Kenny Williams' fishing expedition update
by The Wizard on Dec 22, 2007 12:50 PM CST
in White Sox News
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PrintHow about signing Orlando Cabrera to an extension Kenny?
"We've got other things we need to get to before we get there. We'll see how it goes. We've expressed to them a willingness to discuss it, and they've expressed to us a willingness to hear it."
Any interest in Mark Prior Kenny?
"No, not at this time."
Other news in the article: Josh Fields says Carlos Quentin will be a huge addition to the Sox, Jerry Owens spent part of his offseason teaching baseball to kids in South Africa, Erstad donated some dishes, and Ernie Young called it a career and is expected to take a job with the Sox.
- Jim looks on the Alexei Ramirez signing and brings news of Cleveland's latest addition: Andy 'TNT Canoe' Gonzalez.
- Speaking of ex-Sox players, Cliff Politte signed with the Cardinals.
- Grindness rankings. But where is The Legend?
- Can we classify every pitch?
- And Cheat updated the White Sox Pitch Type Data Google spreadsheet with the Xtra Base Hits data for each pitcher.
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How could you possibly say that?
(Engulfs larry)
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."
Alexei Ramírez's contract details...
Ramírez's base salary is 4-years, $4.75 million but he can earn up to $8 million in incentives.
"Ramírez agrees to four-year, $8M deal with White Sox"
The Chicago White Sox and Cuban exile Alexei Ramírez have agreed to a four-year contract worth up to $8 million with incentives, pending a physical exam, agent Jaime Torres told ESPNdeportes.com on Saturday.
Three months ago, the infielder/outfielder received a monthly salary of $20 as one of the stars of the powerful Cuban national baseball team. His new contract with Chicago has a base salary of $4.75 million.
These incentives lead me to believe...
that Ramírez already has a spot on our opening day roster. I doubt Ramírez would sign a contract with a lot of money in incentives if he was not given the chance to earn them right from the start.
yeah
because it sounds like this guy had a whole lot of bargaining power.
i'm sure he'll be given the opportunity to compete for a spot but it's pretty ambitious to think that a guy coming from where he was is going to be able to make the jump to the major leagues right away. frankly, the sox would be stupid to put him out there right away and they'd be even stupider to have guaranteed him a spot.
The guy went from earning $20 bucks a month...
to getting a guaranteed $4.75 million + a possible $3.25 million in incentives. Obviously, he had some bargaining power.
Hmmm...
You thought that Alexei Ramírez would get $7.5 to $8.5 million per year just 3 months ago...
http://www.southsidesox.com/comments/2007/9/19/1542/14563/4#4
you sure like to play gotcha
i pointed that out on the other thread already. things change. information improves.
Also...
On September 19, 2007, Larry wrote:
if i were negotiating this, i'd open with 2/$13MM and go from there, probably with a ceiling of 3/$24MM. but i want more info before i'd start throwing out numbers.
right
and what you were doing was oh so nice. i'm not stupid and neither is anyone else who reads this site.
Way out of line on SSS
No goading allowed.
"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams
Certainly not.
Unless you're a cheeky college student with indie tastes from a superior university.
His little smile pissed me off.
Superior?
How many new coaches do you guys have this year?
;)
And. larry, you can't have it both ways, Mr. Photographic (cursed) Memory. If someone brings up a previous post unflattering to you, you can't chalk it up to being "argumentative", since you frequently use other posters' previous words against them to point out inconsistent arguments.
Miggy and Willis, bro. Acknowledge and move on. But acknowledge, or you sound shrill, and it detracts from your obvious credibility.
And, Merry Christmas, all.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."
i think it's fair
to hold people to their consistency in what they say in a given thread. if someone wants to ask why an opinion has changed, i think that's fair as well. but it's pretty obvious what SSH was doing here. i replied to his initial gotcha post with why my opinion changed. and what did he reply with? totally unnecessary. he had no point other than to be a dick.
And, truth be told, you
play the same game, on occasion. (Not often, but occasionally, just to perpetuate the discussion.) I take no offense, and neither should you. Socratic dialogue. Iron sharpens iron.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."
Then why do you (occasionally)
play it, too?
Because it's fun, and anonymous, on this site.
Until you are called out on it.
Just stay consisent. You usually are cogent, accurate, and informative, but sometimes put someone up against the wall, usually desevedly so. If it happens to you, and it's accurate (if not deft) move on without rancor and defensiveness.
OK, I'm done preaching. Back to the holiday spirit.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."
stop
being whiny little bitches... I could only imagine what some of you guys look like. ROFL.
Toonderstrook's myspace page http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67492521
by Soulja Boy on Dec 23, 2007 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
new means good right?
and i think you're wrong about larry needing to cede anything to ssh. it was irrelevant, considering we had no idea what his talent level was. larry said as much in the old comemnt.
His little smile pissed me off.
that was back when we thought
he might be an MLB regular. that's not exactly how the scouting report reads.
His little smile pissed me off.
the mlb scouting bureau's for a start
and scouts from probably every team looked at him, too, and their impressions (or at least from some teams) have leaked out. no one saw him as a starter, at least not immediately. this contract obviously screams that.
yeah if i hadn't been 11 at the time
i'm sure i would have marveled at the difference. manu looked like they had no idea how to play defense in that game.
His little smile pissed me off.
ooh, arsenal won their derby
w00p. wish i hadn't been driving from umich to chicago.
oh you hear anything about how well the American players are doing.
His little smile pissed me off.
Home from finals I take it?
God, brings back memories - what a relief that was having the finals behind me and getting the hell out of AA for the holidays. Of course, there was always the lake effect whiteout blizzard to look forward to between Kalamazoo and Michigan City.
"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams
I drive back to the burbs every year
and not once have I run into a blizzard in that corridor. I guess I'm lucky or something. Here's hoping that continues.
His little smile pissed me off.
ManU is currently getting it's
comeuppance. 4-0 in the 80th or so (there's no clock for whatever reason) and 'castle is going for more.
His little smile pissed me off.
Well since it nearly doubles his
salary, I assume that he'd hit them for being a productive regular. The Sox are willing to pay 1M+ for bench support, as we've seen, though not for those years nor with incentives. So you should see him as a baseline utility guy with upside. In any case, he should start in AAA (or whatever level of American pitching he's ready for) because the value pays off most definitively as a starter. In order for him to become a starter, he has to learn how to become a major league hitter. Sitting on the bench isn't going to get it done, the Sox are surely aware. Unless they think he needs extra time with Walker. Which will undoubtedly work well.
His little smile pissed me off.
i see this
as more of a sort of 3 year contract. he's going to need time to get ready for mlb. he's shown acumen (sample size alert of course) in international competitions, which are certainly played at a higher level than the cuban league, so i think he'd easily be able to start at AAA. but how soon would he be able to really help at the big league level? i think a year is reasonable.
Agreed.
If we see him contribute in the Bigs in 2009 or even late-2008 (even as a quality back-up), I'd be happy. If he becomes more than that, then it's a heck of a nice deal. I like this pick-up.
i definitely agree
i think we can start to see what sort of player the Sox are expecting by putting some assumptions to work. 3 years of service for the 4.75M is still an expected yearly salary of ~1.6. What chance do you think he has of becoming a regular?
His little smile pissed me off.
Oh come on,
nobody would do that! By the way, does it need to be stated that defecting from Cuba ranks pretty high on the "grindy" scale?
Point taken.
Speaking of which, I assume the ex-punter is mulling over a dozen offers, and that's why we haven't heard anything about him.
Oh, also, if you assume he's
going to be in the minors for at least half the year, you know the Sox aren't going to get their value for him this year. It's more boom/bust than I made it out to be. I should have said the Sox expect the length of his contract to be worth at least 4 seasons of a super utility sort.
His little smile pissed me off.
if kenny doesn't sign a CFer
isn't it possible that ramirez gets the job at spring training and starts 2008 at center?
How does one judge Cuban stats?
Cheat posted both Alexei Ramírez's and Youliesky Gourriel's stats here. They are both great hitters in Cuba with Gourriel having more power than Ramírez. But while most scouts think that Gourriel would be a stud in the MLB and that his stats would translate over well, Ramírez is not given the same treatment and some people view him as a possible backup utility guy. I know scouting isn't all about the stats but why would one guy's stats translate well to the MLB but another guy's stats even though they put up similar AVG and OBP?
Gourriel
Is significantly younger and faster than Ramirez supposedly.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 23, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions
Johan Santana deal expected after New Year...
According to the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo, the Twins front office is expected to solicit "final best offers" on Johan Santana shortly after the New Year.
Cafardo goes on to say that if the Yankees don't add Ian Kennedy to their offer, which supposedly includes Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and some other minor leaguers, the Red Sox will land Santana. Boston is still offering Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie.
Cafardo goes on to say that if the Yankees don't add Ian Kennedy to their offer, which supposedly includes Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and some other minor leaguers, the Red Sox will land Santana. Boston is still offering Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Justin Masterson and Jed Lowrie.
Source: Boston Globe
The Red Sox package is much better
By '09, every one of those players will likely be ready for major league starting duty.
C Mauer
1B Morneau
2B Lowrie/Casilla
SS Everett/Harris/Lowrie
3B Lamb/Harris (platoon)
LF Cuddyer
CF Crisp
RF Young
4th Pridie
- Liriano
- Lester
- Slowey
- Bonser
- Baker
- Liriano
- Lester
- Slowey
- Masterson
- Swarzak
On the other hand, throwing out Liriano and Hughes back to back would be pretty enticing, too.
His little smile pissed me off.
Brewers still looking for a third baseman...
Link:
I would love to see a trade of Crede, Richar, and a prospect for Rickie Weeks but I don't see it happening. Weeks would make a very nice LEADOFF HITTER!!!
Brew Crew in the market
Brewers general manager Doug Melvin is still looking for a third baseman so he can move Rookie of the Year Ryan Braun to left field. "There are still some things we can do," Melvin said. "There are a lot of players out there looking for jobs still." Melvin could move Billy Hall to third and acquire a center fielder. Talks on Cardinals third baseman Scott Rolen never materialized, with the likelihood St. Louis did not want to deal Rolen in the division.
Brewers general manager Doug Melvin is still looking for a third baseman so he can move Rookie of the Year Ryan Braun to left field. "There are still some things we can do," Melvin said. "There are a lot of players out there looking for jobs still." Melvin could move Billy Hall to third and acquire a center fielder. Talks on Cardinals third baseman Scott Rolen never materialized, with the likelihood St. Louis did not want to deal Rolen in the division.
I would love to see a trade of Crede, Richar, and a prospect for Rickie Weeks but I don't see it happening. Weeks would make a very nice LEADOFF HITTER!!!
I saw this post at another Sox board...
As I was blow drying my hair this morning, I remembered to turn on 1000- I was just in time to hear Kenny. His comments included:
- He feels he's 4-for-5 this off-season in terms of acquisitions, with the miss being Hunter. He eyed Scott Linebrink months ago as the guy he wanted to see between MacDougal & Jenks, and as a means to take some of the stress off guys like Thornton & MacDougal.
- An off-season goal of his was to land Carlos Quentin- not a guy like him and who possesses his skills, but actually Carlos Quentin.
- He shored up the SS position with the acquisition of Cabrera.
- Feels the rotation has the confidence to get through 2008 without Garland.
- He said he was disappointed when he lost out on Hunter at the last minute, but knew he had to move on from there.
- He's done getting "major" arms for the bullpen, as Linebrink was the only guy he saw as a good fit for the 'pen, and he admitted that he "paid dearly" for him.
- Landed "that guy you may have heard discussed in the media yesterday" and he has excellent 2B, SS, and CF skills.
- Ramirez will likely play CF, unless he needs to replace Richar as the starting second baseman. He can also fill in at SS when needed.
- He has faith in guys like Anderson, Sweeney, & Owens, but made a play for Hunter because he wants the aforementioned guys to "get a little more seasoning" and not have so much pressure on them.
- He takes one day off an off-season- Christmas.
Is Kenny pretty much saying that Alexei Ramírez will have a roster spot on opening day or am I wrong?
It seems like it
There's been some contention on whether he'll start CF in 2008 or not. But let's face it: it isn't like, as of this moment, he has any real competition to beat out. If he has a successful spring, it wouldn't be a shock to see him start CF.
danks and mccarthy trade update
on the anniversary of the deal. for what it's worth, goldstein at BP has texas' prospects ranked and, since he's still under 25, mccarthy was included in that part of the article. he's ranked in the middle of their 3 star prospects. danks, on the other hand, is ranked in the middle of the sox' 4 star prospects.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7013
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6912
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