Don Cooper is mad

by The Wizard on Dec 14, 2007 2:37 PM CST in Quotes

That MVP belongs to Big Frank:

"If you're not guilty of something, you're the first one yelling about it. This is a guy standing up for himself and saying, 'I might be a lot of different things, but I'm not a cheater.' He should be commended for that. His numbers shine even more, and it cost him a third MVP. I'd be ticked off, too, if I worked my ass off and a cheater stole it from me at the finish line. What the report says is that Frank stood up and said, 'Wait a minute, it ain't me.'"

***** In other news,

Before trading Chris Carter for Carlos Quentin, the Sox were ready to send Carter to the Rangers for reliever Akinori Otsuka. After reviewing Otsuka's medical reports though, the Sox killed the deal. And yesterday the Rangers non-tendered Otsuka.
Check it out: White Sox Cards.
Hot Stove: The Royals acquired 2B Alberto Callaspo by sending RHP Billy Buckner to Arizona. -- Luis Vizcaino signed a 2/7 deal with the Brewers or the Rockies. Geoff Jenkins is down to the Phillies and the Padres. -- The Astros are interested in Mark Prior. -- The Phillies are interested in Akinori Otsuka. -- The Padres are talking to Mike Cameron.
Carl's latest comic strips: Mascot Dark, Mascot Light.

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Comments

As everyone knows, Frank is

1st ballot HOF on the numbers alone. This, however, cements the deal for idiot voters. Well, maybe nothing would make Cowley less an idiot, but you know what I mean.
I almost wish he'd retire today so that the clock would start...

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 14, 2007 2:56 PM CST reply actions

ah, the resurrection of the giambi stole

it from thomas argument. how soon we forget that there were more deserving candidates than either of those two.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 14, 2007 3:08 PM CST reply actions

Actually, I DO forget...

who else was in the running. You can tell me if you'd like, or I'll look it up on the train. Time to go!
Have a nice weekend.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 14, 2007 3:13 PM CST up reply actions

Carlos Delgado in 2000...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/delgaca01.shtml

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 3:17 PM CST up reply actions

pedro was most deserving

there were better position players: Arod and nomar to name two. i think some feel delgado was better, as well.

i suppose one could argue that there are different measures but, by i think about just any way you'd measure it, pedro's year was unreal. like a 120 VORP, WHIP of 0.73, ERA+ of like 300. watching him that year was just ridiculous.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 14, 2007 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

Having watched Pedro pitch in his

prime, even if it was only on TV, remains one thing I feel incredibly privileged to have witnessed. He's one of the reasons I love pitching. His stuff back then was so incredible.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 14, 2007 4:49 PM CST up reply actions

best ever WHIP

of .7373. and well below maddux's "modern" record of .8108 from 1995, one of his magical years.

also a record in weighted runs allowed per 9 innings (1.55), probably the best way to compare across eras.

considering what hand he pitches with and where his home games were - not to mention the era and being in the AL against the DH - it's ridiculous, as well, that his slugging against was a .259.

best season by a pitcher ever.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 14, 2007 5:00 PM CST up reply actions

Pete v. Frank

In 2 starts against the AL Central champion White Sox in 2000, Pete turned in this line:

14 innings, 7 hits, 0 runs, 0 walks, 21 strikeouts.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2007 5:29 PM CST up reply actions

Actually, it doesn't matter

The bear market had begun, and everyone was juicing except Frank.

Water under the bridge. Even if it wasn't, Frank's ex-wife would lay claim to half of it.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2007 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

I

cannot wait for the day someone nails Sammy the way they got Clemens yesterday.....CANNOT WAIT.

by dantesox on Dec 14, 2007 3:28 PM CST up reply actions

You brandishing your pitchfrok

and torch, are you?

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2007 3:30 PM CST up reply actions

yes sir.

by dantesox on Dec 14, 2007 3:33 PM CST up reply actions

The other three...

real contenders were Alex Rodriguez, Pedro Martinez, and Carlos Delgado.

Martinez and Rodriguez were probably more deserving than either Thomas or Giambi, but had Giambi not won the award, Thomas probably would have.

Things would have been a lot different had Thomas won that award - no "diminished skills clause", for one thing.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 14, 2007 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

Whos who

It looks like who's who of Mitchell Report.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2000.shtml#ALmvp

by indianguy30 on Dec 14, 2007 4:31 PM CST up reply actions

ERSTAD!

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2007 3:14 PM CST up reply actions

In all seriousness, it looks like

Pete Martinez shoulda done won that thar award.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2007 3:16 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, him too.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 3:18 PM CST up reply actions

A-Rod? Pedro Martinez?

Who say you, contentious one?

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2007 3:17 PM CST up reply actions

I'll say Frank

since there's no clear consensus here, gotta go wif my homeboy.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 14, 2007 4:17 PM CST up reply actions

PS I really don't believe Coop

ought to be taking Cheat's name in vain. He's liable to go to SSS Hell for that...

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2007 3:28 PM CST reply actions

I have scary visions of SSS Hell

It's a place where all the posts are written by Soulja, highlighting the virtues of veteran leadership and 4-year deals to middle-relievers.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 14, 2007 3:37 PM CST up reply actions

HEY NOW!

I don't remember being a HUGE fan of the Linebrink signing... you could say I agreed with the signing at the time. I am not a big projected stats guy either, I believe that experienced talent trumps young talent ala 07 Diamondbacks. I was against the sox paying anything more than 5-75 for Hunter... I did not want to see "Fire and Passion" back for anything. I did not want the sox to deplete their farm system for a superstar that we will sign in 2 years anyways. I am not mad about this off season at all. I like Floyd a lot and think he could be a #1 in a year or 2. My SSS hell would be whoever the hell posts as cheat continually drools over a POS like Brian Anderson, is overly critical of our G.M., and wants to see another white flag trade. Someone who doesn't understand that the sox will lose all their fair weather fans (cheat) if they traded away all the names that won the world series for guys who are not established. I am sorry if I have no faith in prospects or projections. If I am your SSS anti christ then I take that as a compliment.

"Because I'm Chevy Chase and you're not."

by Soulja Boy on Dec 14, 2007 6:03 PM CST up reply actions

Take a bow.

"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2007 6:04 PM CST up reply actions

HahA

Thanks Clint! I forget the most classic line when he was dragging dude man through the desert... can anyone refresh my memory?

"Because I'm Chevy Chase and you're not."

by Soulja Boy on Dec 14, 2007 6:16 PM CST up reply actions

End of an Era???

Cheat, Soulja Boy brings up a great point. Quite a few of us have been meaning to talk to you about your fairweatherness and have decided that maybe you should go post somewhere else.

I nominate Soulja Boy to be our new leader. Can I get a second?

"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2007 6:16 PM CST up reply actions

Yea

like at bleed cubbie blue... I think cheat is really "Sox Man" http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=67492521
or judging by his profile he is the hidden identity of WU!

"Because I'm Chevy Chase and you're not."

by Soulja Boy on Dec 14, 2007 6:22 PM CST up reply actions

If you guys

scroll down far enough through his comments I added him as a friend then flamed him. If you are offended easily don't look.

"Because I'm Chevy Chase and you're not."

by Soulja Boy on Dec 14, 2007 6:23 PM CST up reply actions

Weighin in...

I've been passive for about a month or so, but had to weigh in here... Cheat's line of Soulja/hell needs to go in the SSS Hall of Fame.

Quality material!

by P-Hose08 on Dec 14, 2007 4:12 PM CST reply actions

SSS HOF

I'd be all for that. Could put in Long Time posters or perhaps just great quotes.

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Dec 14, 2007 4:30 PM CST reply actions

speaking of which

I haven't posted much lately, or really much baseball analysts. One is because I'm a lot busier with my new job and two is it is really hard to get excited about this offseason.

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Dec 14, 2007 4:31 PM CST up reply actions

Dayton Moore

understands how to be a GM for a team with the quality players they have right now. It seems that Jim Bowden does too, which is weird.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 14, 2007 4:52 PM CST reply actions

Twins sign Mike Lamb to play 3B...

"The Twins signed former Houston Astros third baseman Mike Lamb today to a two-year, contract with an option for 2010."

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 4:52 PM CST reply actions

That's

two excellent signings in two days.....exactly what they needed.

by dantesox on Dec 14, 2007 4:58 PM CST up reply actions

Meanwhile...

we have two 3B and two SS. Nice.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions

Luis Vizcaino to the Rockies, not Brewers?

"Vizcaino on the move"

Luis Vizcaino reportedly has agreed to a two-year, $7 million deal with a team in the NL, likely Colorado although other teams were involved.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 5:22 PM CST reply actions

Sox prospects on the move

Carlos Gonzalez, Aaron Cunningham, Chris Carter, Brett Anderson and two others traded for Dan Haren.

No link.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 14, 2007 5:28 PM CST reply actions

Link...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=22744

Looks like Kenny was outsmarted. The D-Backs use Kenny's prospects to obtain Haren.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 5:29 PM CST up reply actions

Also, D-Backs trade Valverde to Astros...

for Chris Burke and Chad Qualls.

"D-backs add Haren, deal Valverde
Separate trades announced Friday afternoon"

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 5:31 PM CST up reply actions

Trade details...

The D-backs completed a deal to acquire right-handers Dan Haren and Connor Robertson from the A's in exchange for six prospects, it was announced Friday afternoon.

In addition, the D-backs sent closer Jose Valverde to the Astros in exchange for infielder Chris Burke and right-handers Chad Qualls and Juan Gutierrez.

Included in the trade to Oakland are pitchers Brett Anderson, Greg Smith and Dana Eveland along with outfielders Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham and first baseman Chris Carter.

D-Backs swing three trades in one day. Crazy.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 5:34 PM CST up reply actions

The A's just love our prospects, don't they?

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 5:35 PM CST up reply actions

How was Kenny "outsmarted"?

I'm confused -- we weren't in any way going to be players for Haren. Who cares what the D'Backs see fit to do with Carter -- the trade will come down to (on the Sox end) whether the scouts have found a solid player in Quentin.

That's an interesting second deal -- Valverde for Burke and Qualls. Lots of interesting deals this winter, that's for certain.

by CWSKeith on Dec 14, 2007 5:36 PM CST up reply actions

At first, I only saw three names being traded...

Carlos Gonzalez, Aaron Cunningham, and Chris Carter.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 5:39 PM CST up reply actions

exactly

Here is a list of Arizona's prospects by BA:

Carlos Gonzalez, of
Jarrod Parker, rhp
Brett Anderson, lhp
Max Scherzer, rhp
Gerardo Parra, of
Emilio Bonifacio, 2b/ss
Aaron Cunningham, of
Chris Carter, 1b

As you can see Cunningham and Carter were complimentary pieces of this deal. But wow they've kind of gutted their system. Great trade by Beane. To tell you the truth I think that's a better package than Hughes/Melky/etc. for Santana. But the D-backs have gotta be NL pennant favorites now.

by bhoov on Dec 14, 2007 7:06 PM CST up reply actions

Over LA?

Push.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2007 7:09 PM CST up reply actions

This is what I think the Twins should do...

if they trade Santana -- quantity over quality. None of the prospects the A's got are big name prospects but they all have a chance of turning into good players.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 7:47 PM CST up reply actions

Dan Haren's interesting splits...

I've owned Dan Haren in my fantasy leagues for the past several years, and something I've noticed is:

Career Home/Away splits:

Home: 378.2 IP / 3.54 ERA / 1.19 WHIP / .245 OPPBAVG
Away: 402.2 IP / 4.09 ERA / 1.30 WHIP / .269 OPPBAVG

1st half vs 2nd half season:

1st half: 395.2 IP / 3.55 ERA / 1.17 WHIP / .240 OPPBAVG
2nd half: 385.2 IP / 4.11 ERA / 1.32 WHIP / .276 OPPBAVG

.... This was even more apparent last year when he had a 2.30/1.00/.205 line pre all-star and a 4.15/1.50/.298 post all-star.

He's really damned valuable in the first half of the season and just a little bit above league average the rest. Not good for a contending ball club.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 14, 2007 7:08 PM CST reply actions

Some MLB news...

"MLB.com says the Rockies and Luis Vizcaino are close to a multiyear agreement."

"Catcher Gary Bennett admits to HGH usage."

"The Padres signed LHP Shawn Estes and LHP Glendon Rusch to minor league contracts and invited them to spring training."

"With the trade of Jose Valverde to Houston, Tony Pena becomes the clear favorite for saves in Arizona."

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 8:02 PM CST reply actions

Mike Cameron is not re-signing with the Padres...

The Padres and free agent Mike Cameron are done negotiating after talks failed to produce a resolution.
"In the end we were just not able to reach agreement with the Padres," agent Mike Nicotera said. "They are moving in another direction as are we. There was just never a meeting of the minds with him. It was certainly amicable." The Padres have been pursuing Geoff Jenkins, but they also want to add a strong defender to play center field and Cameron was the best option remaining. With the Padres out, Texas might now be the best match for Cameron. The Phillies have said they're not interested, and if the White Sox have any level of interest, they've kept it very quiet.

Source: San Diego Union-Tribune

So both the Padres and Phillies are out of the Cameron sweepstakes. That leaves the Rangers and the White Sox. Maybe after missing out on all of the guys that he wanted, Kenny has finally kept quiet about any interest he has in Cameron?

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 8:07 PM CST reply actions

CF is going to the kids!

this is your chance ryan!

by The Wizard on Dec 14, 2007 8:20 PM CST up reply actions

I hope not...

Anderson, Owens, Sweeney -- they're all busters.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 8:29 PM CST up reply actions

I won't put sweeney and BA in the same category

with jesse

and BA is no bust, he should've been the starting CFer when the season started...

by The Wizard on Dec 14, 2007 8:43 PM CST up reply actions

So far, Anderson is a failure...

but if Kenny does not sign Cameron, I would rather have Anderson starting in CF for his defense than wasting talent to acquire bums like Coco Crisp or Juan Pierre. There is also no reason to sign Corey Patterson instead of sticking with Anderson either. Let Owens be the fourth outfielder and give Sweeney another season in AAA.

Basically, if Kenny can't sign Cameron, he may as well stop trying to acquire a CF'er and stick with Anderson/Owens/Sweeney because there is no one else out there worth it.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions

So far, Anderson wasn't given the chance he should

diary here

on everything else I agree with you

well, maybe our scouts like alexei ramirez...

by The Wizard on Dec 14, 2007 9:16 PM CST up reply actions

BA

I've heard that in 2006 BA was getting wasted frequently at some Chicago bar. Apparently he was after some waitress that worked there.

I don't know if Ozzie knew this, but this could be one of the many reasons he's pissed at him. I'd love to see his stats for Sunday day games at home.

by griz on Dec 16, 2007 2:03 AM CST up reply actions

Please Kenny

All I want for Christmas is a decent CF. If you sign Cameron to a sensible deal, I will forgive you for Linebrink... maybe.

www.fratdaddy.blogspot.com

by Raf on Dec 14, 2007 8:46 PM CST up reply actions

Ken Rosenthal on Mike Cameron...

"Cameron to start looking at other teams"

Nicotera declined to specify which teams are interested in Cameron or which ones are looking to move a center fielder to create an opening for his client.

However, it is possible that Cameron could land in St. Louis if the Cardinals trade Edmonds to San Diego. Edmonds, 37, has a full no-trade clause, but likely would waive it for the Padres, sources say.

The Reds are trying to move Ryan Freel and Josh Hamilton. The White Sox are still in the market for a center fielder after striking out on free agents Torii Hunter and Aaron Rowand.

Even the Yankees could emerge as a potential suitor for Cameron if they include center fielder Melky Cabrera in a package for Twins left-hander Johan Santana -- a deal that remains possible, sources say.

The Yankees have told other teams that they plan to return Johnny Damon to center if they trade Cabrera. But such a move would leave with them a questionable outfield defense, and Cameron remains an above-average defender.

I still don't see the Reds trading Josh Hamilton but he is about the only guy supposedly available that I would want to acquire over Cameron. If Kenny was able to acquire Hamilton, I would be impressed.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 10:16 PM CST up reply actions

hmmm,

korea times:

``I want to play catcher and retire as a catcher, but it's not easy with the Bears because the team requires me to contribute as a hitter,'' said Hong.

sounds like a catcher from our farm-system!

by The Wizard on Dec 14, 2007 8:18 PM CST reply actions

Jim Parque denies use of steroids...

"No disgrace, Jim Parque says
Former pitcher disputes Radomski's motive"

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 9:06 PM CST reply actions

F.P. Santangelo admits to HGH use...

"Santangelo admits HGH use, says he'll 'face the music'"

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 10:43 PM CST reply actions

Padres acquire CF Jim Edmonds from Cardinals...

Link:

Moving quickly to replace center fielder Mike Cameron, the Padres have agreed to a trade that will bring them center fielder Jim Edmonds, a 37-year-old who has won eight Gold Gloves.

The Cardinals will get Single-A third baseman David Freese, a minor leaguer.

The Padres also will get at least $1 million from St. Louis to help offset the $8 million salary that Edmonds is due. Because the financial transfer is at least $1 million, the commissioner's office must approve the transaction, which is expected to be made official today.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 10:49 PM CST reply actions

This may mean that...

Mike Cameron is headed to St. Louis.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 10:50 PM CST up reply actions

Good trade for the Cardinals though...

For a broken-down CF'er, they get their long-term replacement for Scott Rolen at 3B in David Freese.

by SSH2005 on Dec 14, 2007 10:54 PM CST up reply actions

a 24 year old A-baller

is their long-term replacement? this was a salary dump, plain and simple.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 15, 2007 10:59 AM CST up reply actions

Ouch, didn't see that he was 24 years old...

The Cardinals are having an even bigger fall from grace as World Series Champs than our White Sox.

by SSH2005 on Dec 15, 2007 5:08 PM CST up reply actions

It's only our stubbornness

that keeps us from doing the same with Contreras.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 15, 2007 7:37 PM CST up reply actions

length of the contract is more important

as we've said many times, it's tough to go wrong with a one year deal. that's what this is, in essence, for edmonds.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 15, 2007 8:21 PM CST up reply actions

it's a very NBA move

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 15, 2007 8:24 PM CST up reply actions

I've always, always said...

We'll know Giambi's sorry when he returns his 2000 MVP, and it reverts to Frank Thomas, the second place vote finisher.

Until then, #### 'em all, and go White Sox--the cleanest team in baseball.

by Stealfirstbase on Dec 14, 2007 11:14 PM CST reply actions

Yup

Ozzie's got em scrubbing behind their ears EXTRA hard this year.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 15, 2007 12:18 AM CST up reply actions

If Cameron is another swing and miss...

I'd like to see Anderson or Sweeney in CF. Probably Anderson, and let Sweeney stay another year in AAA.

SSH... project me a lineup with Anderson in CF?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 15, 2007 9:22 AM CST reply actions

Only way that happens.....

is if either of them completely outplay Owens during the spring. It's Jerry's job to lose....

by stanchar on Dec 15, 2007 10:36 AM CST up reply actions

Actually the only way is if

Owens suddenly slows down. Ozzie is hell bent on the bantam weight guy at the top of the order ala the 03 Marlins.

If the others beat him out, Owens will still win ala Erstad last year.

by southsideirish71 on Dec 15, 2007 11:10 AM CST up reply actions

Anderson won't be in spring training (detention)

OR he won't play much. Just to insure that there's no outplaying.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 15, 2007 1:18 PM CST up reply actions

outplay owens? like a knife sliding through butter

except if this 'outplay' is like how erstad outplayed BA in spring training '06...

by The Wizard on Dec 15, 2007 1:22 PM CST up reply actions

i'm curious

what has anderson shown that would suggest he'd outplay owens? notice how they were playing at the same level last year? and which one was better? not to mention the major league numbers. they look like pretty much the same player at this point, in terms of overall production.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 15, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions

Larry, this touting Owens is getting ridiculous.

A few short months ago you chastised myself an another, "you must not have much faith in KW" (or something very close), for the 2 of us even discussing the possibility of Owens starting in CF in '08.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 15, 2007 1:31 PM CST up reply actions

things change

and who is touting owens? he's a poor player. but i find it amusing that brian anderson - who has shown the same exact thing as jerry owens of late - is some god on this board while owens gets laid into repeatedly. they're the same player production-wise.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 15, 2007 1:34 PM CST up reply actions

"owens gets laid into repeatedly"

If I recall correctly, you did a fair amount of laying into Owens during the season. Have you forgotten, it's only been a few months. In your humble opinion, which player would help the Sox more next season - O and D. Only 2 choices - BA or JO.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 15, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions

and?

i treat them the same. deifying one is ridiculous.

i've got two posts that you've replied to where i write they're the same player production-wise. i'm sure you're smart enough to figure out what i think.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 15, 2007 1:45 PM CST up reply actions

Who's touting Owens?

LOL. How many hitz, and counting? (Hears unzipping of larry's trousers again...)

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 15, 2007 4:34 PM CST up reply actions

two brief examples

1. XBH%

JO: (9+2+1)/95= 12.6%
BA: (23+1+8)/82= 39%

2. BA has a cannon, JO has a water-pistol...

by The Wizard on Dec 15, 2007 1:46 PM CST up reply actions

Anderson is a real center fielder.

Absolutely no comparison on defense.

Hey, I'm not an Owens basher. He came on strong (not in the XBH category) at the end of the season. And I'm pretty much resigned to him being in CF - unless Cameron is there. I'll be rooting for him. Our fate is in his hands.

I just loved watching Anderson in CF.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 15, 2007 1:54 PM CST up reply actions

ooh

defensive statistics. yeah. better arm. overrated aspect of defense but yes, BA wins that.

jerry also generally had to deal with the likes of a broken down dye to his left and fields to his right. BA had a less broken down dye and less broken down pods, who allowed BA to shade towards right a bit and protect dye because pods could handle left competently.

owens seems to be slightly better than average defender, probably due to his speed. BA is very good. i'd say the difference between their defense is largely made up by owens' on-base "skills." same player production-wise. one apparently doesn't whine as much as the other and doesn't refuse his employer's request to go to winter ball.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 15, 2007 2:03 PM CST up reply actions

CF defense overrated? of course not

the mack in CF experiment showed us

BA's superiod D helped elevate the dye and pods crappiness
once BA got removed they had to cover more ground and they seemed "broken down"

i'd say the difference between their defense is largely made up by owens' on-base "skills.''

i'd say not

one apparently doesn't whine as much as the other

he was right to whine for how ozzie treated him

and doesn't refuse his employer's request to go to winter ball.

how can you play baseball with a broken wrist that hasn't healed?
have you seen BA's medical records or are you making assumptions?

by The Wizard on Dec 15, 2007 2:25 PM CST up reply actions

Read what Larry wrote, wiz

he didn't say CF defense was overrated -- he said how strong a guys arm is, particularly a CFer's, is overrated. Although I would tend to agree that when your arm is as bad as someone like Juan Pierre's, it's not overrated at all, but I'm not sure whether Owens is in that territory.

by CWSKeith on Dec 15, 2007 2:40 PM CST up reply actions

I apologize for the misread

so you say CF defense is not overrated, it is a CF'ers arm that's overrated

ok, in this case I'll modify my post to: BA's CF defense is outstaning, JO's is not

by The Wizard on Dec 15, 2007 2:55 PM CST up reply actions

and the white sox

haven't seen his medical records? tell me another, wiz.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 15, 2007 4:49 PM CST up reply actions

I didn't ask that

my question was: have you seen BA's medical records or are you making assumptions?

by The Wizard on Dec 15, 2007 5:23 PM CST up reply actions

you know the answer to that

why waste time asking it.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 15, 2007 5:25 PM CST up reply actions

just wanted to be sure

by The Wizard on Dec 15, 2007 5:28 PM CST up reply actions

Big Frank vs Cameron

I don't know how we can brag about Frank Thomas for being clean and then want Cameron, who will be suspended the first 25 games for taking illegal substances?

by cachhubguy on Dec 15, 2007 1:51 PM CST reply actions

speaking simply and strictly for myself...

Its because we really need a CF. :)

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 15, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

excellent point.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 15, 2007 3:33 PM CST up reply actions

I'll also add that...

Cameron got busted for some type of stimulant, not steroids. Although I'm not a fan of use (and abuse) of either, IMO the stimulants aren't quite as bad given that a significant percentage of the US population is addicted to caffeine and is whacked out on sugar. Splitting hairs, I realize, and certainly not admissible in court.

As for the White Sox being clean, given the rampant amphetamine use in baseball for the past 4 decades and the overwhelming probability that Sox players over the years have taken their turn with the greenies, I wouldn't tout the Sox as a clean club. Perhaps less Sox players have been fingered for steroids and HGH so far (although the jury is still out on those two), but I think calling the team clean would be naive.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 15, 2007 6:33 PM CST up reply actions

I think you can say

that you would want a steroid user on your team and recognize that it's less moral than those who didn't. You just have to not think it's a mortal sin. I don't think any of us do.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 15, 2007 7:32 PM CST up reply actions

At least you're honest

Cheating is OK as long as you are my cheater.

by cachhubguy on Dec 15, 2007 4:09 PM CST reply actions

a little simplistic, but

I hear you about hypocrisy regarding cheating in sports. Your point is taken.

I can think of a couple mitigating circumstances when talking about Cameron:
1- he got caught, and will be punished. I'm assuming he's paying the price for cheating.
2- have you seen Owens play? Desperate times... :p

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 15, 2007 6:42 PM CST up reply actions

Sounds like the Cardinals have no interest...

in Mike Cameron and that Colby Rasmus will start in CF. They also think that Rick Ankiel can play CF.

by SSH2005 on Dec 15, 2007 5:02 PM CST reply actions

Andy Pettitte admits to using HGH in 2002...

"Pettitte admits briefly using HGH during 2002"

Also, "Clemens could return in '08 despite accusations."

by SSH2005 on Dec 15, 2007 5:04 PM CST reply actions

andy petitte admits his HGH use

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/15/pettitte.hgh.ap/index.html

this sure makes mcnamee look quite credible and clemens not so much.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 15, 2007 5:05 PM CST reply actions

As Mitchell said, the informants

had government reps present during questioning, and lying in front of them is strictly verboten. Ergo, they had great incentive to not perjur themselves.

I think these guys, scumbags/rats that they might be termed, probably are more honest than Roger Dodger and the rest that have major incentive to cover their own asses. We certainly can surmise that Canseco was more honest than most after the fact (though he, too, had an axe to grind - book sales - but sure seems to have been vindicated).

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 15, 2007 9:33 PM CST up reply actions

Hiroki Kuroda agrees to 3-year deal with Dodgers

Link:

The deal is pending results of a physical examination, which Kuroda took this morning at Centinela Hospital, but it's done and believed to be worth between $36 million to $40 millon.

by SSH2005 on Dec 15, 2007 5:07 PM CST reply actions

what do you guys think about chris capuano?

bb-ref link

I think I heard that the brewers would like to ship him out

what will it take to get him? is he worth it to the sox?

by The Wizard on Dec 15, 2007 6:22 PM CST reply actions

As far as I know, he's in decline

but the only thing that supports that notion off the top of my head is the precipitous drop in his winning percentage the last three years.

I wouldn't want to trade more than a bucket of balls for him especially considering he would be moving from the NL to the AL. Minor league contract with an invite to spring training, maybe.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 15, 2007 6:36 PM CST up reply actions