2007 Community Prospect List: Results

by The Cheat on Nov 27, 2007 4:28 PM CST in White Sox Minors

Rk Player Name                   Pts
1. Fautino De Los Santos         147
2. Gio Gonzalez                  144
3. Jack Egbert                   109
4. Chris Carter                  105
5. Ryan Sweeney                  101
6. Aaron Poreda                   78
7. John Shelby                    63
8. Lance Broadway                 55
9. Jose Martinez                  49

I've only listed your Top 9. There was a 2 way tie for 10th, but those players ranked 34 points behind Jose Martinez. There were a collection of 11 different players who landed on at least one persons ballot who do not appear on the final list. It's so hard to differentiate from prospects that far down the chain, that I just decided to truncate the list at 9.

DLS was the runaway #1, even though his point total doesn't reflect that. He was listed first on 10 of 14 completed ballots. Only a 4th place listing on one ballot, plus Gio being listed at 1 or 2 on all 14, made it close. Either way, they were the consensus 1-2 in the Sox system.

From there, little separated the next three, Ryan Sweeney, Chris Carter, and Jack Egbert, with Egbert's strong AA performance and Carter's 25 HR in Kanny outpacing Sweeney's youth and scouting report.

I'll include my own list in the near future. Hopefully, before Kenny makes the list even smaller with a foolish trade.

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Comments

You obviously forgot

BA. Or not. That's amazing. In a bad way, of course. His absense from the list does say something about "prospects."

by palehose67 on Nov 27, 2007 4:34 PM CST reply actions

BA is not a prospect

Lists like this are comprised of players who have not used up their rookie eligibility (<50 IP <150 ABS <50 days on a major league roster)

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 27, 2007 4:36 PM CST up reply actions

cheat

including a link to the post with the past lists may be interesting to some posters.

by larry on Nov 27, 2007 4:38 PM CST up reply actions

Here you go

2005 List: We <3 Chris Young
2006 List: Sweeney over Fields?

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 27, 2007 4:46 PM CST up reply actions

Has Charlie Haeger...

passed his rookie qualification yet? Because I like him better than Broadway. But I have a soft spot for knuckleballers.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 27, 2007 4:40 PM CST up reply actions

nope, still eligible

i think i was the only one who voted for him.

by larry on Nov 27, 2007 4:42 PM CST up reply actions

Shelby

if Shelby repeats his second half from last season in Winston Salem next year, he's got a chance to fly up this list 2005 Chris Young style. Hell -- if he does put up an .875ish OPS at WS, he's probably top three heading into 2009.

by CWSKeith on Nov 27, 2007 4:43 PM CST up reply actions

I think he'd technically be a rookie

next year, since I'm pretty sure his '06 September call-up doesn't really count against service time. But I think most just assumed him no longer a prospect.

He took a tumble in my eyes. He'd struggle to crack the top 10.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 27, 2007 4:44 PM CST up reply actions

He's awfully young...

to give up on. It takes years to develop a consistent major-league knuckleball.

He just turned 24. Tim Wakefield didn't debut until he was 25, and he had trouble sticking in the majors until he was 28.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 27, 2007 4:52 PM CST up reply actions

But

this is going to be his last year to make it, at least in the Sox organization. He's going to use his last option year up, which means he either makes the '09 club outright or the Sox lose him.

I'm probably as optimistic about his long-term future as you are, but I just don't see him ever doing anything for the White Sox, which I've been saying for about 3 years now....

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 27, 2007 4:57 PM CST up reply actions

I'd rather...

the Sox burn a spot on the 25-man roster on him than some third LOOGY or Nick Masset, but you're probably right - the team probably developed Haeger so he can succeed elsewhere.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 27, 2007 5:00 PM CST up reply actions

just like the pirates did with wakefield, eh

by larry on Nov 27, 2007 5:05 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly.

In fact, I would not be at all surprised if, in 15 years, Charlie Haeger is entering his 10th season with the Red Sox.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 27, 2007 5:07 PM CST up reply actions

That's too bad

we could put him in the long man/spot start role in '09, where it would hardly matter if he sucked.

But that's dependent on the Sox realizing his potential value as a cheap starter for the next 10 years AND not letting Ozzie push him out.

OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 28, 2007 3:06 AM CST up reply actions

Charlie Haeger

Haeger is very interesting character that I am very interested to follow. I think he is victim of Arizona desert effect in Spring training. In his stint in 2006 this was his split.
(Remember he was called to fill in for Contreras because he had like .7 ERA in Charlotte in 8 starts)



Overall     ERA     W   L   SV  SVO G   GS  CG  IP      H   R   ER  HR  BB  SO  AVG

Total       3.44    1   1   1   1   7   1   0   18.1    12  10  7   0   13  19  .182

As Starter  10.39   0   1   0   0   1   1   0   4.1     5   6   5   0   6   2   .278

As Reliever 1.29    1   0   1   1   6   0   0   14.0    7   4   2   0   7   17  .146

He declined in 2007 but I think Sox should give him every opportunity to compete for long relief guy. But problem is, competition only happens in Arizona where he is destined to fail.

by indianguy30 on Nov 27, 2007 4:59 PM CST up reply actions

Competition happens in Arizona...

unless you're Brian Anderson.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 27, 2007 5:01 PM CST up reply actions

I don't foresee a foolish trade

Really, it's a 2 prospect system isn't it? A trade involving Gonzalez or DLS would potentially be bad. Outside of that, I think the system is pretty foolish-trade-proof.

I guess I'm not worried about Williams trading away prospects at this point. Crisp is the only real trade target I see. And the Red Sox aren't after pitching prospects.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 27, 2007 4:51 PM CST reply actions

Yeah

I'd call it a 3 prospect system. I wouldn't give up Carter's power potential...

Otherwise, Poreda can't be traded, Sweeney has limited value, and Egbert will always be considered a low-ceilinged prospect until he isn't, one way or the other.

Shelby is the only player whose value as a toolsy CFer, but one who is years away from the majors, would both be of interest to other teams and have most around here willing to give him up in the right trade.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 27, 2007 5:03 PM CST up reply actions

bolstering your position

MiLB.com is debuting their Top 50 prospects list (as determined by polling baseball execs from 20 teams) ... 31-50 are out now, with 1-30 due later in the week...

Surprisingly, Gio and DLS are absent thus far. I would think that 1) they both belong in the top 50, and 2) we would have seen one of them by now. If one of them isn't listed, I'd be surprised; but I'd be similarly surprised by both of them ranking in the top 30.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 27, 2007 6:19 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, but

it's "20 members of the scouting community" who are voting AP style (30 points for #1, 29 for #2 etc.). So these guys would be voting on propsects that they've seen or not. It's almost like the college football coaches poll. Prospects that started the year off the radar screen aren't going to get voted for unless they were personally scouted by that scout. Previuosly highly rated prospects will remain hgihly rated because they didn't bother to check his stats this year.

So you wind up with outdated results like Scott Elbert who blew his elbow out after 14 IP being ranked ahead of Johhny Cueto (one of the best pitching prospects in baseball).

I'm very very sure that no legitimate prospect ranking will have Elbert ahead of Cueto (or DLS or Gio for that matter). This is probably going to be a pretty meaningless list. And I'd agree that DLS and Gio won't be on it. The past seasons results are really their strong points. What do you think Cheat?

I'm waiting for Baseball america and John Sickels and Goldstein's top 100.

by bhoov on Nov 27, 2007 10:43 PM CST up reply actions

I believe Gio

was on the list two years ago, along with Anderson and Sweeney.

Last year Fields and Sweeney made the list. Sweeney obviously won't make the cut this year, but I would expect one of Gio/DLS to show up.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 27, 2007 10:49 PM CST up reply actions

Also

they only asked for the Top 30 from each member...

After compiling our own list in the same manner in this thread, I found that the bottom of the list was made up of those who only appeared on a few ballots...

If they only asked for 30 from each balloter, the bottom 20 is largely going to be a collection of those who appeared highly on a few select ballots...

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 27, 2007 10:54 PM CST up reply actions

Since I just had this up here is

Goldstein's (BP) list for comparison.

Five-Star Prospects
1. Fautino de los Santos, RHP
Four-Star Prospects

Gio Gonzalez, LHP
Aaron Poreda, RHP

Three-Star Prospects

Chris Carter, 1B
John Shelby, CF
Jose Martinez, OF

Two-Star Prospects

Jack Egbert, RHP
Ryan Sweeney, OF
Lance Broadway, RHP

One-Star Prospects

Brian Omogrosso, RHP
Kyle McCulloch, RHP

Looks like the major difference is that we valued Egbert and Poreda exactly opposite from Goldstein. And he appears to have given up on Sweeney.

by bhoov on Nov 27, 2007 5:15 PM CST reply actions

i think

on this site, poreda is hurt by virtue of being picked instead of poreda. and carlos gomez. damn that carlos gomez.

by larry on Nov 27, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions

second poreda = porcello

by larry on Nov 27, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions

I prefer the first version

as a "mind-bender".

2008 - Sox version of The Battle of the Bulge: The Final Stand

by winningugly on Nov 27, 2007 6:09 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed.

Although the Sox were never going to cough up for Porcello. Those that thought they would were fooling themselves. If the Sox had drafted Porcello, he would have gone unsigned.

Poreda did about as well as could be expected, considering how raw he was supposed to be. And Porcello has yet to throw a pitch professionally.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 27, 2007 5:22 PM CST up reply actions

excellent point

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Nov 27, 2007 8:12 PM CST up reply actions

Only 1 in AAA?

That's not good.

by striker on Nov 27, 2007 6:32 PM CST reply actions

actually

that's usually good. a sign of a good system is that the guys in AAA actually graduate to the majors. at any rate, i see four guys on that list who, if they're not on the major league roster, would start in AAA.

by larry on Nov 27, 2007 6:50 PM CST up reply actions

Good point...

Also... if there are lots of talented players in AAA, then it's a sign that the MLB team is stacked and there is someone blocking those players from coming in and playing everyday. And we know that's not the case with the White Sox.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Nov 27, 2007 8:28 PM CST up reply actions

i don't want to pretend

like the sox "graduated" some great class - but its a hell of a lot better than it was the past few years. outside of jenks and cotts in 2005 nothing really had arrived and succeeded in a regular role probably since rowand and crede in, what, 2002? hopefully fields is more jenks than cotts.

by larry on Nov 27, 2007 8:38 PM CST up reply actions

I hear you - that to me just speaks

to the point that we've been pretty barren for awhile, and by feedback received by others on this site, damn frustrating.

2008 - Sox version of The Battle of the Bulge: The Final Stand

by winningugly on Nov 27, 2007 8:40 PM CST up reply actions

I wonder whats taking so long

to announce the linebrink signing?

Hopefully a Miguel Cabrera trade

by Jbasic89 on Nov 27, 2007 9:44 PM CST reply actions

he's on vacation?

i thought he wasn't supposed to have his physical until today.

by larry on Nov 28, 2007 9:13 AM CST up reply actions

That was my list that put dls at

4 I think, but I'm pretty sure I used noticeably different bases than everyone else.

OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 28, 2007 4:17 AM CST reply actions

Gio #24 on the MiLB.com prospect list

Details here.

Nice to see he's that highly regarded. I'm surprised to see him ranked up there with players like Hurley.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 28, 2007 9:46 AM CST reply actions

i really, really like gio

i'm almost to the hyperbolic point of calling him a sure thing (to be a 2 or 3 starter, that is). i don't know what the sox plan to do with him next season - i'm guessing AAA to start, in large measure because floyd is out of options - but i think he's ready now.

by larry on Nov 28, 2007 9:52 AM CST up reply actions

I echo larry's sentiments

I generally think Gio is a little underrated around here. The main issues brought up about Gio are potential injury concerns as well as the fact that he repeated AA, but I don't think those are huge issues. First, the injury concerns stem only from his build -- if he were two-and-a-half inches taller, would people really bring up his injury potential? As the article mentions, he's now pitched 150 innings two straight years without a heckuva lot going wrong.

The second issue, that he repeated AA, is another thing that's greatly overblown. Sure he repeated, but he was also 21 years old for most of last season. Even with the second season in AA, he's still much more advanced than most young pitchers.

Gio has just about everything you could want from a prospect. He's got phenomenal K/9 numbers, appears to be improving and perhaps most importantly, he's getting the ball on the ground a little more -- his GB/FB was much improved from 2006 to 2007. Gio's a damn good prospect and -- not that anyone suggested this -- I'd be uber-pissed if Kenny traded him for a useful-but-not-great part like Coco Crisp.

by CWSKeith on Nov 28, 2007 10:51 AM CST up reply actions

That's a good sign...

Maybe I'm retarded too, obviously, but I can't look at ranks 1-20?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Nov 28, 2007 9:54 AM CST up reply actions

yup, you're retarded

but not because you can't look at 1-20. gotta build tension and anticipation, don't you? they're released in stages.

by larry on Nov 28, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions

SISC, have you signed up

in a 12 Step program recently? No mention of longnecks / cases / etc.

by ballyb on Nov 28, 2007 10:03 AM CST up reply actions

Check his previous posts

on a previous thread - new meds for migraines, man.

Gotta keep up, bally. (Though I know creating one-liners qualifying for Post-o'-the-Month keeps you busy, eh?)

2008 - Sox version of The Battle of the Bulge: The Final Stand

by winningugly on Nov 28, 2007 11:36 AM CST up reply actions

Interesting.

Maybe DLS is going to be top 20?

by bhoov on Nov 28, 2007 12:12 PM CST up reply actions

maybe

more likely he's still under the radar.

by larry on Nov 28, 2007 12:14 PM CST up reply actions

No DLS.

I'm gonna eat your brains and gain your knowledge.

by Toonderstrook on Nov 30, 2007 11:50 AM CST up reply actions

it's interesting

to note the relative lack of foreign players in the list. i'd have to think about it and do more research but it could either mean there is simply a lack of top foreign talent right now or it could be a bias amongst the scouts - who, presumably, have been following most of the american/drafted players closely for quite a while.

by larry on Nov 30, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions