgery, fresh off a season in which he raised his value quite a bit (his highest value so far), the sox get nothing in return,(or don't have anyone to step in, the same scenarios you face if you traded him)and crede's value drops, everyone's gunna be like "why didn't kenny trade him?" (Damn, only if you could live a few lives and
see which decision pans out)

Again, people forget in 2005 they won with pitching and defense. I believe they have the proper pitching this year. They didnt have all 5 starters they had in 2006 on the team (no jim thome either, just everette) in 2005 either but they won the WS.

It's all about the SOX baby! www.myspace.com/eternalkonflict

by Eternalkonflict on Jan 15, 2007 5:50 PM CST reply actions

ok..

Put it like this, the sox won 90 games with pods
playing horrible, anderson was a rookie, rmac playing too much center field, the starters all had off years (or worse numbers than we thought), and a crap bullpen. I think most of you believe the sox'll have a better bullpen just by the sheer numbers of the plus arms they have slated. Pods can't possibly be any worse in 2007 (every other year he plays well it seems). Anderson will have had a second go around, with sweeney right there to challenge him at every step, and mack won't even sniff center next year.

THAT'S HALF THE BATTLE.

Plus now they have more chips for the future. I think if crede's gone, someone else will step up. I think if you trade crede, you trade him now. Especially if everyone here thinks his numbers will regress in 2007.

It's all about the SOX baby! www.myspace.com/eternalkonflict

by Eternalkonflict on Jan 15, 2007 5:52 PM CST reply actions

jerry owens is a top prospect

[Scott Merkin]

there will be a handful of top prospects in attendance in Ryan Sweeney, Jerry Owens and Josh Fields.

also

Robin Ventura, Chet Lemon, Ken Kravec and Jorge Orta also will be at SoxFest, as representatives for the 30th anniversary of the South Side Hitmen.

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Jan 15, 2007 8:52 PM CST reply actions

30 YEARS?

Thanks for the reminder. ;)

So is it "George" or "Whore-Gay", once and for all?

Wiz, you going? If so, tell Chet we love his school in Central Florida. Wish I could be there.

by winningugly on Jan 16, 2007 6:10 AM CST up reply actions

I'm waiting for the sox chopper to pick me up!

me going? nah...

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Jan 16, 2007 12:23 PM CST up reply actions

get you tickets

through Eric Soderholm for kicks.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Jan 16, 2007 6:54 PM CST up reply actions

BTW

Eric's BR page needs a sponsor. For 10 bucks you'd think Eric would sponsor himself.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Jan 16, 2007 7:01 PM CST up reply actions

Ugh

I've been going to Soxfest for the past two years but won't make it this year. The new jacked-up price and my being up at school make it too not worth it.

Btw -- OT, but it sucks. My Golden Eagles are starting to play well (college hoops), and who do we play next? At Pitt, Sunday, at two. Unfortunately, there's one other game going on at that time that takes priority...

by CWSKeith on Jan 17, 2007 2:09 AM CST up reply actions

hmmm

I know a pretty good team that beat Pitt....they also beat Marquette and Ohio State...

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Jan 17, 2007 8:41 AM CST up reply actions

And whose coach...

could be mistaken for its mascot.

ON WISCONSIN!

Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Jan 17, 2007 11:00 AM CST up reply actions

Coaches that looked like the mascot...

Ditka --> Bear
John Chaney --> Owl
and the aforementioned Bo Ryan --> Badger.

Anyone think of any others?

by hitlesswonder on Jan 17, 2007 2:45 PM CST up reply actions

Jim Boeheim - Orange (bald)

Jon Griden/Art Shell/Lloyd McClendon - Bucs/Pirates

Bo Schembechler - Wolverine

Woody Hayes - nut

by winningugly on Jan 17, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions

Robin Ventura

was 10 years old in 1977.

30 years? Ouch...that hurts.

No Richie Zisk? No Oscar Gamble? Then count me out!

President - Johnny Dickshot Fan Club

by tailgater on Jan 16, 2007 12:18 PM CST up reply actions

I want to see if Oscar

still has the 'fro. Better than Darnell Hillman or Dr. J.

by winningugly on Jan 16, 2007 2:27 PM CST up reply actions

he doesn't

saw him a few years ago at a yankees get together during spring training. not sure if he's balding (that would be a good reason for ditching it) because he didn't take the cap off, but it was cut short.

by larry on Jan 16, 2007 2:32 PM CST up reply actions

You don't put your hand into

the same river twice, I guess...

Sigh.

by winningugly on Jan 16, 2007 4:37 PM CST up reply actions

Oscar is, sadly, bald.

He was already balding when the Sox brought him back in 1985.

by asinwreck on Jan 16, 2007 6:05 PM CST up reply actions

It's ironic like O. Henry

Like Johnny Wadd needing Viagra.

by winningugly on Jan 16, 2007 7:59 PM CST up reply actions

White Sox poised to sign Crede...

White Sox poised to sign Crede

The White Sox could avoid arbitration with third baseman Joe Crede for a second straight year, as the two sides are engaged in talks about a new contract that include one-year and multiyear proposals.

The Sox and Crede's agent, Scott Boras, are scheduled to exchange salary arbitration figures Tuesday, but sources indicated it might not get that far. Crede earned $2.675 million last season, plus $200,000 in incentives. He figures to settle for between $5 million and $6 million after hitting .283 with 30 homers and 94 RBIs.

General manager Ken Williams has said he expected to trade Crede before he becomes a free agent after the 2008 season, but Williams is not believed to be directly involved in the negotiations.

by SSH2005 on Jan 16, 2007 7:52 AM CST reply actions