How old is Alexei Ramirez?

by The Cheat on Sep 19, 2007 12:05 AM CDT in White Sox News

Does it matter? Even if you add three years to each of his reported birthdays -- Yes, he's got two of them -- he'll still be younger than any of the other free agents available this spring. His age shouldn't change any team's scouting report or view of his major league viability.

At his reported age of 26, he's nearly at his projected peak as a ballplayer. If he's not ready to play in the big leagues now, chances are, he never will. He's already too old to be stashed away in the minors. So the question facing the White Sox, and the rest of the teams in baseball for that matter, is, do you feel Alexei Ramirez can make your '08 team a better club? And how much are you willing to spend to that end?

For those of you who are still confused by those first two paragraphs: Alexei Ramirez is a Cuban defector who could be available as a free agent (SS/2B/CF) this off-season.

Video after the jump

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I like Cubans

They've got colorful names that all seem to start with the letter "Y" and sound like they belong to a guy wearing an ushanka and drinking some homemade vodka straight from the bottle. Yulieski, Yunkiesky, Yunel, Yoslan, Yohannis.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Sep 19, 2007 12:08 AM CDT reply actions

Can he play the timbales?

Does he like salsa or merengue? These are important questions.

So say he's 30 y/o, 'cause he probably is. He'll help Count get over his divorce and will probably be better than anyone else we are willing to sign out there. Do we wait for him to sign with the Spanks, bomb like Contreras, then pick him up cheaply? I don't think we have the luxury of time.

I'd be amenable to signing him if he passes the requisite physical and personal interview ("Are you, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?").

Embrace the carp(e) diem.

by winningugly on Sep 19, 2007 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about

swing mechanics, but my initial reaction is that he swings like JD.

Whatever the case, as long as we can figure out his actual birth date, this could be a great way to get some younger talent right quick. If we assume that the Sox are going to be spending anyway, I think this is as good a place as any. We need both a SS and a CF, so either position works very well.

CHOO!! CHOO!!

by colintj on Sep 19, 2007 3:41 AM CDT reply actions

Ballpark,

what will Alexei Ramirez sign for?

You reap what you sow.

by ballyb on Sep 19, 2007 8:07 AM CDT reply actions

That depends...

on whether he's coming into the market as a SS or a CFer. As we've discussed, most of the bigger market teams appear to be pretty set in CF. Taking a quick look at the big market team's current SS situations...

Jeter ain't going anywhere in New York in the next couple years.
Boston has over $30 million invested in Lugo and Lowrie behind him (although he might not stay at SS). Since I doubt any team would take Lugo without Boston eating a huge chunk of his contract, I can't see them going after a SS.
The Angels have Cabrera and a slew of other young guys who at one time or another have played SS (Izturis, Aybar, Wood).
The Mets have Reyes.

The Cubs could be potential suitors, however. Toronto invested a little into McDonald but might want a real player there.

I really want to see how the market plays out this winter. I strongly doubt that guys like Hunter, Jones and Rowand are going to get the numbers being tossed around (6/$100) -- I see this offseason being the one where the market corrects itself. We shall see...

by CWSKeith on Sep 19, 2007 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Ballpark range though

for dees keed?

3 years at $3 mil per.,$ 5 mil per, $7.5 mil per???

You reap what you sow.

by ballyb on Sep 19, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions

i've probably seen him play

more than anyone else on here and i wouldn't want to make a prediction based on such a small sample size; teams would (hopefully) have more scouting/video on him. i would bet that it would be a bit higher than the range you posit simply because i'd say he's better than eckstein and eckstein is going to get more than that. how much more is anyone's guess right now. i'm sure we'll start hearing numbers soon.

i think the $7.5-$8.5MM range might be a good place to put it right now based on incomplete info.

White Sox Baseball: Assume the Position.

by larry on Sep 19, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions

Thanks, Larry.

You reap what you sow.

by ballyb on Sep 19, 2007 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions

From the BA Blog link

[Ramirez] hit .335 with a .574 slugging percentage this season for Pinar del Rio.

That looks impressive, but I need some context -- what kind of league is he playing in? Is it like the PCL, where hitting .300 is barely average or is it like the Dominican Leagues that Cheat mentioned where a .275 hitter is a star? Anybody know?

by CWSKeith on Sep 19, 2007 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions

BP dude says short season A ball

mlbtraderumors.com:

If Ramirez is truly capable, his agent should position him as a shortstop. Sight unseen the guy's still a contender for the best one available. The competition among free agents would be David Eckstein, Cesar Izturis, Juan Uribe, and Omar Vizquel.

Not so fast though. We've seen some position players come over from Cuba in the past, namely Yuniesky Betancourt and Kendry Morales. Betancourt has been OK with the stick, Morales a disappointment. When trying to translate back in '05, Baseball Prospectus's Clay Davenport equated Cuban baseball with short-season A ball over here.

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions

Thanks wiz

much thanks.

by CWSKeith on Sep 19, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions

i think

you have to look at his performance in international competition, like the WBC or pan-am. even though those are smaller sample sizes, the cuban league just isn't going to help you much. signing this guy is obviously going to be guesswork and it's a risk. you're also going to see a balance between a nice payday for this guy while also leaving open the possibility of even more bank down the line. that's why a 2 or 3 year deal makes sense.

if i were negotiating this, i'd open with 2/$13MM and go from there, probably with a ceiling of 3/$24MM. but i want more info before i'd start throwing out numbers.

White Sox Baseball: Assume the Position.

by larry on Sep 19, 2007 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions

CF or SS? What's your guess?

You reap what you sow.

by ballyb on Sep 19, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions

the point made

about it being a better idea to market him as a SS makes sense. if i were a team, though, i wouldn't care. i'd play him wherever the need was. i've only see him play the outfield (center and right) and i thought he was fine out there. he most recently played 2B in the pan-am games so i don't know how extensive his experience is at SS in the cuban leagues.

White Sox Baseball: Assume the Position.

by larry on Sep 19, 2007 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions

he seems to like to play short

Interview to Alexei Ramirez (Google Translation)

let the translation link load for 5 seconds...
original

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2007 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions

indeed

How you feel in the gardens?
"I feel well, in fact I dominate the three, like the picture, but what fascinates to me is short stop. It is that it pulls ahead to me, as they bat much by that zone I feel more in movement".

White Sox Baseball: Assume the Position.

by larry on Sep 19, 2007 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions

garden must be the outfield

now, what the hell is "the picture"?

any spanish speakers here? what does "el cuadro" translate to?

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2007 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions

from past experience

I thought "garden" referred to lady parts ;)

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Sep 19, 2007 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions

some numbers

baseball-fever/forum:

Here's some hard data from Cuba on this page:

seasons 6
AB 2115
R 385
H 702
2B 119
3B 21
HR 67
avg .332
obp* .394
slg .503
sb 38
cs 29
bb 216
so 242

def inn 4553.2
po 1154
a 996
e 75
% .966
dp 264

*=calculated by (h + bb)/(ab + bb)

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2007 1:50 PM CDT reply actions

Hmm...

.332/.394/.503. What is that translated -- .270/.310/.425? Is that fair? If he can manage to play an average defensive SS -- he'd be a slightly better version of Jack Wilson who is, in his own right, a useful player (albeit overpaid).

Speaking of Wilson, he's quietly put up an amazing second half -- .357/.408/.573. He's got his OPS+ up to 104 now. There goes my bad-contract-for-bad-contract proposal in Contreras for Wilson.

by CWSKeith on Sep 19, 2007 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions

What are his stats this year?

Because if he's 24 and he's played 6 years that means he was 18 when he started. Given that, probably only his last three years are relevant.

Otherwise i'm with CWS, those stats in the cuban league don't impress me at all. In fact, with those stats a .735 MLB OPS is probably generous. If he's gonna jump straight to the big leagues he better be putting up at least a > 1.000 OPS in an A ball equivalent league.

by bhoov on Sep 19, 2007 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions

re

these stats probably came from here
I see that they may not include this season

the baseball america article says: "He hit .335 with a .574 slugging percentage this season for Pinar del Rio."

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2007 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions

he's probably pretty darn close

to 1.000 OPS this year, based on those career numbers. at any rate, i think that analysis fits in with what my impression of him was: a bit better than david eckstein. i.e., a league average player. i'd give $7.5-$8.5MM for that at SS. anxious to hear what others with more knowledge have to say about him.

White Sox Baseball: Assume the Position.

by larry on Sep 19, 2007 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions

height-weight

granma.cu:

24 years. 78kg. 1.86m, gardener. 2do year of Physical Culture, Pine of the River, Olympic and world-wide champion

google says that's 6-1, 190 pounds

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2007 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions

who knows

one click away it said Yulieski Gourriel was "27 years" but I recall him being 21-22 in the WBC.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Sep 19, 2007 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions

re: video clip

I hope that was a series walkoff; otherwise I see a lot of HBP...

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2007 5:45 PM CDT reply actions

I can't tell what it says on the graphic

but I saw somebody else say that was a first-inning shot... If so, Cuban baseball is entertaining.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Sep 19, 2007 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions

if you read the BP article

referenced by wiz above, you'll see that the cuban league has the highest level of offense of all north american leagues. also the highest level of HBP apparently.

White Sox Baseball: Assume the Position.

by larry on Sep 19, 2007 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Macho league

It stands to reason if you hit a tater you or a teammate is going down the next pitch. Love that culture - baseball the way it was meant to be played. Fiercely.

Embrace the carp(e) diem.

by winningugly on Sep 19, 2007 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions