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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Kenny's rationale

Kenny says "the return offers were not enticing enough," on not making any trades besides Mack:

"We've never been shy in making a deal here and improving the ballclub. When we searched around for the type of deal that would do that, nothing effective enough was out there."
on Dye:
"What we were looking for as far as Jermaine was immediate help or something better in prospects than the draft picks we would get [if Dye leaves as a free agent after the season]. This isn't a one-day affair for us. This is a process we've been working on for weeks. We weren't going to just make up a deal for change's sake. There wasn't one that made sense for us, so that's why it didn't come about. The one thing we tried to do in this room is put together championship pieces as we move forward. That means going out and asking about players like we were still one game out."
*****

Coop on Jose:

The big hurdle facing Cooper is making sure Contreras' off-the-field distractions are not the reasons for his landslide on the field. Contreras (5-14) and his wife are going through a divorce, and he hasn't seemed right since that news hit him at the start of the season.

"I'm not going to pawn it off on a personal problem," Cooper said. "Everyone has got 'em. Am I going to sit here and downplay it? No, divorce is a serious thing in anyone's life. It happens to a lot of people, though. Some people handle things better than others. I do know that Jose is an emotional guy. There has to be something there that affects his game, but this might be his sanctum, the place he can come and get away from it. That's not the reason he's pitching bad, and he would say the same thing. ... The missing links right now from when he was really good in that championship run. No. 1 is velocity, second is command and third is confidence. Yeah, that's a lot."

*****

In other news,

  • Dye and the Sox are discussing an extension. Cowley's "sources" say money isn't the sticking pooint; it's years. Dye wants three while the Sox want one, maybe two.
  • Ozzie says he will discuss pulling Contreras from the starting rotation with Kenny and Coop.
  • AA pitcher Kris Honel announced his retirement from baseball.
  • The Bard's room looks on why Kenny should've traded Garland.
  • Jim doesn't blame Kenny for not taking Boston's bait.

And look inside for Ozzie's 2007 diagnosis.

Star-divide

Ozzie's 2007 diagnosis: No speed:

"We're missing that badly. A lot of people say there's an American League style and a National League style. No, there's a baseball style. Every time we execute well, when we hit-and-run, bunt, squeeze, we win games. I'm not the type of manager who likes to sit down and wait for three-run homers. ... Sometimes we need three hits to score Paul [Konerko] or [Jim] Thome or A. J. [Pierzynski]. We need to help those guys in the middle of the lineup [be] better too, because when you see guys on base running around, they're going to see more fastballs. This year we are poor at executing the hit-and-run [and] early in the season we didn't have many guys on base and when we did it was the big boys. "

Greg Walker agrees:

"Every American League team needs some big boys in the middle of lineup. If you don't have that, you're hurting. What makes our team better some years than others is how we played small ball. We thought at the start of this year, with Pods and Erstad at the top of the lineup, we had solved that problem. But they didn't stay healthy this year. And the bottom of the order is not really built for small ball either. Uribe is not your classic small ball hitter, obviously."
"When you have speed on the basepaths, you also have speed and more range on the field and that makes the defense better. And when you have good defense, that makes the pitching staff better. We're missing that, guys going out and getting balls [on defense]. Now we have Owens and Podsednik and we cover more territory. And now with Richar at second, he has a little more range [than Iguchi]. All those little things help you win games and people don't realize that."

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What does this mean?
"The one thing we tried to do in this room is put together championship pieces as we move forward. That means going out and asking about players like we were still one game out."

I can't for the life of me fathom what Williams is talking about here.  Does he mean he wants to acquire still more veterans?  If so, why dump Iguchi and Mackowiak for nothing?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 1:34 PM CDT reply actions  

why would that only mean veterans
is it impossible for younger players to be championship pieces? i guess someone should have mentioned that to the florida marlins in 2003.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's what I'm asking.
What does it mean when he says he wants to make moves as if he's "only one game out"?  If the Sox were only one game out, he wouldn't be looking to move Dye at all.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

you're reading waaaaaay too much into this, jer
you're asking for logical flow from a quote plucked from a longer interview that was the tenth interview KW gave after not sleeping for a week.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Anybody want to weigh in....
On SS possibilities for '08?

Eckstein, Vizquel, Clayton, Tomohiro Nioka, Alex Gonzalez.....

by stanchar on Aug 1, 2007 1:51 PM CDT reply actions  

Certainly not...
Vizquel or Clayton.

I've never heard of Nioka, but I have a hard time getting excited about Eckstein or Gonzalez.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Problem is...
that none of those other guys look good, either.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Make a trade for a SS...
even if Garland is the guy moving in the trade.  The Braves were supposedly willing to give up Yunel Escobar and Jo-Jo Reyes for Bronson Arroyo.  See what a SS prospect like Escobar will cost in the offseason.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yunel Escobar is overratted
What do you like about him so much?
I'm a disgruntled Whitesox fan and I can't spell

by chisox on Aug 1, 2007 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I keep talking about this guy
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/stats/player.php?id=476704

See the OBP?

See the extra base-hits?

He only has 13 errors

It's too bad he wasn't one the Whitesox radar.  SIGH! =(

I'm a disgruntled Whitesox fan and I can't spell

by chisox on Aug 1, 2007 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure, I would rather have Jed Lowrie...
but he looks pretty much untouchable.  The Red Sox aren't giving him up with Lugo looking like a buster and Epstein doesn't seem to want to trade any of his top prospects.  Meanwhile, the Braves were said to be interested in acquiring a starting pitcher and were willing to give up Escobar in a deal for Arroyo because they already have Renteria at SS, who is having a sick season.

In other words...  Escobar can be had, Lowrie cannot.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...
Maybe it's his .294/.367/.411/.778 line in the minors and the fact that he is putting up a similar line in the majors (.314/.358/.400/.758), albeit in only 140 AB's.  He would be a massive upgrade at our SS position.  What the heck is not to like?

So...  why do you think that Escobar is overrated?

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well
1.He's 6-2 200 but doesn't have any power, not even gap power.  2. He isn't fast. 3 He going to be 25 soon no wonder he's been putting up OK numbers.  

Everybody overrates him, even Atlanta.  I can easily go through the minors a pick out 10 SS from High A ball to AAA that have more potential than him.

I'm a disgruntled Whitesox fan and I can't spell

by chisox on Aug 1, 2007 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Since when does a SS need to have power?
A SS needs to have a good glove and be able to hit a bit.  Escobar can hit well and put up a good OBP.

And I'd like to see that list.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Escobar looks pretty fast to me...
Definitely faster than who we have at SS.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

But Uribe as way more power
When Uribe had his head out of his ass in previous years he helped the team emmecly.  Yunel Escobar to me will be a player who puts up very hollow numbers like a David Eckstein. Yuck!

Orlando Cabrera is the perfect example of the type of SS I would want if he isn't going to hit for HR power.  Orlando hits for gap power and thus his allot of doubles.  That's havoc at the top of any lineup hitting behind a speedster. I absolutely love Orlando game.  The Angels knew exactly what the where getting.  

I'm a disgruntled Whitesox fan and I can't spell

by chisox on Aug 1, 2007 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Blasphemy!
He was the World Series MVP!
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I Know!
What I should have said is. He doesn't put up numbers, he just wins (baby).

by jeeves on Aug 2, 2007 5:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

lots of SS's have power
H. Ramirez, Reyes, Tejada, Hardy, Garciaparra (when he was healthy), Ripken, Jr., I mean, want me to go continue?

I think the trend now is power at SS. Not having power at SS just means you need to find some elsewhere in your lineup. IF you're having to go out and look for power from your middle infield, then you've got some problems elsewhere you need to address first.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

are you sure?
The average AL ss in 2007 is slugging .387.
Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Aug 1, 2007 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

the guys I listed
aside from tejada and ripken (who is retired) are all NL SS's.

What's Uribe slugging? :)

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also...
don't forget about Jimmy Rollins, Carlos Guillen, Troy Tulowitzki, Alex Gonzalez... even Edgar Renteria has some pop. Khalil Greene...

What do most of these guys have in common? They are in the NL.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know...
I was just looking at those same stats... and I noticed that CWS's SS is next to last in Runs scored in MLB, behind only, that's right you guessed it, HOU's Adam Everett.

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

The SLG is about 30 points higher for NL teams. But look at the group of young SS's that have come up in the past couple years that are full of power.

I think SS's are getting stronger, or teams are looking specifically for some pop at SS.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Everett is also the best defender
in the major leagues.  So that's not the worst thing in the world.

by colintj on Aug 2, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Vizquel is outta the picture
But the Eck might be in the equation.

Who is Nioka?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kenny - what happened after this?
Here is my question - what changed?

"Tired of watching this..."

White Sox baseball, let the kids learn to play

by Brush Back on Aug 1, 2007 1:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Podsednik and Erstad...
came back.  They'll grind the team to victory!

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

re
"When we searched around for the type of deal that would do that, nothing effective enough was out there."

"We weren't going to just make up a deal for change's sake. There wasn't one that made sense for us, so that's why it didn't come about."

by The Wizard on Aug 1, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

he realized there was nothing to do except
wait until the offseason. and re-sign MB, of course.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thankfully he did resign MB
(Thanks again Mark!)
White Sox baseball, let the kids learn to play

by Brush Back on Aug 1, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

What we need
Partially because of Ozzie's fetish for speed I believe our primary need is a speedy but good CF. That would prevent us from having some popgun corner outfielder and allow us to pick a bat for LF. It would also prevent us from suffering through the specter of Jerry Owens.

Ichiro of course would have been perfect here. My propositon is acquire Chone Figgins. The Angels have Gary Matthews in CF and Brandon Wood for 3b next year. Figgins is not as good as he's playing this year, but he could easily post a .750 OPS while stealing bases at a valuable percent (a concept that is difficult for us to comprehend I know) and providing good defense. He's also reasonably cheap.

Then let JD go, get the picks, and pick up a corner OF with some pop (Fukodome?, Jenkins, etc.). Work out 3B and RF between Crede, Fields and Sweeney.

by bhoov on Aug 1, 2007 2:14 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't think so
"Chone Figgins: 1/14/06: Agreed to terms to a 3-year contract, avoiding arbitration. He'll be eligible for free agency following the 2009 season."

from mlb4u.com

by The Wizard on Aug 1, 2007 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

right.
We's have to trade for him. But he should be available given the Angel's previously mentioned options.

by bhoov on Aug 1, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you kidding?!?!?
Give Chone Figgins to Ozzie?  That's like giving an alcoholic a bottle of bourbon.

He'll probably play him at catcher.

by ChicagoPete on Aug 1, 2007 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's simply outstanding.
I just called a friend and actually read him your comment.

by palehose67 on Aug 1, 2007 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I find hilarious
is this whole Erstad thing.  

WTF are they trying to prove?  It's obvious to everyone that they made a huge mistake bringing him in here, but they propping his corpse up out there.  

What's the point of giving this stooge one more plate appearance.  I just don't get it.

by ChicagoPete on Aug 1, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Timely article
according to BP Chone Figgins is the second best baserunner (considering all elements) in baseball. Sizemore is number 1 and brian Roberts is number 3. Not surprisingly Thome is the 4th worst. Surprised Paulie didn't make the bottom ten.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=463

by bhoov on Aug 1, 2007 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

A 9/40 BB/K ratio isn't that sexy
but the rest looks good. I guess.

Can he catch a ball and throw it? Yeah? Sure, put him at SS.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right. Speed makes things happen.
Just look at Podsednik. Jerry Owens. Pablo Oz... oh... wait.

Speed kills :)

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

speed eliminates competition!
ok, we have as few more guys: c.j. retheford, christian marrerro, jim gallagher. and joe persichina

and don't forget jose martinez at bristol

but none of these guys are as sexy as '5 SBs' sanchez!

by The Wizard on Aug 1, 2007 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was just lookin at Martinez earlier
I think he was 19 yr old Centerfielder
Xbox live: Marco es DRUNK

by marco054 on Aug 1, 2007 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

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