Sox re-sign Uribe to 1-year, $4.5 mil deal

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 12:18 PM CST in News Comment 148 comments

The Torpedo Boat is back:

Shortstop Juan Uribe is returning to the White Sox on a one-year [$4.5 million] contract, general manager Ken Williams said Wednesday. The White Sox needed to decide by Wednesday whether to exercise their $5 million option on Uribe for 2008. Williams said the team re-signed Uribe for a lower salary. Uribe, 28, batted .234 with a .284 on-base percentage last season, but also had 20 homers and 68 RBIs. The White Sox value his defense, and club officials believe that if their other hitters rebound, Uribe will not be an offensive liability. The White Sox considered a variety of shortstop options before re-signing Uribe, including potential free agents Omar Vizquel and David Eckstein. Vizquel is close to re-signing with the Giants for approximately $5.5 million.

Here's the press release. *****

As colintj pointed out, Kevin Goldstein has his White Sox Top 11 Prospects list:

Five-Star Prospects: 1. Fautino de los Santos, RHP

Four-Star Prospects: 2. Gio Gonzalez, LHP, 3. Aaron Poreda, RHP

Three-Star Prospects: 4. Chris Carter, 1B, 5. John Shelby, CF, 6. Jose Martinez, OF

Two-Star Prospects: 7. Jack Egbert, RHP, 8. Ryan Sweeney, OF, 9. Lance Broadway, RHP

One-Star Prospects: 10. Brian Omogrosso, RHP, 11. Kyle McCulloch, RHP

Just Missing: John Ely, RHP; Christian Marrero, 1B; Jerry Owens, OF

Jerry Owens? *****

And The Legend wants to return to Chi-town:

"There's no reason why it couldn't happen. But it's a matter of going out right now and seeing what's out there. I'm trusting in my agent [Craig Landis] and hoping everything works out. Obviously, I'm going to be partial to Philadelphia because I played there. There's no doubt about that. I'd be lying to you if I said it wasn't. But at the same time it has to be right. ... I'm just as partial to Philadelphia as I would be to going back to Chicago, but it has to be right."

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so the good news is

no David Eckstein......

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Nov 7, 2007 12:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Do you suppose this is

just a "sign and trade" arrangement? I can't believe KW wants to plod through another season with El Gordo at SS.

"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 7, 2007 12:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not beyond the realm of possibility.

by ballyb on Nov 7, 2007 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think anyone will be lining up

for one year of $5mm -15VORP SS who has trouble buttoning his pants.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 7, 2007 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

(except the CWS of course)

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 7, 2007 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't bet the ranch on it.

by ballyb on Nov 7, 2007 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not true!

His XXXL pants fit just fine.

Can we really count on him being around next year? Who knows when the next shoot out will take place at his retreat in the DR.

"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 7, 2007 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh right

The ones he borrowed from Herm Schneider.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 7, 2007 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm fine with this

Keep him around for another year and make a strong push for Furcal next winter.

If we had signed Eck, I would've puked.

by BustedFlush on Nov 7, 2007 12:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I love how we think Uribe is worth $4.5 million...

because all of the other hitters in the lineup are likely to rebound. What the hell kind of logic is that? Isn't signing Juan Uribe mostly about Uribe's talents?

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 12:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

They're counting on a bunch of guys that didn't hit very well to hit really well to cover for tubby?

"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 7, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like the "value his defense"

comment. WTF? Are they watching the replay of the 9th inning of Game 4 of the '05 WS? Or last years heftier, less focused version?

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 7, 2007 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I picture Kenny

signing the contract, putting down his pen, putting his head on his desk...and weeping.

"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 7, 2007 1:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

haha

a half empty bottle of whiskey and loaded gun beside him.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 7, 2007 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just for the fact of no Eckstein.....

this is an acceptable move. Eckstein probably would have required 3 years. I'd much rather have Juan for one year than Eck for 3. I was probably in the pro-Eckstein camp for a 2 year reasonable deal until most defensive metrics had him declining significantly in the field this past year.

Juan is not as great as he used to be, but he's still average to above average defensively. Without being able to make a deal prior to the option deadline they pretty much had to bring Juan back. They don't have anybody else that can even play a passable SS.

by bhoov on Nov 7, 2007 1:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps Juan can present himself

as a professional athlete by dropping 40 lbs. and taking some hitting instruction, so he can stop swinging from his heals and take a walk once in awhile.

"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 7, 2007 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He already had personal instruction

When Hrniak helped him out in 05. Of course, Walk wouldnt have with someone having success on his watch so he undid it in ST of 06 when he adopted the Spread stance that Ozuna uses.

I am looking forward to Project Uribe 2007 I mean 2008 when they finally get his talent focused. LOL

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20070305/ai_n18726124

I still remember the Angry KW stating how changes will happen around the ASB of last year. The team looks pretty damn similar to the 90 loss dog that it was last year. We just keep giving contracts to players from that team, hoping they will all rebound together. Hope that its warm, that the perfect storm wont strike twice. Hopefully Kenny has something up his sleeve. This looks again of an offseason where we have great plans, then we have to adopt option D, the injured retread that may or may not stay healthy.

Maybe Kennys Market correction will happen, maybe they will remember how to hit again, maybe the above 30 year old players will play like they are back in their prime again. Maybe its just smoke and mirrors and we are fucked.

by southsideirish71 on Nov 7, 2007 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rotoworld thinks that Kenny still adds another SS

to push Uribe.

White Sox agreed to terms with shortstop Juan Uribe on a one-year, $4.5 million contract.
Uribe has posted sub-.300 OBPs the last two years and he's lost a step on defense because he's carrying some extra weight, but we'd still take him over Omar Vizquel for next season. $4.5 million is a nice compromise. He gets a $350,000 raise over what he made last season, and the White Sox save $500,000 from what they would have paid had they exercised their option. The team is likely to bring in another shortstop option in order to push Uribe. What they want is for him to show up at camp in great shape and prove that he deserves the job.

I can't wait to see Neifi Perez in a White Sox uniform.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 1:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Nah, we'll sign A-Rod to push him

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 7, 2007 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

According to Bruce LeVineLine of ESPN 1000...

the White Sox may offer Torii Hunter a 5-year contract worth $15 million per year. This would be the biggest contract offer ever by the White Sox.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 1:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That just means

That kenny has figured that Hunter will go for more money. We look like we are going for it, only to come up short.

Then we can justify the low cost option Ds that will be around after the FA dance.

Market Correction is just around the corner, LOL.

by southsideirish71 on Nov 7, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, I love when the Sox do this...

Offer a decent contract, but not enough to get the job done. 5 years / $75 million was a good offer a year ago, Kenny. This way, it looks like the Sox gave their best effort trying to land a big time free agent but in the end, they don't have to spend the money.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait a minute...

...so you guys will be upset if we don't sign Torii to a ridiculous 5-year deal?

by JasonC23 on Nov 7, 2007 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Would you rather see Jerry Owens out in CF?

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

The idea of paying Hunter $15 mil when he's 36 to play a substandard CF is less appealing than giving the job to Owens in 2008. Because if Owens sucks in 2008, he won't be around much longer.

Things I would rather do than sign Hunter for five years include:

Signing the younger and more powerful Andruw Jones for five years.
Signing Mike Cameron for a couple of years.
Picking up Coco Crisp, Lastings Milledge, Carlos Gomez, or Cory Sullivan at their current prices.
Signing Milton Bradley or Corey Patterson for a year.
Picking up Elijah Dukes or Rocco Baldelli for squat.
Getting a subsidized Johnny Damon for little return value.
Playing Brian Anderson in center.
Playing Ryan Sweeney in center.
Playing Jerry Owens in center.

Owens is the least palatable of those options, and I'd still rather have him in center than pay for the next half decade of Hunter's career.

by asinwreck on Nov 7, 2007 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Picking up Elijah Dukes/ Rocco Baldelli for squat

I'm a Cubs fan if they get Elijah Dukes.

Rocco Baldelli for squat? I don't think so.

by ballyb on Nov 7, 2007 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not saying it's likely

....but if the Rays deem the roster crunch warrants letting either the chronic felon or chronic glass skeleton go for little (maybe one of our non-Fautino/Gio young pitchers), I say take a shot.

by asinwreck on Nov 7, 2007 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kenny wept

He's already whining that he's getting outbid, and the bidding hasn't even started. Hey dude it is what it is, MLB revenues are growing 10% a year. If you can't address talent deficiencies through your minor league system you're going to have to get out the checkbook. If that's his excuse for throwing Owens out there again as a starter next year I'll, I'll, I'lll... well, I can't become a Cubs fan.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 7, 2007 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Responding to CPete...

It's great that KW whines about the market to the press, and how FA are getting more and more. Yet somehow he always fails to mention how MLB is making more and more every year...same old rhetoric.

by HulkSmash on Nov 7, 2007 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

CF options...

I'd rather have Andruw Jones as well but he is a Boras client and Kenny isn't a big fan.
Mike Cameron for two years wouldn't be a bad idea.
I don't understand why people like Coco Crisp so much. Our scouting department is apparently too stupid to like Lastings Milledge. Carlos Gomez is way overrated. Cory Sullivan is worse than Podthetic.
Milton Bradley is good but he is a nutcase and he's always injured. Corey Patterson is the CF'er version of Juan Uribe.
It doesn't seem like any GM will touch Elijah Dukes with a 10 foot pole. Everyone always says that Rocco Baldelli could be had for squat and yet the Devil Rays haven't traded him for squat yet.
It sounds like Damon may start in LF with Matsui at DH and Giambi at 1B.
Brian Anderson can't hit for sh!t and will never start for Ozzie. He is on his way out.
Ryan Sweeney needs another year in AAA.
Jerry Owens is a fifth, maybe fourth outfielder at best.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Except for Andruw, all short-term contracts.

I would rather have suckage in CF in 2008, a year when the Sox likely will not be serious contenders regardless of what moves Kenny makes, than an ill-considered long-term contract to a 32-year-old outfielder whose defense is already showing signs of decline and whose offensive contributions likely will not match his career year in 2007. It's a move that could be as damaging to the Sox' future as the Chan-Ho Park signing was to the Rangers in 2001.

Jerry Owens using his bat like a flyswatter for six months before he's tossed aside is a better option.

I would do 5 years for Andruw. He's a year younger, entering free agency off of a down year rather than a career year, and has demonstrated much greater power -- and better offense in general -- than Hunter ever has, making him a viable option in a corner spot should he have to move off of CF before the contract ends. He could thrive in the Cell. Boras is an obstacle, but we don't know what the market will give Andruw in an offseason flooded with centerfield options. Boras might be willing to deal.

by asinwreck on Nov 7, 2007 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Milton Bradley

Tore his acl I don't anyone is going to pick him up.

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 7, 2007 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not confident on the BA / RS choices

BA still not playing
RS .250 BA in the AFL
AFL Stat
The wrist injuries may be taking longer to recover from then expected.

by Brush Back on Nov 7, 2007 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Random middle IF news

For the only hitter who showed up in AAA this year and a guy we've spoken about before.

I've heard here's a decent chance that the Sox put Jason Bourgeois on the 40-man roster later this month. He is listed as a minor league free agent. But like Heath Phillips last year, I guess the team still has the option of putting him on the 40-man before the Rule V deadline. If he's not put on the 40-man, he is definitely fair game for any team.

He's playing decently as a CF in Mexico right now and might be a useful bench player as a CF/2B, 2 positions the Sox may have big problems with. Way more useful than Andy Gonzalez, who is actually a little bit older, and probably better than Pablo Ozuna, who is already 33!

by Bull Pain on Nov 7, 2007 1:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well then explain to me this

Why wasnt he called up in September. I mean was giving Erstad and Pods all those ABs and fighting to keep us out of last place worth not giving this guy a look. 3 more wins screwed us in draft position, meant nothing for last season and kept players like this from playing a bit.

by southsideirish71 on Nov 7, 2007 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because Kenny and Ozzie are stupid?

I can't think of any other reason that both Erstad and Podthetic were getting AB's late last season. This has to be the reason.

Erstad is already gone and Podthetic will be non-tendered.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

2 less wins, I think

2 more loses and we'd have the #5 pick instead of the #8 we have now

if my calculations are correct

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

According to larry

stars go about 7 deep or so in the draft. After that it's more or less league average and worse sorts.

So that could be a big deal.

OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 7, 2007 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He could be paired with Richar

and just be a guy to hit lefties in general, since we still have such trouble with that. If he can play a legit CF, he can hang around for at least a bit on this roster. He's certainly better, as you point out, Alex Cintron, Andy Gonzalez or Pablo.

OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 7, 2007 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

southsideirish71, you'll love the photo of Uribe..

at WhiteSox.com.

It's his classic Tasmanian Devil Profundo Spin-a-rooni Corkscrew celebration.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 1:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Foghorn will fill our ears

with more fables of the mythical beast that can carry an entire team. Of course this is the same Foghorn who stated he would take Uribe over any SS in the game at one point.

by southsideirish71 on Nov 7, 2007 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just wait until Uribe gets hot...

HE CAN CARRY A TEAM!!!

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why not?

He's already carrying a refrigerator.

"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 7, 2007 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is exactly what I thought would happen

just at a steeper price.

It would have been difficult to get Uribe to take a pay cut, and probably became impossible when Vizquel signed his deal.

I would say that we can't afford a 4.5M bench player, but we might if Kenny fills the rest of the bench cheaply. Mack and Cintron combined to make more than that last season. If they're replaced by league minimum type players, say, Borghoweveryouspellshisnameous and Owens, another SS isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 7, 2007 1:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Added Legend quote

The Legend wants to return!

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 2:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Possible Yabuta video

this maybe the RHP the sox had "strong interest: in

look at 0:56 for #20

his stats-page says #20 as well...

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 2:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Carrying the team

Maybe Juan can carry the team (3 or 4 games per year) but, given his girth, could the other 24 guys "carry him"?

Canada's finest

by MarkD on Nov 7, 2007 2:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully

away from the pre-game buffet.

"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 7, 2007 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bruce Levine -Josh Fields

Just reported that Kenny says Josh Fields is NOT going back to the OF. Worst case with juggling chairs he goes to first.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Nov 7, 2007 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Just heard that...

Bruce LeVineLine with the breaking news.

Levine said that Kenny told him Josh Fields will be a 3B and won't be playing LF in 2008. This is why Kenny is taking offers on Crede. I guess this means we could have a new CF'er and LF'er in 2008. Jerry Owens had better not be at either spot.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Levine also said that...

The White Sox are going to throw everything economically possible at Torii Hunter.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

Seriously, can anyone justify why Torii Hunter is seen as so damn valuable by the Sox?

I've read the assessment of Hunter by a Twins fan over on Sox Machine and it pretty much coincided with my impression of Hunter. He's not a bad player, but he's not great. And I think he's a bad fit for the Sox. He's a low-OBP/high-K player which is what the Sox don't need.

And having a bat like Hunter in CF means that LF is likely to manned by a Pods clone -- a light-hitting speedster. Because the Sox simply have to have a speedy leadoff man. It's the repetition of a repetition of a mistake.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 7, 2007 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's Crede with speed

I know you're not a fan of Crede, or maybe that was JRE (It doesn't matter)...

They were both once the best fielders at their position. Probably aren't anymore. Neither knows how to take a walk. But they have good, but not outstanding, power, and a flair for the dramatic.

Obviously Crede is a bigger question mark, and Hunter's defensive position (even though he'll soon be a corner OFer) and speed make him a better overall player, but they're other skills are pretty similar.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 7, 2007 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just baffled

Crede was a very good player for a year -- all-star level I think. I don't have a problem with a team carrying good defensive players with pop and low-OBP. But the Sox already have that power/low-OBP combo at several positions. They need someone who can get on-base.

I just don't see why the Sox would break the bank for Hunter. He's just not good enough to justify that.

My best guess is that KW loves the way Hunter bulldozed Burke. And if that's the case, it's another instance of valuing attitude over talent.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 7, 2007 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Andruw Jones makes way more sense...

But Kenny is jaded by seeing Hunter own us every season.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't have said it better myself

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Nov 7, 2007 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

you know they're going to find someone to play leadoff for ozzie. i wouldn't mind owens in left/center if we were going cheap for a year or two. if we're going to sign hunter, though, i just don't get it. since i never posted what i thought our team should look like (with a mix of realism), i'll do it now.

CF owens
LF l. gonzalez
RF dye
3B fields
SS b. hall
2B richar
1B konerko
DH thome

bench
sweeney
ozuna
uribe
t. hall
25th man, has to be league minimum

starters
MB
contreras
danks
floyd
gio

bullpen
jenks
thornton
macdougal
wasserman
logan
journeyman/japanese guy
egbert

yes, i'm a punt on next year and let the kids play guy. only FA is the great luis gonzalez on a cheap one year deal. garland and crede go to brewers for hall (perhaps with miscellaneous parts on either side). javy is auctioned off for prospects. i'd love to deal both jose (instead of javy) and konerko but i don't think it's realistic - obviously i'd be shopping them nonetheless. i'd consider dealing macdougal but i think he may rebound enough early next year that he's more tradable then. bullpens are erratic and i think those schlobs could be league average next year. obiously egbert is there for long mop up duty, which i'm sure will be frequent.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know that's not a good team

But I'd be ecstatic if that's what the Sox did. In fact I think what you've posted is the exact approach that I'd take (maybe not Gonzalez -- I'd rather go for a younger scrap-heap OF like Wilkerson or Mench but it doesn't matter).

by hitlesswonder on Nov 7, 2007 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you gotta have

veteran presence. at any rate, i just think gonzalez would be cheap and serviceable - and potentially flippable at the deadline for something decent (remember, he's got a ring!). then i'd insert sweeney in right and dye in left.

if someone else comes up (i'd love to have fukodome to put in center but, again, the realism angle) or gonzalez is too expensive, it's not hard to find guys to play leftfield for one year. stewart, lofton, bradley, nixon, on and on. plenty of guys available for a one year rental.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wilkerson would be a fun gamble.

A project for Herm, and probably one that would come cheaply. Might be an Ellis Burks payoff a decade and a half later.

by asinwreck on Nov 7, 2007 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

as an addendum

since i think bullpens are generally so fungible, i'd be having an open competition for bottom of the bullpen (that's basically read as "other than jenks"). this isn't going to be "nick masset makes the team" or whoever i have on that list makes the bullpen. broadway, phillips, sisco, masset, aardsma, vasquez, haeger, WU's mom, my grandma, WU's second wife, soulja boy, brian anderson, whoever else wants to pick up a ball, WU after he crushes the fantasy campers in january. whatever.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 7, 2007 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I enjoy the lineup you postulate

for the reasons you postulate - I still think we are 2-3 years away from contending - but am wondering if you feel this is consistent with what you were admiring the Giants for earlier this month (or end of last month) - keeping fans interested ($ inflows) while rebuilding by having a few marquee players chasing rainbows. Will Paulie (he of the 0% reality show poll interest), Thomer, MB, AJ, and Dye be enough to keep seats in the seats?

My Mom doesn't have the body type to hold up over 162 games, so I think your grandma, from all I've read, jumps ahead of her on the relief list.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 7, 2007 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

read below

it's survival of the fittest. i'll ride your mom until she wears out.

i'd fully expect a decline in attendance. but i also wouldn't be wasting lots of money. i'd have to add things up but that's a decline in payroll from 07. no one should believe any owner/GM next year - not even cashman - who tells you that payroll can't increase rather markedly next year. i know how much money is rolling in. i wouldn't be out there telling the fans we couldn't sign free agents or what have you. i'd tell them the truth: we're looking at our young kids. we're finding out who can play and who can't. that way we know where we need to invest. what's the point of signing a hunter or rowand if dye/sweeney/fields/owens/hall/etc. can do the job? i'd lay out the plan fully. we're banking this years cash. i'd tell them we're going to spend in 09 and beyond. and i'd tell them this will be a fun - although often frustrating - team to watch in 08.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why is 2010 so magical all a sudden?

KW hands out short extensions and we're all, "Oh ok, I guess that's a good idea. No sense signing any long term deals with a team this shitty". Well, what happens in two years? Abracadabra now we have young talent? All these vet contracts come up in two years, there's total jack squat in the minors ready to play by 2010, and in the meantime the going rate in the FA market keeps getting jacked every year. What, the FA market will be more affordable in 2010?

Luis Gonzalez? WTF, no way. Management got us into this mess, I'm not buying the BS that they won't pay the freight because the current market is unreasonable. Go out and buy some major league talent. Either that or bite the bullet now and unload all this crap and start over. As it is this mess keeps getting deeper, delaying the inevitable will just make it worse.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 7, 2007 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's going to be because

we have the cheapest-ass pitching staff around and will be able to afford it. Danks, Gio, Egbert, DLS will all be under our control for like 1 million on average. At least I hope so.

OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 7, 2007 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We'll go 4 for 4 on those pitchers in 2010?

What are the odds on any one of those guys being a good, solid 200 IP/yr starter - one in four? So the probability of all four of those guys making it is 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 = 1/256 = 0.3%

So we hang on to the old guys we have for now, and then wait for these young pitchers to be mlb ready in 2010. Then we say sayonara to all the old position players after 2009, and load up on FA's that winter so in 2010 we can put a fresh new studly lineup loaded with hot FA's to go with this great young (and cheap) starting pitching staff. Mercy!

If KW pulls this off he truly is a magician. Unless some miracles happen at the minor league level, we don't have the ammunition to pull off any trades and we don't have Yankee money to go out and buy a brand new lineup.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 7, 2007 9:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"At Least I Hope So"

At this point, only Egbert is well through the injury nexus and he's the lowest upside of the four. Danks is going through it, but he's got something of a violent motion. So does Gio and he's got a year. Fautino is in A+ to begin '08. Nothing is a guarantee.

OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 8, 2007 12:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope so too

I wasn't poking holes in your analysis, because I also think that's what KW basing his decisions on. And I imagine the odds of a staff forming out of this swirling dust improve a little if you include Floyd, Massett, Poredo and Broadway in the mix. But am I optimistic that abracadabra we have a young contending team in 2010? Richar, Fields, Sweeney, BA, Chris Carter? No.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 8, 2007 6:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You forgot Jose Martinez and John Shelby.

We've got pieces coming into play, a few of which have the chance to be stars. We just need to get to the point where we're actually feeding the big league club again. These next two years we're not going to have anything outside of Sweeney and Anderson except maybe Getz coming from our system wrt position players. Charlotte and Birmingham are depressingly bare.

OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 8, 2007 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also, I don't think Kenny thinks he's done

with acquiring pitching prospects of some kind. I mean you have to respect the mass and different kinds of pitchers he's acquired in not a lot of time. The actual list of Under 26 starters with something worth looking at looks like:

Danks
Gonzalez
Egbert
DLS
Poreda
Floyd
Haeger
Broadway
Sisco
McCulloch
Nevin Griffth
John Ely

All but 4 have seen time at AA or better.

And I even have a sleeper: Justin Cassel. He had some surgery or injury this year, but before he had it, he threw 30-40 innings with a GB% of 65 in High A (71 of 109 balls in play were GB) and he actually didn't pitch in Kanny because the front office thought enough of him.

OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 8, 2007 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Would you do Gonzalez over Jenkins?

I wonder what kind of contract Geoff Jenkins will command on the open market. If he'd be willing to take a one-year deal, he could post some decent numbers at the Cell.

This kind of plan makes sense to me, contingent on what Vazquez brings back (especially if Colleti throws him LaRoche or Hu). I'd be happy with Bill Hall at short and Uribe as a superheavyweight supersub.

by asinwreck on Nov 7, 2007 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

personally

i'd go for whichever is cheapest. i'm not too beholden to anyone.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

larry,

if you're the GM of the 2007 Chicago White Sox, there is NO WAY you can field that team you posted...no way. Not realistic. They'd be calling for Kenny's ass like you can't believe.

by dantesox on Nov 7, 2007 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so what?

you get the PR people to handle the PR. i get out there and say we're having a survival of the fittest year. hell, i'll let the fans decide each month who should be promoted from AA/AAA to replace whoever i deem too shitty for the bullpen. you promote the hell out of the young kids. there are many, many fans - not on here of course - who think jerry owens is frickin' awesome. fields is going to be great next year. you still have dye, thome, and konerko. i think hall is a rebound candidate. richar will improve. personally, i think that team could play close to .500 ball, despite the pitching being quite suspect.

bottom line, as i'm sure everyone is more than aware, i don't see next year's team being worth a damn anyway. we'd be pissing away money on a hunter or a rowand, etc.

by the way, as you noted in the subject, my name is 'larry' not 'Kenny.' they'd be calling for my ass.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you are

retarded

by Jbasic89 on Nov 7, 2007 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's some pretty cogent and meaningful analysis

good work. i know we're all better people for reading that post.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ya this coming

from someone who just said he would let the fans choose call ups...

by Jbasic89 on Nov 7, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He is right...

If I was the Sox GM, why would I cater to all of the idiotic fans who think that Jerry Owens is going to be the next Ricky Henderson, that think Joe Crede is the best 3B in baseball, and that only now realize that Podthetic isn't that great (it only took these homer fans 3 years to realize this)? Screw the stupid homer fans. If it was up to the average Sox fan, Eckstein would probably be leading off for us next season and Konerko would be manning 1B until the age of 50. And Thome would be gone because he sucks and isn't "clutch".

I would just try to build the best team I could and I wouldn't give a crap if I had to dump fan favorites.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

you have to cater to all your fans if you're a GM. sometimes, that means giving them something they may not know they want. i'd try to educate them about what i'd be doing and why it's a good idea. you ain't going to win over all of them - the debate on here is largely amongst knowledgeable fans and there is still a pretty wide range of opinion - but a GM's job is to try.

but, yeah, you gotta build the best team you can. right now, the sox can't really do that without compromising the future, too. my view is that figuring out what we have right now in our young guys and going from there is the best approach to long-term winning. it obviously all depends upon the pitching, but if we have a rotation of MB, danks/floyd, gio, DLS, and PTBNL (jose? egbert? broadway? FA?), i don't think it's a far jump to be competitive in 2009.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you don't think that would be interesting?

we let fans choose all-stars - why not the last guy in a 7 man bullpen? i'm not married to it. i would have thought it was fairly obvious that it was a flippant remark anyway. and, if it wasn't obvious to you: it was flippant.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so what?

Okay Larry.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Nov 7, 2007 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by the way

i totally forgot AJ. i looked at it about three times before posting and could not figure out why i needed the "25th man." that's why.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, signing Hunter would be moronic...

if Kenny is just going to let Owens patrol LF. Why bother wasting money on Hunter is a chump like Owens is going to be starting as well? We would at least need to pick up a guy like Luis Gonzalez or Geoff Jenkins to play LF if we are going to spend the big bucks on Hunter. Let Richar lead off for all I care with Hunter batting second. As long as Owens isn't starting.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Journeyman OF

His name his Matt Stairs. OPS+ Last five years:
2003 (NL) - 142
2004 (AL) - 104
2005 (AL) - 118
2006 (AL) - 92 ( traded twice )
2007 (AL) - 138

Why is this guy never mentioned? Can mash, his defense is slightly above average in RF or LF. Would probably be cheap as well.

by coffeepac on Nov 7, 2007 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe because he signed an extension?

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 7, 2007 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wow

that one slipped under the radar. sweetheart of a deal, too.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

he is ancient and terrible in the OF.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 7, 2007 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

true

but he'd probably be worth that money over one year, in terms of wins. pretty decent insurance for thomas at Dh and he still can play 1B. i wouldn't put him in the outfield if i could avoid it.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i thought about him

instead of luis. i just don't like canadians.

he actually makes a decent amount of sense for the sox because he can play 1B, as well. people seem to have some problem with toby hall being our back-up there so maybe it's a good idea to get someone else who can play 1B.

by larry on Nov 7, 2007 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who the hell does?

They are the scum of the world.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I do

what's the problem with canadians?

did I miss the memo?

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No hygiene, age of consent is 14, etc.

When you only have to brush your tooth at night, there's definitely a problem.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's silly...

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

signed 2-year/$3.5 mil with toronto

link

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If I saw Matt Stairs in a sox uniform

It would bring back memories of John Kruk or Ron Karkovice.

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 7, 2007 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

John Kruk was awesome

And had the best retirement speech in history.

I'm leaving and taking my ball with me.

Classic.

by coffeepac on Nov 8, 2007 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL I don't remember it but that is funny.

He was awesome but he and karkovice had to be 2 of the ugliest guys in the majors next to Stairs. We could call them the good the bad and well they were all ugly.

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 8, 2007 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Have you ever seen...

Him play in person??? He is the best defensive center fielder in the game in my opinion. I saw a game against us where he was playing in and shading right field, the ball would have been a home run but for the fact that he got a great jump, ran about 30 yards and stole a hr away from us. All this crap about demeaning every free agent center fielder is out of control. We need to put pressure on management to go out and grab marquee players if they are old or not. Batting wise he may not have the highest avg. or obp. but he is a clutch player that could bring a much needed spark to this team.

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 7, 2007 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well sign me up then

We have:

You saw him make a great play so he must be the best defensive CF in the game
He's clutch
He provides a spark

What a buy for $75M.

I've seen Hunter make a bunch of great plays. I've seen him botch some, too (watch the playoffs last year?). I've seen him rip up his leg scaling a wall and not be quite the same defender after doing that. He's still a good CF. For a couple more years.

Read this and tell me you think he's worth a 5 year deal and all that money. It would be a bad signing. I don't want someone that's "clutch". I want someone that can get on base. An OBP over .360 in the one or two spot would beat whatever spark Hunter would bring with him.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 7, 2007 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice link

This is the best part,
"First things first, to follow up on our Torii Hunter discussion, I asked Twins blogger and friend of the site Stick and Ball Guy for his opinion of Hunter's worth."
Hitless you are smarter than basing your opinions on a "twins blogger". Especially when this blogger talks about how great Hunter has been and how great he will be. Then turns around and says he sucks and is not worth any money. That was not a credible link. If you should be listening to anyone it should be me. I broke this story before Chris Deluca at the sun times. Here is what I had to say on Monday, Nov. 5th,

"Miggy Cabrerra will be available in a trade this winter. I guess Ozzie could get Miguel Cabrerra to walk in a straight line... maybe he would respect Ozzie because they are both hispanic. We would be able to trade Fields and Crede plus some starting pitching to fix some other holes depending on how much the Marlins want in return. This is by no means a need but it might be nice to get a premiere player in the game if we decide we can't count on Crede." Full article: http://southsidesox.com/comments/2007/11/4/183449/526/34#34

Here is the link to Deluca's article. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/638135,CST-SPT-deluca07.article and as you can see maybe I should be writing at the sun times.

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 7, 2007 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You broke an opinion?

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Nov 7, 2007 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he read my post.

He was like damn Soulja Boy yo shit is off da chain sonnnnn. No really it just seems like my opinions on what the team does may make a little more sense than what most of you guys throw out there.

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 7, 2007 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes it's true...

His opinion is broken.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 7, 2007 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No replys on the link that he gave me to read?

Or was I the only one who did not find that article credible?

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 8, 2007 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

With you're writing skills...

I sure hope you don't end up writing articles at the sun-times!

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Nov 8, 2007 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice contraction diss!

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 8, 2007 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean with "your"

haha I hope that was a joke rhythm. Remember you're = you are.

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 8, 2007 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, already have my GED

And, lucky for all who read SSS, I'm out on probation!

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Nov 8, 2007 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And you remember...

more than one reply = replies.

Make good money, five dollars a day.

by Toonderstrook on Nov 9, 2007 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who are you?

Why are you a sox fan?

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 9, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bwahaha.

A Viking god. If you don't believe me, ask wu.

Make good money, five dollars a day.

by Toonderstrook on Nov 9, 2007 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soljia Old Boy (SOB):

He is, he is. You must deal with it.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soulja, sorry

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL. I love Google

or I wouldn't know WTF you were talking about.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Johnny Drama?

"I am a Viking God" Drama thought he was hot shit because of his show Viking Quest rofl.

If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 10, 2007 1:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

kenny says

cdl:

So the Sox are definitely not pursuing a free-agent shortstop?

"Well, the free-agent market doesn't provide us with any better answers, in our estimation, than Juan," Williams said. "If there is an opportunity to improve -- in any area -- via trade, we'll go down that road and try to do so. But short of that, we are looking at Uribe at short with Danny Richar and [Pablo] Ozuna is coming back from injury, so he will get some time over there as well."
...
"Uribe is, and has been, one of the most consistent shortstops in the game," general manager Ken Williams said today during Day 3 of the GM meetings. "And we just felt that given the responsibility to try to upgrade ourselves at every position, to make the team better, we wanted to explore every avenue before having to make this decision. That's why it has taken this long because we wanted to give every club a chance to weigh in. Now that we've got a lay of the free-agent possibilities, combined with the trade possibilities, we felt that he was the best option."

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 4:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Consistent at what?

Eating donuts and putting up a low OBP every season?

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

His fielding % has been damn

near the same the last 3 years, if that's what he means. And near/at 20 HR/70 RBI. But beyond that he's getting worse - BA/range/OBP/etc.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 7, 2007 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

phil rogers says eckstein's back stopped kenny

pr:

David Eckstein nicely fit the White Sox's need to improve at the top of the batting order. But questions about Eckstein's history of back problems contributed to General Manager Ken Williams deciding to hang onto veteran shortstop Juan Uribe rather than counting on upgrading at that position.
...
Eckstein and Omar Vizquel apparently received the most consideration among shortstops in the free-agent class.

Eckstein hit .309 for St. Louis last season but was limited to 117 games. Williams wasn't willing to commit a multi-year contract to him given the medical questions. Williams indicated he had interest in Vizquel but more as a "complementary" player than an every day shortstop. San Francisco is reportedly close to re-signing him to a one-year contract.

Milwaukee is listening to offers for Bill Hall, the versatile player who was their regular at shortstop in 2006 and in center field last season. The White Sox do not appear to match up well with the Brewers, however. It's also unclear if the Sox ever considered Hall an option at shortstop.

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 4:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Whatever works

I'd rather sign Hunter than Eckstein. That said, how do we start the rumor that Torii's got a herniated disk?

by asinwreck on Nov 7, 2007 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

With Thome, Crede, Count, etc.

in the fold we have enough back issues to fill an Assisted Living Facility.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 7, 2007 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On MLBTradeRumors.com re Uribe signing.

This is terrible news. Does this make the White Sox less likely to sign David Eckstein?

As a Cardinals fan, I would appreciate some team signing him quickly so I never have to watch him not get to groundballs ever again.

by ballyb on Nov 7, 2007 4:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not Uribie another year!!!!

It is un believable that we dont have some kid some where who has a good glove, can bat .220, move guys along and bunt, play for the league min $ and be happy about it. I alost puked when I heard this guy will be back. Then I hear KW is going for Miggy Cabrera, don't get me worng, I'd love to have him, but is 3b a need?? Hey Kenny, focus else where please.

by spadog on Nov 7, 2007 5:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Whomever gets Miguel Cabrera...

is acquiring him for his bat first and position second. He is the best young hitter in baseball. Any team will take him, put him on a diet program, and figure out where he should play later. The Sox could use him at 3B, LF, or even 1B if they trade Konerko. A trade of Konerko is not likely, but then again neither is us acquiring Cabrera so I guess it's a moot point, haha.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if we go cheap next year,

and save say $10 mil, will those $10 mil go into the 2009/2010 budget though?

if the answer is no than who cares, as long as we don't lose draft picks?

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 6:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

neutral

Uribe is nothing to get excited about, but he's better than getting Eckstein for 2-3 years. As for Hunter, I'd much rather have Rowand or Jones (since I think they are better defensively). I agree with the posters above that Chicago doesn't need another Low OBP / Good Power player.*

*I know that Jones & Rowand equal this, but I think their defense is better than Hunters.

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Nov 7, 2007 6:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

ummm

no way rowand or jones are better than hunter defensively. have u seen andruw jones lately hes on the uribe diet and has absolutely no range. rowand is an overrated fielder because he gives 110% every play and works harder than other people becuase he doesnt have the speed other centerfielders do.

by Jbasic89 on Nov 7, 2007 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jones > Hunter

He isn't historically great like he was but I think he's better than Hunter now. Hunter steals a handful of HRs every year b/c he plays so deep, but Jones stops a lot more Singles & Doubles by playing shallow and being able to go back so well.

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Nov 7, 2007 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There is nothing wrong with power guys...

as long as they come with a high OBP. There is everything wrong with starting a low OBP, no power guy like Jerry Owens.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

fact

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Nov 7, 2007 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

More news on White Sox interest in Yasuhiko Yabuta

Yasuhiko Yabuta filed for free agency on Wednesday and indicated that he planned to seek employment in the United States.
Yabuta should be ranked right behind Hitoki Iwase and Masahide Kobayashi among Japanese relievers possibly making the jump. The 34-year-old right-hander is already receiving interest from the White Sox.

Source: Kyodo News

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 7:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

OK, THIS would seriously piss me off

Milling about: Jim Hendry is jumping into the fray at the GM meetings in Orlando, Fla.

Early reports and whispers center on the Cubs looking at Tampa Bay outfielder Carl Crawford, who batted .315 with 11 homers, 80 RBI and a nice .355 on-base percentage this year. The OBP is 24 percentage points above Crawford's career mark.

Crawford is a left-handed hitting outfielder, something the Cubs are actively pursuing. Over the weekend, Cubs insiders confirmed to the Daily Herald they're looking seriously at Japanese star Kosuke Fukudome, who can become a free agent this winter.

Tampa Bay will be looking for pitching, and the Cubs have pitching to offer. However, the Rays have been known to be slow to pull the trigger on deals, and the Cubs will watch Fukudome's situation carefully.

Cubs insiders said Monday that they've had no conversations with the Devil Rays since the end of the season. That could change this week.

I SAW HIM FIRST! HE'S MINE, GODDAMMIT!

If Crawford becomes a Cub, I ride my ass down to Wrigley and become a member of the Brick Club. As in, taking apart the masoleum brink by effin' brick.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 7, 2007 7:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

re

and the Cubs have pitching to offer

like who?

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd imagine

the Cubs would have to make a package around Rich Hill -- perhaps Rich Hill and Carlos Marmol? I don't think Tampa Bay wants or needs Pie, and Sean Marshall ain't going to get it done.

If the Cubs did something like Hill + Marmol for Crawford, their offense would obviously be extremely good, but their 3-4-5 in the rotation would be brutal.

by CWSKeith on Nov 7, 2007 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

would crawford play center

because soriano cant play anywhere besides left. remember the drays wanted garland and buerhle for baldelli a few years ago so i doubt hill n marmol would be enough

by Jbasic89 on Nov 7, 2007 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Cubs give up Rich Hill for Carl Crawford...

and Rich Hill is logically the guy they would have to give up, they would be screwing themselves over more than helping their situation. That should make you happy.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Imagine a rotation of...

Carlos Zambrano
Ted Lilly
Jason Marquis
Sean Marshall
Ryan Dempster

I hope they do trade Rich Hill for Carl Crawford.

by SSH2005 on Nov 7, 2007 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And I continue to cut and paste

From ESPN, for those who argue Hunter v. Jones:

3. Who would you want in center field, Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones?

Responses: Hunter, 14½; Jones, ½.

It's hard to believe that in 2005, Jones was coming off a 51-homer season and Scott Boras envisioned him as the crown jewel of the 2007-08 offseason. A .222 batting average will take a lot of luster off a player's image.

Even though Jones played at a lighter weight last season, he's not aging gracefully. He just won his 10th straight Gold Glove, but the consensus is that he's not the defender he used to be. He also lost points because of his failure to adjust at the plate, his seeming nonchalance and all-around regression last season. Jones posted a .413 slugging percentage -- lower than Melvin Mora, Kevin Millar, Kenny Lofton, Mark DeRosa, Yuniesky Betancourt and Jose Bautista, to name a few.

"He has so much ability, it's ridiculous," a National League official said. "That's what he's relied on all these years. But now he has to kick in the afterburners, and it's just not happening."

2005-07: Jones vs. Hunter
Here's a look at what each has done with the bat over the past three seasons.

PLAYER AVG R HR RBI
Andruw Jones .249 285 118 351
Torii Hunter .279 243 73 261
In a strange way, some people wonder whether Boras might try to parlay Alex Rodriguez's sudden appearance on the free-agent market into an opportunity for Jones.

"I think the tack Scott might take is to get few teams on the hook for A-Rod, then get two or three clubs who don't land Alex and bring in Andruw for 40 to 50 cents on the dollar, and say, 'I have a guy who's equally in his prime and has a chance to be a monumental impact player for you,' " an AL official said.

Yes, we're talking about the old "backdoor alternative" ploy.

As for Hunter, he has a .324 career on-base percentage, and he's crashed into enough walls and logged enough outfield miles at the Metrodome that the wear and tear have taken a toll. But the general managers see him as more reliable, a better leader and more of a team player than Jones. Trust us: Those attributes are worth something.

"The difference in defense is probably negligible these days," an NL general manager said. "But offensively, I think Torii is a better player. I'm not sure either guy is what we consider a 'professional hitter,' but Torii has a better chance to hit good pitching."

Discuss.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 7, 2007 7:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

no thanks

I dont want JOnes or Hunter...one is a dog and the other will be collecting$15m a year in 3 years when he is 37 and a DH??

I like Crawford if he's available, we have more to offer then the damn cubbies do.

by spadog on Nov 7, 2007 7:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hot stove is going

Brad Lidge to Philly for Bourne and a C+ (my estimation) 3B prospect (Costanza?).

Luke Scott needs to find a home somewhere. 660 major league at-bats with a 125 OPS+, .900 OPS player in the minors (albeit in the PCL)... I'd trade Crede straight-up for him (if it was possible).

by CWSKeith on Nov 7, 2007 10:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If the Astros didn't have such a shitty farm

I would think we might be able to extract more... Not that Crede's worth more. I just think Ed Wade and the 'stros are idjiots.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 7, 2007 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously...

Crede for Scott is fine by me.

Too bad Wade couldn't have gotten hired by the DRays

by hitlesswonder on Nov 7, 2007 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

re

si:

The Philadelphia Phillies became the first team to make a big move at the general managers' meetings, acquiring closer Brad Lidge from the Houston Astros along with infielder Eric Bruntlett on Wednesday night.

Houston received speedy outfielder Michael Bourn, right-hander Geoff Geary and minor league third baseman Mike Costanzo.

by The Wizard on Nov 7, 2007 10:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Another buy-low candidate

The Nationals appear to be interested in Mike Cameron. If they signed Cameron that would leave Ryan Church without a spot (outside of the first 25 games). Bowden appears to be doing a little bit better than he has in the past, but I wonder if he'd entertain Owens (fourth OFer) and Thorton/MacDougal for Church. The only bad thing about Church is that he requires a platoon partner, whereas Scott doesn't.

by CWSKeith on Nov 7, 2007 11:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Joe versus Josh

If Crede is here at the beginning of the season, Josh will be in AAA.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071107&content_id=2295651&vkey=news_c ws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

I wonder what speedy outfielder will be in Left. Too bad we value a guys 100m time over his ability to play baseball. Owens in LF and Josh in AAA will have me near meltdown levels. Thank god Crede's agent is Boras and will hopefully force the trade by his presence and comments about wanting to go to FA.

by southsideirish71 on Nov 8, 2007 12:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

You can't sit Owens

He's got skillz. He makes things happen and puts pressure on the defense. Speed never slumps. He can bunt..sort of. And someone fast has to leadoff because the Sox are going to pay $80M to put a .320 OBP player who whiffs a lot hitter in CF.

Seriously, if the plan is Owens in LF and Hunter in CF -- and that looks like the plan -- the Sox deserve every wretched loss they'll pile up next season.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 8, 2007 12:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs