Second Season :: Round 3 :: Day 1 -- Crazy stuff edition

by The Wizard on Oct 24, 2007 2:54 PM CDT in Game Threads

Ozzie says expect crazy stuff this spring:

"I'm tired (of) playing station to station,'' Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said Tuesday. "I'm tired to have to hit 200 home runs to get something going. I'm tired (of) striking out 700 times.'' ... Guillen isn't blaming Shines for the White Sox' poor offensive showing this season. He just thinks Cox is better suited to get the club back to playing "small ball.''

Guillen said Cox' impact will be felt in spring training, when the White Sox will have a field reserved for situational hitting and baserunning. And the manager said every Sox player, including Jim Thome, Paul Konerko and Jermaine Dye, will use the field. Guillen doesn't want his big three to start laying down bunts, but he does expect better results in clutch-hitting situations.

"You're going to see a lot of crazy stuff in spring training,'' Guillen said. "Hit-and-run when it's not a hit-and-run situation, bunting when it's not a bunting situation. Spring training is when you get mentally prepared.'' The White Sox appeared to go through the motions in spring training last year, and the lackadaisical effort spilled over into the regular season. While stopping short of putting a "boot'' in front of next spring's camp, Guillen said the little things will matter. "The time they're going to spend there will be quality time," Guillen said. "And we're going to be watching like a hawk."

Ozzie also wants a backup SS:

Guillen was less definitive about the team's off-season shopping list, which likely will include a leadoff hitter. "We need a backup playing shortstop," Guillen said, which could mean that Alex Cintron could be dealt or not tendered a contract by Dec. 12. "Right now the decision between [Juan] Uribe and someone else we don't know yet. We want Uribe to lose some weight and show up in shape."

if the Torpedo Boat has to "show up in shape" doesn't that make him likely to be back? You can't show up [in shape] if you're not there. ***** In other news,

The Phillies asked Gooch to re-sign and play 3B. He denied so he won't be playing there next year.
USS Mariner says sign Bartolo this winter.
BTB's Mike Pindelski looks back on the Lee-Pods trade.
Bill Veeck's son, Mike Veeck, the man behind "Disco Demolition night," says there isn't any wackiness in baseball promos today.

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Comments

oh shit

i hope this crap doesn't carry over into the season. someone, anyone, please get ozzie a copy of james click's 3 part series on when to bunt? or get him the cliffnotes "don't do it unless there's a man on second and no outs, you only need one run, and mario mendoza is up" version?

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 3:04 PM CDT reply actions

He's loco, man.

Ozzieball = Locoball.

Prozac fever - catch it!

PS Crazy like Billy Bibbitt? Or Curley Howard? BIG difference.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions

LOL

WU - Like the new signature

by Brush Back on Oct 24, 2007 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions

It's Ozzie being Ozzie

Every year since 2004 it seems like he says something to the effect of, "Things are going to change!". And then next year comes, and the same stuff happens -- we hit lots of homers and bunt (probably) a little more than we should, but nothing too crazy (anectdotally speaking -- I don't know if the stats bear out the part about bunting).

Bull Pain, if you read this, what positions are Jason Bourgeois capable of playing? Because if he can even play a mediocre (slightly below average) shortstop, he should be on the team next year. I've grown tired of Alex Cintron and want to see the whole bench revamped.

by CWSKeith on Oct 24, 2007 3:53 PM CDT reply actions

till BullPain reads this

check out these 2 if you haven't: one, two

by The Wizard on Oct 24, 2007 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Hey guys

Bourgeois played SS in low-A in 2002, but has played just 2B and the outfield since. He's not a big guy at all, so it's not a situation where he outgrew SS like a Joel Guzman or Justin Upton. He was a Texas farmhand originally and a 2nd round pick, so perhaps it was due to the emergence of Michael Young that he was moved. He's been in 3 organizations since the Rangers dumped him off the 40-man in spring training 2005 and nobody has tried him at SS.

He is only 25, but he's already well past his 6 year minor league period since he was a high school signee, so odds are he'll be on that minor league free agent list that will come out after the playoffs end and he'll be on some other AA/AAA team next year.

He is the type of player that could be a cheap backup infielder in the right situation, but I felt the same way about Andy Gonzalez, and that didn't work out.

by Bull Pain on Oct 24, 2007 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions

some thoughts from bull pain on JB

http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2007/9/1/194534/5728

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Well, Keith, we WERE very different

this year. We couldn't hit. Or play defense.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions

That's not really the point...

by CWSKeith on Oct 24, 2007 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Got in a conversation

bout Jon Garland.. Hot topic, I know.

I was arguing that he gives you as many "High Quality Starts," a stat I invented just now (>=7IP <=2R), as the best non-Santana starters in baseball the last three years....

I was close...Since 2005:

Brandon Webb 45 Ind. Games
Johan Santana 45 Ind. Games
Jake Peavy 44 Ind. Games
Roy Oswalt 42 Ind. Games
John Smoltz 37 Ind. Games
Roy Halladay 36 Ind. Games
Carlos Zambrano 34 Ind. Games
C.C. Sabathia 34 Ind. Games
Andy Pettitte 34 Ind. Games
Tim Hudson 34 Ind. Games
Danny Haren 34 Ind. Games
Aaron Harang 34 Ind. Games
Dontrelle Willis 33 Ind. Games
Jon Garland 33 Ind. Games
Chris Carpenter 33 Ind. Games

AL only:

Johan Santana 45 Ind. Games
Roy Halladay 36 Ind. Games
C.C. Sabathia 34 Ind. Games
Danny Haren 34 Ind. Games
Jon Garland 33 Ind. Games
Mark Buehrle 31 Ind. Games
Joe Blanton 30 Ind. Games

Changing to 7IP 2ER:

Brandon Webb 49 Ind. Games
Johan Santana 48 Ind. Games
Jake Peavy 44 Ind. Games
Roy Oswalt 42 Ind. Games
C.C. Sabathia 39 Ind. Games
Roy Halladay 39 Ind. Games
Jon Garland 39 Ind. Games
John Smoltz 38 Ind. Games<
Danny Haren 38 Ind. Games

Garland's not an ace, but he gives you about as many Support Neutral wins (to steal some BP lingo) as any non-Webb-Santana starter the last 3 years.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Oct 24, 2007 4:03 PM CDT reply actions

I also like Garland - a LOT

Stats people like to disparage wins, but when this guy gets the bit between his teeth he's friggin' tough man. Unquantifiable. His numbers might not look very intimidating, but he's a damn good pitcher. If he's on the trading block I would expect a very high rate of return for him, he's not damaged goods like Freddie. If he goes to someone like a Milwaukee he'll win the division for them.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Oct 24, 2007 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions

i'd be interested in the standard deviation

and median runs allowed by him. i bet he gives up a lot of huge games where we lose by a lot, but the difference between giving up 10 in 2 innings isn't really that different than giving up 5 in 4 I bet.

honestly, i think there could be a lot of interesting stuff found using runs allowed per outing graphs.

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Oct 25, 2007 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions

Crazy

Tonight would be game 4 of the World Series under the old schedule.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Oct 24, 2007 4:05 PM CDT reply actions

So the "word of the day"

es "loco".

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions

added a couple links on the end of the post...

by The Wizard on Oct 24, 2007 4:28 PM CDT reply actions

Tango

says BP's world series prediction is out of line...

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/world_series_odds/

I think RSvRA doesn't tell the whole story for the Rockies, much like the Cards last year, they're a different team with the infusion of young talent (jimenez, morales) at the end of the season.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Oct 24, 2007 4:39 PM CDT reply actions

And the unquantifiable "momentum"

or "Magic".

It IS close to Halloween. Unexplainable things happen - the "Black Swan" effect, you know...

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions

that guy still can't write worth a shit

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Oct 25, 2007 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions

i'm not sure RS v. RA

is particularly good proxy for the playoffs. with all these off days, you avoid having to send out your shitty pitchers. i dunno. i stopped trying to handicap games and series a long time ago. BP takes another shot at predicting, this time looking at matchups. comes out about 75-25 in favor of the sox.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6874

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions

I might (compeletely unscientifically,

mind you) give the Sox a 60-40 advantage. Home field plus the BS "experience" factor. (His name is Beckett, and he's worth 10% all by hisself.)

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions

i tend to agree with

the 67-33 bosox. it's the playoffs but the rockies are just not impressive to me.

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Wait until they are at home.

They are not supposed to win tonight. Let's see how the next game goes. Plus, 1st game in CO will be electric for them as long as it isn't 35 degrees and sleeting.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions

i don't care about tonight

i've watched them the whole playoffs. i like their bullpen. i don't really like all that much else.

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions

BoSox?

Why all the Red Sox talk? Aren't the Indians going to win the World Series?

Make good money, five dollars a day.

by Toonderstrook on Oct 24, 2007 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions

sigh

i'm billing like crazy because i have to make that up to my bookie.

by larry on Oct 25, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions

a year ago

http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2006/10/25/15557/262

Brian Anderson, who was about to be placed on the back of milk cartons, finally arrived in Venezuela, Juan Uribe didn't shoot anyone, and Dewon Day was in the AFL... some things never change, unless Uribe shot someone.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Oct 24, 2007 5:25 PM CDT reply actions

BTW, Cheat

where the eff have you been? I mean, so much has happened this October. Not with the Sox, of course.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Ahem - excuse me, Mr. Ozzie...

Before you can get cute with your bunting and hitting and running it might be helpful to GET SOME FUCKING GUYS ON BASE FIRST! We need to get someone other than PodStad on top of the lineup.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Oct 24, 2007 5:26 PM CDT reply actions

Shopping for a Backup SS?????

This is the best line I've heard in quite awhile. If this isn't proof positive of the need for a manager with vision then nothing is. With gun slinging Juan Uribe in the starting lineup what in the world is this team doing shopping for a BACKUP SS????? Houston, we got a problem! This is hard to believe and proof positive it could be another 80 something years before this team wins another championship.

by waitonhim on Oct 24, 2007 7:08 PM CDT reply actions

Speaking of that USSM Article

I want the Sox to go after Bartolo this winter -- I'd offer something like two years, $18 million ($7 the first with a $11 option in the second year -- or even a little higher). He just seems like a good rebound candidate. I think it'd be fantastic if the Sox could trade Garland for a package of young players and then turned and signed Colon.

by CWSKeith on Oct 24, 2007 7:14 PM CDT reply actions

I think...

Colon is going to get a decent contract this winter. I think a dozen teams or so are going to want to take a flyer on him, given how crappy the free agent options are.

In any case, I don't think the Sox have room for Colon. I'd like to see guys like Broadway, Phillips, and Haeger get their shot before they go looking for veteran stopgaps.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 24, 2007 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Color me skeptical

Guys getting old and fat don't tend to get young and slender in a hurry. He'd have to show up about 30 lbs. lighter and with a haircut (and I dug Oscar Gamble's 'do big time) before I'd run after him. SP is not our need, anyway, unless we get CRAWFORD FOR JAVY. Then I'd look closely at a svelte, less hirsute Bart.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions

if we're gonna go dumpster diving

matt clement is the man. i've beaten the colon v. freddy v. clement debate to a pulp so i'll just leave it there.

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions

word.

to paraphrase carl newman:

on the upside, both sides win. on the down side, we buy, we pull through, through the season to go 70 and 92.

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Oct 25, 2007 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions

if you had to choose which pitcher to trade

who would you select?

I think this is the time to trade javy
his value isn't likely to get higher

get omar on the phone kenny!

by The Wizard on Oct 24, 2007 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions

i know i keep defending javy

but your point is well taken. this is as good as javy can be. he may repeat this success approximately, but he's maxed out his performance level at this point in his career. he's only going to get older and that means fewer K's, if not necessarily more walks. Fewer K's for Javy means more gopherballs.

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Oct 25, 2007 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions

I totally disagree with you

For one, I'm going out on a limb to suggest that his BABIP is actually a sign that he's imminently hittable rather than unlucky. Another is the fact that the number of guys who come back from shoulder surgery to pitch effectively are still very few. You lose velocity after something like that and Colon is a fastball-only pitcher. That's just not going to end well. Combine that with the fact that he wasn't that good in the first place and the only way I get him on my team is as a cheap 5th starter type, for whom I'm definitely not throwing down 9M/yr.

Maybe half that, but I'd rather have Prior, since he had mechanics problems more than anything when I saw him last. The only thing is that Coop tends to need 2 years with starters to get them going if they have mechanical/psychological issues (personal theory, anyway). If all they need is a new pitch and a plan, he can get them going pretty quick. Can you get minor league options included in contracts for veterans, or do you have to actually sign them to minor league contracts to do it?

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Oct 25, 2007 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions

Tim McCarver looks 150

years old. Get this man a truckload of HGH, stat!

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 7:28 PM CDT reply actions

Everyone Pay attention to Joe Buck

Conan Obrien put him up to say "Jub Jub" during the Series.

So long Pedro, hello hard throwing lefty.

by omnipotent grab on Oct 24, 2007 7:34 PM CDT reply actions

just heard it

buck: chris myers, our own (little?) jub jub

by The Wizard on Oct 24, 2007 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions

Damn I missed it

The game was getting slow and boring so I played video games for about 2 hours.

So long Pedro, hello hard throwing lefty.

by omnipotent grab on Oct 24, 2007 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions

What game?

I'm doing everything I can to put off studying for this Business Stats test that I have tomorrow.

If I had free time to play my 360 right now -- which I don't, unfortunately, standing as I am in Marquette's library -- I'd play Fifa 2008. Torres! Gerrard!

That, or Halo 3.

by CWSKeith on Oct 24, 2007 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions

torres! gerrard!

on their way out of the champions league!

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Liverpool finding it harder to win

when the referee isn't English and making ridiculous calls in their favor.

by Bull Pain on Oct 24, 2007 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah

Liverpool is in some deep shit in the CL. I see Torres didn't play -- I believe he's got a small tear in a muscle in his leg (quad, maybe?).

And that's funny about your comment with the refs. I haven't been on the EPL or European football trail long, but it seems every teams' fans point the finger at refs for favoring one team or another. Some things don't change from America to over the pond, that's for sure.

As far as calls, Liverpool's been on the other side of them this season, starting with the Chelsea game at Anfield where Maluda (I think) was awarded a PK on a terrible call. Fattie Lampard proceeded to bury it and the match finished 1-1. Things like this tend to balance out, I'd say...

by CWSKeith on Oct 24, 2007 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Mine was mostly just a shot

at the shocking no-call on Jamie Carragher's Roy Williams style horsecollar of Lescott in the box at the very end of the Everton game last weekend.

by Bull Pain on Oct 25, 2007 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions

i have a huge man crush on gerrard

and i don't know why. it's probably because he's not impeccable or anything. it seems like every time i watch, he screws away some easy finish, only to come back later and bury a ridiculous one.

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Oct 25, 2007 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions

You'll love this then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYHggzKlAi4

by the wimperoo on Oct 25, 2007 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions

that was hilarious

nicely edited too

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Oct 25, 2007 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions

That's funny

What is the purpose of making that YouTube video? So Gerrard had a bad game yet was rewarded MotM -- I'd imagine that happens all the time, just as it happens in baseball when guys who aren't quite the best candidate for MVP (Morneau) get the award.

I'd find that rather funny if he wants to take it further than just this game and call Gerrard a mediocre midfielder...

by CWSKeith on Oct 26, 2007 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions

Beckett is better than Clemens

in his day in these situations. I can't remember anyone who seems to thrive on these situations and raises his performance. This kid is amazing in the post-season.

I'll stop slobbering now.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 7:45 PM CDT reply actions

tell me

What do you think about Contreras and Juan Uribe to Boston for Josh Beckett and others?

-- Paul, Las Vegas

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions

LOL! Spit my drink, bro.

Paul = Theo Epstein?

Or has Paul been up 3 days straight wired on crystal meth, down to his last hooker and $100 of chips?

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions

BBQ or sour cream?

Love the "down to his last hooker" comment.

GO SOX!

by rhythm on Oct 24, 2007 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions

OK, I stand corrected

Beckett blows.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Pixies

If the White Sox had more Pixies they'd be in the series.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Oct 24, 2007 7:46 PM CDT reply actions

YAZ!!!

With the Sox Line Up.

So long Pedro, hello hard throwing lefty.

by omnipotent grab on Oct 24, 2007 7:47 PM CDT reply actions

Not a good way to start the game Jeff

So long Pedro, hello hard throwing lefty.

by omnipotent grab on Oct 24, 2007 7:49 PM CDT reply actions

Another Chicago Marathon

tale - the guy who dies was taken by an ambulance from Niles who got lost and wound up at the (drum roll) West Side VA!

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7369958

More good pub for Carey Pinkowski! Good work, men.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 7:49 PM CDT reply actions

boy

that home run by pedroia was stupid. just think how many they would have scored if he had lead off with a walk instead.

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 7:58 PM CDT reply actions

Shut up, man

You're wasting this on around 3 people tonight.

Speaking of a select group, how goes the wife? Can she turn 2? Does she choke up with 2 strikes? Does she go hard into 2nd to break up the DP? Can she steal a base? Will she take one for the team when we're down by one?

Inquiring minds want to know.

PS The answer if I was being asked these questions about MY wife would be no, no, no, no, and definitely not. But she has a no-trade clause.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions

THAT is a 3rd base coach, goddammit.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 24, 2007 8:24 PM CDT reply actions

i guess francona

should have gotten the cliffnotes of "don't do it unless there's a man on second and no outs, you only need one run, and mario mendoza is up."

by larry on Oct 24, 2007 9:33 PM CDT reply actions

FJM

Tears Ozzie a new one

by BustedFlush on Oct 25, 2007 9:30 AM CDT reply actions

LOL

That seems to sums it up - though I think the rip on the bullpen was missed.

by Brush Back on Oct 25, 2007 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions

my favorite

Guillen warned everyone not to be surprised if A.J. Pierzynski is laying down a bunt or executing a hit-and-run in spring training, and that even the core hitters (Paul Konerko, Jim Thome and Jermaine Dye) will be asked to work on situational hitting.

FJM: You seriously want to try to make Jim Thome try to move runners over with ground balls? You want to make Paul Konerko go the other way, instead of letting him just do his thing? Really? That's your solution? Trying to strip your only power hitters of their power? What else you got in store for the off-season, genius? You going to sign David Eck--

The Sox could give [SS Juan] Uribe a $300,000 buyout and attempt to re-sign him if they fail to land a free agent like David Eckstein, who can bat leadoff and play shortstop, or fail to trade for a younger shortstop.

FJM: Eck and the ChiSox. A match made in heaven.

by larry on Oct 25, 2007 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions

FJM is getting annoying

Ozzie is full of wacky ideas. We know. How about attacking the likes of LaGenius?

Dubee and Danks and pray for Taco Bell

by hscs on Oct 25, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions

so search under the tony la russa label

by larry on Oct 25, 2007 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions

I've read FJM since the beginning

Ozzie has been a whipping boy around there since 2005, more than any other manager. Focusing disdain on the already canonized managers would be a more effective form of whatever it is they're doing.

Dubee and Danks and pray for Taco Bell

by hscs on Oct 25, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions

unfortunately

they comment on what people say/write. larussa doesn't say anything particularly interesting in press conferences (now that torre is gone, he's arguably the most boring manager to interview). ozzie, on the other hand, does.

at any rate, more often than not, FJM comments on articles sent to them by readers. if you don't like the content, do something about it and find and send articles where tony, or others, say stupid shit.

by larry on Oct 25, 2007 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions

Like LaRussa managing the Yankees

rumor a couple of weeks ago? I would loved to have seen that. If he's drinking heavily in St. Looie, imagine how soon he'd be heading to Hazelton if he managed in NYC.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 25, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Hey, we made the WS!

The score was 13-1, with Boston having already scored more runs than any team in the first game of a World Series. Their eight doubles also tied a World Series record, one they will share with the 1906 White Sox and the 1925 Pirates.

The Hitless Wonders rule!

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Oct 25, 2007 9:38 AM CDT reply actions