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White Sox to lose Fernando Hernandez in Rule 5 Draft

Thecheatsmoking_tiny by The Cheat on in Minors

That headline will come as a surprise to no one around here, but it seems Hernandez is 'building momentum' with scouts as the draft approaches.

Often compared to Twins righthander Matt Guerrier for his command and control rather than pure stuff, Hernandez is also an innings-eater with an above-average curveball.

"This is a guy someone's going to bite on," said one National League scouting director. "He's all guts and showed the ability to shut people down with games on the line. He profiles as more of a middle reliever, but any manager you talk to who's had him will tell you they're not afraid to put him in there in the ninth inning.

"His fastball can be fringy, but he's got a pretty good curveball with a lot of depth to it, and his changeup is probably his second-best pitch."

Cole Armstrong was unavailable for comment.

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Threepeat!
Fabio Castro-Jay Marshall-Fernando Hernandez!

by The Wizard on Dec 3, 2007 7:48 PM CST   0 recs

Marshall
I really didn't mind losing Marshall -- what can he do that Boone Logan can't do?  Sure, you could've probably argued for him over some other guys, but I don't think it's worth the time.

Castro is a different story, as there were a bunch (Reynoso, among others) of guys who should've been bumped for Fabio.  It's certainly frustrating, however, when there are clear cuts that are kept in favor of guys like Castro and Hernandez.

At the very least, we can be happy that Kenny hasn't beat out Omar Minaya for leaving Jesus Flores unprotected.

by CWSKeith on Dec 3, 2007 8:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

agree on all points
it was the 3 names we lost to Rule-V that came to mind

by The Wizard on Dec 3, 2007 8:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I wasn't even too upset about Castro
I knew he was exposed but expected his slight stature to help diminish his value. In the previews leading up to the draft, most seemed to think that he had about a 50/50 chance of being taken at all. Then on the eve of the draft, we got word that he would be taken #1 overall. Which makes it a big miscalculation.

Marshall, I wasn't upset with at all. We all thought it was more important to protect Oneli, who would have been the next man off...

With Hernandez, however, I think it just highlights the organizations inability to recognize what it takes to develop viable bullpen arms.

Wasserman, who we were begging for along with Egbert in May, didn't get the call because of pedestrian stuff until we gave Prinz and Buckvich a chance. And if he didn't succeed as quickly as he did in the last two months, I imagine the Sox would have lost him for nothing.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 3, 2007 9:32 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

dude.
I know we've discussed this before...

but has anything new come to light to explain why Kenny would allow this to happen?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 3, 2007 7:54 PM CST   0 recs

Doesn't make much of any sense...
Our bullpen was hideous last season and we already have two catchers who will be on the 2008 opening day roster.  Andy Gonzalez is pathetic as well.

by SSH2005 on Dec 3, 2007 7:58 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Do we get any compensation if he is signed?
I sure hope so... but this move makes no sense. Our bullpen could really use him. Heck, he might be traded for something.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 3, 2007 8:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I believe it costs 50k
to sign someone from the Rule V draft.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 3, 2007 8:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

that's all? wtf.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 3, 2007 8:42 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

doesn't have major league stuff
listen to the mouthpieces.

by larry on Dec 4, 2007 9:10 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Eh. It doesn't matter.
It's stupid, but both the short and long term effect on the team is minimal.  So is it really that stupid?  Only if it means Andy Gonzalez is back on the team.  He was literally one of the worst players in major league baseball.  Possibly the worst.  
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 3, 2007 8:27 PM CST   0 recs

I think it's pretty stupid
How can anyone say that he couldn't contribute in a big way on our team both this year or next? To let him go for nothing when we have such crap on our 40 man is stupid. He's obviously more valuable than them.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 3, 2007 8:43 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

In a big way?
He'd be a middle reliever at best.  No one's all that sure that he'd be a good one either.  He's been compared to Matt Guerrier, who has a 0.8 and a 2.462 WXRL (expected wins over replacement level, adjusted for quality of opposing hitter) the last two years.     The difference between a competitive and non-competitive team next year is not that.

So it's a stupid, but a very limited one.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 3, 2007 9:19 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

It's a stupid move when you realize...
who is still on our roster.  Smart teams keep guys with upside (Fernando Hernandez) over guys who should never sniff out roster in 2008 (Andy Gonzalez and Cole Armstrong).

And teams that had an absolutely horrible bullpen the previous season should not be dumping any relievers with possible upside.

by SSH2005 on Dec 3, 2007 9:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

What if something happens to Linebrink...
or Jenks? He could prove to have a pivotable role on our team. If not this year then maybe next. and Guerrier was pretty damn solid.

I agree with SSH here. For a team that had an awful bullpen last year and trying to win a championship next year... they need to repair all the holes they can.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 3, 2007 9:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I doubt this guy even pans out...
but when your bullpen sucks balls, common sense says to keep your relievers that have any upside whatsoever instead of a crappy infielder and a fourth catcher.

by SSH2005 on Dec 3, 2007 9:37 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

It speaks to the organizations
ability (or inability) to recognize how to build a successful bullpen. Hernandez carries the same skills Matt Guerrier, and, say, a David Riske, who just got 3/$12+M.

Being able to develop and identify those cheap arms which can fill into the back/middle of a bullpen is a large part of the reason the Twins are as competitive as they've been year-in-year-out since 2001.

There's no reason to give multi-million dollar multiple-year deals to middle reliever free agents when other options exist, with proper scouting and development, which should provide the same run prevention at 1/10th the cost.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 3, 2007 9:41 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Good point...
makes no sense to not have someone in your bullpen who can do the same job as a $3-4 million type for almost nothing.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 3, 2007 9:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Oh, granted. The Linebrink signing
underlines specifically our inability to figure that out.  We let the market decide for us and odds are we'll be burned.  Hopefully we learn this lesson and commission a study.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 3, 2007 11:29 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

id rather
spend 19 mil on an average reliever than 126 mil on a below average starter

by Jbasic89 on Dec 3, 2007 11:36 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

F'real.
Kenny does have part of this down.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 3, 2007 11:51 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

He was in terms of OPS+.
At least for somebody who received as much playing time as he did.  
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 3, 2007 8:44 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Predict the next moves to come...
A Rowand signing and a Crede for a reliever trade?

What else would we need then?  Another starter?

by SSH2005 on Dec 3, 2007 9:18 PM CST   0 recs

something big
will still happen. i doubt that carlos quentin, while i believe it was a great trade, will be the biggest surprise we see. please

i dont see how rowand could possibly help our team. we would lose $15mm and another draft pick for one of the more overrated players in baseball. everyone here knows damn well that rowand is not a gold glove center fielder.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 3, 2007 9:23 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Sure, but Rowand's bat was filthy last season...
and his career line is actually better than Torii Hunter's.  The problem is that he could just as easily post a .750 OPS as he could an .850 OPS. There doesn't seem to be much consistency to Rowand's offensive production from year to year.  He's had about three good seasons and three bad seasons.

I would much rather sign Andruw Jones but the Boras factor makes that unlikely.  And now that Kenny made a great trade for a dirt-cheap starting LF'er and saved a bunch of money, we may as well throw some money at a top free agent CF'er.  If we trade Crede and manage to dump Uribe's contract, that would free up around $9.5 million dollars.  And if we aren't going to get Jones and lose Fukudome to the Padres or Cubs, I would much rather have Rowand than Cameron or Crisp.

I know Rowand could easily be a bust in 2008 and beyond but he could also be pretty good.  I realize that he isn't a stud but the Rowand-hate seems pretty crazy around here.  Just remember that a couple offseasons ago, many people thought that Brian Anderson would more than replace Aaron Rowand.  Well, that sure didn't work out.

by SSH2005 on Dec 3, 2007 9:35 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

i think the big question is
what we do with carlos quentin
do we keep him and start him in left field?
or do we use him in a trade?
the big problem is that we still do not have a sure leadoff hitter and now with quentin it leaves one less position to fill that role.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 3, 2007 9:43 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

It's been said before, but I'll say it again...
Lead off hitter is not a position. Put a person with a high OBP at the top of the order and let Thome and Konerko knock him in. End of story.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 3, 2007 9:54 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

tell that
to ozzie guillen

by Jbasic89 on Dec 3, 2007 9:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Here's what Kenny can say
Lead-off Orlando Cabrera.  He's already been pegged as the 'bestest two-hole hitter in the world', so what's going to hurt moving him down one for spot.

As far as who hits number two...  against lefties there's multiple options, starting with Quentin or Fields.  Against righties...  if they're really not willing to move everyone up a spot (or say Dye to the two hole), you can go with Richar.  In the end it's not going to make a huge difference.  If Kenny gets it across to Ozzie that the "leadoff hitter" is only the leadoff hitter once a game, we'll all be better off and won't have to acquire a CFer with 'leadoff skillz.'

by CWSKeith on Dec 3, 2007 10:08 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Rowand-hate?
Rowand is one of my favorite ballplayers. I think most people here just think the Sox would be paying $13M a year for a .750 OPS and diminishing defense in CF. Although, who knows -- he could go off and some very good years.

While I don't want the Sox to shell out a 5 year deal or pay Rowand $13M a year, he would be an upgrade in CF over Owens(?). I think a lot of people underestimate just how pathetic the offensive production in CF/SS/LF was last season. Improving those positions to close to league average would be a big deal I think.

 

by hitlesswonder on Dec 3, 2007 9:43 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Forgive my ignorance
but when's the deadline to tender Crede a contract?

by CWSKeith on Dec 3, 2007 10:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Used to be December 20th
they might have moved the deadline up a week though with the new CBA...
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 3, 2007 10:31 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Kenny feels the same way as us...
Although Williams stopped short of offering up one of his own players as an added bonus to finish off a potential trade for Boston or the Yankees involving Johan Santana, the White Sox general manager certainly wouldn't be sad to see the ace left-hander leave the AL Central.

"I will pick his [rear end] up at the airport and drive him to what I hope is a National League team," said Williams, with a wry smile, concerning one of the White Sox chief tormentors.

by SSH2005 on Dec 3, 2007 11:30 PM CST   0 recs

Mets and Bedard
Who are the Mets giving up, exactly?  I'm not saying I want the Sox to go 'balls-out' for Bedard, but their farm system doesn't seem a whole helluva lot stronger than ours.  Pelfrey and Humber are probably the two most overrated pitching propsects I can think of.  Pelfrey struggled at AAA this season with an ERA above 4.00 and a K/9 below 7.  He also got torched in his limited big-league innings.  Moreover, most objective scouting reports say he struggles to even throw a second pitch, much less a third pitch that would certainly be needed if he wants to be anything more than a reliever.  Humber wasn't a whole better than Pelfrey this year, if at all.

Fernando Martinez would have to headline the package, right?  Something like Martinez, Guerra and one (or two) of Gomez/Pelfrey/Humber?

by CWSKeith on Dec 4, 2007 1:15 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Fun with hyperbole
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-071203whispers,1,1445568.story?c oll=cs-whitesox-headlines
Assuming Josh Fields would go to Florida in return for Cabrera, the Sox still have Joe Crede, who will demand a good return if his surgically repaired back is healthy. And no team needs two All-Star-type third basemen.
Using Gonzales' guidlines, Wiz and I are two Pulitzer-type bloggers.
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 4, 2007 12:02 AM CST   0 recs

Maybe if you think about it in football terms...
You know, if you have two All-Star third basemen, you really don't have an All-Star third baseman?
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 4, 2007 1:12 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Chris Burke
what are your guys thoughts on a possible chris burke deal?  I know he was a first round draft choice a few years back and kind of stumbled with the Astros.  I also know he can play both 2B and CF.  It wouldnt be a bad gamble to try to acquire him for someone like Masset or Aardsma, maybe even macdougal.  Phillips mentioned that it was an Unnamed reliever being discussed in the deal.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 7:47 AM CST   0 recs

I would take him...
but I only want him as a utility guy or possible backup 2B in case Richar falters.

by SSH2005 on Dec 4, 2007 7:50 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

exactly
i think it would be a smart move to get him for that super utility role, and pair him with a hopefully healthy pablo ozuna and you have two guys who can play both IF and OF on your bench.  Isnt Aardsma out of options if he doesnt make the big league roster anyways?  a return to the NL could help him out, especially the weak NL central.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 7:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Royals get Guillen (not Ozzie)
3 years, $36MM.

Damn....HGH DOES pay.

2008 - Sox version of The Battle of the Bulge: The Final Stand

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2007 8:28 AM CST   0 recs

6 Billion dollars
and only 43% going to the players. That means there is an incredible amount of cash out there. This is a new financial era, resulting in not only increased yearly salaries, but also increased years. By the time this offseason is done JD's and Buerhle's extensions will look like bargains and Linebrink's contract will be basically market rate.

3/36 for Guillen?! JD already looks like a bargain. If he's getting 3/36, Rowand's gonna get 5/75. Silva? 4/44 if not 4/48. Buckle up fellas it's gonna be a wild ride.

by bhoov on Dec 4, 2007 10:04 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

End this ridiculousness with Boras.
Have Hahn sit down and talk. Offer Jones 2 years / $36 million + incentives (not sure why you need incentives getting paid $36 million, but that's the new landscape).

Also, I have a feeling Crede will dump Boras. He belongs on the South Side.

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2007 8:28 AM CST   0 recs

No, he doesn't...
Crede is a ~.750 OPS third baseman with a good glove.  He isn't worth a big long-term deal when we have Fields around.  And he isn't ditching Boras.  Crede hasn't stuck with him this long for no reason at all.

by SSH2005 on Dec 4, 2007 8:36 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

agreed
crede needs to be dealt.  fields is much cheaper and just as good, if not better overall.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 8:38 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Ask the pitching staff
who they want playing 3rd. You undervalue his defense. And IF IF IF his back is OK, his OPS will be better than ~.750.

To each his own.

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2007 8:50 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

cmon
we were spoiled with crede defensively.  he was the best defensive 3rd baseman in the bigs, i dont care about golden gloves either.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 9:47 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

You could argue that Fields is a poor...
defensive third baseman, but he is a third baseman nonetheless.

by SSH2005 on Dec 4, 2007 9:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Ask the pitching staff
who they want playing 3rd.

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2007 9:49 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Crede is a way bigger
risk than Fields right now.  Who knows how effective he will be after back surgery?  I'd rather take my chances with the younger, more healthy version and take the fielding gaffes on defense in stride.

by BoKnows on Dec 4, 2007 10:07 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

i'm going with
a guy who will provide runs, whether offense or defense, and will actually be out there everyday. guess which player projects to do both better than crede next year? and for 1/10th of the cost. further, quite frankly, when i hear sox players talk about who they want or think should be on the team, i don't really care about their opinion.

by larry on Dec 4, 2007 9:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Assuming Crede is healthy,
granted a big IF, I'll take Crede. I love Fields, but Crede is the man when he's healthy.

If he's not healthy, totally different story.

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2007 10:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

and you want to gamble on that?
he's gone either now or next year. at least get something for him. time to move on.

by larry on Dec 4, 2007 10:04 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Setting my previous snarky post aside
I agree. Fields did enough at the plate that he shouldn't be on the bench or in AAA. I know he's considered the worst defensive 3B in the bigs outside of Braun, but he didn't look completely unathletic. He's young enough that it's possible he'll improve. Giving him another shot at 3B is fine. just find someone to get him to work on lateral movement drills.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 10:17 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

fine
you want to keep crede, then you HAVE to sign him to a long term deal, which means giving him 10 mil a year at least, then you HAVE to trade fields...but who are you going to trade fields for??? it doesnt make any sense to keep crede.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 9:55 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

IMO, Konerko to be traded.
Fields moves to 1st base.

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2007 10:03 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

not bad
konerko is our best trading chip now IMO, but i dont see what we get in return for him that helps us win the world series this year.... kenny is only focused on this year.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 10:07 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

So, ambulance chaser,
what do you think of the scenario proposed above re: trading Paulie and moving Fields to 1B?  Seems like you like payroll result (depending upon who we get).
2008 - Sox version of The Battle of the Bulge: The Final Stand

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2007 10:28 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

no, i don't like the payroll result
i was answering his question. moving fields to first is stupid. jermaine dye should move to first if it opens up. if you've opened up payroll, you should then sign an outfielder.

by larry on Dec 4, 2007 10:32 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

totally agree here
Dye should move to first in that scenario. Should being the key....
"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Dec 4, 2007 10:36 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Which outfielder?
Fukudome?

And that doesn't solve the Crede-Fields situation.

I honestly don't know what Ken Williams will do here.  I'd just dump Crede, but I fear that Williams will deal Fields.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 4, 2007 10:39 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I don't think the organization
is really fond of Crede. With him witholding surgery for so long and constantly rehabbing (if it was Joe's decision and not the club's) and maybe having to deal with Boras. Those are two reasons I can think of them wanting to deal him instead of Fields.

I think KW must realize he can get similar production with Fields and save lots of money.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 4, 2007 10:42 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Possibly...
but Crede's trade value is very, very low right now, while Fields's value is pretty high, and I think Williams has got to realise that.  

The fact that Crede's still on the roster makes me wonder what Ken Williams is going to do.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 4, 2007 10:46 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

you can stop wondering
crede is gone, one way or another. fields isn't. this isn't a particularly hard puzzle to piece together.

by larry on Dec 4, 2007 10:47 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

we all know the facts surrounding this one
and read what KW (and his mouthpiece) had to say about "solving" this:
Crede's contributions to the White Sox 2005 World Series championship season, and his development within the system as a whole, would seem to make this move difficult. But from Williams' point of view, the decision to be unveiled in the future was not very hard to make at all.

"In terms of sitting back and looking at it from a logical, where are we know, where are we headed kind of perspective," explained Williams, who also mentioned Crede was recently brought into Chicago to have the White Sox doctors lay eyes on him and that he was definitely progressing. "From a personal standpoint, it's a little more difficult, but they all are.

"I get very close to our players and no matter which direction you turn, you're affecting someone's livelihood, you're affecting their careers and life, and that's never sat well with me. That's why we have a lot of conversations before we do things. We don't have to rush into anything. We'll take our time."

i can't imagine a more clear "come and get him - he gone" quote.

by larry on Dec 4, 2007 11:00 AM CST to parent up