And now batting leadoff for the Chicago White Sox ...

by The Wizard on Jan 28, 2008 1:14 PM CST in Quotes

Maybe Ozzie isn't as crazy as I thought. Nahhh, it's probably the winter weather:

Guillen's focus will be on finding a leadoff hitter. Center fielder Jerry Owens seems to be general manager Ken Williams' favorite. Guillen seems to prefer [Orlando] Cabrera. Neither are proven in the top spot. Will this be Guillen's biggest headache?

"Yeah," he said without hesitation. "If Jerry Owens plays the way we think he can play ... I like the way he played last year.

Cabrera can be a leadoff hitter. Believe me, I want my leadoff hitter to get on base. I don't want a leadoff hitter to steal bases. The only way you are going to steal bases is if you are there. If you get on base, you have Thome, [Paul] Konerko and [Jermaine] Dye hitting behind you. We should score a lot of runs, but we have to get on base first."

Cough, cough... ***** In other news,

Jim on SoxFest, and the Sox speed without speed approach.
DFA'd Sox reliever David Aardsma was traded to the Red Sox for minor-league relievers Willy Mota and Miguel Socolovich. Here's the press release. Mota and Soco are expected to go to Class-A.
Scott Merkin on Brian Anderson: "I heard three teams from the National League have some interest."
Dino-news: The Seattle Mariners MLB.com reporter says "The White Sox and Angels have expressed interest in the veteran slugger [Carl Everett], but he remains unsigned." Everett currently is on the roster of the Long Island Ducks of the Atlantic League of Professional Baseball. Seems Kenny can't let go!
The latest on the Erik Bedard to Seattle, Adam Jones to Baltimore trade.
Mike Pindelski on 2008 Paulie.
THT's John Walsh looks at Tango's 'Fan Scouting report'. And Tango's Sabermetric Archive Links (like BaseBoogle (aka Baseball via Google) that searches only Baseball Analytic sites).

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Comments

Carlos Quentin...

would be a nice leadoff hitter, I think.

It's really too bad that Nick Swisher is a terrible center fielder. Things would be a lot easier if he could handle the position.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 1:17 PM CST reply actions

and it would be great if thome could play 2B

by larry on Jan 28, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions

That would be awesome.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions

I'd like to

see it, regardless.

by palehose67 on Jan 28, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions

You'd like to see...

Thome at second?

That would be entertaining, I agree.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions

I can't get the image

out of my mind now. David Ortiz at shortstop would be good too.

by palehose67 on Jan 28, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions

ugh

If the White Sox are serious this season, then they can't waste time with Owens at leadoff...unless he can repeat his September performance.
.340 BA / .396 OBP

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Jan 28, 2008 1:28 PM CST reply actions

call me crazy

but i doubt jerry owens ever puts up a .340/.396 OBP over a season.....
.id be plenty happy with a .270/ .340 OBP from JO.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 28, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions

You are quite sane, Deac

Wonder why Oz didn't mention Swish hitting behind Owens (only our fossilized guys)? Is it because he is supposed to sacrifice himself for the team via bunts/hit'n runs/HBP's? Perhaps he will not be allowed to swing from his heels, ever.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions

If Swisher is the #2 hitter...

I fully expect him to be bunting and hitting-and-running. They did it with Josh Fields, who might be the least suited guy in the majors for that.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions

Donde estas Cabrera at #2?

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions

Your really doubt....

...he will hit .340/.396??? You're crazy!

If that happens, I am afraid h*ll will freeze over and Uribe will fit into size 31 pants.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 28, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions

During the town hall,

I asked Ozzie if he could be flexible enough to implement a non-traditional, non-prototypic lead-off hitter....he went on and on for about two minutes, basicaaly saying he's after someone who gets on base....when I said I interpreted that as a 'yes,' he never really confirmed my interpretation, and Kenny then jumped in and said "those discussions are happening," or something like that. I had specifically mentioned both Swisher and Quentin as examples of what I meant.
I was also the guy on Sunday who asked about the minor league, Shafer stuff. As Gonzalez reported, he was evasive mostly, but, at the end, hung him out to dry by saying there were picks made that he wouldn't have. From my seat, I then asked for an example, which he appropriately declined.

by dantesox on Jan 28, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions

Boy, are you a pain in the *ss

;)

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions

One more thought.

Basically, I really like Williams and would give him a "B" grade for his tenure thus far. That said, it is UNBELIEVABLE how much he discloses and at times is WAY TOO chatty....nobody's mentioned this, but at one point yesterday he ADMITTED he gave Iguchi to Gillick after the Garcia trade didn't work out. Now, I think we all pretty much knew this, but does any general manager even think about telling us this at Soxfest, or any other forum, for that matter?

by dantesox on Jan 28, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions

very nice, well done

Most people spend their life avoiding tense situations. Repo man spends his life getting into tense situations.

"Swisher's versatility allows us to give Owens a chance to come back and show he's ready to be that sparkplug like Podsednik was a couple of years ago." - KW

by ChicagoPete on Jan 28, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions

Anyone see the contradiction there?

That OC can be our leadoff hitter, because he fits Ozzie's desire for high OBP?

Cabrera, of the career .321 OBP? Who's .345 OBP last year was the product of him hitting .301, almsot 30 points higher than his career AVG? (.273)

Cabrera could just as easily post a .310 OBP as he could a .340.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 28, 2008 4:41 PM CST up reply actions

I think you guys are misreading Ozzie's comments

He means to say that whomever Kenny ends up getting and whomever he ends up playing is the kind of leadoff guy that he wants. Unless, they lose a lot of games this year. Then, for 2009 they will need a different kind of leadoff man(see Ozzie's comments).

by White Sox Randy on Jan 29, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions

ARDSMA TRADED TO THE BO SOX

For minor league pitchers Willy Mota and Miguel Socolovich.

Toonderstrook's myspace page http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67492521

by Soulja Boy on Jan 28, 2008 1:40 PM CST reply actions

I'll assume you are not just joking.

There are about 30+ posts on this trade on the previous thread.

by Grinder in Training on Jan 28, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions

I like

Willy Mota could end up being really good for us... He throws in the mid 90's but has struggled to develope more pitches. Miguel Socolovich has been doing very well in winter ball. He is not a flame thrower and had TJ surgery in 2005. Since he is from Ven. Ozzie probably knows him and wants him on the team.

Toonderstrook's myspace page http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67492521

by Soulja Boy on Jan 28, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions

re

Miguel Socolovich has been doing very well in winter ball.

like Nick Masset!

by The Wizard on Jan 28, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions

When did that happen?

by The Wizard on Jan 28, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions

like right after garland was traded to the angels

by larry on Jan 28, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions

for all who are worried about the sox selecting

danks of the jordan variety in the draft:

sam (dallas, tx): where do you see jordan danks getting drafted? he seems to be a bit of a disappointement since arriving at texas. do you think he will be better as a pro than he's shown as a collegian? if so, how much better?

Bryan Smith: I have to admit finding the idea of Danks being disappointing as a bit ridiculous. I know he was praised as a five-tool guy, so the power is implied, but how can you argue against too .900+ OPS seasons. How can you argue against his defense in center? Or his 26-for-26 baserunning? Or his fabulous plate discipline. Now I know the power isn't there, but really, is there a better lead-off profile in college baseball? Has there been recently? Can I continue to ask rhetorical questions the rest of the chat?

bryan smith obviously knows a thing or two about college ball. is danks a top ten pick? there's a baseball season to go so who knows.

by larry on Jan 28, 2008 2:03 PM CST reply actions

He misspelled "two"

so the rest of his analysis is suspect.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions

wiz

just to point out, we have low a (kanny) and high a (winston salem). i don't think they'll necessarily both be going to kanny and the article doesn't say they are.

by larry on Jan 28, 2008 2:24 PM CST reply actions

right

suggestions are always welcome!

by The Wizard on Jan 28, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions

Feliz to the Phils

per jayson stark.....
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3219098

SF for Crede?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 28, 2008 3:10 PM CST reply actions

So how soon does the Crede/Giants

domino fall?

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions

It might be a while.

if the Giants are smart, that is. Ken Williams will want to maximize Crede's value, and unless the Giants do something stupid like offer Cain for him, that means waiting until mid-March to ensure that Crede can play.

Otherwise, the Giants have Kevin Frandsen.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions

i'm sure you saw

last week that frandsen is pretty confident he's going to steal durham's job as well.

"On the run from Johnny Law...ain't no trip to Cleveland."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 28, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions

They'll find...

ABs for Frandsen somewhere.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions

larry?

No caps in your future, Toonder?

Studying for the bar must be a beeyatch.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions

lets hope

crede shows hes completely healthy and that Ron Schueler really bugs sabean to acquire him.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 28, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions

How much value do you think Crede has??

I don't think he'll have too much, even if he proves he is healthy in spring training.

He only has 1 year left on his contract and he is a major injury risk. Plus, he is a Boras client - so you know he'll probably opt for FA after the season.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 28, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions

no idea about how much

but if he shows hes healthy, and with schueler talking in sabeans ear, thats probably hes MAX value opportunity.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 28, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

Well, it's pretty obvious that Crede is headed...

to the Giants, sooner or later. The signs all point to it happening -- the Giants need a 3B and Pedro Feliz is no longer an option, Ron Schueler is their Senior Advisor of Player Personnel, and Rowand is probably giving Sabean a fluff-job about Crede.

I would take Noah Lowry for Crede right now, even though he isn't all that special. I wouldn't mind some added pitching depth for our rotation. Lance Broadway might be decent but I sure as hell don't want to have to depend on Nick Masset.

by SSH2005 on Jan 28, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions

he could get flipped for another guy

in the same boat-- somebody with 1 yr left on their current contract--- just like the garland/cabrerra trade.

too bad though-- i really like joe. that shot off the wall in the big a after aj's dropped third strike sneak was a "keeper" moment.

by ruffster on Jan 28, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions

Why the hell would the Sox be interested in...

Crazy Carl? That HAS to be wrong.

Meanwhile, the Mariners have a one-year deal with Brad Wilkerson to play RF, pending the Bedard trade.

by SSH2005 on Jan 28, 2008 3:28 PM CST reply actions

If true, I like it for Seattle

And an all-lefty hitting OF. When was the last time you saw that?

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 3:36 PM CST up reply actions

last year during some a's games?

"On the run from Johnny Law...ain't no trip to Cleveland."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 28, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions

Ibanez, Ichiro, and Wilkerson

probably won't be platooning much - they are legit starters. Still, you may be correct re: "A's".

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions

oh, i know i'm correct.

i knew what you meant, but was just rattling your chain a little bit after the boilers' big victory. why the badgers can't win in mackey is beyond me. when i was growing up we had season tickets and mackey never seemed that tough a place to play.

the a's outfield was just a mess of different lineups, which included some games where three of swisher, buck, cust, kotsay, kielty, and davanon played.

"On the run from Johnny Law...ain't no trip to Cleveland."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 28, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions

Cocky, yet humble

The SF chicks must be eating you up - to say nothing of the fellas...

I MEANT when was the last time there were three legit starters occupying all OF positions that were lefty (is BW a switch-hitter, or southpaw all the way?)?.

And Mackey is a tough place to play - at least against Indiana (we would drive B. Knight nuts - came really close to beating him in '75 and almost spoiled the perfect season).

BTW, are ou a Hoosier from way back, orj ust a Cal City/WAY SSide guy? Your family traveled all the way to Lay-flat, Indiana? You guys must be terrific UW fans, man. I never even went to every game, and I lived there for 5 years.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions

I could see...

the White Sox offering Everett a job to play for Charlotte, a la Ernie Young - it's not like he'd be blocking anyone down there.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions

Great idea to spread his positive

influence/attitude to the kids. Yep, I want him as my clubhouse leader.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions

And if baseball doesn't

work out, he could always land in the Huckabee camp as Chief Advisor on Evolution and Other Pressing Presidential Matters.

by palehose67 on Jan 28, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions

if he's gonna help huckabee

he'd better hurry.

"On the run from Johnny Law...ain't no trip to Cleveland."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 28, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions

Did we trade BA for a bucket of chicken yet??

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 28, 2008 4:12 PM CST reply actions

nope

he's going to Milwaukee with Crede for Hall.

Next time, Bhoov, do some research.

by Chiburb on Jan 28, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply actions

In your wet dreams, maybe.

by SSH2005 on Jan 28, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions

Where do you think Bill Hall will play?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 28, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions

I guess he would play CF

...pending a Konerko trade....

by BoKnows on Jan 28, 2008 5:00 PM CST up reply actions

As the roster is currently constructed...

I'd say he would play 2B. That appears to be the only position, aside from -maybe- the OF, where we don't already have a better player at that position.

Maybe shortstop. His power is really intriguing as a middle infielder. But OCab wasn't brought here to ride the pine.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 28, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions

2B?

that's a latin american position now says ozzie!

by The Wizard on Jan 28, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions

Dammit, Paulie's going nowhere

(Jeez, that sounds negative.)

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 7:21 PM CST up reply actions

I'm gonna go out on a limb

and say 3B for the Brewers

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 28, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions

How's your poker game, Cheat?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 28, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions

you're gonna need a little more than BA

to tack on that deal to get hall. you know, like some real players.

by larry on Jan 28, 2008 5:24 PM CST up reply actions

The more I think about it...

I find it hard to believe that Anderson's getting dealt right now. His trade value is just about zero, and the Sox have an option on him. What do the Sox gain by dumping him for nothing?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions

i'm sure everybody

who was pissed off at how he walked up to the plate and got sick during winter ball would say it's addition by subtraction.

"On the run from Johnny Law...ain't no trip to Cleveland."

by Toonderstrook on Jan 28, 2008 5:29 PM CST up reply actions

but is he going to gain value?

he's just going to be at AAA again (third go around there in four years). even if he hits well there we all know people will say about him. and that option is valuable to another team. trade him now and a team can stash him in the minors, if need be.

also, one should keep in mind that the sox have a history of trading away or otherwise letting go players who have no future with the organization. it's good player policy.

at any rate, no matter what happens, you're just going to get a fringy AAAA type from another team. maybe it will be less now, i don't know. it just doesn't seem like we're talking much change in value if the sox sit on him for a while.

by larry on Jan 28, 2008 5:51 PM CST up reply actions

The problem is...

that the Sox don't have any other outfielders who are anything close to major-league ready, much less anyone who can play center. If someone gets hurt, the team will have zero options.

I understand the idea of trading Brian Anderson to keep him happy, but I don't see that the organization doesn't have room for him.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 6:03 PM CST up reply actions

ramirez and owens

and you know they're fine with ozuna in the outfield, too. that means you have

swisher
dye
quentin
owens
ozuna
ramirez

on the big league club or close at hand. three (er, two in reality) can play center.

anderson is, or at least has played like, the very definition of a replacement level player. if we trade BA and then swisher and (god forbid) jerry all die and ramirez can't play center and ozzie doesn't want to put fields in center, we can trade exactly whatever it was we got for anderson to someone else to get luis terrero or something. having replacement level players around is not really important.

by larry on Jan 28, 2008 6:12 PM CST up reply actions

I guess...

if you think that Anderson's upside is as a replacement-level player, then it doesn't matter. I just think that he's got more talent than that.

I just think the downside of dumping Anderson for a can of Skoal is outweighed by the upside.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions

The point Larry is trying to make I think

And maybe he already made, is that BA wasn't going to make the team as anything more than a 4th outfielder so keeping him around for his potential upside wouldn't matter.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 28, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions

I guess.

It's just depressing to watch this team to compound bad decisions with other bad decisions.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions

I'm curious then...

Would you rather the Sox keep Brian Anderson? Who would you get rid of?

In either case, you aren't caring that BA won't be playing every day at the MLB level, because he won't be playing in front of Swisher, Dye, or Quentin, barring injury. He's blocked.

I think the writing was on the walls once Quentin was acquired. It was certainly there when Swisher was acquired.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 28, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions

yeah

i'm not sure how this is a "bad" decision. he's not better than our projected startes. i think it's highly debatable whether he's better than owens. and if that's where the argument is, i think we know that the decision then is likely a largely irrelevant decision.

by larry on Jan 28, 2008 7:32 PM CST up reply actions

look

i understand that many retain a belief (see wiz) or hope (see most of the rest of us) that BA, if given an opportunity, would be a good enough player. but let's get back to reality here. rightly or wrongly, he's behind every single one of those guys i mentioned in my prior post. and there ain't nothing that's going to change that. i'm sure we'd all like BA to hang around in the the naive hope against hope that maybe a bunch of guys get hurt or the sox realize that owens or whoever isn't necessarily a better player. but that's silly. the sox have already made their decision on where BA is in the pecking order. and it's rather unlikely that the sox lose 3 (or is it 4 with quentin) of the guys who are ahead of him and can arguably play center. keeping him around doesn't do much of anything for the sox and it certainly doesn't do much of anything for BA. there is little to no upside to hanging onto him for another year or whatever. he's worth an AAAA player now and, barring ineptitude, will be worth that in twelve months.

by larry on Jan 28, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions

And I agree totally

End. of. story. Really, give it up, guys. It's over.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Jan 28, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed.

Don't we have some peeps in AAA who can step in if god forbid half our OF's go down?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 28, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions

Well...

Jason Bourgeois played some center field last year.

Maybe Alexei Ramirez will be ready, maybe not.

I guess the team would stumble on without Brian Anderson.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 28, 2008 6:23 PM CST up reply actions

Hmm... more lineups

Since SSH2005 didn't post one, I thought I'd experiment.

LF - Quentin
CF - Swisher
DH - Thome
1B - Konerko
RF - Dye
3B - Fields
SS - Cabrera
C - Pierzynski
2B - Richar

I don't have acess to the 2008 projections, if someone would kindly put up the OBP's, it'd be a neat exercise.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 28, 2008 6:56 PM CST reply actions

Here you go

ZiPS:

.342
.384
.378
.347
.334
.334
.330
.311
.304

I'm pretty sure bhoov has mentioned, however, that the other projection systems are much kinder to our lineup (both in terms of the 'aging' of our older players as well as how well our young guys will play).

by CWSKeith on Jan 28, 2008 8:15 PM CST up reply actions

Wow, that was a pretty good guess on my part

I intentionally tried to arrange the players according to their projected OBP, in order from highest to lowest, with the exception of putting Quentin at the top, because I doubt Ozzie would ever hit Thome or Swisher first. Maybe Swisher. But not Thome.

I kinda like my lineup. I think it's the strongest lineup we could field given our current roster. I'm going to put that lineup into that run projection system. I think I need SLG and OBP, right? Where did ya get those ZiPS numbers?

Also, I think I recall someone saying that ZiPS wasn't kind to our lower part of the lineup.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 28, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions