The Legend won't be coming to the South Side

by The Wizard on Dec 12, 2007 3:02 PM CST in Quotes Comment 204 comments

The Giants have acquired a new center fielder, and he will be in San Francisco for a long time. The team will announce this afternoon it has signed Aaron Rowand to a five-year contract. Terms were not immediately available. Rowand, 30, has spent seven seasons in the majors, five with the White Sox and the last two with the Phillies, and owns a career batting average of .286 with a .343 on-base percentage. In 2007, playing at hitter-friendly Citizens Bank Park, Rowand established career highs of 27 home runs and 89 RBIs. He also has a reputation as a tough, gritty outfielder, perhaps best-remembered for a 2006 catch with the Phillies in which he crashed face-first into the fence in Chicago and broke his nose, all the while holding onto the baseball.

wow!

Terms of the deal were not disclosed, although the value of Rowand's contract was ~~believed to have approached the five-year, $90 million package that Torii Hunter, another free-agent center fielder, recently received from the Los Angeles Angels~~ reported by the Associated Press to be $60 million.

***** Regarding Mr. Fukudome:

One Padres official told the San Diego Union-Tribune the negotiations came down to "Show me the money." The Cubs obviously have more money to spend than the small-market Padres and the White Sox offer was never seriously considered. San Diego immediately regrouped and signed second baseman Tadahito Iguchi to one-year, $4 million deal, and are expected to try and re-sign centerfielder Mike Cameron.

Update [2007-12-12 18:36:25 by The Cheat]: According to one report, the White Sox (and maybe others) were the high bidder for Fukudome.

In particular, manager Lou Piniella paid off for the Cubs again... helping sway Fukudome away from the higher-bidding White Sox and others.

***** In other news,

Jim looks at the remaining CF options. BTW, Kosuke Fukudome's projections: PECOTA: .289/.401/.504. CHONE: .283/.373/.465. ZiPS: .293/.382/.460.
The Astros acquired Miguel Tejada for 5 players (outfielder Luke Scott, pitchers Matt Albers, Troy Patton and Dennis Sarfate and third baseman Mike Costanzo). Tejada has 2 players remaining on his contract. BTW, the A's sure like our relievers. And the Royals non-tendered OF Emil Brown.
Hot Stove: Willie Randolph is considering Jason Marquis. And Omar wouldn't trade Milledge for Garland? -- The Padres signed Tadahito to a 1-year deal, and are after Mike Cameron, and Jason Bay. Scratch the Jason Bay part. -- The Rockies are targeting Luis Vizcaino. The Pirates too.

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Whew

Rowand's one of my favorite players, but I didn't want to see him back on the Sox.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 3:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

5 years for The Legend

The Giants will regret this.

by Big Daddy Kool on Dec 12, 2007 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Five years.

Probably at least 60 million. That's too much. We've got options that make more sense than that.

by dantesox on Dec 12, 2007 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll second that.

Rowand is a great guy with a great attitude, and I'm so glad that we didn't sign him for five years. I like to see him getting a big payday, but I'm glad that my team isn't saddled with that contract.

by palehose67 on Dec 12, 2007 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nice

now we can read jay mariotti tomorrow on how williams sucks!! hahaha, im glad hes not comin back for that price.

"We had a guy go into 2nd base as if his wife was turning a double play."

by The Deacon on Dec 12, 2007 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hello, 2009

As soon as Thome hits the DL, we can get my hopeful outfield of Sweeney, Owens, and Quentin (with Dye at DH). Hell, we may even see BA!

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The pain, only my enemies

should know. Oy!

Is it now official? KW has been pantsed by the Cubs, Giants, Angels, and Tigers. As Mel Allen once said, how about that?

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the pantsing of KW

has, at this point, devolved to that SNL skit of 'oops I crapped my pants.' Get KW a diaper.

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In what way...

has Williams been "pantsed"?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we can make the argument

for the other teams mentioned (though the joke is still funny) but KW got pantsed by the Angels. He thought he had Hunter lock, stock, ready to sign on the dotted line. Then he checked mlb,com and saw Torii in a Angels hat (exaggeration, of course). Regardless of whether any of us wanted Hunter or not, that was Kenny's 1A, and he got the carpet pulled from beneath his feet.

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe...

but this is a terrible signing by the Giants (assuming that it's for more than $10 million a year), and it would have been terrible for the White Sox. There are things to legitimately criticize Williams for, but not signing Rowand isn't one of them.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Irregardless...

this is a bit of a slight on KW's ability to go out and bring in, as WU said, the 'big fish.' This is not the way KW saw his offseason going.

I mean, I hear this rhetoric all the time, of 'well, it was a bad singing' coming from all over. Soriano was a bad signing, Hunter was bad, now Rowand is bad. So what's the alternative, never sign a big name? And what, rely on our farm system?

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

Every free agent is over-priced I guess. A bad or bad signing is a lot more complicated than that -- depends on the return you get for resources expended. Ans I think fear of a big immovable contract for an aging player in the future is a little unfounded in a lot of cases. Lots of contracts can be moved if some money is thrown, and inflation makes big deals look less bad over time.

I'd be interested if there's ever been a FA signing (aside from bargain ones like Dye) that JRE thought were good.

I agree that signing Hunter to a 5 year deal for $90M would have been bad.

But if the Sox had money to spend this offseason and that money disappears without adding much needed talent of any kind to the Sox this season, I'm not sure that's a good thing.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Context...

is everything. The Fukudome signing was good for the Cubs. It would have been bad for the Sox.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Immovable contracts

The way the market expands in baseball, this year's huge, bad, immovable contract looks reasonable in 2 to 3 years. See Jacque Jones.

"Can I borrow your towel? I think my car just hit a water buffalo." - Fletch

by mdmnd9294 on Dec 12, 2007 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

that was a real easy contract to move. only took like six months. and they get the privilege of paying detroit to take him. sounds like a really reasonable thing.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not uncommon

to trade a player with cash when a team is trying to move him. That provides flexibility and is cheaper in the long run. The Sox acquired Cabrera with cash, even though the Angels took on the bigger contract of Garland.

KW should consider that if he was ever serious about moving Contreras, but maybe the White Sox piggy bank can't pull that off.

"Can I borrow your towel? I think my car just hit a water buffalo." - Fletch

by mdmnd9294 on Dec 12, 2007 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But that...

undermines your point. If you have to include cash to trade a contract, it's not a "reasonable" contract. You're acknowledging that the contract makes the player less attractive.

And Williams is absolutely right to hold onto Contreras, at least for now. His trade value can't get much lower. Williams would have trouble getting a BP screen in exchange for Contreras right now. So why not give him a dozen starts or so in 2008, see if he can't put the pieces back together, and deal him to a pitching-starved contender?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK

You've convinced me that JJ was a bad example; A "reasonable" contract is also contigent on the player performing, which he did not until the end of '07. I'm still surprised that anybody took him.

But I'm not comfortable with the team relying on Contreras going into '08, but I agree there's not much to do. BP screen, indeed! That's a lot of "wishin' and hopin'", which I think the White Sox have done a lot of recently.

"Can I borrow your towel? I think my car just hit a water buffalo." - Fletch

by mdmnd9294 on Dec 12, 2007 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

some are more bad than others

this is a more bad one.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your pro bono opinion?

Do the Sox trade for an OF or is Quentin-Owens-Dye in 2008?

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

owens is opening day CF

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Although that was directed towards Larry...

I'll up a prediction and say, when either Dye or Thome go on the DL (and Dye moves to DH) Sweeney will take over right. Quentin-Owens-Sweeney.

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

C'mon, JRE

Where are the "big fish"? Swimming in someone else's pond, bro. Yes, he may not've been going for Rowand or Fuku but you have to admit (well, ou just have to) he's struck out on bagging the elephant. He's better at crappies.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There were no...

"big fish" this winter, other than Miguel Cabrera, and the Sox never had the pieces to trade for Cabrera. I'm happy about all of this. The sooner the Sox wake up and realise that they're not going to contend in the near future, the better.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So why did he set the expectation

with his "BF" quote? Just jacking with the fans? What kind of disingenious PR is that? He thought he had at least one wrapped up.

Now, I agree, we can admit we may not BAG the big fish but instead will be SLEEPING with them for the near future.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

even if this isn't how Williams saw the offseason going, I'm glad he's not jumping in with a ridiculous offer to trump all these other ridiculous offers just so he can say he "did something".

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He did do something

He committed $100mm to 14 players for 2008, and the roster that he built for his $100-115mm next year will be hard pressed to play .500 baseball. Signing a quality FA was needed to inject some talent into this team without further thinning out the minors, and he didn't pull it off. Failing to sign the big fish makes the rest of the payroll an extravagant waste of money.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The 2008 Payroll...

was going to be a waste of money no matter what Kenny Williams did. The 2008 White Sox are not going to the playoffs, and no free agent signing was going to change that. All Williams can do is try to limit the damage to only one season or two. This is not the time to bring in a pricey free agent.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really? I think this will be a .500

team. I think that's what Kenny constructed. LF was a disaster for us last year and considering what an offensive premium that position gets, it was responsible for much of our overall suck. Same with 3rd base, where Crede and Andy the Quite Possibly Worst Player In All of MLB took us to new lows. Both of those will be solved to some degree, replaced with younger .750-.800 OPS players with upside. Oh I almost forgot what a bat-and-ball abortion Uribe authored last year. Now we get a .750-.830 OPS SS with solid defense to replace him.

What did we lose? Garland, a draft pick, and a year of age for all of our aging players. I don't think that drags us back to last place. We'll just have a good chance of total collapse, is all.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 12, 2007 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He sort of has been pantsed

His plan was to bring in a FA CF and trade for Cabrera and -- that was "going for it". And he fantastically misjudged the resources that it would require to get those moves done. It's a significant mistake given that he gave up $20M and 2nd round pick for a middle reliever and traded for a 33 year-old rental SS instead of prospects with his best trade-bait.

You can say that Williams hasn't done much to hurt the long-term future of the club (yet....), but protecting the "future" wasn't his goal this offseason as witnessed by his other moves.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jimmy Two Times!

Where you been? How do you really feel about Rowand's signing, JRE?

;)

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 3:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

haha

We're officially down to the stems and seeds. Too bad Corey Patterson's a Boras client.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 3:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

IF....

Kenny tries to sign Cameron to a 1- or 2-year deal, he will have come up with my second choice for CF this offseason. (I wish he would have signed Andruw Jones for the price the Dodgers got.) Rowand and Hunter are dodged bullets...I would prefer Corey Patterson for two years to either of them.

If Cameron doesn't sign, I bet Kenny makes a trade. My anxiety there is dealing Fautino or Gio for marginal returns.

by asinwreck on Dec 12, 2007 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no way

I'd just as soon we played Owens before we put Patterson out there. Thank God we still have Jerry, cause we need that flexibility.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kenny Williams is committed to a championship!!!

Unfortunately, so is every other team. Next season is going to suck if we have to hear about "the vision" and then "how the performance sickens him, like a punch in the stomach".

by LVSoxFan on Dec 12, 2007 3:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I feel bad for Buehrle

He's probably thinking to himself, "WTF, I left all this money on the table to come back to four years of this?"

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 3:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He could've been caught in the

death trap that has become St. Louis. Chicago still rules.

But if he's a serious ballplayer he must be envious as hell.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully he'll waive his NTC

and the Sox can flip him to St. Louis for some prospects...

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha

Tomorrow's headline, "Buehrle offers Sox $2,000,000 to void his No Trade Clause"

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In hindsight,

I'm perfectly happy with not signing Hunter, Rowand (especially if it really took 5 years), Jones, or Fuk. I've also come around to realize that Garland didn't have much value, although as larry pointed out at the get-go, it would have been nice for KW to wait to see rather than setting the market. I'm also happy with Quentin and glad the Sox didn't mortgage the next ten years for two years of Cabrera.

But Linebrink, oh Linebrink. At this point, failing to land any "big fish" as wu would say, does Kenny regret this signing?

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 12, 2007 3:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

My thought exactly.

Unless he is like Bullwinkle ("nothin' up my sleeve! Presto!") and is planning to make a grand gesture that none/few of us can see, that signing was a terrible waste of resources.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is the question:

most of us breathed a sigh of relief with Rowand going somewhere else. But does KW see the same things we see now, the same things most of us saw for the past 15 months, or will he continue to bank on the here and now, ignoring that the whole system needs an overhaul?

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's the $500,000 question...

isn't it?

My guess is that the Sox stand pat and simply not make any more moves this winter, but who knows?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What annoys me

is that he had this goofy plan, which was predicated upon signing the top FA this winter. So based on the assumption that he WILL sign Hunter, he extends MB, JD, Uribe and AJ. Then trades JG for OC & Linebrink. And then he fails to land the big fish. Since the linchpin of this whole plan was signing Hunter, all of these other moves were just a horrible waste of money and resources.

Totally bass ackwards.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To top it off, Hunter isn't that good

He's a good player, but no perennial all-star. Hunter wasn't going to lift the Sox into contention.

If MCab was part of plan, that would be more understandable....

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kenny has a plan, oh yeah baby!

From November 3:

With so many needs, Ken Williams won't stay under the radar this off-season. In fact, the White Sox's general manager believes he's in position to pull off a trade, perhaps as soon as this week at the annual general manager meetings that start Monday in Orlando.

"I have a definite plan," Williams said Friday in a telephone interview while en route to an Arizona Fall League game. "The one challenge is our free-agent list and how much we can afford and how those players fit. But once those dominoes start to fall, things will start to fall quickly." Williams gave an emphatic "yes" when asked if he can make deals before Nov. 13--the first day teams can make financial offers to free agents.

Furthermore, Williams said Josh Fields' permanent position for 2008 would be revealed shortly, which could be predicated on a trade. "It will all be resolved soon," said Williams, who wouldn't share any hints.

Kenny, you were right - it's all been resolved. Yeesh. Now that the prime FAs who could actually make a 2-5 win impact are all spoken for, I just hope he doesn't freak out and start trading the few good young players we have in a desperate attempt to salvage 2008.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 3:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, my wife PLANS

to perform oral on me some day this century. That's the plan....I just don't know the details. I might already be dead when that happens.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But Winning,

once those dominoes start to fall...oh baby!!!

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

giggity giggity

by BustedFlush on Dec 12, 2007 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

better late

than never....

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call........... the Kenny Zone.

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Dec 12, 2007 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We are now on to Plan QR-aa

Don't worry...Super Kenny knows what he is doing.

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 12, 2007 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just wait untill Soxfest....

Unless KW has some earth shattering trade up his sleeve, just wait. There will be a line with people and pitch forks...

by Tony82087 on Dec 12, 2007 3:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Apology accepted...

I told ya Kenny wasn't spending that $15 million in 2008 that was supposed to be for Torii. ; )

And that's why "contract offers" don't mean sh!t until a player is signed.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mike Cameron...

Link:

San Diego immediately regrouped and signed second baseman Tadahito Iguchi to one-year, $4 million deal, and are expected to try and re-sign centerfielder Mike Cameron.

So who does Kenny acquire once Cameron re-signs with the Padres?

Corey Patterson? Trade for Coco Crisp or Juan Pierre?

*pukes*

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 3:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ozzie wants his speed guy

at the top. Let's face it already: we're looking at Owens or Crisp in CF in 2008.

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pierre....

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You'll see a grown man cry,

if we trade anything for Juan Pierre.

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but, but, but

he looks like such an old-timey ball player with his baggy pants and cockeyed cap.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 12, 2007 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If we could get him and Paul Byrd,

with his old time windup, we'd be the snappiest bunch in town!

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

followed by

a take-on-all-comers barnstorming tour of the southwest suburbs.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 12, 2007 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Only the ball was white

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Keep your pants on

Before the free-agent season, did anyone think it was reasonable to give Hunter or Rowand five years? If someone thought so, I sure never heard about it. So why is Rowand's signing and Hunter's signing continually portrayed as some defeat for the Sox and especially K Williams? Do you really want to be paying $12 m a year for the likes of Jose Guillen, and $18 m a year for a past-his-prime Torii Hunter? Or trading a bunch of your promising prospects for a declining and no-longer-chemically-enhanced Miguel Tejada? I'd like a new CF for 2008, but I'm glad the Sox have passed on the options available so far.

by LittleLooie on Dec 12, 2007 3:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

A few years ago

We had Lee, Rowand and Maggs in the OF. Now we have, gulp, Quinten, JO & JD.

Not cool.

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 12, 2007 3:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Where were

Lee and Ordonez in the World Series year? And how many have they won since they left the Sox?

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 12, 2007 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think they were golfing?

Maggs was second in AL MVP last year, Lee was pretty good and so was Rowand. All were All-Stars.

Not too shabby. I'd rather have the WS Trophy though.

Looking at the 08' White Sox OF makes me puke.

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 12, 2007 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

our opening day starting CF

dave roberts......?
they looked at him last year.

"We had a guy go into 2nd base as if his wife was turning a double play."

by The Deacon on Dec 12, 2007 3:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Who are we kidding

Kenny ain't got no plan.

He's gonna try to win it his way, with Owens in center feld.

I hate the 2008 season already

AIM : Option27

by Option27 on Dec 12, 2007 3:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That makes me think of an old song...

I'm the punky GM, known as K-Williams.
When I hit the winter meetings, I've got no plan.
I just throw some quotes all over the press.
I can't give a dollar, if I haven't got 50 cents.
I motivate the Tigers, I like to tease.
I play so cool, they've got to compete with me.
That's why you all got here on the double
To catch me doin' the Free Agent Shuffle.

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

love it

by BustedFlush on Dec 12, 2007 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You are the freakin' MAN, Hulkster

Divorce enhances creativity - from an EXPERT, bro.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've noted your creativity as well, WU...

must be something in doomed relationships that bring out the poet in us all ;)

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

kw

kw sucks dick, i want someone to kick the shit out of him

by tdegard on Dec 12, 2007 3:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Uhm

kids read this site, buddy.

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 12, 2007 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

apparently they post here too

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 12, 2007 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

even if Kenny was gay

How does that relate to his abilities as a baseball GM?

Protip: It doesn't.

Go back to your parents basement and play some more PlayStation, you uneducated slob.

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Dec 12, 2007 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

According to a comment on that Emil Brown article

"Emil is a terrible fielder, decent hitting with occassional power. But an absolute cancer in the clubhouse."

He regressed last year, but his '05 and '06 batting lines went sumpin like dis:
.286/.349/.455
.287/.358/.457

with a career line of .262/.329/.401

Try to pick him up? I say why the hell not. Our clubhouse seems to be immune to cancer (possibly even thriving off it; see: AJ) and he'd be pretty cheap, right? Career OPS of .730, playing in his home town...

Any of you wiseguys out there wanna prove me wrong?

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Dec 12, 2007 3:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

does he play CF?

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 12, 2007 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why bother? He can't play CF...

and I would rather see Quentin playing LF.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess that's what I was missing

Seemed like an okay idea to me, but that's why I asked for other opinions... I don't trust myself when it comes to these kind of decisions

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Dec 12, 2007 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't he 34?

He's old, a cancer, OBP of .300 last year...please we don't need this bum. I would rather have Sweeney in there.

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 12, 2007 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats, we're now the Baltimore Orioles.

$110 million payroll, a bunch of old guys, and 5th place on the horizon.

Awesome.

It makes oh-so-much sense to have a $5 million per year middle reliever on the downside for the next 4 years!

The only hope now is to unload Thome or (and?) Konerko, both of whom look like bargains in the current climate. Our farm system is horrendous. Time to rebuild it.

by ginandtacos on Dec 12, 2007 3:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

uhm

i dont care if the pope reads this blog, 2008 looks like its gonna be about as fun as 2007 was.....buddy

by tdegard on Dec 12, 2007 3:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You wish

2008 is going to be as fun as 2007, buddy. At least in 2007 we beat the Royals, not this year.

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 12, 2007 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

brother cheat's extremely religious

he's not very happy with gay language being thrown around on his blog. makes adam and steve think they can get married and all and that rubbing their penises on one another is okay.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There are better ways

to express your dissatisfaction with the job that KW has done.

Nobody gives a fuck if you use profanity, but saying KW "sucks dick" is infantile and moronic. I'm guessing you're a new visitor here, so do yourself a favor and lurk some more before posting next time. I've been here for a year or so (maybe more), and I'm still only an occasional poster. Lots of people here post some very insightful stuff, and it'd be a shame to have this blog deteriorate into a haven for homophobic one-liners that add nothing of value.

That said, if you have something to say; by all means, say it. But find a better fucking way to say it. This applies to all facets of life.

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Dec 12, 2007 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Giants sign Rowand to 5-year, $60 million contract

"Giants sign free-agent Rowand to bolster outfield"

$12 million a year for Fukudome and $12 million a year for Rowand (with a guaranteed 5th year).

I still don't see how either contract is bad in today's market.

Kenny is pathetic.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Rowand signs with the White Sox...

if we would have offered him the same contract.

$12 million a year is nothing these days.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you don't see how?

one contract is good. the other is bad.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fukudome's contract is better but he...

still has yet to produce in the MLB. He probably will do fine but there is still some risk there.

Rowand's contract would look a lot better at 4 years but it still isn't that bad at 5. $12 million dollars won't be anything in two or three years.

Both Fukudome and Rowand are 30 years old.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

$12 million won't be anything?

there are cycles to these things. you're quite the optimist on the mlb finances. bad contract. real bad considering which team he is on. would have been a similarly bad contract for the sox. rowand is a league average player at best. he'll be just about worthless when he can't play center anymore.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What cycles?

On December 9, 2004, the White Sox signed Jermaine Dye to a 2-year, $10.15 million dollar contract with a 2007 Team Option worth $6 million.

When will we ever see a contract like that again?

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you sure like strawmen, don't you?

i think it's fairly obvious that my point is not that one day we'll have again the opportunity to acquire the greatest hitter in the game for $200,000.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well the, what exactly is your point?

I don't see the money in MLB contracts going down as the years go by...

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you're smart

why don't you think about it.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought about it...

and while I thought about it, the price of MLB free agents is still increasing.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw his point as...

that a signing that's good for one team might be bad for another. These signings don't occur in a vacuum.

The Fukudome signing is fine for the Cubs - they're a contender playing in a weak division. He might well be the difference between a playoff spot and sitting home in October. That's worth a ton of money.

The White Sox and Giants, however, are bad teams playing in very strong divisions, and neither team will be able to turn things around on short notice. Adding an expensive free agent is not a smart move for the Giants or the White Sox right now.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So then, what should our solution be?

If signing free agents is a bad idea for the White Sox, what should Kenny do? And why isn't Kenny doing whatever this better plan is right now?

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe he is?

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 12, 2007 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That can't be it...

Kenny has stated with bravado that the White Sox will compete in 2008. He said that the Cabrera + Willis trade will help the Tigers compete with us.

And if you say that this was just all talk, the Linebrink signing ruins that theory. No team that is rebuilding spends $19 million on a reliever.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

okay

for those who constantly have stuff go over their head, KW was joking about the tigers competing with us. dry humor. ha ha. you know, my job got a hell of a lot tougher after the tigers traded for the greatest player of the next ten years so, instead of pissing and moaning, i'll make a joke. i know that joe cowely and his ilk are a pretty humorless lot but jeez.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you know

i've thought about that. that this whole signing hunter and trading for miggy and so on was just a ruse. who is it, nate silver?, over at BP that thought 07 was a designed disguised rebuild for the sox? i'm just not sure KW is that clever. and, even if he is, to pull it off he'd need to provide a contender at some point in the near future and it's difficult to see him doing that.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Linebrink signing refutes this idea.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really...

I'm having a hard time seeing how one contract to a middle reliever is indicative of a whole multi-year plan. It was a bad signing, but it doesn't commit the Sox to anything.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That thought crossed my mind too,

that all the sound and fury was meant to appease the masses. But apparently he really did lay that $15mm/yr for five years on the table for Hunter, you can't call that a deliberate lowball.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

re

you can't call that a deliberate lowball.

it seemed a lowball to me, no? (not that I didn't like it!)

from a post I made back then, I see the sox with the no. 3 offer

by The Wizard on Dec 12, 2007 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Since blowing up the team...

isn't a realistic option, stand pat. Talk about how you're trying to contend, but don't do anything that commits you to any one player for longer than a few years. Tinker around the edges, try not to put an embarrassing team out there, and build for the future. Try to find young players with some promise.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think people are saying...

The Fukudome contract us worth it to the Cubs because:

It makes them possibly the best team in the NL
It doesn't constrain them financially
Fukudome projects to have a .900 OPS

Rowand:

Doesn't make the Giants a playoff threat
Possibly constrains them financially
Projects to have a...what....790 OPS?

I'm not sure that I agree with it, but I think that's the reasoning...

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

us = is

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That may be true to us but...

Kenny is making moves on the assumption that his team can compete. Otherwise, he wouldn't be running his stupid mouth.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

don't forget the marketing opportunities

of signing Fukudome. Apparel sold in Japan, future Japanes stars looking here, etc.. I so wish the Sox would have signed him so the fans could have chanted "FUK U" to the other team every time he hit one out. It would be a classic.

Now the Cubs fans will be able to do it. Note the date and the time...the idea came here first before they steal it.

Show mercy. I get to watch the Rangers.

by Tim from Texas on Dec 12, 2007 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That was my thought, Tim

A great hook into the Asian community, great name, NEW face, great selling possibilites.

He would've paid for himself without intense production. Especially at 2 positions (leadoff and CF)!

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 12, 2007 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure where BP got that projection from

(actually I do) but to project Fukudome to have a .905 OPS is pretty ridiculous. Every Japanese player that has come over has lost at least 120 points of OPS. At least 2 superior players (Ichiro and Matsui) have come over and have a total of 1 >.900 OPS seasons between then in more than 10 years. And one guy that wasn't much worse than Fukudome (kaz matsui) has never even posted an .800 OPS.

As supported by ZIPS and Chone he'll be closer to .800 OPS than .900.

by bhoov on Dec 12, 2007 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Paid in Full

Thinking of a master plan
This ain't nothing but sweat inside my hands.
So I dig into my pocket, but all my money's spent
Thinkin' how can I get some dead presidents
I need money!

Owens - CF
Cabrera - SS
Thome - DH
Konerko - 1B
Dye - RF
AJ - C
Fields - 3B
Quentin - LF
Richar - 2B

Buehrle
Vazquez
Contreras
Floyd
Danks

*Puke* Man, this is what $110mm gets you?

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 4:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

wow

that is one of the most depressing things i have ever seen

by tdegard on Dec 12, 2007 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

get used to it

Now that we've officially struck out in the FA OF derby, any other moves we make will be zero sum tuckpointing. Unless KW wants to throw gas on the fire and start trading all our minor league chits for the Juan Pierre's and Coco Crisp's of the world. Looking at the above starting lineup, I wouldn't put it past him. As currently constructed, this team is worse than last year.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Someone should do a study

Of payroll allocation to different positions on teams. What do the smart teams do?

Contreras and Dye I guess are the 2 guys on there that seem like too much money for their performance...maybe Konerko as well.

I think tying up so much money in 1B/DH isn't a good idea...

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

3B

is the highest paid position on average, IIRC. though the A-Rod factor is significant (the rise of 3B and decline of SS in average pay can be traced to his trade to NY). after that are DH and 1B and outfielders, in varying order depending upon the year. SS and 2B are the lowest paid positions. relief pitchers are the lowest paid overall.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's interesting...

It seems like you should spend money to secure offensive performance at the positions where it's rare, i.e. SS, C, CF and then go cheap at places like 1B and DH where you should be able to pick up an .800 OPS guy cheaply at at least one spot...

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not sure i understand your logic if

you're talking about "average" salary throughout the league.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 12, 2007 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

KW

Likes to overspend on the lowest paid positions.

Two SS's making too much money.
An aging middle reliever due $19 million

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 12, 2007 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know this has been said before but when did

The Linebrick signing become a trend?

And Uribe prob won't be here.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Dec 12, 2007 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Omitting A-rod as an outlier

Would 3B still have the highest mean salary?

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Dec 12, 2007 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so I'm assuming we get nothing in

return for Crede?

by ckimcircles on Dec 12, 2007 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

KW will Not be outbid

for Cameron. He'll be our 2nd through 6th month starting CF for at least next year, likely the next 2. I don't mind this at all as there's still financial flexibility (in quotes), and another trade or 2 to come. Does anyone think Crede will be here opening day? After showing his health in spring training? Even if I'm wrong about Cameron, a healthy Crede/Broadway package could net Hall.
Not gonna rip KW until the season starts.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 12, 2007 4:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Crede

Could be non-tendered today. Might just kiss him goodbye. He has no trade value with his back at least until he plays a little.

Crede either gets let go tonight, gets traded shortly for basically nothing or gets traded after spring training.

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 12, 2007 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's what I said

he gets traded after showing his health in ST.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 12, 2007 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OOOHHH WOW...

Kenny isn't going to be outbid on his Plan F. Amazing, that GM of ours!!!

Watch, the Padres will end up re-signing Cameron.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do you care if it's A or F?

isn't the point to upgrade from Owens?
Or are you saying you actually wanted Hunter or Rowand?

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 12, 2007 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just frustrated with Kenny and the Sox...

never landing any top free agent targets since Albert Belle.

I will gladly take Mike Cameron at this point. But wasn't there hard feelings when the Sox traded Cameron to the Reds for Konerko? I seem to remember a rumor about Cameron finding out about the trade via ESPN. Haha.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm frustrated too!!

I don't want to spend a lot of money for this guy. Just let Anderson and Owens compete for that spot and see what happens.

by ckimcircles on Dec 12, 2007 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Now that's simply...

reasonable. How dare you! You didn't even curse KW. Seriously, I did not want Hunter, Rowand or Fuku at those prices. I don't hink many of us did. Those would have been unwise moves for the Sox this year. Good Lord, 19 days still remain in December. If nothing else, I'm thankful that there are crazier GMs in MLB to save KW from himself.

by palehose67 on Dec 12, 2007 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What I want to know is

how long does JR indulge this kind of spending? I'm assuming he signed off on the MB etal extensions on the basis of KW selling him on this "plan". Now that there is no more plan, I can't see him giving KW anymore walking around money. Doubtful we have the money to sign Cameron.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you're kidding, right?

the sox are fine financially. better than fine. unless jerry wants to make sure that the grandkids of judd malkin, charles walsh, jay pinsky, allan muchin and the rest of the old/dead men who own or once owned the sox get to buy lamborghinis in addition to whatever else they usually purchase with their share of the profits, they've got plenty of money to burn through.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course the money is there

I think that has been the issue. Folks either want them to breakthrough and spend like hell or blow it up. Cam is not breaking the Sox.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Dec 12, 2007 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my 2 cents CP...

He signed off on the MB deal due to inflation making him reasonably priced, combined with the '05 affection factor. I don't think JR had to buy into any plan of Kenny's for that one. Same with JD's signing.
I bet he'd have to be involved or sold if Miggy was really a possibility, or if Kenny wanted to expand the budget by more than 10%.
Just a guess in reply.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 12, 2007 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not a matter of can they afford it

At this point it's pretty obvious the cash is just going down a rathole. Why keep throwing good money after bad? If I were JR I'd just let this roster collapse in another heap like last year and then put it out of it's misery.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

unfortunately

you're not JR.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What's the difference?

It's not like Jerry/Kenny signed a top CF free agent this offseason when there were three available (Jones, Fukudome, Rowand).

Albert Belle.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what's the difference?

well, pete isn't jerry reinsdorf. he's younger. doesn't sound to me like he's jewish. he's not a lawyer, either. also sounds like pete would have mandated a different offseason plan than jerry. you're right that pete, as far as we know, has never signed a top CF free agent. that may be a function of him not owning a baseball team, though, so i'm not holding that against him.

cookie monster.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The point is that Jerry Reinsdorf...

obviously isn't spending much money either this offseason so it doesn't really matter if Pete is Jerry or not. Either way, it looks like Pete will get his wish.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh, just wait

i find it rather unlikely that the sox don't do something silly. KW may be many things but. for better or worse, he isn't a quitter.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Trading for Coco Crisp or Juan Pierre...

are the two moronic moves that I can think of instead of simply signing Mike Cameron.

Other than that, you've got me...

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oy Gewalt

Mein Gott, I gave this goy my wallet and he just kept on spending and spending and spending...

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's an idea...

Maybe Pete and me and a few others could put some money together and sign a CF.....

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"I don't mind this"

I wholeheartedly agree. But aren't the Padres lurking?

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 12, 2007 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

KW

He hasn't made any dumb moves, imo, except the Linebrink signing. I would love to see The Legend back, but not for 5 years. Fukudome was not going to play CF for us. Hunter's deal was ridiculous.
It sucks that we couldn't get Jones because the kids in the front office "aren't talking" to Boras right now.

All in all, I still want to watch a team that is at least trying to compete. Signing a free agent only takes money, and as long as people still go to the games then the Sox will have it. If they hold on to their young "talent" and sign Cameron, I'll be happy for the year. Cameron and Bill Hall were the best choices anyways. Cameron or bust.

by Raf on Dec 12, 2007 4:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Wonderfully said, raf.

I'm not sure I'm that into Cameron, but, yes, 1-2 years at6-9 mil a year is fine.

by dantesox on Dec 12, 2007 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

young "talent?"

theres nothing there.

by ckimcircles on Dec 12, 2007 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

That's open to interpretation. Hence the quotation marks.

by Raf on Dec 12, 2007 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

all of you say were the

new orioles but if we signed rowand, fukudome, or hunter wed be an even worse version of the orioles on account of all those people will be on the decline

by Jbasic89 on Dec 12, 2007 4:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Bruce Bochy quote on the Rowand signing

"I said I wanted to change the culture of the clubhouse and get back to the warrior mentality and play the game hard for nine innings."

Should they sign Erstad, the city of San Francisco just might declare open war on the rest of the country.

by BustedFlush on Dec 12, 2007 4:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

warrior mentality?

im calling giants 08 world series champions right now

by Jbasic89 on Dec 12, 2007 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i heard erstad played football

can anyone confirm?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I heard Erstad

can slam a revolving door.

by BustedFlush on Dec 12, 2007 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

The picture in mind of that is priceless...

"Can I borrow your towel? I think my car just hit a water buffalo." - Fletch

by mdmnd9294 on Dec 12, 2007 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no. i think it was hockey.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 12, 2007 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

k

if by playing football you mean, punter, yes he played football*

by tdegard on Dec 12, 2007 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

we've got a live one

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Erstad & Sosa are next

They can stage gladiator fights during pitching changes.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Acquiring Cabrera + $$

This has really turned into a mess. Wasn't one of the big benefits of the Garland-Cabrera deal the cash that the club received? This was supposed to provide more flexibility in KW's grand plan. I guess that goes into next year's "super stupendous plan that blows away the 2007 plan"?

"Can I borrow your towel? I think my car just hit a water buffalo." - Fletch

by mdmnd9294 on Dec 12, 2007 4:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That money...

went towards paying Scott Linebrink's 2008 salary. Maybe the Sox can flip Cabrera now.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Think we can get Garland for him?

Our pitching could use some help.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your signature.

It used to be funny.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 12, 2007 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

gulp

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 12, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That may be true now...

But wasn't the intention to use it to help fatten any signing bonus offered this winter?

I'm not disputing what that $$ will be used for now, but it's just another example of how badly this off-season has gone. He did the right thing in getting cash for that purpose, knowing he needed to be competitive up front, but he misjudged the market for his targets at almost every turn.

"Can I borrow your towel? I think my car just hit a water buffalo." - Fletch

by mdmnd9294 on Dec 12, 2007 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe...

but at least he stuck to a budget. I'm glad he didn't go nuts and do "whatever it took" to bring in one of the big names.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahh, the budget

That will provide a lot of comfort when we see 4 teams ahead of the Sox in the standings every morning next summer. I'd prefer reaching financially to contend than floundering in the cellar with fiscal responsibility.

"Can I borrow your towel? I think my car just hit a water buffalo." - Fletch

by mdmnd9294 on Dec 12, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Sox...

weren't going to contend next summer, no matter what.

Giving a long-term contract to Aaron Rowand just would have meant that we'd be watching a more expensive fourth-place team.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Giants saw fit to do it

then we probably didn't want to. When was the last time Brian Sabean did something right?

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 12, 2007 5:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Now that was funny

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Dec 12, 2007 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Somehow I find it difficult to believe

Lou Piniella was responsible for luring Kosume Fukudome.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 12, 2007 5:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

C'mon

that's the script the Cubs have given to their beat writers. No need to focus on his brutal management in the playoffs, where the cubs were swept.

It's still the honeymoon period, and will continue to be so until Big Lou has about 4-37 more blowups and the Cubs have a few more September collapses.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2007 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lou's Speech:

"It's almost impossible to get run out of town. They all expect you to fuck up in the most imaginative way possible and if you don't you're a hero. Maybe you get a million fewer per year, but come on. There's literally no stress."

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 12, 2007 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Great post :)

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

fuku just wants...

... to see Leapin' Lou throw another fit...

... or maybe Lou kicked some dirt on him and threw his hat at him already?

That Piniella tirade last year was silly. Even more silly that people credited it for the Cubs improved performance after it happened.

Gee, with that logic maybe the Sox should hire those losers who jumped the Royals coach a few years back. They can assault an umpire and we'll win the WS for the next 10 years.

by ruffster on Dec 12, 2007 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting...

The Astros are supposedly non-tendering Adam Everett.

He can't hit a lick, but what a glove! Someone will sign him cheap, and be very happy with him.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 6:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Sox could go after him

The new plan: Acquire the backup to the backup SS and then sit back and wait for the regular season to start

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kenny Williams is a f***ing idiot !

Signing Rowand would've been by far his best move of the winter. $12 mi. a year is a good deal for the Giants. What a no-brainer this was for the Sox. The Sox are guaranteed last place.

by White Sox Randy on Dec 12, 2007 6:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

As opposed to...

the fourth place that Rowand would have guaranteed them?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 12, 2007 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes :)

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you forget ?

We're going for it ALL this year ! Why else would we trade Garland for an old shortstop ? After we gave Uribe $ 5 mil. ? We're going to the WS even if the Tigers can compete with us.

by White Sox Randy on Dec 12, 2007 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good job by KW

He set a price that he though these guys were worth to the White Sox and he didn't budge. None of those guys are really worth what they got. If Fukudome could have played CF he would have been worth what he got. .830-.850 OPS RFers are not really 4/48 talents IMO. .830-.850 OPS CFers are.

Quentin will make what 500K and will probably provide similar production as soon as 2 years from now.

I like what he's done this offseason. He's made enough changes to increase our win total by 10 wins or so and by the time he's through (once Crede's gone) will have a similar payroll.

By the way, those of you who think our present lineup is worse than last year's really hasn't looked at the numbers we had at SS, LF, 3B and bullpen. Collectively those spots were very near replacement level. As I detailed in an earlier post just bringing those areas up to average is worth ten wins. That's not countin CF at this point.

I think KW has achieved his true goal: try to get as many wins as possible while not mortgaging the future. And isn't that really what his job is?

by bhoov on Dec 12, 2007 6:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

good to hear

im with you bhoov. im just going to look at this offseason as positive as possible.

"We had a guy go into 2nd base as if his wife was turning a double play."

by The Deacon on Dec 12, 2007 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"If none of these guys are really worth

what they got," then I guess the White Sox will never be able to sign a top tier free agent. They despise offering deals more than 4 years, dealing with Boras, and are still waiting for the "market" to correct itself. I just hope KW does a good job bargain shopping rest of offseason.

by ckimcircles on Dec 12, 2007 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

obviously im not counting on it

but who knows, we could find a bargain on someone who gets non-tendered, or some GM can be completely stupid and we could fleece someone?

"We had a guy go into 2nd base as if his wife was turning a double play."

by The Deacon on Dec 12, 2007 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or our GM can be completely

stupid and offer a 4 year deal for Linebrink.

by ckimcircles on Dec 12, 2007 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A team isn't made of one top-tier FA

It's made of 25 guys. You don't need a superstar on your team in order to succeed.

"P.S. if Cintron gets traded or released I will buy drinks for the whole board" - tubesox 6/24/07

by mjthor on Dec 12, 2007 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i know we dont need a superstar

on a team to win. Just a much of grinders trying their best.

by ckimcircles on Dec 12, 2007 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

his job is to make lemonade from lemons.
and he's not finished stirring/adding sugar.

Patience grasshoppers...

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 12, 2007 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he bought some expensive

lemons from Linebrink that is going to taste like shit after one year.

by ckimcircles on Dec 12, 2007 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

I think I've used some invective toward KW to this point. But what's the problem? He got decidedly better everywhere we sucked except CF.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 12, 2007 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the sox non-tendered andy gonzalez..........
hahahahahah
in other news, they held onto crede.
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071212&content_id=2323678&vkey=news_c ws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
and this also mentions trading fields....
KW cant be that stupid, can he?

"We had a guy go into 2nd base as if his wife was turning a double play."

by The Deacon on Dec 12, 2007 7:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

MLBTR

reported the non-tender of andy gonzalez.

"We had a guy go into 2nd base as if his wife was turning a double play."

by The Deacon on Dec 12, 2007 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Fields could get traded...

I think it's unlikely, if someone convinces KW that player X would really help the Sox go for it I think he'd do it.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mr. Williams aka G.M.

after being dissed by my fellow bloggers for being too critical of mr Williams and using profanity, I have decided to clean up my act. Instead, I will just say the four words no one ever wants to hear

" I TOLD YOU SO"

by BIG KLU on Dec 12, 2007 9:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

yup, you nailed it

ERSTAD

the Sox have this uncanny ability to get washed up outfielders and make them into world series mvp's---the same could happen to a healthy erstad.

by BIG KLU on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 10:49:42 PM CDT

http://www.southsidesox.com/comments/2007/1/23/175130/261/63#63

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Geez Larry...

what paralegal you got working round the clock to dig up stuff like that?

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it's his first post

i always start at the beginning.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That was his first comment?

I see...

by HulkSmash on Dec 12, 2007 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and

he has less than 50 posts. most of which, if i recall correctly from when they were posted, contained some variation on "white sux" and "fire kenny." not much to this guy.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 12, 2007 9:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs